Companies dropping longer 190+ skis.

Yeah that does suck especially when buying skis that are super rockered you are gonna want the extra length. I used to hate being short but the older I get the better I realize it is, especially being a skier. Ive got a lower center of gravity and can always find skis in the lengths that I need.

**This post was edited on Jul 23rd 2020 at 3:20:04pm

bquick222super rockered

**This post was edited on Jul 23rd 2020 at 3:20:04pm

Perhaps they can just make skis less rockered? There's some middle ground of effective edge + rocker + overall length. Adding more length to increase effective edge with the same rocker will just make the ski super long and awkward for most people.

OP if you want a stiff carving ski buy an FIS spec ski, no way you're going to fold those over.

We've actually been adding longer lengths into the lineup recently.

It definitely can be a struggle to find longer skis, especially on sale but as you say there just is not much of a market for skis over 190 cm. I'm 6' and I know a handful of other skiers who are a similar height but 90% of the people I see out skiing are 5'-5'10". It's definitely easier for me to shred on a ski that's a few inches too short than it is for someone shorter to shred something a few inches too long. Having a 185 instead of a 195 certainly wouldn't make me hold back on anything.
Another aspect is that usually people have more time to ski as kids before they reach their full height and weight. Almost everyone my age works at least 40 hours a week and have all kinds of other responsibilities so they just don't have the time to ski that they did 10 or 15 years ago. This translates to kids going through skis faster, since they can ski every day, while adults who are more likely to need long skis might keep the same pair for 5 years. So the turnover for new skis will naturally trend toward shorter ones, since smaller people need new ones more often.

hot.pocketWe've actually been adding longer lengths into the lineup recently.

Interesting, could you tell some more about the thoughts on the topic? Your lengths are for me pretty much perfect on a lot of ski models, but they are very very rare here to say the least. I''ve been curious about both your commander 98, PB&J and deathwish for a while, but getting a demo or finding someone with them is not easy ;)

anders_aInteresting, could you tell some more about the thoughts on the topic?

We do whatever we want.

anders_aInteresting, could you tell some more about the thoughts on the topic? Your lengths are for me pretty much perfect on a lot of ski models, but they are very very rare here to say the least. I''ve been curious about both your commander 98, PB&J and deathwish for a while, but getting a demo or finding someone with them is not easy ;)

Just kidding. Where are you located at?

We've been making most of our popular models (Deathwish, Wildcat, etc...) in a 190 length for basically forever. Some other long ones from the current lineup are returning designs (Ghost Train 194) or ones that we've added due to demand (Chipotle Banana 193, looking at you TGR).

The Commander series (aside from the 98) all got a 194 length as well. We don't make nearly as many of the 190+ ones as we do all the other lengths, but there are people out there who want that extra bit, so we build them.

Most of the guys at the factory that make lineup decisions are on the taller side, so we usually test new models in a 190 length to start with. It's also just fun to build huge, aggressive skis.

K2 still makes all kinds of ish in 190+ nowadays still. And I hope they do forever.

Long skis truck and short skis suck

BiffbarfK2 still makes all kinds of ish in 190+ nowadays still. And I hope they do forever.

Long skis truck and short skis suck

k2 poacher, 184cm, k2 reckoner 102, 184cm... k2 marksman, 184cm



blister also had concerd about the new reckoner 102, not fitting longer people, and longer people weights.

**This post was edited on Jul 23rd 2020 at 6:15:40pm

anders_ak2 poacher, 184cm, k2 reckoner 102, 184cm... k2 marksman, 184cm



blister also had concerd about the new reckoner 102, not fitting longer people, and longer people weights.

**This post was edited on Jul 23rd 2020 at 6:15:40pm

Here's K2's offering of skis over a 190cm length.

Reckoner 122: 191
Reckoner 112: 191
Mindbender 116C: 193
Mindbender 108Ti: 193
Mindbender 99Ti: 191

bradwaltersHere's K2's offering of skis over a 190cm length.

Reckoner 122: 191
Reckoner 112: 191
Mindbender 116C: 193
Mindbender 108Ti: 193
Mindbender 99Ti: 191

Can't forget the catamarans in 191, but idk if sold in 2021 or not.

But yeah of course not all their skis come in 190+.

I'm definitely going to have to check out the Commanders. Everything I have heard about them is sweet. I've got a pair of 196cm blizzard bodacious that are starting to show their age and need replaced

hot.pocketJust kidding. Where are you located at?

We've been making most of our popular models (Deathwish, Wildcat, etc...) in a 190 length for basically forever. Some other long ones from the current lineup are returning designs (Ghost Train 194) or ones that we've added due to demand (Chipotle Banana 193, looking at you TGR).

The Commander series (aside from the 98) all got a 194 length as well. We don't make nearly as many of the 190+ ones as we do all the other lengths, but there are people out there who want that extra bit, so we build them.

Most of the guys at the factory that make lineup decisions are on the taller side, so we usually test new models in a 190 length to start with. It's also just fun to build huge, aggressive skis.

Ye thank god, companies putting early rise in their skis but not adjusting for effectuve edge length had me pissed off for years.

I like skiing long skis and short skis, short skis to learn on, long skis to look good.

6'3" checking in, agree. Still lots of older stuff out there in big sizes for cheap, just gotta poke around. Scored a pair of 189 shreditor 112s right before covid hit, and actually just picked up a pair of 190 sir francis bacons from 2015 that i am super stoked on

Ive got a homie out of sunapee known by the handle erectile chrisfunction that skis Icelantic nomad 95s but only rides the 190+. Some people dig em for the sidecut, stability etc especially on heavily rocketed skis. Like if Vishnu made a 188 id be riding those in a heartbeat

**This post was edited on Jul 24th 2020 at 12:02:19am

anders_aAre tall'ish people shitty at skiing and afraid of longer skis?

Alex Hall and Bobby Brown would beg to differ

Dude absolutely shreds bridger would be a sick match for whatever flow program exists at Moment

amccahill93I'm definitely going to have to check out the Commanders. Everything I have heard about them is sweet. I've got a pair of 196cm blizzard bodacious that are starting to show their age and need replaced

DesertStixDude absolutely shreds bridger would be a sick match for whatever flow program exists at Moment

He skis like some of the moment guys too. Thinking of like a bridger version of Tyler curle and Chris whatford mixed together

BigPurpleSkiSuit

hot.pocketJust kidding. Where are you located at?

Most of the guys at the factory that make lineup decisions are on the taller side, so we usually test new models in a 190 length to start with. It's also just fun to build huge, aggressive skis.

Norway!

Yay for tall people working there! :D They know the struggle.

Its good to hear your testing 190s, some skis are just different skis in different lengths, it goes both ways of course, but I feel like the 19x are often just an addon, and not really tested, allthough there seems to be more focus on this later years.



Surprisingly like 50% of my ski buddies are taller than me! one of my ski buddies is 206cm, he makes 194-195 skis seem so tiny when he's all kitted up with boots & helmet.

it wierd that especially park skis are becoming softer and more rockery and then companies drop the bigger sizes.
I skied candide 2s at 178 but had to get another pair at 188 even though they are 10cm taller than me cause the shorter ones are just too unstable land anything even a touch off the perfect balance.
I'm all in for jibby soft ski with lots of rocker to surf around, but that demands a size or two longer skis to get the balance

@6.2. my shortest skis is a 178. For teaching kids. And 193 is my longest. I like a 185-188 for myself. And I go wider to make up length

I’m 6’1 200-220 and my shortest skis are my chronics for park @ 178, they’re great in the park long as shit doesn’t get soft, other than that I’m uncomfortable on them. Longest would be Corvus at 193.

A lot of skis still in the 190+
-Folsom custom makes 190+ and 205
-revolt 121
-bent Chetler 120
-Dynastar m free
-21 b ops sender squad 112 (excited about this Shape and construction but the top sheet is f in dogshit thx Rossignol )
-mindbenders
-enforcers
-mantra
-blizzard spur and bodacious
-moments got loads of 190+
-dps has a few
- anima and others by black crows
-Wagner

and more, there’s still lots of 190+ options

SavageBiffI’m 6’1 200-220 and my shortest skis are my chronics for park @ 178, they’re great in the park long as shit doesn’t get soft, other than that I’m uncomfortable on them. Longest would be Corvus at 193.

A lot of skis still in the 190+


and more, there’s still lots of 190+ options

Why the 178 chronic over 185 for you? and doesnt it feel tiny? I KNOW you can flex that prettty hard at 200-220! I have the 185, and I will give that its actually a fairly long 185, and I do find it superfun for lowspeed butters (225-230lbs) landing backseat on it is punishing for sure, but hey still love it. Picked it up because of line_engineer guys post here about it, 5-6 days on it so far only though.

Guessing the chronic is for us, like the blend is for the lighter smaller guys.


I own some skis on that list, and you are correct there are still quite a few beeing made,

To adress the enforcers in 193cm is a total joke(except for 115) they are redoing lengths for 2021, and cutting the 193, think new max is 191? honestly the 193 were weak and just extended versions, they would go floppety, and just fold when you pushed them (both shovels and tails) and skiing 185,186,193 misc models against each other, I felt the 185/186 models were what they actually tried during development. I always laugh when I read reviews on enforcers saying they are so stiff and chargy with two layers of metal, like wowie. This is when you really realize how different the same ski can be for different people. For me they are a fun ski in the woods when you have to do some laps on the groomers as well. I've pretty much sold every pair I had except the 88 and 110, and I'm only keeping the 110.

bent chetlers are 192, but the rocker and lightness makes them feel not so big, happy this ski exists, with the forward mount point, you really need the length though.

mantra in misc versions, including the new mantra 102, in 191cm is probably the burliest ski on there, maybe except for bodacious, If anyone here hasnt been on mantra 102, try, Its chargyyyyyyyyyyyy, and lets you hit 70mph+ through everything. I like the 102 better than m5 and my older ones. The lack of rocker, and taper make it ski LONG, but the "3d radius marketing blabla" makes it super manageble and you can shut down speed if you need to. I used to telemark a lot on mantras back when I was younger.

black crows as a eurobrand is indeed good at long skis for the freeride stuff, but when you look at freestyle like camox, the 187 camox, is shorter than a 185 chronic, (but way stiffer) The new justis is promising, currently only own camox/atris. I have to say the atris is for me perfect length, so props to black crows.


The mindbender series gets alot of rage/good reviews, but having a lot of skis, I feel it overlaps and doesnt quite make sense for me. Dadskis anyone? ;)


armada also still makes a few 190+, but there is so much rocker in them the actual surface isnt that much, and they ski short (have not tried the FWT declivety X, guessing thats a beast)


Fischer has been good for bigboys, with the 102 FR in 191cm, such a slept on ski.
Revolt 121 is orderd in 191cm should arrive august.


I think this also boils down to that you get few burly long "narrow" freeride/freestyle/fun skis, at 110+ you get more options, but at

Happy to see others are also thinking about this topic, not just me! :D I also feel I buy enough new skis every season alone to keep mfg's pumping em out.! Funny enough when I sell skis 2nd hand 95% of the people contacting me are worried the skis are to big for them, then the last 5% is that guy just BOOM tall skis truck I want it.



Looking at this list, I hope 2021 brings me some moment skis as well.

**This post was edited on Jul 24th 2020 at 3:04:17pm

I know it's not 190, but the 189 hotshot looks like it's going to be a playful beast of a ski

>190 cm + >18 DIN = big pp energy.

anders_aI think this also boils down to that you get few burly long "narrow" freeride/freestyle/fun skis, at 110+ you get more options, but at

it looks like it cut off here, you might have used a "less than" or "more than" symbol and those mess things up on here somehow sometimes

you are correct sir, was writing that at less than 100mm there were few options, like black ops 98 192cm, but at 110mm or more options open up, cant really remember now :D

anders_aWhy the 178 chronic over 185 for you? and doesnt it feel tiny? I KNOW you can flex that prettty hard at 200-220! I have the 185, and I will give that its actually a fairly long 185, and I do find it superfun for lowspeed butters (225-230lbs) landing backseat on it is punishing for sure, but hey still love it. Picked it up because of line_engineer guys post here about it, 5-6 days on it so far only though.

Guessing the chronic is for us, like the blend is for the lighter smaller guys.


I own some skis on that list, and you are correct there are still quite a few beeing made,

To adress the enforcers in 193cm is a total joke(except for 115) they are redoing lengths for 2021, and cutting the 193, think new max is 191? honestly the 193 were weak and just extended versions, they would go floppety, and just fold when you pushed them (both shovels and tails) and skiing 185,186,193 misc models against each other, I felt the 185/186 models were what they actually tried during development. I always laugh when I read reviews on enforcers saying they are so stiff and chargy with two layers of metal, like wowie. This is when you really realize how different the same ski can be for different people. For me they are a fun ski in the woods when you have to do some laps on the groomers as well. I've pretty much sold every pair I had except the 88 and 110, and I'm only keeping the 110.

bent chetlers are 192, but the rocker and lightness makes them feel not so big, happy this ski exists, with the forward mount point, you really need the length though.

mantra in misc versions, including the new mantra 102, in 191cm is probably the burliest ski on there, maybe except for bodacious, If anyone here hasnt been on mantra 102, try, Its chargyyyyyyyyyyyy, and lets you hit 70mph+ through everything. I like the 102 better than m5 and my older ones. The lack of rocker, and taper make it ski LONG, but the "3d radius marketing blabla" makes it super manageble and you can shut down speed if you need to. I used to telemark a lot on mantras back when I was younger.

black crows as a eurobrand is indeed good at long skis for the freeride stuff, but when you look at freestyle like camox, the 187 camox, is shorter than a 185 chronic, (but way stiffer) The new justis is promising, currently only own camox/atris. I have to say the atris is for me perfect length, so props to black crows.


The mindbender series gets alot of rage/good reviews, but having a lot of skis, I feel it overlaps and doesnt quite make sense for me. Dadskis anyone? ;)


armada also still makes a few 190+, but there is so much rocker in them the actual surface isnt that much, and they ski short (have not tried the FWT declivety X, guessing thats a beast)


Fischer has been good for bigboys, with the 102 FR in 191cm, such a slept on ski.
Revolt 121 is orderd in 191cm should arrive august.


I think this also boils down to that you get few burly long "narrow" freeride/freestyle/fun skis, at 110+ you get more options, but at

Happy to see others are also thinking about this topic, not just me! :D I also feel I buy enough new skis every season alone to keep mfg's pumping em out.! Funny enough when I sell skis 2nd hand 95% of the people contacting me are worried the skis are to big for them, then the last 5% is that guy just BOOM tall skis truck I want it.



Looking at this list, I hope 2021 brings me some moment skis as well.

**This post was edited on Jul 24th 2020 at 3:04:17pm

The 178 chronics bc my local shop didn’t have the 185 in stock , and they were the first ski I’d bought after a ski break for a few years, mine are the 2018 with orange base, their flex is great for supportive butters
Can agree how rockered skis typically ski short and measure short with the exception of On3p and maybe a few others, especially with early rise in the tail with a lot of splay
Just saw as of today moments sight is transitioning , can’t wait to see what they bring, only problem is I think my quivers need is fullfilled all that’s left is want and the addiction of buying Gotta say again, really disappointed in the b ops squad top sheet

BiffbarfCan't forget the catamarans in 191, but idk if sold in 2021 or not.

But yeah of course not all their skis come in 190+.

Very true. But those have been replaced by the Reckoner 122. If you can find a pair or 191 Cats before they're all gone, I do highly recommend them though!

I will never need an 18 DIN binding, pivot 15s look perfect, in gold and forza. I think these 2020 pivots will be the best ones for some time

SlyFoxxx>190 cm + >18 DIN = big pp energy.

Rip Sasquatch Skiers

We all know that when parabolic skis became the norm, the length of skis came way down. This is fine for someone who is riding a directional ski with a traditional mounting location.



However, with the advent of twin tips and more center-mounted orientation, the industry was slow to realize that the length needed to increase as well. If you suddenly push your binding forward 15cm, you need to increase the length of ski to have a long enough tip/shovel to be useful and stable. In that case, only the tail of the ski is really growing, as the tip length might be fairly close to what it was on your shorter, rear-mounted skis.

As such, I always size up as much as I can. I am about 5' 5.5" and ride 194 pow skis, 182-189 all mountain skis and 178-185 park skis. My tips aren't significantly longer than some 6' 3" skier on directional skis but my tail is huge in comparison.

bennwithtwonsAs such, I always size up as much as I can. I am about 5' 5.5" and ride 194 pow skis, 182-189 all mountain skis and 178-185 park skis. My tips aren't significantly longer than some 6' 3" skier on directional skis but my tail is huge in comparison.

Jesus christ dude. Not hating at all but for me to have the same ski/height ratio for pow skis I'd need 237's. I literally couldn't even imagine lugging that big of a ski around

BigPurpleSkiSuitI will never need an 18 DIN binding, pivot 15s look perfect, in gold and forza. I think these 2020 pivots will be the best ones for some time

Yeah me either man. I only weigh 165 lbs. I just got the gold Pivot 15's for my Goats and they are siiiick..

I'd be down for some 190+ cm 120+ mm pow sticks though.

That's impressive you're managing a 194 at 5 ft 5

bennwithtwonsWe all know that when parabolic skis became the norm, the length of skis came way down. This is fine for someone who is riding a directional ski with a traditional mounting location.



However, with the advent of twin tips and more center-mounted orientation, the industry was slow to realize that the length needed to increase as well. If you suddenly push your binding forward 15cm, you need to increase the length of ski to have a long enough tip/shovel to be useful and stable. In that case, only the tail of the ski is really growing, as the tip length might be fairly close to what it was on your shorter, rear-mounted skis.

As such, I always size up as much as I can. I am about 5' 5.5" and ride 194 pow skis, 182-189 all mountain skis and 178-185 park skis. My tips aren't significantly longer than some 6' 3" skier on directional skis but my tail is huge in comparison.

My girl rides 170 with a traditional mount and our boot center to tip dimensions is very close. I just gain all that length in the tail because mine are mounted much farther forward. We need to rethink ski sizes for twin tips, as the intended use, and therefore mounting location, is very different from the norm.

BigPurpleSkiSuitThat's impressive you're managing a 194 at 5 ft 5

If you read Blister's review on the 194 Devastators then it's obvious that they are a niche ski. They are extremely heavy, wide, and also fully rockered. And obviously they don't sell well. I don't blame 4Frnt

I’m 6’2” and this has always been a problem for me. I skied the shreditor 102 in the 192 length for years but stopped being able to find them a few years after k2 cut off production. I tried the Bentchetler 100 at 188 cm but they felt too short and just didn’t have that long noodly feeling I like. Last year I got the Prodigy 3.0 at 192 cm and they’ve been great. A little wider than my old shreditors but they do the trick

I definitely think the Tracer 118 195 should be in this conversation, an excellent ski for people that dig a lot of running length. It's a ski that I'm pumped to have in my quiver and use often. It's an obvious choice for bigger people but definitely a good choice for anyone that likes a bigger stick too, because it's not punishing in this length at all, smooth and damp with a very manageable weight both overall and swing.
The Declivity X 192 is also a rock solid 190+ stick with minimal tail rocker and lots of effective edge.

When you see a short guy, often skinny, on LONG skis, you know hes awesome, 10 out of 10 times, you want him as a ski buddy.



I don't blame 4frnt at all, but I do wish the 194 > 186, would be more 194 > 189-190? at 186 there is a 0 chance of me buying that ski, unless it measures way long, and 4frnt dont usually do. But I do see the business aspect of it, staying a float and profitable, is more important than niche, but with the name "devastator" you expect certain things. Like not to have the ski tip at eye height with boots on.



Just picked up new k2 catamarans 191cm locally, Looking at them here next to my devestator 194's and they seem to measure out to same to same height ish. Honestly I find ski lengths to be super confusing and inconsistant. I do love blister/ns for actual measurments in their reviews.



The point with center mounting, shovel length vs binding etc is a good analasys of it.

That's a really good point, I think Kitten Factory had the right idea with what they made, but not many others seemed to follow suit with longer skis and progressive mount points. Maybe they haven't made that because it definitely takes a very good skier to ride a longer ski at that height. I imagine the equivalent for me would be riding a 215 or 220 twin tip at 6'4 which seems absurd to me. It would be cool to try it though!

bennwithtwonsMy girl rides 170 with a traditional mount and our boot center to tip dimensions is very close. I just gain all that length in the tail because mine are mounted much farther forward. We need to rethink ski sizes for twin tips, as the intended use, and therefore mounting location, is very different from the norm.

anders_aWhen you see a short guy, often skinny, on LONG skis, you know hes awesome, 10 out of 10 times, you want him as a ski buddy.

I have the Armada ARV116 in a 192 as well as the Dynastar M free 108 in a 192. The m feee charges, the arv handles the dumb deep days

anders_ayou are correct sir, was writing that at less than 100mm there were few options, like black ops 98 192cm, but at 110mm or more options open up, cant really remember now :D

has anyone here skied the black ops 98 in 192

Yeah I bet you’d find it easier than you think. It never enters my mind while skiing that my skis are particularly big. We’re also talking about a 170-141-156 (if my memory is good) ski, so by no means a narrow one!

BigPurpleSkiSuitThat's a really good point, I think Kitten Factory had the right idea with what they made, but not many others seemed to follow suit with longer skis and progressive mount points. Maybe they haven't made that because it definitely takes a very good skier to ride a longer ski at that height. I imagine the equivalent for me would be riding a 215 or 220 twin tip at 6'4 which seems absurd to me. It would be cool to try it though!

BigPurpleSkiSuitThat's a really good point, I think Kitten Factory had the right idea with what they made, but not many others seemed to follow suit with longer skis and progressive mount points. Maybe they haven't made that because it definitely takes a very good skier to ride a longer ski at that height. I imagine the equivalent for me would be riding a 215 or 220 twin tip at 6'4 which seems absurd to me. It would be cool to try it though!

Considering a 5'5.5" is 79% the height of a 194cm ski, you'd need a 244cmm ski to be 79% as tall as your height at 6'4" lmao


Edit math iz hard

**This post was edited on Jul 25th 2020 at 10:23:20pm

I would like to see this

BiffbarfConsidering a 5'5.5" is 79% the height of a 194cm ski, you'd need a 244cmm ski to be 79% as tall as your height at 6'4" lmao


Edit math iz hard

**This post was edited on Jul 25th 2020 at 10:23:20pm

God damnit I fucked the numbers way up.

5'5.5" = 65.5 inch x 2.54 = 166.37cm

166.37/194=0.8575 =85.75% height.

6'4" is 85.75% of a 225 cm ski.

I was way off. I'm not drunk or anything, just obviously retarded.