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Should ski sponsors have contracts that last for the life of the sponsored pro?

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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
I feel like its so not worth it to try to make money as a pro skier (unless youre gay), because after the 5-10 years your pro, you stack up about as much money as you would working the cash register for walmart. And after the time at walmart, you get promoted and earn more as you age. With skiing, most pros earn less and less as they age.

elementality is like the village gingerkid now that people have heard how shittily element treated its pros. Elements trademark saying was to write the name of the pro skater and then say “element for life” below it on their pro deck as if they were going to sponsor their pros for life. But in reality element shitcanned its aging skaters and screwed them out of anything close to reasonable earnings.

I think its shitty that awesome
skiers cant make enough off sponsorship dollars anymore. Its almost as if the only kids who can afford the ski pro life are kids of wealthy parents. Thats the dream i guess, having your parents buy you a ski in ski out condo at breck so you can just focus on your skiing. But its kind of sad that the message from ski sponsors given to the kids of non rich parents seems to be “forget about making a living out of this kids, its just a hobby to get your ass laid”.

i dont understand how football basketball and baseball teams can each split among its players about 200 million per year, while in the skiing scene theres probably a one or 2 hundred thousand each ski sponsor divides up in between their athletes every year.

are my numbers off or am i in the right ballpark?

anyways, i think sponsorships should be for life as long as the pro doesnt get like 3 dwis or something stupid.

**This thread was edited on Apr 26th 2020 at 5:20:19pm
Apr 26 2020 5:19PM
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highpeak
Posts: 426 - Karma: 2,209
Well for starters the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. each make millions off advertising revenue, tv contracts, ticket sales, etc. whereas a ski company who sponsors people, say Armada or Line, is simply not making a fraction of that money and can't afford to pay nearly as much. It's nobodies fault, skiing is just a niche sport, freesking is a niche within a niche, and millions of people watch mainstream pro sports.

Additionally, it's financially irrational for a company to pay a skier for a lifetime if they may only be a "pro" for say 10-15 years. That's like paying your walmart employee example for a lifetime if they only work the cash register for 10 years. It's harsh, but true.

I wish there was more money in skiing, my favorite athletes are all skiers, but it's unrealistic sadly.
Apr 26 2020 5:26PM
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little1337
Posts: 8241 - Karma: 47,867
Newschoolers already owns my life

**This post was edited on Apr 26th 2020 at 5:42:32pm
Apr 26 2020 5:27PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
highpeakWell for starters the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. each make millions off advertising revenue, tv contracts, ticket sales, etc. whereas a ski company who sponsors people, say Armada or Line, is simply not making a fraction of that money and can't afford to pay nearly as much. It's nobodies fault, skiing is just a niche sport, freesking is a niche within a niche, and millions of people watch mainstream pro sports.

Additionally, it's financially irrational for a company to pay a skier for a lifetime if they may only be a "pro" for say 10-15 years. That's like paying your walmart employee example for a lifetime if they only work the cash register for 10 years. It's harsh, but true.

I wish there was more money in skiing, my favorite athletes are all skiers, but it's unrealistic sadly.

Yeah. Look at shawn white though? Do you think his worth is due to him being a great skateboarder too?

i dont understand why so many more people watch team sports than sports like skiing. Do you think skiing could do better by having orage masters style team contests?
Apr 26 2020 5:33PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,578
DolanReloadedYeah. Look at shawn white though? Do you think his worth is due to him being a great skateboarder too?

i dont understand why so many more people watch team sports than sports like skiing. Do you think skiing could do better by having orage masters style team contests?


Ask a random person who shaun white is and they know. Ask a random person who Alex Hall is and they have no clue. Thats the difference. Its not how good you, its how marketable you are, unfortunately.
Apr 26 2020 5:43PM
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Casey
Posts: 7849 - Karma: 24,324
Yeah I mean I hate to say it but like, the internet moves so fast and there are so many people that are good it’s next to impossible to stand out for more than one clip, let alone have a career. And literally no one outside of a small group of skiers cares if you ski at all, or can huck 900 back flips off the moon, or anything.

Obviously everyone’s dream is to have someone else pay them to go skiing, but like increasingly it seems like people are saying why would I do that when random kid X on Instagram gets 5 million views for bumping off a park bench and tagging my brand, what’s the point of investing in anyone or hosting events or doing anything?
Apr 26 2020 6:07PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
CaseyYeah I mean I hate to say it but like, the internet moves so fast and there are so many people that are good it’s next to impossible to stand out for more than one clip, let alone have a career. And literally no one outside of a small group of skiers cares if you ski at all, or can huck 900 back flips off the moon, or anything.

Obviously everyone’s dream is to have someone else pay them to go skiing, but like increasingly it seems like people are saying why would I do that when random kid X on Instagram gets 5 million views for bumping off a park bench and tagging my brand, what’s the point of investing in anyone or hosting events or doing anything?


God dammit.


you anti-trolled me
Apr 26 2020 8:12PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4807 - Karma: -647
Shut the fuck up dogfart.
Apr 26 2020 8:27PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
PeppermillRenoShut the fuck up dogfart.

What did he say? Im assuming it got deleted?
Apr 26 2020 9:03PM
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9363 - Karma: 68,420
Serious question here, how did pros make so much before off sponsors? Was the money really all coming from cable TV deals?
Apr 27 2020 12:41AM
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Casey
Posts: 7849 - Karma: 24,324
DolanReloadedGod dammit.


you anti-trolled me


If it’s any consolation, I didn’t even really read your post I just assumed what you were going to say from the first two sentences.
Apr 27 2020 12:53AM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
CaseyIf it’s any consolation, I didn’t even really read your post I just assumed what you were going to say from the first two sentences.

I do the same.



It varies tho depending on how high i am
Apr 27 2020 3:44AM
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JmckR
Posts: 1280 - Karma: 5,880
DolanReloadedi dont understand how football basketball and baseball teams can each split among its players about 200 million per year, while in the skiing scene theres probably a one or 2 hundred thousand each ski sponsor divides up in between their athletes every year.

If you still don't understand this then you're asking the wrong questions.
Apr 27 2020 9:29AM
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404404
Posts: 11358 - Karma: 21,034
I have to send dozens of texts and emails to get a sponsor to pay me sometimes. I have had invoices unpaid for 10 months. So right now I rather just have a sponsor pay me on time so I can pay taxes, insurance, electric, gas, and all the stuff I HAVE to pay on time or get fucked.

But thanks to all the sponsors who pay quick and with no hassle! PitViper and Kulkea 4life!
Apr 27 2020 11:22AM
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404404
Posts: 11358 - Karma: 21,034
I have to send dozens of texts and emails to get a sponsor to pay me sometimes. I have had invoices unpaid for 10 months. So right now I rather just have a sponsor pay me on time so I can pay taxes, insurance, electric, gas, and all the stuff I HAVE to pay on time or get fucked.

But thanks to all the sponsors who pay quick and with no hassle! PitViper and Kulkea 4life!
Apr 27 2020 11:22AM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,578
WormracerI have to send dozens of texts and emails to get a sponsor to pay me sometimes. I have had invoices unpaid for 10 months. So right now I rather just have a sponsor pay me on time so I can pay taxes, insurance, electric, gas, and all the stuff I HAVE to pay on time or get fucked.

But thanks to all the sponsors who pay quick and with no hassle! PitViper and Kulkea 4life!


Yikes, that's dumb and kinda surprising for me at least. I always imagined someone like you who is such a prominent face and voice in the ski community would be high enough priority to be paid on time.
Apr 27 2020 11:49AM
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k_tivnan
Posts: 84 - Karma: 463
DolanReloadedYeah. Look at shawn white though? Do you think his worth is due to him being a great skateboarder too?

i dont understand why so many more people watch team sports than sports like skiing. Do you think skiing could do better by having orage masters style team contests?


The reason that skiing doesn’t get as much publicity is because it is so niche. It’s not very accessible to a large amount of people in the country financially and through location. It sucks but that’s the truth. Skiing just doesn’t have the exposure and fan base that other sports have so they can’t pay athletes anywhere close to the same salaries.
Apr 27 2020 1:23PM
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Shl
Posts: 21 - Karma: 28
But then golf is even more niche but pro golfers earn a lot of money.
Speaking of football etc, you can play it everywhere on planet and all year round, that’s probably why it’s so popular.
Apr 27 2020 1:32PM
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dan4060
Posts: 1458 - Karma: 847
r00kieAsk a random person who shaun white is and they know. Ask a random person who Alex Hall is and they have no clue. Thats the difference. Its not how good you, its how marketable you are, unfortunately.

This.

Shaun White is the extreme exception. The vast majority of action sports athletes are not well known.

Skiing is a sport that is really more about participation. The vast majority of the people you see on the hill, on a weekend groomer at least, are not serious about it. They don't follow it at all, they just go ski once or twice a year, if that, for fun and as a novelty.

With the major team sports it is more about watching than playing. Not many people watch skiing other than serious skiers. That is a very small market.

I would love it if things were different, but it makes absolutely no sense to sponsor these guys for life from the perspective of the company.
Apr 27 2020 2:21PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2828 - Karma: 5,373
ShlBut then golf is even more niche but pro golfers earn a lot of money.
Speaking of football etc, you can play it everywhere on planet and all year round, that’s probably why it’s so popular.

I would say skiing is more niche than golf.
Golf can be played by anyone who can swing a club, 9 months out of the year in a majority of the US (talking about in the US), for around less than $50 a game per person, and couple clubs plus balls, bags, other goods for $300.

Skiing with out some type of pass, your paying a hundred a day just to get up the hill in most places. If you figure in the other stuff like gear, getting to the hill, food, and lodging, it a lot more.
Apr 27 2020 4:20PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51667 - Karma: 162,588
Do you care about the answer to any of the questions you ask or are you just trying to think of ideas to make more sg threads?

Honestly curious
Apr 27 2020 5:03PM
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9363 - Karma: 68,420
@1:32

https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/932054/SWITCH-SKIING-WORLD-RECORD---Quentin-Ladame-Skis-Backwards-into-History
dan4060This.

Shaun White is the extreme exception. The vast majority of action sports athletes are not well known.

Skiing is a sport that is really more about participation. The vast majority of the people you see on the hill, on a weekend groomer at least, are not serious about it. They don't follow it at all, they just go ski once or twice a year, if that, for fun and as a novelty.

With the major team sports it is more about watching than playing. Not many people watch skiing other than serious skiers. That is a very small market.

I would love it if things were different, but it makes absolutely no sense to sponsor these guys for life from the perspective of the company.
Apr 27 2020 5:08PM
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Shl
Posts: 21 - Karma: 28
Whoa, I didn’t know that skiing (esp. passes) are so expensive in States...
50KalI would say skiing is more niche than golf.
Golf can be played by anyone who can swing a club, 9 months out of the year in a majority of the US (talking about in the US), for around less than $50 a game per person, and couple clubs plus balls, bags, other goods for $300.

Skiing with out some type of pass, your paying a hundred a day just to get up the hill in most places. If you figure in the other stuff like gear, getting to the hill, food, and lodging, it a lot more.
Apr 27 2020 5:10PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2828 - Karma: 5,373
ShlWhoa, I didn’t know that skiing (esp. passes) are so expensive in States...


What’s the cost for a day at a good mountain where your at? And just for comparison a season pass?
Apr 27 2020 7:20PM
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GeorgeMadison
Posts: 144 - Karma: 1,147
ShlBut then golf is even more niche but pro golfers earn a lot of money.
Speaking of football etc, you can play it everywhere on planet and all year round, that’s probably why it’s so popular.


Idk if there are more people who golf or ski, but generally people who golf seem to be pretty serious about it. They are likely watching a lot of golf on tv and following pro golfing. On the other hand, most people who go skiing only go a couple times per year just for fun. It is highly unlikely that they are watching any pro skiing or following it in any way. That's why even though there might be a similar amount of people who ski and play golf there is a lot more money in golf and a lot of it is going to the golfers.
Apr 29 2020 1:16PM
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bananabrains
Posts: 133 - Karma: 390
Are there any freestyle ski competitions that are widely televised or streamed online? The skiers could potentially benefit from coverage similar to what red bull do with the Downhill MTB world cup races. Gwin was pulling in a mill a year at one point.
Apr 30 2020 3:05AM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2180 - Karma: 1,337
Seeing how were on the topic......... Are today's top tier ski athletes, x-games every year or killer segment skiers making as much as they did back in the day?
ie. are the "colby stevensons" and "Alex hall's" putting money in the bank like Simon Dumont's and Pete Olenicks were?
Apr 30 2020 2:11PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9292 - Karma: 61,002
RusticlesSeeing how were on the topic......... Are today's top tier ski athletes, x-games every year or killer segment skiers making as much as they did back in the day?
ie. are the "colby stevensons" and "Alex hall's" putting money in the bank like Simon Dumont's and Pete Olenicks were?


from what i know, in a way it's kind of the same split there always was. the dudes with red bull helmets and car company sponsors and shit are doing well and below that it's really hit or miss

i'm not claiming this is the truth, i only hear what i do and i don't go out of my way to ask people about their finances lol, but it seems like nowadays skiing is a little more well known so it's more possible to have those big non-skiing sponsors etc, but park skiing isn't getting as much love from the actual ski brands these days. so i wouldn't be surprised if the purse that comprises all the park skiers' salaries at a given company isn't as big (not that it was ever too big, annual sponsorship salaries for mid range park skiers have always been meager)
Apr 30 2020 3:05PM
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e.littt
Posts: 414 - Karma: 2,348
bananabrainsAre there any freestyle ski competitions that are widely televised or streamed online? The skiers could potentially benefit from coverage similar to what red bull do with the Downhill MTB world cup races. Gwin was pulling in a mill a year at one point.


I guess the equivalent would be the folks on the FWT, or doing the FIS worldcup stops. But I feel like mountain biking is the same deal as freeskiing where only the top 1% of pros are making serious money off of purely competing and sponsorship deals. I wouldn't be surprised if most folks who are on the world cup DH circuit and not in the top 20 have a job and try to do the biking thing as a side-gig (in terms of income).
May 2 2020 12:01AM
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bananabrains
Posts: 133 - Karma: 390
e.litttI guess the equivalent would be the folks on the FWT, or doing the FIS worldcup stops. But I feel like mountain biking is the same deal as freeskiing where only the top 1% of pros are making serious money off of purely competing and sponsorship deals. I wouldn't be surprised if most folks who are on the world cup DH circuit and not in the top 20 have a job and try to do the biking thing as a side-gig (in terms of income).


Yeah you are probably right. There was one guy who was racing quite well last year who was also managing a restaurant fulltime.
May 2 2020 11:20PM
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PsychicMigration
Posts: 2099 - Karma: 10,535
Team sports have much more draw and hype around local and city teams that people can rally around not some kid from vail.
May 2 2020 11:29PM
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Young_patty
Posts: 3282 - Karma: 37,945
-Sponsor: you need to land that triple if you wanna win this comp and get your bonus

-72 year old nick goeper: please... no more...

-VOKL: but the contract...

-72 year old nick goeper: *cries softly and drops in*
May 4 2020 2:31AM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
Young_patty-Sponsor: you need to land that triple if you wanna win this comp and get your bonus

-72 year old nick goeper: please... no more...

-VOKL: but the contract...

-72 year old nick goeper: *cries softly and drops in*

Colby stevenson and even mceachran already both made goepper look like an old man at this years xgames. You dont have to wait till hes 72.



like all acrobatic sports, skiing is becoming a sport where light, flexible, thin hipped teenagers constantly pwn the shit out of stiff jointed beer bellied 20-30 yr olds




alcohol is such a shitty drug.
May 4 2020 2:57AM
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Rusticles
Posts: 2180 - Karma: 1,337
SofaKingSickfrom what i know, in a way it's kind of the same split there always was. the dudes with red bull helmets and car company sponsors and shit are doing well and below that it's really hit or miss

i'm not claiming this is the truth, i only hear what i do and i don't go out of my way to ask people about their finances lol, but it seems like nowadays skiing is a little more well known so it's more possible to have those big non-skiing sponsors etc, but park skiing isn't getting as much love from the actual ski brands these days. so i wouldn't be surprised if the purse that comprises all the park skiers' salaries at a given company isn't as big (not that it was ever too big, annual sponsorship salaries for mid range park skiers have always been meager)


After listening to dumonts podcast it seems like the "top park skiers" back in the day got paid. Starting to think that with most "action sports" social media following is key and not necessarily winnings and talent.
Sep 23 2020 4:38PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,099
theabortionatorDo you care about the answer to any of the questions you ask or are you just trying to think of ideas to make more sg threads?

Honestly curious

I cant have both?

but to be honest i always read what ppl post in my threads.



its the dolan guarantee
Sep 24 2020 9:57PM
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