Does Armada usually use sintered bases?

Armada won't say but other sites say that it is sintered but my Wrenegades are 200% faster than my ARVs every could be. I was shocked how much faster the base was compared to my ARVs. My brother had the old Line Step Ups, that has a sintered base and he would ski faster on unwaxed, dried out bases on 166cm skis than me on a fresh new hydrocarbon wax. Their base is shit compared to the Durasurf 4001 that ON3P and Moment use. If anything it's a poor quality sintered base. Definitely better than extruded but not much better imo.

Notice how their invictus 99ti says "comp series base", and considering that's one of their premo skis, that base is probably better

Turd__AuthorityArmada won't say but other sites say that it is sintered but my Wrenegades are 200% faster than my ARVs every could be. I was shocked how much faster the base was compared to my ARVs. My brother had the old Line Step Ups, that has a sintered base and he would ski faster on unwaxed, dried out bases on 166cm skis than me on a fresh new hydrocarbon wax. Their base is shit compared to the Durasurf 4001 that ON3P and Moment use. If anything it's a poor quality sintered base. Definitely better than extruded but not much better imo.

Turd__AuthorityNotice how their invictus 99ti says "comp series base", and considering that's one of their premo skis, that base is probably better

maybe armada has a secret procedure to making extra durable bases that they dont want other makers copying. From what ive read their bases are durable as fuck so the base cant be all bad. Remember theres lots more factors that go into making a fast ski than just the base material.


right now im laying on the couch rubbing my new arvs against my crotch

that has to be worth something.

Bump

The Armada S7 bases are very hard bases that are engineered more for low maintenance and durability than speed. So they are definitely not as quick as a graphite infused, solid black race base but they will not require waxing as often and will take rail abuse far better than a race base.

Just keep them waxed when you can and check often for edge burrs and nicks as edge damage can also drastically effect a skis gliding speed. Often had people complain of slow skis and it’s the rough, beat up edges slowing them down.

Greg_KThe Armada S7 bases are very hard bases that are engineered more for low maintenance and durability than speed. So they are definitely not as quick as a graphite infused, solid black race base but they will not require waxing as often and will take rail abuse far better than a race base.

Just keep them waxed when you can and check often for edge burrs and nicks as edge damage can also drastically effect a skis gliding speed. Often had people complain of slow skis and it’s the rough, beat up edges slowing them down.

I think most armada skis that have black bases are sintered though. Its just probably a company trade secret and they dont want to let other companies get on the scent trail. Armadas website is totally ambiguous. They dont say whether its sintered or not. But 5 years or so ago the vendors were calling the armadas bases “sintered s7 base” so i do think it is a special modification to sintered bases that they do. Ive never heard ppl say armadas are slow—just that some other ski bases are faster.


i think something has to give because the conventional wisdom is that sintered bases are better in all ways, more durable, faster, etc. and at the price armada charges for their skis, there is no way they would avoid using a sintered base just to save money. If sintered truly is better in all ways then armada would be using sintered on all skis. If they arent then theres something about conventional wisdom that is dead wrong.

i feel like cartman trying to find out what happened on 9/11

**This post was edited on Apr 5th 2020 at 1:35:53am

Don’t think it’s a mystery why Armada uses the S7 bases on their freestyle skis vs their black, graphite infused bases on their more traditional skis that will always be used outside of the park.

The thick S7 base seems to be less fussy on waxing frequently(Armada always quotes “low maintenance”) and that makes sense for the average park rider who is not usually daily waxing like a racer might. Extruded or lower grade Sintered bases show less difference in glide when they are waxed vs unwaxed vs a race base.
Not having graphite(which is black) infused in the race base for improved glide allows them to be more creative with base graphics that will be easily seen when in the air doing tricks. Race skis typically only have logos in the tip/tip rocker area of their black bases where they could be seen in race while turning but not effect glide.

So more of a “knowing your customer” thing which realizes the average freestyler wants a durable, thick base that doesn’t require much waxing to still have decent glide.

I think the Dollos have a race base. I know they used to put race bases on the pipe cleaners and it was about the only thing that separated them from the thalls I think.

CatdickBojanglesI think the Dollos have a race base. I know they used to put race bases on the pipe cleaners and it was about the only thing that separated them from the thalls I think.

Correct. Because you want extra gliding speed in the half pipe and off kickers, most “half pipe/comp skis” feature faster race bases. Head Caddy’s and Framewalls have some of the fastest bases and base structures on a park ski but they aren’t really designed for rail abuse. Durability more of a concern if you’re hitting rails all day when you’re not sponsored. lol

Greg_KDon’t think it’s a mystery why Armada uses the S7 bases on their freestyle skis vs their black, graphite infused bases on their more traditional skis that will always be used outside of the park.

The thick S7 base seems to be less fussy on waxing frequently(Armada always quotes “low maintenance”) and that makes sense for the average park rider who is not usually daily waxing like a racer might. Extruded or lower grade Sintered bases show less difference in glide when they are waxed vs unwaxed vs a race base.
Not having graphite(which is black) infused in the race base for improved glide allows them to be more creative with base graphics that will be easily seen when in the air doing tricks. Race skis typically only have logos in the tip/tip rocker area of their black bases where they could be seen in race while turning but not effect glide.

So more of a “knowing your customer” thing which realizes the average freestyler wants a durable, thick base that doesn’t require much waxing to still have decent glide.

Sintered bases are supposedly more durable and less maintenance though, and to my knowledge, most armada bases are mostly black like my arvs.

and park riders i think are just as anal about waxing as racers.

sintered bases are more thirsty for wax in the beginning, but once they are full they are faster/more durable/ and less maintenance, from what ive read.

Turd__AuthorityTheir base is shit compared to the Durasurf 4001 that ON3P and Moment use.

Literally I don’t think anyone can beat that kind of base. I used to try to fuck up my old Magnus’ bases on anything you can think of and those motherfuckers wouldn’t do anything. I would just get the tiniest, shallowest knicks in the base even if I was legit landing on big ass rocks. They also don’t wear down from rails either.

solid shit.

weastcoastLiterally I don’t think anyone can beat that kind of base. I used to try to fuck up my old Magnus’ bases on anything you can think of and those motherfuckers wouldn’t do anything. I would just get the tiniest, shallowest knicks in the base even if I was legit landing on big ass rocks. They also don’t wear down from rails either.

solid shit.

Is durasurf sintered?

DolanReloadedIs durasurf sintered?

Yes it's a sintered base. Quite fast compared to most folks' skis/boards on the mountain. Not as fast as the best race bases obviously but still fast and durable base for damn sure.

Turd__AuthorityYes it's a sintered base. Quite fast compared to most folks' skis/boards on the mountain. Not as fast as the best race bases obviously but still fast and durable base for damn sure.

Do you think its a more durable base than armadas s7?
from my digging i seem to hear alot of people saying armadas are pretty durable.

but if durasurf is better maybe armada should adopt it.

DolanReloadedDo you think its a more durable base than armadas s7?
from my digging i seem to hear alot of people saying armadas are pretty durable.

but if durasurf is better maybe armada should adopt it.

I have no idea. Anecdotally in my limited experience and comparison with base damage between the two, the s7 is strong but weaker. Although to be honest every situation is different and every rock a different angle with different forces and speed pushed against the skis and object doing the damage. No true way to compare in the field. I have no idea the true and tested answer to your question. I'm sure there's some industry folks who could comment.

The base structure out of factory will have a pretty big impact on speed also.

Base structure will indeed make a difference to speed and all new skis from the factory will usually have a universal structure for average conditions in average winter temps anywhere in the world. If the temps are significantly above or below average they won’t be as fast as they could be just like if have the wrong temp wax on for those temps.

All things being equal as far as structure, wax etc, the sintered base will be faster and more durable(as they are more dense) than an Extruded base. An Extruded base gets a little bit faster with wax(but never as fast as Sintered) but the unwaxed extruded base can be faster than some unwaxed sintered bases. Waxing and structure always makes a bigger difference with a sintered base and less with extruded bases, so the term “less/easier maintenance” is often used with Extruded bases as it will make less of a difference with them. Even if never waxed, they don’t get that much slower vs a sintered base that will get noticeably slower without wax.

Durasurf is the manufacturer of Sintered bases that ON3P, Moment and others use and they typically use the 4001 model. The number companies use in the model number is usually the density(roughly it’s hardness) although it could vary from company to company I’m sure. So a p-tex is 4500 denser than a p-Tex 2100. Most “race bases” are in the 4500 range and infuse graphite in the p-Tex which improves glide.

ON3P uses a dense base and it’s thicker than normal too, as is Moments(but not as thick as ON3P uses) so ON3P are kinda the champs of beefy and still fast bases. They use coloured bases rather than graphite infused black ones so they wouldn’t be as quite as fast as ones that are.

I’m a tuning fanatic with all my skis and there are definitely differences between the speed of bases but probably not as noticeable as people probably think if proper maintenance is done on the bases and edges. Waxing and making sure edges are smooth and burr/nick free makes a big difference.

All this being said, my 2017 ARV 86s had noticeably slower bases than my other skis that usually feature race bases. They didn’t take wax like a higher end base does and wax types didn’t seem to make much difference. Would like to have them back as I’ve got much improved edge tuning equipment now so it could have been edge issues causing some of the glide issues. So BEST CASE, I’d say S7 is a lower end Sintered base but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually a thick Extruded base.

Greg_KBase structure will indeed make a difference to speed and all new skis from the factory will usually have a universal structure for average conditions in average winter temps anywhere in the world. If the temps are significantly above or below average they won’t be as fast as they could be just like if have the wrong temp wax on for those temps.

All things being equal as far as structure, wax etc, the sintered base will be faster and more durable(as they are more dense) than an Extruded base. An Extruded base gets a little bit faster with wax(but never as fast as Sintered) but the unwaxed extruded base can be faster than some unwaxed sintered bases. Waxing and structure always makes a bigger difference with a sintered base and less with extruded bases, so the term “less/easier maintenance” is often used with Extruded bases as it will make less of a difference with them. Even if never waxed, they don’t get that much slower vs a sintered base that will get noticeably slower without wax.

Durasurf is the manufacturer of Sintered bases that ON3P, Moment and others use and they typically use the 4001 model. The number companies use in the model number is usually the density(roughly it’s hardness) although it could vary from company to company I’m sure. So a p-tex is 4500 denser than a p-Tex 2100. Most “race bases” are in the 4500 range and infuse graphite in the p-Tex which improves glide.

ON3P uses a dense base and it’s thicker than normal too, as is Moments(but not as thick as ON3P uses) so ON3P are kinda the champs of beefy and still fast bases. They use coloured bases rather than graphite infused black ones so they wouldn’t be as quite as fast as ones that are.

I’m a tuning fanatic with all my skis and there are definitely differences between the speed of bases but probably not as noticeable as people probably think if proper maintenance is done on the bases and edges. Waxing and making sure edges are smooth and burr/nick free makes a big difference.

All this being said, my 2017 ARV 86s had noticeably slower bases than my other skis that usually feature race bases. They didn’t take wax like a higher end base does and wax types didn’t seem to make much difference. Would like to have them back as I’ve got much improved edge tuning equipment now so it could have been edge issues causing some of the glide issues. So BEST CASE, I’d say S7 is a lower end Sintered base but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually a thick Extruded base.

gotta say i'm really disappointed to hear this, since i just got new ARV 96 ti Zeros and they have an S7 base. why would a ""super duper limited edition top shelf Zero series" ski have a shitty base? the bases are mostly black/dark gray (i forget) if that makes any difference lol

SofaKingSickgotta say i'm really disappointed to hear this, since i just got new ARV 96 ti Zeros and they have an S7 base. why would a ""super duper limited edition top shelf Zero series" ski have a shitty base? the bases are mostly black/dark gray (i forget) if that makes any difference lol

They may have changed them since I had mine as they never used to mention Sintered anywhere in literature when I had mine and was always “low maintenance with speed additive” which is usually Extruded with graphite or something similar to speed up the glide a bit. I would hope they would have gone to Sintered bases on all their skis now. The onpiste ones getting the normal thickness but faster race bases and the freestyle ones getting thicker and at least decent Sintered ones. Have to ask Armada to be sure.

Greg_KThey may have changed them since I had mine as they never used to mention Sintered anywhere in literature when I had mine and was always “low maintenance with speed additive” which is usually Extruded with graphite or something similar to speed up the glide a bit. I would hope they would have gone to Sintered bases on all their skis now. The onpiste ones getting the normal thickness but faster race bases and the freestyle ones getting thicker and at least decent Sintered ones. Have to ask Armada to be sure.

yeah i hope so. i checked and most of their skis have the s7 base. dollos have the comp whatever base (which im mad jealous of), and a couple others presumably do too. just annoying because i finally got new skis that are like made for me and now i'm hearing the bases aren't very good lol and i'm a huge hater of cheaping out on ski bases haha

in my experience the bases on medium-high level armada skis are good though so fingers crossed

Unless we hear from the horse's mouth, I'm leaning towards extruded. Neither their website nor catalog in the past 3-4 years I've been following them mention their S7 base as sintered. If it were some form of sintered, why wouldn't they just say it and keep us from speculating? Blisterreivew has been stating the S7 base as sintered in the their past several amrada reviews, but again, I'd like some sort of confirmation.

@patagonialuke @cydwhit ?

With that said, I still picked up a pair of 18/19 96ti zeros. Granted I took good care of waxing em from the start (2 rounds of base prep waxing before they saw snow and waxed every 3-4 ski days thereafter), and can't say I ever noticed them being slow. I remember once bombing whatever the groomed trail is from top to bottom of 7th heaven at Whistler and wasn't disappointed by any means.

However I am a bit disappointed in the durability. It felt like every day I took them out, they ended up with some noticeable dinger(s) to the base that I'd have to ptex about half of. My other skis are BC Atris that have prob seen 50+ days and light scratches are about the worst damage I've seen.

FWIW, these have solid black bases along the whole contact length. I've never had Armadas with non-solid black S7 bases, but I'm still looking pretty hard at a pair of arv 106s.

Greg_KBase structure will indeed make a difference to speed and all new skis from the factory will usually have a universal structure for average conditions in average winter temps anywhere in the world. If the temps are significantly above or below average they won’t be as fast as they could be just like if have the wrong temp wax on for those temps.

All things being equal as far as structure, wax etc, the sintered base will be faster and more durable(as they are more dense) than an Extruded base. An Extruded base gets a little bit faster with wax(but never as fast as Sintered) but the unwaxed extruded base can be faster than some unwaxed sintered bases. Waxing and structure always makes a bigger difference with a sintered base and less with extruded bases, so the term “less/easier maintenance” is often used with Extruded bases as it will make less of a difference with them. Even if never waxed, they don’t get that much slower vs a sintered base that will get noticeably slower without wax.

Durasurf is the manufacturer of Sintered bases that ON3P, Moment and others use and they typically use the 4001 model. The number companies use in the model number is usually the density(roughly it’s hardness) although it could vary from company to company I’m sure. So a p-tex is 4500 denser than a p-Tex 2100. Most “race bases” are in the 4500 range and infuse graphite in the p-Tex which improves glide.

ON3P uses a dense base and it’s thicker than normal too, as is Moments(but not as thick as ON3P uses) so ON3P are kinda the champs of beefy and still fast bases. They use coloured bases rather than graphite infused black ones so they wouldn’t be as quite as fast as ones that are.

I’m a tuning fanatic with all my skis and there are definitely differences between the speed of bases but probably not as noticeable as people probably think if proper maintenance is done on the bases and edges. Waxing and making sure edges are smooth and burr/nick free makes a big difference.

All this being said, my 2017 ARV 86s had noticeably slower bases than my other skis that usually feature race bases. They didn’t take wax like a higher end base does and wax types didn’t seem to make much difference. Would like to have them back as I’ve got much improved edge tuning equipment now so it could have been edge issues causing some of the glide issues. So BEST CASE, I’d say S7 is a lower end Sintered base but wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually a thick Extruded base.

Maybe armada has something proprietary that doesnt fit the standard classification?

im sure they have their reasons.

I still get stuck on the fact that a few yesrs ago, armada was calling the bases “s7 sintered”

either way i see very positive reviews of armadas durability, so maybe it doesnt matter that much.




l

everything labeled "comp series base" is sintered. and everything labled "s7" is extruded. Its been this way forever w/ armada.

you guys can also just notice it because sintered bases can't be made crazy colorful like extruded. its easy to identify.

Don't have buyers remorse everyone. The ARV is a sick ski and decently priced. Still plenty fast enough. I had the old model which still ripped and the newer one is supposed to be wayyyy better. While I did get some core shots courtesy of "the best snow on earth", I had plenty of collisions with objects that should have royally fucked my skis but didn't. Durability is there. Only reason I got rid of them is because I got a sick deal on Kartel/Jeffrey 108 and replaced them, in addition to using the wrenegade 96 as my daily driver (the ARV 106 was my daily for previous 2 years).

Unless you're racing or going head to head with someone with quality sintered bases, you won't notice the speed difference. I would put their speed somewhere between line extruded bases and a decent sintered base.

Tldr: don't fret y'all. Armada bases are fine for you.

scratchskier321you guys can also just notice it because sintered bases can't be made crazy colorful like extruded. its easy to identify.

You can have colorful, sintered bases. In fact, our world cup slalom skis had colorful bases in the past (2013?) and red bases since. Yes, the fastest sintered bases will be all black, but below a certain speed it doesn't matter- you need to be going very fast in order to reap the benefits of the all black sintered base. So, for slalom it didn't matter that we used colorful or red bases, but for GS, Super G, and DH we will always use all black sintered bases. And there's no question that we will source the fastest bases possible- we will always strive to continue to the be dominant force in racing.

All of Atomic's adult skis use sintered bases (even the Punx 5) and the vast majority of those adult skis use the same quality base that our Redster G9 race skis use. The only Atomic skis that use extruded bases are kid's skis and first tier rental skis.


Re: Armada - I'm not sure exactly what bases they use, but I would bet their adult skis all use sintered bases (of some level).

i'm pretty sure the s7 is sintered, i've seen it described as sintered in too many instances over the years to think it's extruded

and on a quick glance it seems like the most common base used by armada this season. if armada is using extruded on most of their skis they've fallen super super hard over the past few years

who knows how good it is though. pretty bush league to put slow bases on top shelf skis, i'll be disappointed if there aren't fast bases on my ZERO SERIES (said in mega mo voice)

OhJayUnless we hear from the horse's mouth, I'm leaning towards extruded. Neither their website nor catalog in the past 3-4 years I've been following them mention their S7 base as sintered. If it were some form of sintered, why wouldn't they just say it and keep us from speculating? Blisterreivew has been stating the S7 base as sintered in the their past several amrada reviews, but again, I'd like some sort of confirmation.

@patagonialuke @cydwhit ?

With that said, I still picked up a pair of 18/19 96ti zeros. Granted I took good care of waxing em from the start (2 rounds of base prep waxing before they saw snow and waxed every 3-4 ski days thereafter), and can't say I ever noticed them being slow. I remember once bombing whatever the groomed trail is from top to bottom of 7th heaven at Whistler and wasn't disappointed by any means.

However I am a bit disappointed in the durability. It felt like every day I took them out, they ended up with some noticeable dinger(s) to the base that I'd have to ptex about half of. My other skis are BC Atris that have prob seen 50+ days and light scratches are about the worst damage I've seen.

FWIW, these have solid black bases along the whole contact length. I've never had Armadas with non-solid black S7 bases, but I'm still looking pretty hard at a pair of arv 106s.

yeah, a while back our contact at Armada told us the S7 base is sintered. I suspect it's a lower-quality base than the "Comp Base" but I don't have info on what specifically separates the two.

patagonialukeyeah, a while back our contact at Armada told us the S7 base is sintered. I suspect it's a lower-quality base than the "Comp Base" but I don't have info on what specifically separates the two.

Thanks for that. Can't complain given the demographic they're marketing towards with the price point (at least for the ARV series). Hoping my 96ti base experience is just an anomaly so far.

i emailed armada about it and they confirmed the s7 is sintered but nothing more specific or technical than that

since i asked about the Comp Base as well they said "Comp base is a sintered UHMW polyethylene with added carbon aids in speed and durability on snow."


i'll ask them for more if they can but also say no pressure, it's not that important haha

Nice...

SofaKingSicki emailed armada about it and they confirmed the s7 is sintered but nothing more specific or technical than that

since i asked about the Comp Base as well they said "Comp base is a sintered UHMW polyethylene with added carbon aids in speed and durability on snow."


i'll ask them for more if they can but also say no pressure, it's not that important haha

From my digging of images it seems like bases that are sintered have texture to yhem, even if its only tiny longitudinal grooves from tip to tail. Extruded bases seem to look more like typical plastic without any surface texture. Heres a pic i found from a guy showing his sintered board (top) compared to his extruded board (bottom).

the extruded base does kind of look cheaper and the guy said it was much less durable than his sintered boards base.

fakin link not working.