Shift vs Duke pt

This is an interesting one and I'm sure it's going to be the decision a lot of people dealing with this season.

Disclaimer: I've played with the Duke PT but I haven't skied it at this point, so I can't talk about how it skis.

First answer is easy, 7mm is fine, you won't notice.

The Shift is a great binding, but it isn't without issues. For one thing, they are mega sensitive and fiddly. If you have any snow under your boot, they have a tendency to pre-release. If you have your settings off, even to a minute degree, they also tend to pre-release. In my experience, even if you set them to your normal DIN setting and with the fwpressure/toe height according to the catalog, they release far easier than my Tyrolia Attacks. Everyone I know using them for anything trick related is upping DINs and going for more forward pressure than the catalog recommends. I still think they are the best touring/skiing solution I've tried though. I much prefer being at a higher DIN/over recommended pressure to just locking out Kingpins. But it's not a perfect solution, just the best I've found. I don't know if the Duke PT is better for that, but I'm hoping to try some soon.

I also find the lack of a second touring riser on the Shift really annoying. Two options (a few degrees higher and lower) would be so much better.

If you're on the RMU Wiley, I'm assuming you do want to do some sending, so the Duke might (though there are no guarantees) be better. In the hand, the Duke feels really solid, more so than the Shift, especially in the heel. Clipping in has a more alpine binding-like feel. That's only an instinctive reaction but it feels a more burly solution, and it should be for the extra weight. But if you're prepared to go for the Duke PT weight-wise, you could also look at CAST, which gives you a Pivot 15/18 on the downhill, and a touring toe on the uphill (and more risers).

Yep, I agree with everything Twig said. I spent 6 days on the Duke PT this year, all of which were in the backcountry since we got it after the resort closed. The main upside with the Duke PT vs. the Shift is that, so far, the Duke PT seems way less sensitive to precise settings.

Unfortunately, I can't say this with 100% certainty since I haven't been able to ski it super hard in the resort yet, but simply based on the AFD (which physically can't accidentally drop down like the Shift's) and the fact that the Duke PT's heel is literally a Jester heel (rather than the Shift's being a new heel entirely), I actually trust it a bit more than the Shift if I'm skiing super hard or attempting to throw tricks. The main downside with the Duke PT is that it's notably heavier (more notable if you get the 16 rather than the 12) and it has a removable piece that you could lose and that has greater potential for icing (though I still haven't had any icing issues with the Duke PT). And this isn't a downside vs. the Shift, but they both only have one riser which can be annoying if you end up on a lot of steep skin tracks.

Given that the Duke PT is so new, if someone's worried about the Shift not holding them in well enough for big drops and tricks, I'm pointing most of them toward the CAST system simply because that system is more proven than the Duke PT. If people continue to have zero issues with the Duke PT going forward, then I think it's gonna mostly come down to how many risers you want and which alpine binding you prefer in terms of the Duke PT vs CAST question. I also suspect the Duke would be less prone to icing issues, but again, can't say that for sure right now.

All that said, if the Shift is significantly cheaper for you and you're alright with spending some time getting the settings dialed and figuring out what DIN you need to run, I'd probably go that route. I've spent tons of days in the Shift with no issues, and usually only had a problem when I was skiing it hard on pow days in the resort (jumping into chop, skiing harder than I do in the bc) and I was switching between boots and didn't pay close enough attention to the AFD and forward pressure. I'm 5'8" 155 lbs and when I have the settings dialed, I haven't had any pre-releases when I run the Shift's DINs at 10 (1 above my normal settings).

Also, I bet the 120 mm Shift brake is actually wider than the Duke's 125. The Shift brakes are massive. There's a chance the 110 mm Shift brake might even fit the YLE Pro. I can try the Shift's 110 mm brake on a 118mm-wide ski later today and let you know.

I'm still not 100% sold on the shifts, I have 2 pairs, we are having some trust issues, but the weight vs duke is definetly a thing (have them on BC100 and BC120)



I really really wanna try the duke PT, thinking about putting on next years revolt 121, but again, a heavier ski, so really gonna feel the up. duke PT = weight, but proven heal and toe design.

anders_aI'm still not 100% sold on the shifts, I have 2 pairs, we are having some trust issues, but the weight vs duke is definetly a thing (have them on BC100 and BC120)



I really really wanna try the duke PT, thinking about putting on next years revolt 121, but again, a heavier ski, so really gonna feel the up. duke PT = weight, but proven heal and toe design.

FWIW, if you're not running a DIN of 13, the Duke PT 12 is negligibly heavier (if not a tiny bit lighter) than the Shift 13 in terms of on-ski weight. In my opinion, I don't think the weight of the Duke PT should be a major deciding factor for most people unless you're doing a ton of laps per day or super long trips. I'd say the bigger factors are the removable toe piece and just the fact that it's a new design. I'm guessing I've had 200 grams (basically the on-ski weight difference between Duke PT 16 vs. Shift 13) worth of snow on my ski at points.

I'm 6'2 and 215-220lbs, for some reason it seems they think all skiers are short feathers ;)



But you do have a point about the PT12 and weight, but I tend to choose jester, over griffon. I find on a proper binding like the Jester I can run a lower DIN than other bindings.



Wonder how the shift vs PT12 actually compare... I think you have some matrial for a test right there guys, ideally someone 6'2 and 200-220lbs or more for the testing

**This post was edited on May 27th 2020 at 9:48:02am

anders_aI'm 6'2 and 215-220lbs, for some reason it seems they think all skiers are short feathers ;)



But you do have a point about the PT12 and weight, but I tend to choose jester, over griffon. I find on a proper binding like the Jester I can run a lower DIN than other bindings.



Wonder how the shift vs PT12 actually compare... I think you have some matrial for a test right there guys, ideally someone 6'2 and 200-220lbs or more for the testing

**This post was edited on May 27th 2020 at 9:48:02am

Ha, got it. Yeah we're hoping to review the Duke PT 12 next season. Samples for any of the Duke PTs weren't available until March, which was kinda ridiculous since they announced it in November, but it seems like they have production on track now so hopefully we'll be able to give it a try next season. I'm personally very curious cause I definitely don't need the 16 and am fine with Griffons in the resort.

anders_aI'm still not 100% sold on the shifts, I have 2 pairs, we are having some trust issues, but the weight vs duke is definetly a thing (have them on BC100 and BC120)



I really really wanna try the duke PT, thinking about putting on next years revolt 121, but again, a heavier ski, so really gonna feel the up. duke PT = weight, but proven heal and toe design.

Not proven toe design, you meant. Why pay for being a beta-tester? 1st season product for sending hard = not a good combo. Cast looks like best option, but it should be carefully mounted with jig to avoid issues with changing toes (search topics here or on TGR).

As for the Shift, I have a theory that its performance depends on the boot. I also have some trust issues with mine even cranked to 13. I verified pressure setting myself, then at the shop and then to be 200% in another shop. Everything is set according to manual, however they still release unexpectedly from time to time. However I have friends that send hard and they swear by shifts.

patagonialukeHa, got it. Yeah we're hoping to review the Duke PT 12 next season. Samples for any of the Duke PTs weren't available until March, which was kinda ridiculous since they announced it in November, but it seems like they have production on track now so hopefully we'll be able to give it a try next season. I'm personally very curious cause I definitely don't need the 16 and am fine with Griffons in the resort.

But I think it was said that PT12 will have Squire heel, not Griffon. And I've seen so many Squire heels broken... Though they told they redesigned it

Thx for the replies twig and Luke. I’ll be going with the duke and I’ll make a post about how it does for pre release. I hate pre release, even my attaks din a fwp are higher than need but my pivots and jesters right at Rec

N41v131355But I think it was said that PT12 will have Squire heel, not Griffon. And I've seen so many Squire heels broken... Though they told they redesigned it

Yeah what's interesting is that, unlike the 16, which as far as I can tell literally has the new Jester heel, the 12's heel doesn't look exactly like any of Marker's other alpine bindings. Just based on aesthetics, it looks kinda like a hybrid between the hollow pivot point of the Squire heel and the more rounded shape of their "all-mountain" bindings, but with a 12-DIN spring. FWIW, Marker says the Duke PT 12's heel uses the "hollow linkage 2.0" whereas the newest Squire's is just regular "hollow linkage." Of course, they don't say anything about what they changed from 1.0 to 2.0, so that could be marketing BS. That said, it does look to be primarily plastic and fairly similar to the Squire overall, so there's definitely reason to be skeptical based on that binding. Guess we'll find out next year...

I've only seen the Duke PT so I can only speak for the Shifts. That being said I would strongly encourage you to stay way from the Shifts, I've seen people have countless issues from being extremely finicky after snow/ice build up to complete binding failures all together, either stick to frame bindings or go with a beefier tried and true pin binding like the Dynafit Rotation, Black Diamond Fritschi Tecton or Marker Kingpin.

Have any one been able to test the Duke Pt12? And vs Pt16 vs Shift? Will have the binding on a Rustler 9 and usually go for the STH or Pivots and often dont go for more then DIN 8-9. Due to kids at least 80% of skiing will be inbounds and are around 150lbs.

Became quite sceptic when I did see the heel of the PT12. Have several friends that have been using the F12 with several problems with pre-releases that uses the trad hollow link heel.

Seems like every test sample Marker sent out during spring was the PT16, any reason why? Also wonder why they went for the Hollow link and not the Griffon heel, just to claim weight advantage on ski uphill vs Shift!?