Vegan/plant-based gabber

AndrewGravesSVIn the past few months after moving to SLC a lot of my new friends are vegans and the food they make is dank. I think to be vegan you need to have an eye on food and the prep work goes a long way for taste too. I dunno if I'll ever be fully vegan but with how commonplace some of the options are now its easy to cut way back on your meat intake. The majority of people cutting back and trying to become more plant based will do more for a cultural shift than 1/10 people going vegan

OregonDeadmeat is great but the recommended guidelines are there for a reason and too much meat will make you inefficient. also the goal is to eat at least a full ounce of dietary fiber per day and there is no fiber in meat

VinnieF10 years ago this would have turned into an 8 page thread about meat.

friesHahaha I think you meant this for the carnivore thread below

DIRTYBUBBLEI'm still not convinced that a vegan diet is as healthy as it seems. I'm all for carbon footprint reduction and I don't doubt that eating large amounts of fruit and vegetables is good for you, but I'm not convinced that a well-rounded diet is less healthy than a diet that has only been practiced for the past several decades (widespread at least).

DIRTYBUBBLEI'm still not convinced that a vegan diet is as healthy as it seems. I'm all for carbon footprint reduction and I don't doubt that eating large amounts of fruit and vegetables is good for you, but I'm not convinced that a well-rounded diet is less healthy than a diet that has only been practiced for the past several decades (widespread at least).

ShadowXVXBased thread.

Human physiology is most similar to that of frugivorous animals, and our closest relatives (great apes) eat primarily frugivorous and nearly entirely herbivorous diets. And some humans who still live isolated tribal lives are herbivores. While 'veganism' as a word or movement is new, an herbivorous diet is not.

OregonDeadmeat is a great part of a vegetarian diet.

ShadowXVXHuman physiology is most similar to that of frugivorous animals, and our closest relatives (great apes) eat primarily frugivorous and nearly entirely herbivorous diets.

friesYou talking about nutritionally adequate, or healthy?
All the major dietetics and health organizations in the world agree that vegan and vegetarian diets are just as healthy as omnivorous diets. You probably don’t but if you want the links to some of these studies, I’d be happy to post them in here!

DIRTYBUBBLEI'm still not convinced that a vegan diet is as healthy as it seems. I'm all for carbon footprint reduction and I don't doubt that eating large amounts of fruit and vegetables is good for you, but I'm not convinced that a well-rounded diet is less healthy than a diet that has only been practiced for the past several decades (widespread at least).

JoeF2661I've been a Pescatarian for a minute now but honestly I kind of miss meat. Like some people have mentioned I think it's all about moderation. Really want to get back into hunting and just harvesting my own meat.

TOAST.I agree with you that a well rounded diet is probably the best. That being said most americans eat wayyyyy to much meat. You should try cutting meat out of your diet for a little and see how you feel.

OregonDeadI think humans are more opportunists. Fruit doesn't even grow some of the places where people have lived for eons. Totally possible get your nutrition from the stomachs of animals that eat stuff that people can't really eat.

People love to eat bugs. You can say that bugs aren't meat or that fish are bugs and I will not care but you can't convince me that those things are plants. Also mushrooms and various fungi are closer to animals than plants

ShadowXVXOf course eating bugs and eating fishes is the same as eating other animals. And yes, humans are opportunists and can survive on a diet consisting of a lot of animal-based nutrition. However, that doesn't mean that an omnivorous diet is ideal for humans, it just means that we're capable of surviving on it. We're still better off as herbivores. But even aside from that, an herbivorous diet has a drastically less harmful effect on animals and the planet, so it is still the way we should all be eating even if we disregard the health benefits.
Everything in your post is pretty much true (other than the last sentence; I don't know whether or not that is true so I won't comment on it) but that doesn't negate the fact that we can and should eat herbivorous diets.

VinnieFDude.. you literally make shit up.

"We're still better off as herbivores."

No. No we are not. Humans have evolved with meat as an important source of certain nutrients. Taking meat out of our diet means we need to find substitutes and plan our diet accordingly to not be deficient in certain nutrients. The easiest, healthiest diet you can have is a well balanced diet that involves some red meat for important and otherwise hard to get nutrients like vitamin D, B12, some fatty acids, and some proteins. The simple fact that a vegetarian or vegan has to go out of their way to try and keep their intake of these nutrients high enough to be healthy proves that a well balanced omnivorous diet is the best possible diet for us.

oldmanskiLife is to short. Eat what you want when you want, just consume it in moderation.

friesLife is too short to care about the environment? What stops you from tossing styrofoam cups out the window?

friesNon-vegans love to point at B12 to discredit a plant-based diet as unnatural, while ignoring the fact that most supplements exist for and are consumed by omnivores. Milk, flour, bread, cereal, juice, table salt are all commonly fortified or enriched with various nutrients of modern concern including vitamin D, C, iodine, B12, riboflavin, thiamin, niacin, folic acid, calcium and iron. And why would an non-vegan ever need or want to take a protein supplement?!



https://www.verywellfit.com/what-are-enriched-and-fortified-foods-2506147



In the early 1900s, goiter (a disease of the thyroid gland) was relatively common in areas where iodine was deficient in the soil. In 1924, some salt makers added iodine to their product, which helped reduce the number of new cases of goiter dramatically within a short time.



Milk was first fortified with vitamin D in 1933 to ensure that a sufficient amount of calcium would be absorbed. A vitamin D deficiency can lead to rickets in children and osteoporosis in adults.



Today you'll find calcium-fortified orange juice, phytosterol-fortified margarine and vitamin and mineral fortified breakfast cereals in your local grocery store.



Also note that factory farmed animals, which make up 95 - 99% of animals in agriculture https://www.aspca.org/animal-cruelty/farm-animal-welfare have such poor living and feeding environments they must be given supplements such as cobalt for ruminants and B-complex (including cyanocobalamin) for pigs and birds:

https://www.wattagnet.com/articles/23125-3-reasons-b-vitamins-become-limiting-in-pig-poultry-feeds



In contrast, pigs and poultry require an external source of supplementation for all B vitamins, as the microbial fermentation in their large intestine does not cover their needs under modern production conditions.*



In pig and poultry diets, B vitamins are usually supplied through the medium of a vitamin and trace mineral premix that provides all vitamins and minerals -- that is, it ignores contributions from natural ingredients.



So a non-vegan that consumes bread, cereal, milk, salt and juice are taking in supplements without concern and commonly championed for good health. Meat products have usable levels of B12 in part thanks to supplements given to the animal.



But ultimately, supplementing, fortification and enrichment are practical solutions to common modern health concerns which we all gain benefit from whether we realise it or not!

VinnieFYou proved my point perfectly. To have a healthy diet as a vegan, you need to take supplements. A well balanced diet with red meat requires no supplements. This is the simplest and most effective proof that this statement:

"However, that doesn't mean that an omnivorous diet is ideal for humans, it just means that we're capable of surviving on it. We're still better off as herbivores."

Is a total fabrication.

friesThe point of that post is to show that supplements are a modern innovation which is widespread throughout our food system. Vegan diets are not the exception.

The only essential nutrient not available in a vegan diet is vitamin b12. As I mentioned, this is commonly supplemented into livestock feed. You may still be getting your b12 from supplements, whether you’re aware of it or not.

B12 is produced by microbes that blanket our natural environment. This would typically be present on vegetables, in well water, and so on. In the sanitary world we live in today, we lose this nutrient. For that reason, it’s more efficient to just, drink some oat milk fortified with B12. You know, as the rest of the civilized world is doing with Vitamin D.


Hope this makes sense. I didn’t really intend this to be a debate thread so if you don’t care for veganism, no hard feelings. Just a possible option for counteracting climate change. Have a good one brother.

VinnieFI think you totally misunderstood what I was originally getting at.. and I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying. The point I was getting at that you clearly don't disagree with is the notion that humans are better off as herbivores than omnivores. A point proven by the fact that a herbivorous diet needs special attention to avoid deficiencies, where a well balanced omnivorous diet does not. I'm not at all saying vegans can't be just as healthy, it just requires more work since humans evolved as omnivores.

VinnieFI really dislike and disagree with the notion that eating meat is environmentally bad. What is far more important than your dietary choices is where you source your food from. Eating locally and sustainably should be the number one priority. A vegan who buys avocados from Mexico and soy product from the Amazon and quinoa from Peru is absolutely no better (and probably far worse) for the environment than someone who goes and hunts from a healthy forest ecosystem in their backyard or catches fish from the local lake. The focus should 100% be on where your food is sourced, not on what the food is.

It would be interesting to see a comparison in the ecological footprints for the diets of two people from a North American city: one who is a vegan and buys all their food at the supermarket and eats a 'typical' vegan diet, and another who eats a balanced diet that includes meat and buys all their food from local and sustainable sources.

SnickleFrizWhy does the meat eater get to source locally when the veg-whatever has to import?
I could rack up a repulsive carbon footprint by ordering hundreds of 6-piece lego sets, one at a time, off of alibaba...

http://www.greeneatz.com/foods-carbon-footprint.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/07/25/vegetarianism-climate-change-meat-vegan-livestock-column/1804090001/


**This post was edited on Jan 23rd 2020 at 6:21:20pm

**This post was edited on Jan 23rd 2020 at 6:22:30pm

VinnieFOr change to veganism AND source your food better if you really want to make the biggest change.

But no vegans talk about that. It's all about meat being the scourge of the earth, nothing about the fact their quinoa salad traveled 5000km and is raising the prices of a staple food beyond what local Peruvians/Bolivians can afford. Nope, that's fine. But if you eat meat you're the reason why the climate is changing.

friesWhat do you miss about it? Cravings are likely to happen if you aren't getting your body that same fix of fat and protein after switching over. Plant-based meats like beyond meat are a great way to get your body what it's looking for if you encounter the occasional craving. Eventually you'll stop thinking about it if you're eating a well balanced diet. How long have you been pescatarian?

JoeF2661Going on about 5 months now. I've tried the plant based "meat" and don't really enjoy it. I truly feel healthy eating is all in the prep and finding the time. I guess there not real cravings but when I see a roommate of mine chowing down on some carne asada or some dank pizza it makes me think. I went this route from an environmental standpoint and also I was at a point in my life where I needed to change not only my diet but my entire lifestyle choices.

friesWho said you have to eat quinoa or avocados to be vegan? If you’re concerned about sourcing your food locally, I support it wholeheartedly. But as you mention, the two aren’t mutually exclusive. Just because vegan doesn’t mean perfection, does not mean we should aim to cause the most harm by eating an animal product based diet.

also- animal agriculture is responsible for 18% of greenhouse gas emissions. Transportation is responsible for 13%.
http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/a0701e/a0701e00.HTM

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/global-greenhouse-gas-emissions-data

TnskiI'm all for this alternative meat crap, any hype to help the environment is good hype imo

TnskiI'm all for this alternative meat crap, any hype to help the environment is good hype imo

VinnieFDude.. you literally make shit up.

"We're still better off as herbivores."

No. No we are not. Humans have evolved with meat as an important source of certain nutrients. Taking meat out of our diet means we need to find substitutes and plan our diet accordingly to not be deficient in certain nutrients. The easiest, healthiest diet you can have is a well balanced diet that involves some red meat for important and otherwise hard to get nutrients like vitamin D, B12, some fatty acids, and some proteins. The simple fact that a vegetarian or vegan has to go out of their way to try and keep their intake of these nutrients high enough to be healthy proves that a well balanced omnivorous diet is the best possible diet for us.

DIRTYBUBBLEMankind split off from the precursor to both humans and apes about 3 million years ago. The food that chimps eat is completely irrelevant.

**This post was edited on Jan 22nd 2020 at 8:53:56pm