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What makes a good ski shop?

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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
Looking to eventually open my own ski shop and want some input.
As an employee of a ski shop, I have a general idea of what sells, but I want to know from people outside of my city.
What brands do you wish your local shop sold, why do you keep going to the same shop, or maybe any horror stories you guys have of the local ski shop.

I really like the idea of selling smaller, local brands.

But let me know what you guys think, I'm open to ideas.

Also link your favorite shop's website so I can take a look. Thanks!

**This thread was edited on Apr 25th 2020 at 9:52:28pm
Apr 25 2020 8:51PM
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r00kie
Posts: 5238 - Karma: 59,586
I know nothing about a running a shop but as a customer the service side is everything. Getting a good pre-season tune or repair is what gets me in the door. Hardgoods can be found online, likely for cheaper to. But if through good service I develop a good relationship with the shop I am much more likely to also buy gear there. Service is what will get in the door the first time. Good service gets me there a second time. A good relationship sells me new gear.
Apr 25 2020 9:13PM
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CHU-TANG_CLAN
Posts: 2103 - Karma: 2,910
Customer service. The ski shop where I was able to come in chat with the staff and owners and just shoot the shit with them and also knew I would be getting good advice when needed on gear. 100% willing to give extra funds and continue to spend money on ski shops that treat customers like old friends
Apr 25 2020 10:06PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7860 - Karma: 22,350
If I see smaller independent brands I think "these guys know what's up"
i.e. ON3P, Moment, Icelantic, Skevik, Flylow, Strafe, Trew.
Also needs to be a good range of boots so there is something for all different foot shapes.
If I was getting poles, I'd always choose telescoping.
I feel like having jigs even for bindings you don't sell would be useful since people will inevitably come in with them to get mounted.
When I was younger, and even still, free/cheap stickers would get me psyched.
I have trouble finding 1. compact things of sunscreen for spring touring 2. hardware like T-bolts for boots. It would be sick for those things to be available in a shop. Also standard tools/multi tools
I would usually buy lightly used or demo skis. Also I always thought it would be cool if you could trade in a lightly used pair of skis with the value going toward a new pair.
The best thing about a shop is it can be a community hub where you can hang out and have a chat without pressure to purchase anything. If there are movie premieres, art shows, mini ramp, anything like that it makes it a really welcoming place!
Apr 25 2020 10:56PM
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smh
Posts: 410 - Karma: 2,144
Shop dog
Apr 25 2020 11:16PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
This is top of the priority list. Shop i work at doesn’t have one and it sucks
tyler1719Shop dog
Apr 25 2020 11:17PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
skiP.E.I.If I see smaller independent brands I think "these guys know what's up"
i.e. ON3P, Moment, Icelantic, Skevik, Flylow, Strafe, Trew.

I’d actually love to carry ON3P when i open a shop. I’d probably stick to the east coast, and ON3P doesn’t have any dealers on the east coast which would be pretty cool. Also i’d imagine it could bring a lot of people in.
Apr 25 2020 11:41PM
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little1337
Posts: 8283 - Karma: 48,712
PoubtvI’d actually love to carry ON3P when i open a shop. I’d probably stick to the east coast, and ON3P doesn’t have any dealers on the east coast which would be pretty cool. Also i’d imagine it could bring a lot of people in.


Where are you looking to open one?
Apr 25 2020 11:43PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
little1337Where are you looking to open one?

Somewhere i the northeast, NH or VT most likely. Currently employed in Southern NH
Apr 26 2020 12:19AM
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Emma_Watson
Posts: 4491 - Karma: 6,797
PoubtvSomewhere i the northeast, NH or VT most likely. Currently employed in Southern NH


Putnam's
Apr 26 2020 1:36AM
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TheClap.
Posts: 21674 - Karma: 4,188
Not charging $100+ for a mount is all I really care about
Apr 26 2020 8:33AM
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.nasty
Posts: 10585 - Karma: 11,216
skiP.E.I.If I see smaller independent brands I think "these guys know what's up"
i.e. ON3P, Moment, Icelantic, Skevik, Flylow, Strafe, Trew.
Also needs to be a good range of boots so there is something for all different foot shapes.
If I was getting poles, I'd always choose telescoping.
I feel like having jigs even for bindings you don't sell would be useful since people will inevitably come in with them to get mounted.
When I was younger, and even still, free/cheap stickers would get me psyched.
I have trouble finding 1. compact things of sunscreen for spring touring 2. hardware like T-bolts for boots. It would be sick for those things to be available in a shop. Also standard tools/multi tools
I would usually buy lightly used or demo skis. Also I always thought it would be cool if you could trade in a lightly used pair of skis with the value going toward a new pair.
The best thing about a shop is it can be a community hub where you can hang out and have a chat without pressure to purchase anything. If there are movie premieres, art shows, mini ramp, anything like that it makes it a really welcoming place!


The only thing I'll add to this is careful with too many smaller more boutique brands. I manage a freeskiing shop and if we only carried those brands you listed (we do carry a couple of them) we'd be out of business real quick. As cool as those brands are and as much as I like their products, you won't make it very far without having at least some of the more basic brands. However, it's pretty easy to appease the masses while still having "cooler" skis as well, i.e. brands like Armada, Atomic, Volkl, etc.

For OP, find the balance of having those small brands that will attract customers like you'd find here on NS, to brands/products that will attract the masses. Although you can't always get every segment of the market, here in Breck we will still always get beginner people walking in asking about brands like Helly Hansen, Spyder (although spyder is at least trying to get back into freeskiing at least), etc. Which then it just depends on how good of sales people you have to go beyond just saying "sorry we do not" to "sorry we do not, BUT we do have some very comparable products".

For the OP, get a good sales staff that goes above and beyond and you will be rewarded. There's so many online tools for training your sales staff that you can take advantage of. The best piece is always the first impression customers have in relation to the level of customer service.
Apr 26 2020 10:27AM
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JAlps
Posts: 555 - Karma: 1,939
About the brands: as it has been said going to boutiquey can hurt sales in the long run, and often times the "trendy" brand won't necessarily be the best one for your shop. It all comes down to catering to 2-3 target demographics in your shop. Volkl and Kastle literally sells itself to 40/50 year old guys who just want "the best thing", Faction might not sell well to your park crowd because their marketing has made it so the majority of their sales are online..... every brand is a bit different and changes shop to shop. More than anything when lining up a buy you need to ask yourself a) who you WANT your shop to be for b) who will actually be coming to it.

Good customer service is a given, but what I would like to see more than anything out of a shop these days is some next level community involvement. With the appearance of insta theres ironically been a disappearance in things like shop teams and group rides in lieu of a digital marketing approach. It's way cheaper to buy $20 in insta ads and instantly "reach" your audience than it is to organize local events, but my dream would be to see more shops that emphasize grassroots community involvement as a means of creating a sustainable and loyal customer base.
Apr 26 2020 12:28PM
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GKS
Posts: 372 - Karma: 2,940
non shitty mounts and free stickers
Apr 26 2020 12:49PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
GKSnon shitty mounts


With the check in process I'd want to have a selection for where you want the mount.
Informed technicians can help with this, rather than the do or die recommended guys
Apr 26 2020 12:51PM
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Kyguyy
Posts: 582 - Karma: 6,401
Sell skis that other shops don’t like ON3Ps, Vishnus, Majesty, Jskis, etc.
Apr 26 2020 12:59PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
KyguyySell skis that other shops don’t like ON3Ps, Vishnus, Majesty, Jskis, etc.


Only issue with small brands is some only sell online (Vishnu, J, Moment).
However there might be other ways to help out smaller brands apart from selling them.
At the shop I work at I'm not talking to someone to sell them a ski we have on the wall, Im there to recommend the best possible ski for them. My boss hates me sometimes because of this, but it keeps them coming back and more times than not they buy a binding and sometimes a boot from us.
Apr 26 2020 1:01PM
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SnowshoeThompson
Posts: 1095 - Karma: 1,433
Don’t charge 80 dollars for a mount, have a surplus of stickers for the youngsters and maintain that wax/ski shop smell

**This post was edited on Apr 26th 2020 at 1:11:52pm
Apr 26 2020 1:08PM
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GKS
Posts: 372 - Karma: 2,940
KyguyySell skis that other shops don’t like ON3Ps, Vishnus, Majesty, Jskis, etc.

pretty sure jlev is adamant about only selling his skis online
Apr 26 2020 1:15PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7860 - Karma: 22,350
Another thing is display: instead of just having your whole inventory of 100 skis leaning against the wall, having single skis on a dedicated display is great- looks cleaner and invites the customer to spend more time looking at a ski in detail. I've only seen this in a few shops and I always prefer it.
Apr 26 2020 1:57PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37689 - Karma: 123,814
a clean operation, good employees that are stoked and very knowledgeable and arent just trying to sell you shit, good service, good shop. Also looking out for local shredders. Not to mention if you can get involved with a freestyle or ski team/ski club of sorts, you can get a good amount of business through that. I know racer kids and families are a hot-button issue for NS but theres a ton of ski shops that get a ton of business from those people

**This post was edited on Apr 26th 2020 at 2:05:43pm
Apr 26 2020 2:02PM
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wyld_stallyns
Posts: 475 - Karma: 4,629
PoubtvSomewhere i the northeast, NH or VT most likely. Currently employed in Southern NH


Aye if/when you get round to opening the shop, hmu. Live in central NH, have some ski shop experience and no plans for my future
Apr 26 2020 4:13PM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5131 - Karma: 52,407
we all love small brands here, but we are not the average ski buyer. Most people ski on front side carvers. I think that's a reality you need to face.

Here's the thing: it doesn't matter if there are 100 pairs of carving skis on the wall and only a few twin tips, or 100 pairs of cool niche brands and only a couple carving skis. Sell what you can actually sell, not what you think should sell cause it's cool.

What really matters is this: when one of the local park guys or a digger comes into the shop with their bindings all fucked up and broken, buckles falling off boots, edge cracks, etc...you can fix their shit. When it comes to supporting your local scene, I think that being a good tech and just understanding how park skiing works goes a long way. Cause at the end of the day, a lot of park skiers will probably buy their shit online, but they can't get their shit fixed online. That's where you should focus IMO.
Apr 27 2020 1:16PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
pinkcamo1000when one of the local park guys or a digger comes into the shop with their bindings all fucked up and broken, buckles falling off boots, edge cracks, etc...you can fix their shit. When it comes to supporting your local scene, I think that being a good tech and just understanding how park skiing works goes a long way.


At the shop i work at now I've been trying to help out those types of people (park detunes, epoxy, ptex, wax all that shit).

The owner of the shop I work at is the exact opposite of me. His shop feels like its stuck in 2010, selling strictly Atomic Nordica and Blizzard, with K2 and Line filling the gaps. I agree that catering to everyone is a must, however ski shops won't last if theyre not unique.
Apr 27 2020 1:23PM
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Young_patty
Posts: 3296 - Karma: 38,241
- good customer service that won't BS you or sell you unnecessary gear

-good selection: big brands, small brands, local brands, foreign brands, a store should know what brands are quality and carry a variety of them for all types of people (peep the local hills to see whats really selling)

- Timely tuning and repairs: Fuck you Hoigaards, I'll never wait 20+ days for a binding mount or repair when my mans at Pinewskis do it in 2 or less days.

- TV's set up that just play constant loops of whatever ski/snowboard/skateboard edits that are sick: bonus points for local based ones

- Cool dude behind the counter that I can chat with about sport I'm in there for- knowledgeable staff go along way but cool dudes that know how to hangout and help go even further.
Apr 27 2020 1:50PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
Young_patty- Timely tuning and repairs

This is huge. Nobody wants to wait 4-5 days for a tune that takes 20 minutes to complete MAX. Motivated staff can help with this, as well as pizza and beer. If only my boss now would order some pizzas and get us to crank through 20 full tunes and repairs for an hour or two after hours.
Apr 27 2020 2:05PM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5131 - Karma: 52,407
PoubtvThe owner of the shop I work at is the exact opposite of me. His shop feels like its stuck in 2010, selling strictly Atomic Nordica and Blizzard, with K2 and Line filling the gaps. I agree that catering to everyone is a must, however ski shops won't last if theyre not unique.


I'm not convinced ski shops won't last unless they're "unique." Look at the skis most people are riding at the mountain - it's not the wide array of shapes, sizes, and colors you see in the terrain park or on a powder day. It's all skis that have a similar FS carver shape and highlighter graphics that look like a computer designed them. Think about how dads have flocked to very specific ski models, they clearly don't give a fuck about being unique.

I would also like to say that when you're an employee, it's very easy to say "If I was running this place it would be way better and cooler and more successful." While this might be true, it might also be totally untrue. Running a business is completely different from being an employee. You show up to work, do your best, and get paid regardless of what happens. You can recommend a customer buys a ski out of store cause you will still get paid at the end of the day. On the other had, if your boss doesn't sell all of the skis off the wall, he is fucked and will have to sell them at a reduced price next year, which is essentially a bunch of work just to not lose money. That could mean a much smaller salary and no ski vacations for him next season.
Apr 27 2020 2:14PM
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kmfoley2
Posts: 127 - Karma: 277
shop bong and skate 3
Apr 27 2020 3:12PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
pinkcamo1000I'm not convinced ski shops won't last unless they're "unique."

By unique I mostly meant with other things besides skis, such as the services offered, the general experience when in the store. And I get that I am the employee but I feel like the owner is missing out on so much opportunity. He’s also been beyond rude to many regular customers which ultimately hurts the business. And he’s also 80, which props to him for coming to work every single day but he’s very out of touch with the direction that skiing is going these days.
Apr 27 2020 3:43PM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5131 - Karma: 52,407
PoubtvBy unique I mostly meant with other things besides skis, such as the services offered, the general experience when in the store. And I get that I am the employee but I feel like the owner is missing out on so much opportunity. He’s also been beyond rude to many regular customers which ultimately hurts the business. And he’s also 80, which props to him for coming to work every single day but he’s very out of touch with the direction that skiing is going these days.

holy shit 80?? I was imagining some gen x dude in his late 40s. That changes a lot honestly, sounds like he needs to retire
Apr 27 2020 4:06PM
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Butterytips69
Posts: 727 - Karma: 8,131
If you have space outside set up a couple rails for product testing
Apr 27 2020 6:37PM
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WestieBogan
Posts: 50 - Karma: 87
The main thing is to act in a businesslike way. Lifestyle businesses like this are often treated more like a hobby or popularity contest than a way to feed the kids, so make sure you approach it like work. The ONLY reason to be in business is to make money. If that's not your reason, don't do it. If you don't think like that you might find that one day you owe the bank $200K and you're going bankrupt. You would be amazed at how fast costs can add up in a retail business.

Start with your cashflow projection. If the numbers don't work you are well and truly fucked even before you've opened the doors. You will need a slush fund to cover unexpected expenses - say 20% of your initial estimate of opening costs.

Overheads take the fun out of being in business. You need to be sure that you can manage the stress of paying rent, utilities, insurance, wages every month.

Consider your location - are you going to be a destination retailer or rely on passing foot traffic. Destination means more money needs to be spent on advertising so people know where you are, while prime retail with good foot-traffic means your rent will be higher.
What/who is your competition? High competition means your margins will be forced down - which can really screw with your cashflow forecasts. Established shops are likely to try and force you out of business by having sales etc, and they can probably afford it better than you can. Are any other people planning to open in your area? You need to know that.
What are you trade terms - how long before you need to pay your suppliers. Extended credit is attractive, but can fuck you if you're not careful.
Staff is a perennially moving target. They need to be honest and reliable, and you can't pay them too much just to be a good guy.
What happens if something goes wrong? You need insurance to protect yourself and the business from legal claims.

And that's just for starters. I know I'm being a downer, but you need to get into this with your eyes wide open. I know from experience that retail is a shitty business to be in. So do you really want to be selling things, or is there another way to be involved in the industry? Maybe open a workshop - maybe you could be the local binding fitting agent for people who buy Moments, J Skis etc online and need mounting?

Lots to think about. Good luck.
Apr 27 2020 7:27PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
WestieBoganMaybe open a workshop - maybe you could be the local binding fitting agent for people who buy Moments, J Skis etc online and need mounting?

Lots to think about. Good luck.


I’ve considered a strict tune shop, selling bindings, if that. This would attract those who need a fast turnaround time on ski tunes.
Apr 27 2020 8:15PM
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WestieBogan
Posts: 50 - Karma: 87
PoubtvI’ve considered a strict tune shop, selling bindings, if that. This would attract those who need a fast turnaround time on ski tunes.


Great. It's a really good idea to start small and see how things go. Could you do it mobile? Out of the back of a truck? That way you'd also have an asset in the vehicle. Doing anything you can to minimize competition is worth thinking about. Start small and be as unique as possible - having made sure there's a viable market in your niche.
Apr 27 2020 9:23PM
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tri_photo
Posts: 1530 - Karma: 7,195
Make sure that you'll let me bribe myself to the front of the line with a 6 pack of brewskis when I need my new skis and bindings mounted up same day. Lol
Apr 27 2020 10:56PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,752
-Hire the best damn boot fitter you can find

-at least one tv with a loop of ski edits and movies, a seating area with an Xbox

-watercooler
Apr 28 2020 6:25AM
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little1337
Posts: 8283 - Karma: 48,712
PoubtvSomewhere i the northeast, NH or VT most likely. Currently employed in Southern NH


I'm in southern Maine, let me know when it opens I'll be the first customer
Apr 28 2020 8:10AM
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270on420out
Posts: 7519 - Karma: 51,243
Actually have shit that people want to buy. Seems like every shop in my city just caters to boomers and jerries. Can’t really blame them cause they seem to have a target audience.
Apr 28 2020 1:43PM
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TheClap.
Posts: 21674 - Karma: 4,188
GKSpretty sure jlev is adamant about only selling his skis online


More money in his pocket
Apr 28 2020 3:35PM
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Film.
Posts: 2649 - Karma: 2,296
Follow exactly what Slopestyle has done in Breck, best ski shop hands down.
Apr 28 2020 11:17PM
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dshiland
Posts: 222 - Karma: 1,453
something that i think would be super cool is a community night with movie premieres. or just showing old ski films, grilling some burgers and dogs for cheap with some beers just a real relaxed once a month thing would keep foot traffic up and create good bonds between workers and customers. maybe some raffles and give aways (tee shirts, sticker packs, helmets, coupons etc) you can have this in the summer too for mtn biking or kayaking to broaden the demographic. another thing would be having used gear for reasonable prices, pants, boots, skis, bindings, etc.
Apr 29 2020 12:29AM
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Biffbarf
Posts: 6799 - Karma: 72,763
Employ experts, but also let people be 'wrong' and buy what they'd like. A fine example of this - last time my mom bought skis in store the sales guy pushed hard for her to consider 174's. She's 5'11", rips, and has been riding 180+ skis since the late 80's. His fuddy judgement made her not want to ever go back.

Another example - Before the 'rona hit I prereleased and fucked myself up going pretty fast so I brought in my gear to get checked. Some old ass clown straight up said 'You know these are RACE bindings, right?' On a pair of sth2 16's. Luckily, the guy who took my info rolled his eyes and we shot the shit about my skis so all hope wasn't lost. But little things like that make or break an experience for me.

One more thing - it will be hard to compete with online prices. Stay competitive with proper service and friendly staff who are stoked on skiing. One of my biggest pet peeves is when brick and mortar retail stores cry about becoming irrelevant while doing nothing to stay relevant.
Apr 29 2020 2:36AM
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Thomasarivkin1
Posts: 193 - Karma: 535
dshilandsomething that i think would be super cool is a community night with movie premieres. or just showing old ski films, grilling some burgers and dogs for cheap with some beers just a real relaxed once a month thing would keep foot traffic up and create good bonds between workers and customers. maybe some raffles and give aways (tee shirts, sticker packs, helmets, coupons etc) you can have this in the summer too for mtn biking or kayaking to broaden the demographic. another thing would be having used gear for reasonable prices, pants, boots, skis, bindings, etc.


Yeah I like the idea of community events. Especially hosting movie premieres. Also do monthly snow pit chats, ladies night etc partnered with a local brewery
Apr 29 2020 11:46AM
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OCoffey
Posts: 648 - Karma: 3,698
Shop dog, free stickers, and an indoor mini ramp would set you apart in a good way

Also if you have a big enough backyard hill it would be sick to set up a free little park with some rails and boxes. Locals would love that
Apr 29 2020 12:32PM
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GrandThings
Posts: 3180 - Karma: 32,205
Ski Monster gave me a beer while my boots were being fit and it was pretty chill
Apr 29 2020 2:11PM
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animator
Posts: 4557 - Karma: 26,303
PoubtvSomewhere i the northeast, NH or VT most likely. Currently employed in Southern NH

Where in South NH do you work?
Apr 30 2020 7:44PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
Proctor Ski and Board in Nashua, NH
Apr 30 2020 9:27PM
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animator
Posts: 4557 - Karma: 26,303
PoubtvProctor Ski and Board in Nashua, NH

Oh no shit, we love Proctor. I work at Fire on the Mountain in Dover!
Apr 30 2020 10:08PM
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MPoub
Posts: 479 - Karma: 988
animatorOh no shit, we love Proctor. I work at Fire on the Mountain in Dover!


Ive never been but Ill definitely try to get out there when everything gets going in the fall. Good to know someones heard of it though haha
Apr 30 2020 10:22PM
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animator
Posts: 4557 - Karma: 26,303
To follow up on the thread, I visited every shop in Southern NH area before working at Fire On The Mountain. Proctor and FOTM were the only ones to leave a lasting impression on me because of the following:

1) I was immediately approached by an employee and asked if I needed any help finding anything, and not to hesitate to ask any questions. This made me felt like I was being taken care of which is what consumers love. They don’t like to be ignored or going out of their way to find a salesman to ask a question.

2) I was impressed by the selection of equipment available. Shops have a real tough time buying their gear because what sells to consumers changes every year. Proctor and FOTM had a great selection that catered to everyone from little kids, to park rats, to moms and dads. Shops that have a lack of selection is immediately off putting. Even if a shop doesn’t have exactly what the consumer is looking for, seeing a ski that looks similar is usually enough to intrigue them to ask a question or reconsider what they want to purchase.

3) Service times are huge. I’m not sure about the other surrounding shops, but we get a MASSIVE amount of skis and boards for service, whether it’s mounts or tunes or whatever. Usually around late October, through Christmas, we have anywhere from 300-500 pairs of skis that our tech does by hand by himself. This makes it tough to get quick turn around times, but we usually try and get things done before the 5 day mark. When it’s not as busy, we offer later same day/next day turn around times unless there is epoxy work involved. Consumers really appreciate this. Anyone who’s worked in a ski shop can definitely agree with me here, but most people bring their shit in right before they go skiing, which is obviously super aggravating because they ask for a stupid quick turn around time usually. Having quick turn around times helps to get people’s stuff in and out, and they really appreciate it.

4) Knowledgeable staff are key to running a shop. I went in to a ski shop in NH (that I won’t name) and said I wanted to try a specific boot on. The employee asked for my shoe size and before I could ask him anything else, brought back a boot 2 sizes too big for me. When I asked him why he brought that size, he said “the chart says a 10 shoe is that size.” Obviously he might not have had a lot of experience which is fine. Having a staff that at least knows enough to answer questions is really helpful for consumers, and there’s no shame in asking another staff member for help. I’ve been training as a junior boot fitter, but with some cases I ask our Master boot fitter for help because I don’t want to mislead the customer. Staff who know their way around what they’re selling is crucial.


There’s definitely other things, but to me these 4 stand out. They’re pretty general but super important, based on what I’ve experienced. Sorry for the long rant, but I hope it helps!
Apr 30 2020 10:27PM
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Price_Police
Posts: 444 - Karma: 1,786
They are good shop if they don’t set your dins at 4
Apr 30 2020 11:06PM
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