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theabortionator
April, 2025

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The End of Summer Skiing in Whistler?

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Dstan
Posts: 138 - Karma: 1,109
Level 1 just posted that the Hortsman T-bar has been removed, but I can’t find any press release or any other source of info about it. Does anyone know anything more? Is summer skiing in whistler done for good?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCj_fHmnS3C/?igshid=1gs0v9pe9xbmm
5 years ago
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tiger_shart
Posts: 512 - Karma: 1,602
damn, heartbreaking. Got my first laps on it last summer. Was stoked to go back this year, but obviously that didn't happen. What a legendary place.
5 years ago
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a_burger
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 21,143
don't know much about whistler but isn't there a second t-bar up there?
5 years ago
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Dstan
Posts: 138 - Karma: 1,109
There is another one up there, the Showcase T-Bar, but the Hortsman T-Bar is required to access it. A few years ago, Whistler Balckcomb has to move Showcase from the side of the slope to the middle of the slope because the glacier was receding.
a_burgerdon't know much about whistler but isn't there a second t-bar up there?
5 years ago
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12705 - Karma: 120,032
was bound to happen eventually. I think everyone was saying the time to shut down the glacier has come
5 years ago
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P3t3r
Posts: 1795 - Karma: 5,563
The top quarter of the t-bar was not used for several seasons in a row and kids had to hike out.

Curious to hear if they actually took it out permanently or they are simply moving it (like they did the other t-bar on the glacier). The fact that there was no press leads me to believe the latter. However they are owned by Vail so who knows.
5 years ago
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11990 - Karma: 12,272
wow i'm surprised there isn't more discussion on this, although i guess the forums are dying and it is summer..

i don't think this is the end of glacier skiing in whis. they make too much off of renting out the lanes for momentum and other race groups. they also added in snowmaking equipment on the glacier a few years ago to top up the melt over the winter. not to mention all the money guests spend on hotel rooms, food and merchandise in the village who are also there to ski. neither vail, whistler or momentum has said anything about it and i think they would be obliged to do so being the only other lift accessible summer skiing in north America aside from beartooth pass and hood. but then again COC did just cancel their program out of nowhere when they shut down so i could be wrong.

a friend of mine heard some rumours two seasons ago that it was the last summer for the glacier and that momentum was going to try and move it's operations to Valemount's new resort (has barely started construction.) he's also the type of guy to spread a lot of bullshit so i doubt that's true but i still like to hope so since it'll be a 5 hour shorter drive for me.

regardless of what will happen it's a sad day for skiing. lot's of memories, first tricks and friends were made lapping that t-bar.

**This post was edited on Jul 14th 2020 at 1:34:52am
5 years ago
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WoFlowz
Posts: 8094 - Karma: 64,473
I mean it is vail resorts and assets so they might just be replacing it with a six pack and even more expensive lift tickets
5 years ago
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GilsonSkis
Posts: 738 - Karma: 9,718
Rip. Time to start building the snow domes
5 years ago
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cheerio
Posts: 1032 - Karma: 3,415
Very sad news, never skied there in the summer, but definitely saw the impacts when I was there in January 2017 and 2019

First got introduced to the whole glacier receeding idea maybe 5 years ago when I heard a podcast about it. Pretty sure it was LPP. Obviously it started much before 5 years ago but things seemed to have progressed much faster in recent years. I think they planned on rebuilding the glacier in the wintertime but I guess that didnt work out.

Wonder if Hood and European summer skiing resorts are in their last years as well?

Also what level of impact salt used in summer parks would have on glaciers melting
5 years ago
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tyurlich
Posts: 4 - Karma: 35
This definitely sucks.
cheerioVery sad news, never skied there in the summer, but definitely saw the impacts when I was there in January 2017 and 2019

First got introduced to the whole glacier receeding idea maybe 5 years ago when I heard a podcast about it. Pretty sure it was LPP. Obviously it started much before 5 years ago but things seemed to have progressed much faster in recent years. I think they planned on rebuilding the glacier in the wintertime but I guess that didnt work out.

Wonder if Hood and European summer skiing resorts are in their last years as well?

Also what level of impact salt used in summer parks would have on glaciers melting


I actually think I know the answer to that. Pretty sure that the actual melting of the glacier isn't directly related to the application of salt itself but more due to the general use of the glacier for ski operations, that being said, salt does cause adverse effects to the sources of regional drinking water and also has negative effects on regional biodiversity because of the heightened chloride levels that appear in downstream runoff. There was a study done on the downstream effects by Teichrob at the University of British Columbia in 2010 & there's probably some more info you could search up
5 years ago
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 6003 - Karma: 3,694
.Dadwow i'm surprised there isn't more discussion on this, although i guess the forums are dying and it is summer..

i don't think this is the end of glacier skiing in whis. they make too much off of renting out the lanes for momentum and other race groups. they also added in snowmaking equipment on the glacier a few years ago to top up the melt over the winter. not to mention all the money guests spend on hotel rooms, food and merchandise in the village who are also there to ski. neither vail, whistler or momentum has said anything about it and i think they would be obliged to do so being the only other lift accessible summer skiing in north America aside from beartooth pass and hood. but then again COC did just cancel their program out of nowhere when they shut down so i could be wrong.

a friend of mine heard some rumours two seasons ago that it was the last summer for the glacier and that momentum was going to try and move it's operations to Vernon's new resort (has barely started construction.) he's also the type of guy to spread a lot of bullshit so i doubt that's true but i still like to hope so since it'll be a 5 hour shorter drive for me.

regardless of what will happen it's a sad day for skiing. lot's of memories, first tricks and friends were made lapping that t-bar.


When did Vernon get a new resort? Never heard of this.
5 years ago
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11990 - Karma: 12,272
hemlockjibber8When did Vernon get a new resort? Never heard of this.


sorry i meant Valemount. i'll edit my original post.
5 years ago
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12705 - Karma: 120,032
.Dadsorry i meant Valemount. i'll edit my original post.


Isnt the Oberti family behind valemount as well? We've all seen how much "progress" they made on their previous crystal mtn resort
5 years ago
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TACO-DOG.exe
Posts: 11990 - Karma: 12,272
TRVP_ANGELIsnt the Oberti family behind valemount as well? We've all seen how much "progress" they made on their previous crystal mtn resort


it is yes. i think they had some part in jumbo glacier too which got nowhere fast.
5 years ago
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bueno
Posts: 721 - Karma: 4,488
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/968165/IMG-3607-MOV
Video filmed yesterday. Sad site to see the t-bar gone. It's pretty clear that every year there is significantly less snow up there than the previous year so I wouldn't be surprised if summer Horstman glacier skiing is a thing of the past. Losing the t-bar on top of the lack of snow just seems like the last straw to throw in the towel

Edit: no sign of any of the t-bar parts up there so i don't think they're moving it elsewhere but who knows

**This post was edited on Jul 14th 2020 at 4:34:35pm
5 years ago
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freestyler540
Posts: 13231 - Karma: 20,383
T bars are dying in general. Seems like ski resorts are more interested in chairlifts now.
Too bad, I love riding T bars
5 years ago
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knert
Posts: 77 - Karma: 342
momentum still going just going to be s new way to the glacier
5 years ago
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tnabe
Posts: 280 - Karma: 448
There seems to be some confusion about which t-bar was removed. The lift that services the Blackcomb Glacier, Momentum and allows access to the Blackcomb backcountry still remains.

The Hortsman t-bar used to service Camp of Champs and connected the top of Glacier Chair to the other side of the ridge to the top of 7th Heaven.

The Hortsman t-bar hasn't been running for almost 2 seasons now and it's removal won't change anything that hasn't already been the case since 2018.
5 years ago
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12705 - Karma: 120,032
tnabeThere seems to be some confusion about which t-bar was removed. The lift that services the Blackcomb Glacier, Momentum and allows access to the Blackcomb backcountry still remains.

The Hortsman t-bar used to service Camp of Champs and connected the top of Glacier Chair to the other side of the ridge to the top of 7th Heaven.

The Hortsman t-bar hasn't been running for almost 2 seasons now and it's removal won't change anything that hasn't already been the case since 2018.


its used to get back to top of 7th in the summer and was operational last summer. Momentum announced that access will now be via glacier express lift starting next season. Only question is, will there be public park?

**This post was edited on Jul 15th 2020 at 3:51:39am
5 years ago
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Slunky
Posts: 691 - Karma: 2,344
They should just cancel all summertime glacier operations. The glacier is getting noticeably lower and lower every year, and its not worth destroying it to build a half assed public park and let a few rich kids and pros ski at camp for a few weeks
5 years ago
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Craigskis
Posts: 6650 - Karma: 1,645
TRVP_ANGELits used to get back to top of 7th in the summer and was operational last summer. Momentum announced that access will now be via glacier express lift starting next season. Only question is, will there be public park?

**This post was edited on Jul 15th 2020 at 3:51:39am


Glacier express would mean having to download from Jersey Cream after catching a lift up Solar, it cuts out the bus ride mind you.
5 years ago
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
In Whistler's master plan, they were going to eventually replace the T-bars with a gondola.

That doesn't mean that summer skiing will still be a thing up there, though. That glacier is going FAST.
5 years ago
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,681
It’s been almost 15 years since I was on the glacier in the summer. Even then you could tell the difference over the previous 5 years. When the free skiing summer camps (CoC and High North) really started in the late 90s and early ‘00s you could ski until August. By 2005 it was over by mid July.

great memories though. High North was the shit.
5 years ago
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twinkle_toes
Posts: 815 - Karma: 9,725
4 years ago
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sheddd
Posts: 119 - Karma: 511
:(
4 years ago
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eheath
Posts: 61949 - Karma: 126,666
twinkle_toes


It's also september?
4 years ago
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HypeBeast
Posts: 10062 - Karma: 76,214
Obviously this is 99% global warming but have y'all ever considered that skiing contributes to glacial melt? Thinking about it if a mass of snow is left to melt on its own, it will take much longer than if it is being continuously chopped up and turned over. When you ski, you push the snow around and create more surface area that's exposed to the air. You are also mixing snow from the surface with snow below the surface and changing the temperature gradient, which accelerates melt.

Likely minimal but just a thought.
4 years ago
5 0
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eheath
Posts: 61949 - Karma: 126,666
HypeBeastObviously this is 99% global warming but have y'all ever considered that skiing contributes to glacial melt? Thinking about it if a mass of snow is left to melt on its own, it will take much longer than if it is being continuously chopped up and turned over. When you ski, you push the snow around and create more surface area that's exposed to the air. You are also mixing snow from the surface with snow below the surface and changing the temperature gradient, which accelerates melt.

Likely minimal but just a thought.


Nobody skied the glacier for two summers now so that's sort of irrelevant to the current situation on the glacier.
4 years ago
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3mania
Posts: 2648 - Karma: 10,799
Sad, so many good times up there. Any update on that Valemount glacier ski place?
4 years ago
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Notaskibum
Posts: 849 - Karma: 4,005
HypeBeastObviously this is 99% global warming but have y'all ever considered that skiing contributes to glacial melt? Thinking about it if a mass of snow is left to melt on its own, it will take much longer than if it is being continuously chopped up and turned over. When you ski, you push the snow around and create more surface area that's exposed to the air. You are also mixing snow from the surface with snow below the surface and changing the temperature gradient, which accelerates melt.

Likely minimal but just a thought.


Don't quote me on this but grooming / skiing actually makes the snow last longer by compacting it or whatever
4 years ago
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Paul.
Posts: 1655 - Karma: 11,554
eheathIt's also september?

Do you know what a glacier is?

eheathNobody skied the glacier for two summers now so that's sort of irrelevant to the current situation on the glacier.

Discussing potential contributing factors to the deterioration of the Horstman glacier isn’t relevant to a thread about the deterioration of the Horstman glacier?
4 years ago
17 1
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jps2.0
Posts: 480 - Karma: 2,479
NotaskibumDon't quote me on this but grooming / skiing actually makes the snow last longer by compacting it or whatever


i think having groomers would impact the glacier melt, but i have also heard skiing can reduce glaciers/snow melt
4 years ago
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eheath
Posts: 61949 - Karma: 126,666
Paul.Do you know what a glacier is?


Discussing potential contributing factors to the deterioration of the Horstman glacier isn’t relevant to a thread about the deterioration of the Horstman glacier?


Clearly I hit a heart string, nothing has been posted ina year and the photo of it right now seems to be the most revilvent part of this thread.

Skiing has effects on the environment, snow is literally melting when you ski down it, seems a bit arbitrary to discuss it, no?
4 years ago
2 5
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WoFlowz
Posts: 8094 - Karma: 64,473
jps2.0i think having groomers would impact the glacier melt, but i have also heard skiing can reduce glaciers/snow melt


Yeah usually groomers will keep the dirt and dusk from accumulating on the top of the now/ice and actually keeps it from melting as fast as it would be covered in say ash, dust, dirt, gravel etc
4 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9615 - Karma: 71,533
looking at this, that is definitely pretty sad.
4 years ago
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eheath
Posts: 61949 - Karma: 126,666
WoFlowzYeah usually groomers will keep the dirt and dusk from accumulating on the top of the now/ice and actually keeps it from melting as fast as it would be covered in say ash, dust, dirt, gravel etc


This is also true, the white surface absorbs less heat than dirt/rocks/etc
4 years ago
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EvanMeyer
Posts: 3828 - Karma: 3,533
Palmer on hood is next, no way in hell it lasts a couple more seasons if we continue To have low snow years and brutally hot summers here in Oregon.
4 years ago
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HypeBeast
Posts: 10062 - Karma: 76,214
EvanMeyerPalmer on hood is next, no way in hell it lasts a couple more seasons if we continue To have low snow years and brutally hot summers here in Oregon.


Have faith in la Nina little one
4 years ago
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theabortionator
Posts: 52607 - Karma: 174,418
HypeBeastObviously this is 99% global warming but have y'all ever considered that skiing contributes to glacial melt? Thinking about it if a mass of snow is left to melt on its own, it will take much longer than if it is being continuously chopped up and turned over. When you ski, you push the snow around and create more surface area that's exposed to the air. You are also mixing snow from the surface with snow below the surface and changing the temperature gradient, which accelerates melt.

Likely minimal but just a thought.


Idk what it would be for a glacier and summer, but machines packing the snow down can actually prolong the snow life for a normal mountain. Even skiing packing it down. The same way if you walk down the side walk in a snow storm and ir doesnt get shoveled the footprints may take a longer time to melt because the snow is compressed and more solid.

Also as far as thread, that sucks. Hood looks pretty bleak right now too :(
4 years ago
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6448 - Karma: 70,207
jps2.0i think having groomers would impact the glacier melt, but i have also heard skiing can reduce glaciers/snow melt


eheathClearly I hit a heart string, nothing has been posted ina year and the photo of it right now seems to be the most revilvent part of this thread.

Skiing has effects on the environment, snow is literally melting when you ski down it, seems a bit arbitrary to discuss it, no?


Yeah grooming the snow definitely helps it because the cats don't depend on snow melting to operate. They also can plan where snow needs to be moved/packed accordingly.
Like eheath said, skis literally slide on a tiny layer of melted water and no skier is thinking about where they're moving the snow around to in the middle of a turn or slash.
Also, groomers usually operate at night or morning when it's colder out. When hundreds of people are turning the snow over in the middle of the day when it's sunny and 50 degrees, lots more gets exposed/melted.
4 years ago
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3mania
Posts: 2648 - Karma: 10,799
1000's of lbs. of salt?
4 years ago
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ReturnToMonkey
Posts: 6448 - Karma: 70,207
3mania1000's of lbs. of salt?

Mfw people respond to climate change events with more environmentally harmful actions :(
4 years ago
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theabortionator
Posts: 52607 - Karma: 174,418
3mania1000's of lbs. of salt?

I don't even want my brain to try and process the amount of salt that gets used. Somewhere between 1, 40 pound bag and a trillion billion gazillion pounds a day.

I know it's the only way to make it work, and they monitor it, but it's gotta have some impact for sure.
4 years ago
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EvanMeyer
Posts: 3828 - Karma: 3,533
HypeBeastHave faith in la Nina little one


Technically the La Niña cycle was last season but from forecast predications I have seen it could potentially reemerge this fall and into winter. I’ve got my fingers crossed but have also seen predictions of a cold dry winter so we’ll see. Bachelor didn’t even hit its average last year we were about 40” under and I think hood may have just barely hit theirs.
4 years ago
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HypeBeast
Posts: 10062 - Karma: 76,214
EvanMeyerTechnically the La Niña cycle was last season but from forecast predications I have seen it could potentially reemerge this fall and into winter. I’ve got my fingers crossed but have also seen predictions of a cold dry winter so we’ll see. Bachelor didn’t even hit its average last year we were about 40” under and I think hood may have just barely hit theirs.


Last forecast I saw was this is another la Niña this year at 70-80% probability by the NOAA.
4 years ago
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