The rise of the instagram activist.

It seems hard to deny that it raises awareness to issues at hand...think of BLM over the last few weeks. The shift in public opinion is definitely in part due to IG activism.

Whether or not people are virtue signaling or not depends on the person IMO.

Whether or not a person swayed one way or another depends on the individuals personality. I'd like to think that more people are open to other opinions and perspectives, unfortunately it seems as though that's not the case.

JAHBRADORIn the past 6 months or so, the amount of people that I have seen consistently posting about left/right leaning issues has risen dramatically. Im not talking about one or two stories here or there, I’m referring to the people who are reposting up to 30 stories each day on a range of issues.

Do you think this is an effective way of trying to convince more people to sympathise with your views or does it simply make the people that were always going to agree with you agree, and the people that were always going to disagree with you hate what ever topic you are trying to preach even more?

Do you think that this is actually effective at spreading awareness? Or just armchair activism?

I know exactly what you're talking about, honestly I've just unfollowed these people (or at least, hidden their stories).

Does that make a bad person? I don't know and being honest again, I don't really care if it does....I keep up with current affairs pretty well, so I don't need my Instagram absolutely filled with (mostly unreliable sources of) propaganda from people that never, ever posted about this before and when this blows over, won't ever again.

IMO 90+% of people on social media who are posting "woke" stuff are virtue signaling.

There's a bunch of people I follow who posted their black square, made a story, then it was back to posting selfies in bikinis showing off their cleavage.

JAHBRADORIn the past 6 months or so, the amount of people that I have seen consistently posting about left/right leaning issues has risen dramatically. Im not talking about one or two stories here or there, I’m referring to the people who are reposting up to 30 stories each day on a range of issues.

Do you think this is an effective way of trying to convince more people to sympathise with your views or does it simply make the people that were always going to agree with you agree, and the people that were always going to disagree with you hate what ever topic you are trying to preach even more?

Do you think that this is actually effective at spreading awareness? Or just armchair activism?

Nah, these social media posts don't do anything but radicalize people who already supported or opposed your agenda. Society would be a lot better off if social media just didn't exist.


Also, only about 2% of the US population posts to Twitter. Social media posts are nowhere near representative of how the country feels about anything.

I welcome any and all civil discourse. People need to start talking to each or this country is going to boog the fuck out.

just imagine if all democrats and libs moved to California and we put a HUGE wall around it....

bye bye welfare. could bring back the show cops. Have cartoons with guns again. No more crying little bitches. BS medicare. I mean literally america would be great again.

to ur topic- social media just proves how corrupted the main stream media really is.

White saviorism and social media slacktavism is nauseating. I try to keep my feed mostly ski/bike/motorcycle/gun/car porn and less bs as much as possible

BiffbarfWhite saviorism and social media slacktavism is nauseating. I try to keep my feed mostly ski/bike/motorcycle/gun/car porn and less bs as much as possible

Yup. Doesn’t help that the world is stopped and we can’t even get baseball in empty stadiums. These are idiots in normal times but they become something else when there is nothing else to do but demean minorities and tell them what your white privileged ass thinks they need.

JAHpowIMO 90+% of people on social media who are posting "woke" stuff are virtue signaling.

I'd argue 99%

I think it is a bit of armchair activism but people do read/look at them. If only 1 person changes their opinion then it its worth it imo.

there's a mental health component to it that, in my opinion, enough engagement online dying on whatever hill you believe in, is going to fuck up your brain a little bit. Then again, mental health in this country has been an ongoing problem for a very long time and i think it certainly exploded thanks to the virus lockdowns and all the turmoil

Its fine to raise awareness but the second it gets to checking your phone/twitter/FB/whatever religiously after making an opinion, you got a problem.

**This post was edited on Jun 17th 2020 at 6:35:51pm

DeebieSkeebiesthere's a mental health component to it that, in my opinion, enough engagement online dying on whatever hill you believe in, is going to fuck up your brain a little bit. Then again, mental health in this country has been an ongoing problem for a very long time and i think it certainly exploded thanks to the virus lockdowns and all the turmoil

Its fine to raise awareness but the second it gets to checking your phone/twitter/FB/whatever religiously after making an opinion, you got a problem.

**This post was edited on Jun 17th 2020 at 6:35:51pm

This, I think the US has a pretty severe mental health problem that isn't being addressed. It'll be interesting to see what happens but sadly I don't have high hopes for much change

JAHpowIMO 90+% of people on social media who are posting "woke" stuff are virtue signaling.

There's a bunch of people I follow who posted their black square, made a story, then it was back to posting selfies in bikinis showing off their cleavage.

A show of solidarity matters, makes a measurable difference and influences discourse. The existence of this thread is one example of this. Millions of people who have never before spoken publicly about these issues are doing so for the first time. Does that make them hypocrites and their actions meaningless?

I guess I'm a little confused as to what your expectations are. You can't expect that everyone who posted a black square to Instagram will wake up the next morning as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. reincarnated. There are different levels at which people engage in these issues, and the simple expression of a position, or of solidarity with a position, is the most basic level. Even if someone posts something about anti-racism once in their lives, and never again, it's still an improvement over the baseline.

For me an argument about "virtue signaling" is a nonstarter. Everyone, consciously or not, makes public displays intended to demonstrate good character or moral correctness (as they see it). At the end of the day, it's nearly impossible to judge whether or not someone does something because "they really feel that way," or because they're "just trying to look like they feel that way." Everyone signals virtue. You signal virtue by calling out people who you think are signalling virtue. Unless you want to point out specific, explicit instances of hypocrisy, like "You posted a black square on IG, but you're also a card-carrying member of the KKK," I don't see much use in complaining about virtue signalling.

I've seen a lot of these posts in the past few weeks ("16 year old white girls post black squares to Instagram. Congratulations, racism is now over.") and have been trying to make sense of them. At the core of this issue, I believe, is mean spirit towards earnest people who are trying to make a difference. We cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good. While posting a black square on Instagram may not "change anything" in the world, it still has a measurable effect, and it's better than nothing.

I know this is hard for some people to believe, but for some people even the mere fact of posting a black square to Instagram was a contentious move that inflamed conflict among family & friends, inspired conversations and pissed off more than a few racists. There are still a lot of people out there who can't even bring themselves to mutter the words "black lives matter" even in the most basic and unpolitical of contexts.

Social media is for cowards. It exemplifies man's fear of death by outsourcing data regarding his life and what he did in it to a corporation - which like a church, is promising him life after death on an online platform where his data will live 'forever'

PeppermillRenoYup. Doesn’t help that the world is stopped and we can’t even get baseball in empty stadiums. These are idiots in normal times but they become something else when there is nothing else to do but demean minorities and tell them what your white privileged ass thinks they need.

The fact that the MLB can't get its shit together is embarrassing. Just do the same revenue split as the NBA and NHL and be done with it. It's only for one year, and then you can have your regular contracts back.

If I radicalized one person even a little by making them aware of all the heinous shit cops, our government, and the ruling class engages in every day, then it was worth it. There are different levels of activism, and purely social media activism can be either quite genuine or the virtue signaling conservatives love to whine about (most likely to be seen in corporate/branded posting imo), but even something cynical could have a positive outcome.

Literally everyone is saying the same shit only to raise awareness and nobody is actually talking about POLICY CHANGES. I'm sick of hearing about the 2343423th atrocity that's happened recently, not because I don't sympathize with the victims or the oppressed, but because it's not bringing anything new to the table. Can we please have actual discourse about what the United States government needs to do to fix this shit????

I have a difficult time with this. On one side I think that what you do should be what you do. Not a big fan of oversharing and making sure your feed knows everything you are doing. I'm also not a big fan of virtue signaling, I know that makes me sound alt-right but I don't like virtue signaling in the sense that people that I know are doing it on social while generally just being shitheads on a day to day basis. I'm not a crazy conservative that thinks anyone who is trying to be a good person is just virtue signaling. I just don't like people I know personally doing it. Also, I feel like I see too many empty cries on Instagram from people who won't do anything outside of posting. If you care enough to post you should care enough to at least vote, contact your reps, donate, or anything else that brings around real change. There's a girl I know posting 30 stories a day about everything going on. She also has bragged about not voting and won't go in certain areas of town because they are "poor areas and gross". I hate that shit

On the other side, I think that anything you do to help a cause is still helping so....idk where I'm at with all of this

You got me to change my opinion on this.

ESBA show of solidarity matters, makes a measurable difference and influences discourse. The existence of this thread is one example of this. Millions of people who have never before spoken publicly about these issues are doing so for the first time. Does that make them hypocrites and their actions meaningless?

I guess I'm a little confused as to what your expectations are. You can't expect that everyone who posted a black square to Instagram will wake up the next morning as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. reincarnated. There are different levels at which people engage in these issues, and the simple expression of a position, or of solidarity with a position, is the most basic level. Even if someone posts something about anti-racism once in their lives, and never again, it's still an improvement over the baseline.

For me an argument about "virtue signaling" is a nonstarter. Everyone, consciously or not, makes public displays intended to demonstrate good character or moral correctness (as they see it). At the end of the day, it's nearly impossible to judge whether or not someone does something because "they really feel that way," or because they're "just trying to look like they feel that way." Everyone signals virtue. You signal virtue by calling out people who you think are signalling virtue. Unless you want to point out specific, explicit instances of hypocrisy, like "You posted a black square on IG, but you're also a card-carrying member of the KKK," I don't see much use in complaining about virtue signalling.

I've seen a lot of these posts in the past few weeks ("16 year old white girls post black squares to Instagram. Congratulations, racism is now over.") and have been trying to make sense of them. At the core of this issue, I believe, is mean spirit towards earnest people who are trying to make a difference. We cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good. While posting a black square on Instagram may not "change anything" in the world, it still has a measurable effect, and it's better than nothing.

I know this is hard for some people to believe, but for some people even the mere fact of posting a black square to Instagram was a contentious move that inflamed conflict among family & friends, inspired conversations and pissed off more than a few racists. There are still a lot of people out there who can't even bring themselves to mutter the words "black lives matter" even in the most basic and unpolitical of contexts.

FruitBootProLiterally everyone is saying the same shit only to raise awareness and nobody is actually talking about POLICY CHANGES. I'm sick of hearing about the 2343423th atrocity that's happened recently, not because I don't sympathize with the victims or the oppressed, but because it's not bringing anything new to the table. Can we please have actual discourse about what the United States government needs to do to fix this shit????

Are you really saying you haven’t seen posts saying defund the police?

Left or right

you're fucked either way

CLQAre you really saying you haven’t seen posts saying defund the police?

No, I've seen those. That's a good start and a movement I can get behind. But that's literally like the only kind of policy change that is being promoted on social media.

ESBA show of solidarity matters, makes a measurable difference and influences discourse. The existence of this thread is one example of this. Millions of people who have never before spoken publicly about these issues are doing so for the first time. Does that make them hypocrites and their actions meaningless?

I guess I'm a little confused as to what your expectations are. You can't expect that everyone who posted a black square to Instagram will wake up the next morning as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. reincarnated. There are different levels at which people engage in these issues, and the simple expression of a position, or of solidarity with a position, is the most basic level. Even if someone posts something about anti-racism once in their lives, and never again, it's still an improvement over the baseline.

For me an argument about "virtue signaling" is a nonstarter. Everyone, consciously or not, makes public displays intended to demonstrate good character or moral correctness (as they see it). At the end of the day, it's nearly impossible to judge whether or not someone does something because "they really feel that way," or because they're "just trying to look like they feel that way." Everyone signals virtue. You signal virtue by calling out people who you think are signalling virtue. Unless you want to point out specific, explicit instances of hypocrisy, like "You posted a black square on IG, but you're also a card-carrying member of the KKK," I don't see much use in complaining about virtue signalling.

I've seen a lot of these posts in the past few weeks ("16 year old white girls post black squares to Instagram. Congratulations, racism is now over.") and have been trying to make sense of them. At the core of this issue, I believe, is mean spirit towards earnest people who are trying to make a difference. We cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good. While posting a black square on Instagram may not "change anything" in the world, it still has a measurable effect, and it's better than nothing.

I know this is hard for some people to believe, but for some people even the mere fact of posting a black square to Instagram was a contentious move that inflamed conflict among family & friends, inspired conversations and pissed off more than a few racists. There are still a lot of people out there who can't even bring themselves to mutter the words "black lives matter" even in the most basic and unpolitical of contexts.

A show of solidarity to what?

I don't mean to sound facetious. What are people showing solidarity to?

Is it just for George Floyd? Literally everyone believes that what Derek Chauvin did was wrong. He should go to jail for a very long time. There's no one, with a measurable impact on social discourse, saying what he did was justified.

Is it for the protests? It's literally written into law that peaceful protests are lawful. But then the same question goes for the protests.

So what's the black square for? If not for signaling virtue?

Is it for the rioting and looting? If it is, then I do not support the square. I don't support that which is illegal.

Is it systemic racism? There is no evidence of a system in place to target and oppress black people. Not in any legal system, at least. Discrimination laws strictly forbid discrimination. The statistics also show that policing doesn't show a system against black people. There are many sources on this. There's also a higher percentage of black police officers than compared to black people in society. And what are these people who are kneeling in front of black activists and apologizing for racism doing? They obviously aren't racists! There are Seattle businesses recommending that their white employees undergo training to recognize their white privilege. Is Seattle a bastion of racism? If it is, that's news to me. Or these actors and actresses that are doing their apology video. What are they apologizing for? I guess Kristen Bell is a red blooded racist.

Is it for the removal of historical figures and statues? Did Germany remove the concentration camps? Should they remove the concentration camps? I find it very problematic to wash our history clean of it's wrongdoing. History repeats itself. We need it in order to learn from it. I would rather a statue be removed and placed in a museum than destroyed.

Are people standing in solidarity for the poverty of black communities? Well, that one sounds more justified. I actually support that. There were people out in the social spheres that were posting about getting out a voting. It was a primary day. I 100%, no question, think EVERYONE should go vote. It is your civic duty. Go vote. Yes, post voting related posts. Now, while people can vote, they can only vote in their communities. Most of my voting life was spent in North Dakota. As of last year, ND is tied for the lowest rate of unemployment. We voted in people who did well for the state and for the communities. Is it my problem that Chicago votes in total garbage government leaders that are corrupt? It's actually not, and I can't vote there. I'm sorry, but if you keep voting in people that do nothing about poverty in your area then that's your problem. Maybe I should start posting calls for the people of Chicago to vote in better leadership. I'm sure that will go over well.

So what is the show of solidarity for?

To your other point- I have no expectations. I don't get the point of it in the first place. What's the difference between posting a black square for black people or a yellow square for Asian people? Oh, but that's racist. Well, what color would I use then? And what am I supporting? Where's the square for human trafficking? Where's the square for the oppression of women in Muslim counties? Because that's actually systemic. Where's the square for the wild increase in suicide?

"JAHpow, do you post about those things?" Nope, I'm Switzerland on social media. I use my insta as a portfolio for my photo work. But I'm not about to signal virtue for what I do do here.

My issue is that these people in my feed post once and happily disregard everything else. "Oh, well, one issue at a time then, right?" Don't be naive.

I get your argument, and it has its merits. And I don't want anyone to assume that I think that you shouldn't be allowed to post a black square, because I believe that you should have that freedom. However, I'm incredibly upset with the hypocrisy of all of this. (Which you mentioned examples- there are videos of models in the street getting their photos to show they were "a part" of the protests, there's looters interviewed on camera saying they don't care about George Floyd, only about getting what they can without getting caught, go look at blue checkmarks and see how many have a continued presence of "solidarity", or the kid who called out Dave Portnoy for not posting a black square- "Bro it's just a box just post it." And yet that kid didn't post the "box". I could keep going, but it's 1am)

Answer my rhetorical questions if you want, but now you get where I'm coming from.

JAHpowIs it for the removal of historical figures and statues? Did Germany remove the concentration camps? Should they remove the concentration camps? I find it very problematic to wash our history clean of it's wrongdoing. History repeats itself. We need it in order to learn from it. I would rather a statue be removed and placed in a museum than destroyed.

We need statues of Adam Lanza up at Sandy Hook and maybe one of Nikolas Cruz at Parkland to help remember history or something...

FruitBootProNo, I've seen those. That's a good start and a movement I can get behind. But that's literally like the only kind of policy change that is being promoted on social media.

That might be the only policy change that’s being promoted because that’s a simple, clear solution. If there are no police, police won’t kill people. What should be done with all the money is a bit more complex, but I bet your local police/prison abolitionist group has a fairly specific plan for what needs funds, if not exact dollar amounts. Sure, the police are part of a complex system of oppressive forces that enforce the status quo, but what other policy change are you looking for with regards to this specific issue? I’m genuinely curious.

CLQWe need statues of Adam Lanza up at Sandy Hook and maybe one of Nikolas Cruz at Parkland to help remember history or something...

Yeah, because the part you quoted is clearly about creating new statues of bad people. You are the dumbest person on this planet.

JAHpowYeah, because the part you quoted is clearly about creating new statues of bad people. You are the dumbest person on this planet.

If they already had a statue and you agreed with it getting taken down, then you’re a fucking hypocrite. Believe me, African Americans do not want anyone to forget the hundreds of years of slavery in the US. The holocaust is a permanent stain on Germany’s history but they don’t glorify it. Hitlers bunker is now a parking lot, there are no Nazi flags being waved, Hitler isn’t on a pedestal anywhere. If you can’t see the difference between glorifying a person with a statue and acknowledging and trying to learn about one countries troubled past then you should just not talk.

*TURBONERD*That might be the only policy change that’s being promoted because that’s a simple, clear solution. If there are no police, police won’t kill people. What should be done with all the money is a bit more complex, but I bet your local police/prison abolitionist group has a fairly specific plan for what needs funds, if not exact dollar amounts. Sure, the police are part of a complex system of oppressive forces that enforce the status quo, but what other policy change are you looking for with regards to this specific issue? I’m genuinely curious.

Ok, first of all, "Defund The Police" is not the same as "Abolish The Police". "Defund The Police" means that police departments should get reduced funding, which I agree with. I don't think police are the only thing keeping crime from running amok or some other bs like that, but I don't think they should go away entirely. Anyway...

In terms of policy change with respect to law enforcement:

-Require police to wear body cams and keep them on at all times
-IMPLEMENT A MUCH MORE INTENSIVE TRAINING PROGRAM FOR POLICE
-Change police conduct policy to punish police more severely when they make an unnecessary kill or something else similar
-END NO KNOCK RAIDS
-Scale back police funding
-Lower the drinking age to 18 at the highest
-End the War on Drugs and legalize many recreational drugs
-Release prisoners who have been imprisoned on nonviolent drug charges
-Scale back gun control laws

Can't think of anything else at the moment.
Would also be nice if we got an expert at the federal level to redesign the police system to be less intrusive and more effective, in addition to making sure that police training develops mental toughness and focus in high-stress situations, like how Navy/Air Force pilots are trained.

FruitBootProOk, first of all, "Defund The Police" is not the same as "Abolish The Police". "Defund The Police" means that police departments should get reduced funding, which I agree with. I don't think police are the only thing keeping crime from running amok or some other bs like that, but I don't think they should go away entirely. Anyway...

In terms of policy change with respect to law enforcement:

-Require police to wear body cams and keep them on at all times
-IMPLEMENT A MUCH MORE INTENSIVE TRAINING PROGRAM FOR POLICE
-Change police conduct policy to punish police more severely when they make an unnecessary kill or something else similar
-END NO KNOCK RAIDS
-Scale back police funding
-Lower the drinking age to 18 at the highest
-End the War on Drugs and legalize many recreational drugs
-Release prisoners who have been imprisoned on nonviolent drug charges
-Scale back gun control laws

Can't think of anything else at the moment.
Would also be nice if we got an expert at the federal level to redesign the police system to be less intrusive and more effective, in addition to making sure that police training develops mental toughness and focus in high-stress situations, like how Navy/Air Force pilots are trained.

Wouldn't it make more sense to increase education (non-POST) requirements for becoming a peace officer, provide more funding, and make becoming a peace officer a more attractive idea to people whom you would actually want in the job?

I feel like the concept of defunding problematic law enforcement departments would be akin to defunding poorly performing schools.

Also the phrases "Defund The Police" and "Abolish The Police" kill me in their ineffective messaging for what people are really suggesting. They seem to always be followed by these kinds of lists having to explain what they mean. Wouldn't something along the lines of "Reform The Police" make more sense, be more effective, and not alienate people who are on the middle ground of these issues to support real change?

I'm all for reform and holding law enforcement officials (all public officials, really) to the highest of standards. The shit is broken and always has been; I worry the loudest voices in the room are going to squander this opportunity by drowning out reason.

**This post was edited on Jun 21st 2020 at 7:35:43pm

ebotdzWouldn't it make more sense to increase education (non-POST) requirements for becoming a peace officer, provide more funding, and make becoming a peace officer a more attractive idea to people whom you would actually want in the job?

I feel like the concept of defunding problematic law enforcement departments would be akin to defunding poorly performing schools.

Also the phrases "Defend The Police" and "Abolish The Police" kill me in their ineffective messaging for what people are really suggesting. They seem to always be followed by these kinds of lists having to explain what they mean. Wouldn't something along the lines of "Reform The Police" make more sense, be more effective, and not alienate people who are on the middle ground of these issues to support real change?

I'm all for reform and holding law enforcement officials (all public officials, really) to the highest of standards. The shit is broken and always has been; I worry the loudest voices in the room are going to squander this opportunity by drowning out reason.

In a perfect world you'd be right, but law enforcement officials have demonstrated that they aren't just going to change, and there isn't a clear way for them to be held accountable when they break the rules. Look up what has happened to some actual good police officers who report abuse/racism/brutality, they get there lives ruined basically. If they couldn't even arrest the cops who killed George Floyd immediately how can you trust them to properly allocate funds? Basically gotta tear the building down and start from a new foundation instead of the rotten one thats there already.

In regards to the OP social media has a place informing people who are on the fence by letting them know where you stand ("oh wow all my friends I morally trust are posting about this issue, maybe I should look deeper into this") but when it comes down to changing someones opinion your so much better off conversing with them in person, internet debates are awful at defusing disagreements.

**This post was edited on Jun 21st 2020 at 12:47:37am