Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!
skiindianaAnyone who actually thinks this is welcome to stay home. I won’t judge you for your choices, don’t judge others.
This is not meant to be a pro v. anti lockdown thread, but I’m not quite sure how avoiding the spread all summer and not building immunity will help the spread be lower in the fall. If you’re one of these stay inside until a vaccine comes people, please let me donate to your grub hub gofundme
skiindianaAnyone who actually thinks this is welcome to stay home. I won’t judge you for your choices, don’t judge others.
This is not meant to be a pro v. anti lockdown thread, but I’m not quite sure how avoiding the spread all summer and not building immunity will help the spread be lower in the fall. If you’re one of these stay inside until a vaccine comes people, please let me donate to your grub hub gofundme
nmwninjartWild Mountain in MN on Saturday for just the afternoon to hike some features. Im surprised theres still enough snow.
skiindianaHonestly I am really really tired of this line of logic. 50% of deaths are people in nursing homes or hospice care. 75% are people over the age of 70. Unless I'm coughing on your grandma on the mountain I'm not killing anyone. AND if your grandma comes to the mountain that is her choice to take risks too.
We ALL take risks when we go out. We take risks going to the grocery store. We take risks driving to work. ALL of life is a trade-off of risks. No one is making YOU do anything.
If hospitals are overwhelmed, or if I am sick, I will not travel. But I'm not spending the next year listening to a bunch of self-righteous people who seem to have forgotten how personal choice works.
skiindianaPlease don’t drive. There is a small % chance that you will kill someone. The government is better at thinking for you than you are at thinking for yourself.
Nevermind the fact that the people I would be ‘endangering’ are also making a personal choice for themselves. And when hospitals have more people in them than even normal times you can cry about the talking point you heard on the latest podcasts.
If afraid, make a personal choice to stay inside. If hospitals are overwhelmed I will not travel. They are not, so I will.
skiindianaHonestly I am really really tired of this line of logic. 50% of deaths are people in nursing homes or hospice care. 75% are people over the age of 70. Unless I'm coughing on your grandma on the mountain I'm not killing anyone. AND if your grandma comes to the mountain that is her choice to take risks too.
We ALL take risks when we go out. We take risks going to the grocery store. We take risks driving to work. ALL of life is a trade-off of risks. No one is making YOU do anything.
If hospitals are overwhelmed, or if I am sick, I will not travel. But I'm not spending the next year listening to a bunch of self-righteous people who seem to have forgotten how personal choice works.
skiindianaPlease don’t drive. There is a small % chance that you will kill someone. The government is better at thinking for you than you are at thinking for yourself.
Nevermind the fact that the people I would be ‘endangering’ are also making a personal choice for themselves. And when hospitals have more people in them than even normal times you can cry about the talking point you heard on the latest podcasts.
If afraid, make a personal choice to stay inside. If hospitals are overwhelmed I will not travel. They are not, so I will.
abar.Please don't travel across the country to ski when places open up at least for the next month or so. If a bunch of people from several states away show up to tline right after it opens I guarantee you Kate Brown will just shut all ski resorts down again
OCoffeyI read that your gonna have to make reservations for tline so it shouldn’t get stupidly crowded
abar.For day tickets?
skiindianaHonestly I am really really tired of this line of logic. 50% of deaths are people in nursing homes or hospice care. 75% are people over the age of 70. Unless I'm coughing on your grandma on the mountain I'm not killing anyone. AND if your grandma comes to the mountain that is her choice to take risks too.
We ALL take risks when we go out. We take risks going to the grocery store. We take risks driving to work. ALL of life is a trade-off of risks. No one is making YOU do anything.
If hospitals are overwhelmed, or if I am sick, I will not travel. But I'm not spending the next year listening to a bunch of self-righteous people who seem to have forgotten how personal choice works.
KevskiI'm tired of people downplaying the situation because it is disproportionately deadlier in our elderly. The USA would still have the most deaths in the world if you subtracted all nursing home or hospice-care deaths from the count, and the under-70 death count would still fall 5th in the world. 18 000 people under 70 have died in under 3 months, and I bet most thought they were gonna be fine because it only kills old people
DIRTYBUBBLEIt’s almost like the US is the 3rd most populated country in the world or something.
KevskiAmericas per-capita death rate would still be higher than Canada’s even if you excluded all long term care related deaths in the USA.. Oh no some people will have the sniffles. Better shut down society indefinitely
Actually, your per-capita death rate would still be 5th highest in the world among countries with 50,000 or more cases, if you continue to exclude all American long term care related deaths (but keep those people in the population count).
I don’t want to belabour the numbers but this kind of trying to downplay severity outside of care homes is really fucking dangerous.
black@skiindiana @270on420out you guys are so selfish and short-sighted and it's beyond frustrating
if you seriously think people traveling from all over (sometimes across multiple state lines) stopping at random gas stations/restaurants/hotels/etc. to descend on small ski towns with barely any medical facilities is a good idea I'm honestly disgusted with you and the rest of our fellow NSers who upvoted you. Fuck that
DIRTYBUBBLEThe only people that are short sighted are the ones that think this lockdown is sustainable. It’s selfish to force society to tip toe around you. I don’t give a shit about people travelling to ski, I’m just tired of the holier-than-thou rhetoric
skiindianaThis is not meant to be a pro v. anti lockdown thread
john18061806I'm not even sure how that's legal in Minnesota.
BedBugDougHow do you guys still think the Rona is a big deal? Here's a few ways the statistics are being manipulated. When someone on hospice care dies from the flu, a cold, pneumonia, etc they do not count that death as a result of the disease they just got. They attribute the death to their underlying conditions that got them on hospice care in the first place, dementia, diabetes, heart failure, cancer, etc. This is NOT the case for Rona, if a hospice patient dies after having it they count the death as corovid, even if the patient has stage four cancer or some other fatal disease. There's the vast majority of "covid deaths" right there.
Heres a second way. The media, all media not just the one you choose not to like, will report a huge uptick in Rona when states begin to test more. They will say something along the lines of "Corona virus surges amid reopening of said state." When in reality all those cases were already there, they just didn't test yet. So there was no surge. Having a bunch more positive tests is actually a good thing by the way because it means the mortality rate is lower than currently thought. When everybody gets tested i'll bet there will be at least five times as many cases than previously reported which will drop the mortality rate by a factor of five, putting it right there about equal to the flu's.
Another thing that is bugging the hell out of me about this is we did this qurantine to "flatten the curve" so that hospitals were not overwhelmed. We were successful. Even during the peak, which has long since come and gone, new York City was at a 37% capacity of their hospitals. The hospital that is closest to my house has THREE PATIENTS TOTAL in the whole fukn thing. We are not going to overwhelm anything. It was a good precaution to take but is unnecessary now.
This whole thing is now a stinking pile of bullshit where power hungry politicians that have been in the public eye are he
skiindianaYes, yes, yes, yes. Everything that is said here is a fact.
Last time I will write anything is this thread other than to be stoked about spring skiing.
KevskiI’m super down with the idea of spreading stoke about mountains opening but let’s just make sure people don’t feel encouraged to travel long distances to other potentially vulnerable communities just to get some spring resort turns in.
Your skiing is simply not worth someone else dying for - no matter how rad you think you are.
skiindianaAgain I really wanted to avoid people like you telling everyone how you’ve already thought for them if it’s ok to go skiing or not. Are you not self aware enough to see you’re lecturing people? I’m not advocating breaking the law (though I still feel there is no role for a single person to decide if a disease is ‘bad’ enough that I should lose personal freedoms).
I made a thread where people could get information about where ski. Learn to keep your judgement to yourself.
People die everyday. If your logic is you could end up in a hospital or that you could transmit it, when the KNOWN hospitalization rate for those under 70 is essentially zero, then you shouldn’t ever go skiing anywhere, ever. Smug people are the worst
KevskiOf course you wanted to avoid people like me poking holes in your self-enabling version of the virus. These next months would certainly be easier if you can justify to yourself that there's no harm in going about life as usual (and that you in fact deserve to be able to). As soon as an argument includes fact it's a lecture eh? This isn't one person advising that you lose personal freedoms - these are experts around the world with hard data to back them up asking for temporary compromises. They are offering you a means to save people's lives, yet people are looking for excuses. Obviously this is tough for everyone and we're all finding ways to adapt, but when these excuses fly in the face of fact, reason or decency then be prepared to have your bullshit called. Free speech is about conversations, not about people agreeing with you.
You made a thread that could unintentionally (or intentionally but I wasn't assuming that) encourage people to travel across the country. Whether it's a fun one or not, bringing up the conversation of travel during covid is entirely on topic. A simple point that evidently ruffled some feathers.
The hospitalization rate under 75 is relatively low, yes. Not essentially zero, as it's still ~75 000 people who wouldn't otherwise be visiting the hospital, but this is why the argument is really about being considerate to others. I'm not concerned with whether YOU end up getting it, as you said your exposure is your choice. I'm concerned with people willingly risking covid for people who are already struggling during these difficult times, and not accepting that it reflects on character to willingly put skiing/travel/etc. before those people's lives. I already weighed in that most of us can ski at some capacity locally without too much concern and entirely eliminate the possibility of introducing covid to another community. No problem here.
Seems that a bunch of you are so fixated on proving that covid is no big deal and that you shouldn't have your freedoms encroached on that you're not willing to entertain the idea that life with compromises can actually still be totally dope. These compromises are not forever, and they will continue to evolve as the situation unfolds. The rate drops in the summer and nobody in your state has it? Of course travel in your state. Your neighbouring state doesn't have it either? Great, go on a trip. Cases top a thousand in the state in one day? Maybe think of what you can do locally to help get that down and don't travel across the country to Hood (who are only talking about opening because Oregon did really well with the virus). This isn't about totalitarianism, it's about thinking of others and acting as a collective. The spirit is based in kindness and the specific rules/advice will change with each of our given scenarios.
So no, a couple Americans up in arms about losing liberty (temporarily, while in the middle of a pandemic) are hardly going to encourage me to keep my judgement to myself. People unwilling to make decisions based on compassion are the worst.
DIRTYBUBBLEThe only people that are short sighted are the ones that think this lockdown is sustainable. It’s selfish to force society to tip toe around you. I don’t give a shit about people travelling to ski, I’m just tired of the holier-than-thou rhetoric
skiindianaAgain I really wanted to avoid people like you telling everyone how you’ve already thought for them if it’s ok to go skiing or not. Are you not self aware enough to see you’re lecturing people? I’m not advocating breaking the law (though I still feel there is no role for a single person to decide if a disease is ‘bad’ enough that I should lose personal freedoms).
I made a thread where people could get information about where ski. Learn to keep your judgement to yourself.
People die everyday. If your logic is you could end up in a hospital or that you could transmit it, when the KNOWN hospitalization rate for those under 70 is essentially zero, then you shouldn’t ever go skiing anywhere, ever. Smug people are the worst
JAHBRADORYou guys are the fucking worst.
You do do realise that personal liberty and freedom ESPECIALLY in the US is a giant facade, right?.
JAHBRADOR- you believe that all Americans should have personal freedom.
-that means that everyone has the right To leave their house and go about normal life.
-people who are less ‘at risk’ leave their house during a nationwide, extremely infectious pandemic, going about normal life and interacting with others.
- people who are ‘at risk’ are too scared to leave their homes for fear of infection.
-people are having their freedom taken from them for a longer period of time that necessary as others are exercising their freedom.
- so by exercising your freedom, you are taking away others freedom and unnecessarily prolonging their lack of freedom.
JAHBRADORFUCK YOUR FREEDOM, STOP BEING SELFISH AND STAY THE FUCK INSIDE.
.
JAHBRADORLook at Germany and NZ. Everyone obeyed government guidelines and hey ho, 6weeks after lockdown they are almost fully back open for business.
JAHBRADOR“it only affects 70+ demographic” - ya maybe it does. But do you think these people deserve to die?
Also, there are tens of thousands of people from every demographic that were battling illnesses (cancer etc.) before any of this started who are immunosuppressed and now unable to leave their house. Even if they got a whiff of COViD it would be a death sentence.
JAHBRADORthis is a hard time for everyone but honestly it’s just pathetic to see how weak some peoples characters are.
DIRTYBUBBLERead my lips: I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT FREEDOM OR RIGHTS
There are tons of legitimate logistical concerns that pro-lockdown people love to brush off.
Do you not understand why the lockdown was implemented? Do you not understand that the lockdown is supposed to be a temporary emergency measure in order to prepare the nation's healthcare system? Do you not understand that this lockdown cannot stop the virus, it can only slow the spread of it?
You know that the X-axis for the graphs/models used for the death toll represents duration of time right? This means that the lockdown literally fucking prolongs the duration of the pandemic.
Fuck your mindless virtue signaling. Everyone is being selfish in this situation. You want businesses to close so you can be safe from the big scary virus that 99% of people survive? Guess what? Thats selfish.
Look at Sweden where they have no lockdown and are doing better than every other country.
Then maybe those people should stay inside ? Their needs can be accommodated safely. The needs of the entire working populace cannot.
Its fucking pathetic to see how indoctrinated you are into this cult of fear and shame. This doesn't have to be a hard time for everyone especially when we have already flattened the curve. Get off your high-horse. Stay home all you want I don't give a fuck, but don't force me to.
JAHBRADORThe more people that go back to normal life. The faster the second wave of the virus will come. The second wave coming back means that the country goes into lockdown again. Another lockdown means that they enconomy will be shut down. How about taking time to organise a sustainable way to keep the curve flat but also to keep the economy ticking over. This is more realistic than just allowing everyone to go back to normal like it’s all over, which it is not..
Does it ever cross your mind that the rest of the world is accepting this situation as how it is, but some American’s are throwing all their toys out the pram like a spoiled brat because they aren’t getting their way. I see that the arrogance is finally catching up to you.
JAHBRADOR. “Lockdown slows down the spread of the virus” the opposite of that being that no lockdown increases the spread of the virus. This then takes us back to square one. Once you realise that this is how life if going to be until a vaccine is developed,
DIRTYBUBBLE.
if we are going to have a second wave then why the fuck should we stay locked down? Does it not make sense to just burn through this so we can achieve immunity and get it over with? The burden of proof is not on me, the burden of proof is on you.
Ok so you have no idea how herd immunity works.
oh and what happens if vaccines fail or are never developed? What happens if this becomes endemic and we have this shit happening every other season. Im not staying locked down for endless months just because your fat grandma might finally kick the bucket. That is fucking retarded.
DIRTYBUBBLE.
if we are going to have a second wave then why the fuck should we stay locked down? Does it not make sense to just burn through this so we can achieve immunity and get it over with? The burden of proof is not on me, the burden of proof is on you.
Ok so you have no idea how herd immunity works.
oh and what happens if vaccines fail or are never developed? What happens if this becomes endemic and we have this shit happening every other season. Im not staying locked down for endless months just because your fat grandma might finally kick the bucket. That is fucking retarded.
KevskiI don't know where you're learning about herd immunity, but if you're really suggesting that 224 Million people get Covid in the USA before a vaccine is developed I don't really know what to tell ya. You understand that in a best circumstance (not overwhelming health system) that would implicate 13 Million deaths? If you "burn through it" that number would certainly be higher as resources fail to keep up.
To entertain you, if 100 000 people got it per day (four times the current daily rate to suggest a large number of untested cases) it would still take over 6 years to reach 70% of the American population required to consider herd immunity. This assumes that people stay immune for that long, that recovering from one strain protects you from all strains, and that the virus wouldn't continue to mutate - none of which are sound assumptions.
So the responsible thing will continue to be to limit your impact as appropriate until a vaccine can introduce herd immunity without the associated death toll and sickness. Like every other country is doing. Life will go on and people will adapt.
The UK played around with encouraging herd immunity early on and scaled back almost immediately because it was a huge disaster and they are still picking up the pieces.
Anyways, stay safe and take care of your neighbours. Happy shreds. I'm out.
