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The End of Summer Skiing in Whistler?

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Dstan
Posts: 138 - Karma: 1,109
Level 1 just posted that the Hortsman T-bar has been removed, but I can’t find any press release or any other source of info about it. Does anyone know anything more? Is summer skiing in whistler done for good?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCj_fHmnS3C/?igshid=1gs0v9pe9xbmm
Jul 12 2020 9:23PM
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tiger_shart
Posts: 510 - Karma: 1,592
damn, heartbreaking. Got my first laps on it last summer. Was stoked to go back this year, but obviously that didn't happen. What a legendary place.
Jul 12 2020 9:34PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5235 - Karma: 20,715
don't know much about whistler but isn't there a second t-bar up there?
Jul 12 2020 9:46PM
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Dstan
Posts: 138 - Karma: 1,109
There is another one up there, the Showcase T-Bar, but the Hortsman T-Bar is required to access it. A few years ago, Whistler Balckcomb has to move Showcase from the side of the slope to the middle of the slope because the glacier was receding.
a_burgerdon't know much about whistler but isn't there a second t-bar up there?
Jul 12 2020 9:53PM
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12506 - Karma: 116,130
was bound to happen eventually. I think everyone was saying the time to shut down the glacier has come
Jul 13 2020 2:58AM
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P3t3r
Posts: 1795 - Karma: 5,554
The top quarter of the t-bar was not used for several seasons in a row and kids had to hike out.

Curious to hear if they actually took it out permanently or they are simply moving it (like they did the other t-bar on the glacier). The fact that there was no press leads me to believe the latter. However they are owned by Vail so who knows.
Jul 13 2020 10:15AM
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11988 - Karma: 12,261
wow i'm surprised there isn't more discussion on this, although i guess the forums are dying and it is summer..

i don't think this is the end of glacier skiing in whis. they make too much off of renting out the lanes for momentum and other race groups. they also added in snowmaking equipment on the glacier a few years ago to top up the melt over the winter. not to mention all the money guests spend on hotel rooms, food and merchandise in the village who are also there to ski. neither vail, whistler or momentum has said anything about it and i think they would be obliged to do so being the only other lift accessible summer skiing in north America aside from beartooth pass and hood. but then again COC did just cancel their program out of nowhere when they shut down so i could be wrong.

a friend of mine heard some rumours two seasons ago that it was the last summer for the glacier and that momentum was going to try and move it's operations to Valemount's new resort (has barely started construction.) he's also the type of guy to spread a lot of bullshit so i doubt that's true but i still like to hope so since it'll be a 5 hour shorter drive for me.

regardless of what will happen it's a sad day for skiing. lot's of memories, first tricks and friends were made lapping that t-bar.

**This post was edited on Jul 14th 2020 at 1:34:52am
Jul 13 2020 7:34PM
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WoFlowz
Posts: 7902 - Karma: 63,944
I mean it is vail resorts and assets so they might just be replacing it with a six pack and even more expensive lift tickets
Jul 13 2020 7:54PM
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GilsonSkis
Posts: 738 - Karma: 9,715
Rip. Time to start building the snow domes
Jul 13 2020 9:36PM
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cheerio
Posts: 1032 - Karma: 3,415
Very sad news, never skied there in the summer, but definitely saw the impacts when I was there in January 2017 and 2019

First got introduced to the whole glacier receeding idea maybe 5 years ago when I heard a podcast about it. Pretty sure it was LPP. Obviously it started much before 5 years ago but things seemed to have progressed much faster in recent years. I think they planned on rebuilding the glacier in the wintertime but I guess that didnt work out.

Wonder if Hood and European summer skiing resorts are in their last years as well?

Also what level of impact salt used in summer parks would have on glaciers melting
Jul 13 2020 10:38PM
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tyurlich
Posts: 4 - Karma: 35
This definitely sucks.
cheerioVery sad news, never skied there in the summer, but definitely saw the impacts when I was there in January 2017 and 2019

First got introduced to the whole glacier receeding idea maybe 5 years ago when I heard a podcast about it. Pretty sure it was LPP. Obviously it started much before 5 years ago but things seemed to have progressed much faster in recent years. I think they planned on rebuilding the glacier in the wintertime but I guess that didnt work out.

Wonder if Hood and European summer skiing resorts are in their last years as well?

Also what level of impact salt used in summer parks would have on glaciers melting


I actually think I know the answer to that. Pretty sure that the actual melting of the glacier isn't directly related to the application of salt itself but more due to the general use of the glacier for ski operations, that being said, salt does cause adverse effects to the sources of regional drinking water and also has negative effects on regional biodiversity because of the heightened chloride levels that appear in downstream runoff. There was a study done on the downstream effects by Teichrob at the University of British Columbia in 2010 & there's probably some more info you could search up
Jul 13 2020 11:00PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5977 - Karma: 3,545
.Dadwow i'm surprised there isn't more discussion on this, although i guess the forums are dying and it is summer..

i don't think this is the end of glacier skiing in whis. they make too much off of renting out the lanes for momentum and other race groups. they also added in snowmaking equipment on the glacier a few years ago to top up the melt over the winter. not to mention all the money guests spend on hotel rooms, food and merchandise in the village who are also there to ski. neither vail, whistler or momentum has said anything about it and i think they would be obliged to do so being the only other lift accessible summer skiing in north America aside from beartooth pass and hood. but then again COC did just cancel their program out of nowhere when they shut down so i could be wrong.

a friend of mine heard some rumours two seasons ago that it was the last summer for the glacier and that momentum was going to try and move it's operations to Vernon's new resort (has barely started construction.) he's also the type of guy to spread a lot of bullshit so i doubt that's true but i still like to hope so since it'll be a 5 hour shorter drive for me.

regardless of what will happen it's a sad day for skiing. lot's of memories, first tricks and friends were made lapping that t-bar.


When did Vernon get a new resort? Never heard of this.
Jul 14 2020 1:15AM
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11988 - Karma: 12,261
hemlockjibber8When did Vernon get a new resort? Never heard of this.


sorry i meant Valemount. i'll edit my original post.
Jul 14 2020 1:34AM
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12506 - Karma: 116,130
.Dadsorry i meant Valemount. i'll edit my original post.


Isnt the Oberti family behind valemount as well? We've all seen how much "progress" they made on their previous crystal mtn resort
Jul 14 2020 1:37AM
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11988 - Karma: 12,261
TRVP_ANGELIsnt the Oberti family behind valemount as well? We've all seen how much "progress" they made on their previous crystal mtn resort


it is yes. i think they had some part in jumbo glacier too which got nowhere fast.
Jul 14 2020 1:42AM
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bueno
Posts: 721 - Karma: 4,488
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/968165/IMG-3607-MOV
Video filmed yesterday. Sad site to see the t-bar gone. It's pretty clear that every year there is significantly less snow up there than the previous year so I wouldn't be surprised if summer Horstman glacier skiing is a thing of the past. Losing the t-bar on top of the lack of snow just seems like the last straw to throw in the towel

Edit: no sign of any of the t-bar parts up there so i don't think they're moving it elsewhere but who knows

**This post was edited on Jul 14th 2020 at 4:34:35pm
Jul 14 2020 4:31PM
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freestyler540
Posts: 13083 - Karma: 18,725
T bars are dying in general. Seems like ski resorts are more interested in chairlifts now.
Too bad, I love riding T bars
Jul 15 2020 12:25AM
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knert
Posts: 77 - Karma: 342
momentum still going just going to be s new way to the glacier
Jul 15 2020 3:24AM
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tnabe
Posts: 280 - Karma: 448
There seems to be some confusion about which t-bar was removed. The lift that services the Blackcomb Glacier, Momentum and allows access to the Blackcomb backcountry still remains.

The Hortsman t-bar used to service Camp of Champs and connected the top of Glacier Chair to the other side of the ridge to the top of 7th Heaven.

The Hortsman t-bar hasn't been running for almost 2 seasons now and it's removal won't change anything that hasn't already been the case since 2018.
Jul 15 2020 3:31AM
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12506 - Karma: 116,130
tnabeThere seems to be some confusion about which t-bar was removed. The lift that services the Blackcomb Glacier, Momentum and allows access to the Blackcomb backcountry still remains.

The Hortsman t-bar used to service Camp of Champs and connected the top of Glacier Chair to the other side of the ridge to the top of 7th Heaven.

The Hortsman t-bar hasn't been running for almost 2 seasons now and it's removal won't change anything that hasn't already been the case since 2018.


its used to get back to top of 7th in the summer and was operational last summer. Momentum announced that access will now be via glacier express lift starting next season. Only question is, will there be public park?

**This post was edited on Jul 15th 2020 at 3:51:39am
Jul 15 2020 3:50AM
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Slunky
Posts: 689 - Karma: 2,319
They should just cancel all summertime glacier operations. The glacier is getting noticeably lower and lower every year, and its not worth destroying it to build a half assed public park and let a few rich kids and pros ski at camp for a few weeks
Jul 20 2020 2:08PM
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Craigskis
Posts: 6650 - Karma: 1,645
TRVP_ANGELits used to get back to top of 7th in the summer and was operational last summer. Momentum announced that access will now be via glacier express lift starting next season. Only question is, will there be public park?

**This post was edited on Jul 15th 2020 at 3:51:39am


Glacier express would mean having to download from Jersey Cream after catching a lift up Solar, it cuts out the bus ride mind you.
Jul 20 2020 9:47PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
In Whistler's master plan, they were going to eventually replace the T-bars with a gondola.

That doesn't mean that summer skiing will still be a thing up there, though. That glacier is going FAST.
Jul 20 2020 9:47PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
It’s been almost 15 years since I was on the glacier in the summer. Even then you could tell the difference over the previous 5 years. When the free skiing summer camps (CoC and High North) really started in the late 90s and early ‘00s you could ski until August. By 2005 it was over by mid July.

great memories though. High North was the shit.
Jul 23 2020 8:09AM
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twinkle_toes
Posts: 812 - Karma: 9,665
Sep 7 2021 8:33AM
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sheddd
Posts: 115 - Karma: 493
:(
Sep 8 2021 7:32PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
twinkle_toes


It's also september?
Sep 8 2021 8:03PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9790 - Karma: 72,411
Obviously this is 99% global warming but have y'all ever considered that skiing contributes to glacial melt? Thinking about it if a mass of snow is left to melt on its own, it will take much longer than if it is being continuously chopped up and turned over. When you ski, you push the snow around and create more surface area that's exposed to the air. You are also mixing snow from the surface with snow below the surface and changing the temperature gradient, which accelerates melt.

Likely minimal but just a thought.
Sep 8 2021 8:26PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
HypeBeastObviously this is 99% global warming but have y'all ever considered that skiing contributes to glacial melt? Thinking about it if a mass of snow is left to melt on its own, it will take much longer than if it is being continuously chopped up and turned over. When you ski, you push the snow around and create more surface area that's exposed to the air. You are also mixing snow from the surface with snow below the surface and changing the temperature gradient, which accelerates melt.

Likely minimal but just a thought.


Nobody skied the glacier for two summers now so that's sort of irrelevant to the current situation on the glacier.
Sep 8 2021 8:54PM
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3mania
Posts: 2613 - Karma: 10,361
Sad, so many good times up there. Any update on that Valemount glacier ski place?
Sep 8 2021 9:01PM
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Notaskibum
Posts: 849 - Karma: 4,007
HypeBeastObviously this is 99% global warming but have y'all ever considered that skiing contributes to glacial melt? Thinking about it if a mass of snow is left to melt on its own, it will take much longer than if it is being continuously chopped up and turned over. When you ski, you push the snow around and create more surface area that's exposed to the air. You are also mixing snow from the surface with snow below the surface and changing the temperature gradient, which accelerates melt.

Likely minimal but just a thought.


Don't quote me on this but grooming / skiing actually makes the snow last longer by compacting it or whatever
Sep 8 2021 9:10PM
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Paul.
Posts: 1599 - Karma: 11,101
eheathIt's also september?

Do you know what a glacier is?

eheathNobody skied the glacier for two summers now so that's sort of irrelevant to the current situation on the glacier.

Discussing potential contributing factors to the deterioration of the Horstman glacier isn’t relevant to a thread about the deterioration of the Horstman glacier?
Sep 8 2021 9:13PM
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jps2.0
Posts: 474 - Karma: 2,391
NotaskibumDon't quote me on this but grooming / skiing actually makes the snow last longer by compacting it or whatever


i think having groomers would impact the glacier melt, but i have also heard skiing can reduce glaciers/snow melt
Sep 8 2021 9:14PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
Paul.Do you know what a glacier is?


Discussing potential contributing factors to the deterioration of the Horstman glacier isn’t relevant to a thread about the deterioration of the Horstman glacier?


Clearly I hit a heart string, nothing has been posted ina year and the photo of it right now seems to be the most revilvent part of this thread.

Skiing has effects on the environment, snow is literally melting when you ski down it, seems a bit arbitrary to discuss it, no?
Sep 8 2021 9:36PM
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WoFlowz
Posts: 7902 - Karma: 63,944
jps2.0i think having groomers would impact the glacier melt, but i have also heard skiing can reduce glaciers/snow melt


Yeah usually groomers will keep the dirt and dusk from accumulating on the top of the now/ice and actually keeps it from melting as fast as it would be covered in say ash, dust, dirt, gravel etc
Sep 8 2021 10:05PM
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9353 - Karma: 68,324
looking at this, that is definitely pretty sad.
Sep 8 2021 10:10PM
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eheath
Posts: 61603 - Karma: 123,089
WoFlowzYeah usually groomers will keep the dirt and dusk from accumulating on the top of the now/ice and actually keeps it from melting as fast as it would be covered in say ash, dust, dirt, gravel etc


This is also true, the white surface absorbs less heat than dirt/rocks/etc
Sep 8 2021 10:13PM
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EvanMeyer
Posts: 3822 - Karma: 3,449
Palmer on hood is next, no way in hell it lasts a couple more seasons if we continue To have low snow years and brutally hot summers here in Oregon.
Sep 12 2021 11:52AM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9790 - Karma: 72,411
EvanMeyerPalmer on hood is next, no way in hell it lasts a couple more seasons if we continue To have low snow years and brutally hot summers here in Oregon.


Have faith in la Nina little one
Sep 13 2021 3:12PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51645 - Karma: 162,278
HypeBeastObviously this is 99% global warming but have y'all ever considered that skiing contributes to glacial melt? Thinking about it if a mass of snow is left to melt on its own, it will take much longer than if it is being continuously chopped up and turned over. When you ski, you push the snow around and create more surface area that's exposed to the air. You are also mixing snow from the surface with snow below the surface and changing the temperature gradient, which accelerates melt.

Likely minimal but just a thought.


Idk what it would be for a glacier and summer, but machines packing the snow down can actually prolong the snow life for a normal mountain. Even skiing packing it down. The same way if you walk down the side walk in a snow storm and ir doesnt get shoveled the footprints may take a longer time to melt because the snow is compressed and more solid.

Also as far as thread, that sucks. Hood looks pretty bleak right now too :(
Sep 13 2021 4:13PM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6394 - Karma: 69,421
jps2.0i think having groomers would impact the glacier melt, but i have also heard skiing can reduce glaciers/snow melt


eheathClearly I hit a heart string, nothing has been posted ina year and the photo of it right now seems to be the most revilvent part of this thread.

Skiing has effects on the environment, snow is literally melting when you ski down it, seems a bit arbitrary to discuss it, no?


Yeah grooming the snow definitely helps it because the cats don't depend on snow melting to operate. They also can plan where snow needs to be moved/packed accordingly.
Like eheath said, skis literally slide on a tiny layer of melted water and no skier is thinking about where they're moving the snow around to in the middle of a turn or slash.
Also, groomers usually operate at night or morning when it's colder out. When hundreds of people are turning the snow over in the middle of the day when it's sunny and 50 degrees, lots more gets exposed/melted.
Sep 13 2021 5:46PM
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3mania
Posts: 2613 - Karma: 10,361
1000's of lbs. of salt?
Sep 13 2021 5:57PM
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6394 - Karma: 69,421
3mania1000's of lbs. of salt?

Mfw people respond to climate change events with more environmentally harmful actions :(
Sep 13 2021 6:02PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51645 - Karma: 162,278
3mania1000's of lbs. of salt?

I don't even want my brain to try and process the amount of salt that gets used. Somewhere between 1, 40 pound bag and a trillion billion gazillion pounds a day.

I know it's the only way to make it work, and they monitor it, but it's gotta have some impact for sure.
Sep 13 2021 6:40PM
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EvanMeyer
Posts: 3822 - Karma: 3,449
HypeBeastHave faith in la Nina little one


Technically the La Niña cycle was last season but from forecast predications I have seen it could potentially reemerge this fall and into winter. I’ve got my fingers crossed but have also seen predictions of a cold dry winter so we’ll see. Bachelor didn’t even hit its average last year we were about 40” under and I think hood may have just barely hit theirs.
Sep 13 2021 11:04PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9790 - Karma: 72,411
EvanMeyerTechnically the La Niña cycle was last season but from forecast predications I have seen it could potentially reemerge this fall and into winter. I’ve got my fingers crossed but have also seen predictions of a cold dry winter so we’ll see. Bachelor didn’t even hit its average last year we were about 40” under and I think hood may have just barely hit theirs.


Last forecast I saw was this is another la Niña this year at 70-80% probability by the NOAA.
Sep 14 2021 10:42PM
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