Tahoe resorts mountain ops strike

I’d love to see it happen.

Patrol got unionized by Vail. So it can be done.

Whatever you do it needs to get the publicity and new outlets in the major markets known. The tourists needs to know why their lifts are not running.

what is “bortys post”

First off this is why mountains hire a ton of J'1s...
Not sure why people think this will work when working for a resort is never a REAL job. first, ski bums will always move to resort towns and be stupid and very naive therefore they think it's smart to work at a resort. You get a job and a free pass.

This is extremely stupid if you look at numbers so don't EVER do this. The way you make money in resort towns is catering to the rich. Either in restaurants where you make tips or in blue collar work. I will never understand why this is not mentioned on this site besides that skier kids are generally lazy and rich and their parents pay their rent or that most won't take the time to educate others.

Working at a resort is like working at Woodward. I used to work at woodward and ask any former employee it's a fucking joke. Every employee has a dumb ass opinion and is wrong until they stop working their. They get hired and think everything is great then work hard and get treated like shit forever until they quit and then they till everyone haha. Every employee is expendable and due to supply and demand, ( Every kid thinks working for woodward will be sick so they have hundreds of applications) therefore they can choose to not care about their employee's.

This is what resorts have done and will always continue to do. Stop working for them get a job where you make Money!!!! Bartenders and Servers crush in resort towns and in spring, summer and fall Blue Collar workers make great money. Find a private custom home building company to work for. They pay great and can charge rich people any amount of money to build their house so you will start at a high wage. Don't be Lazy.

PeteMahnFirst off this is why mountains hire a ton of J'1s...
Not sure why people think this will work when working for a resort is never a REAL job. first, ski bums will always move to resort towns and be stupid and very naive therefore they think it's smart to work at a resort. You get a job and a free pass.

This is extremely stupid if you look at numbers so don't EVER do this. The way you make money in resort towns is catering to the rich. Either in restaurants where you make tips or in blue collar work. I will never understand why this is not mentioned on this site besides that skier kids are generally lazy and rich and their parents pay their rent or that most won't take the time to educate others.

Working at a resort is like working at Woodward. I used to work at woodward and ask any former employee it's a fucking joke. Every employee has a dumb ass opinion and is wrong until they stop working their. They get hired and think everything is great then work hard and get treated like shit forever until they quit and then they till everyone haha. Every employee is expendable and due to supply and demand, ( Every kid thinks working for woodward will be sick so they have hundreds of applications) therefore they can choose to not care about their employee's.

This is what resorts have done and will always continue to do. Stop working for them get a job where you make Money!!!! Bartenders and Servers crush in resort towns and in spring, summer and fall Blue Collar workers make great money. Find a private custom home building company to work for. They pay great and can charge rich people any amount of money to build their house so you will start at a high wage. Don't be Lazy.

Do you ski park ever? Somebody has to build/maintain that shit. But they're probably all lazy and their parents pay their rent. Also I don't know of any J1s in parks, running cats, etc. There might be a few, but I don't even know of any doings snownaking.

Good luck throwing somebody green to the industry, maybe even to winter sports into some of those roles. Even the basic jobs that are "expendable due to supply and demand" ate nkt getting filled to demand. Anybody can run a lift but they can't get enough people, snowmaking is always short at many mountains.

Sounds like you didnt make friends at woodward? Idk. Seems like you're second guessing you're own decisions more than giving advice. Chill out

OP playing with fire for real

Unfortunately, there are very few people who actually make a lifetime career in the ski industry working in on-mountain positions. Generally speaking, the market forces drive the pay structure of any job so if you make $14 an hour instead of $28, there is probably a pretty good reason for that. If the resort is having a hard time filling positions, they may decide to increase the starting pay to attract more candidates. If you aren't interested in becoming a manager or department head (less time on snow, most likely), then just know that it may not be the kind of employment that affords you the opportunity to buy a house, a new car every 5 years, or whatever else you may have in mind. In that case, it might be worthwhile to just appreciate the time you have working in a fun job with the perks of having a free pass and being able to ski every day. Also keep in mind that there are two sides to a budget - the earning side and the expenses side - and you need to live within your means no matter how much you make.

If you decide that you want to move up in the hierarchy of the resort, I would say the best way to accomplish that is to make yourself irreplaceable. If the company that employs you finds value in your work that exceeds what others bring to them, you will have increased leverage to negotiate for higher pay. They don't have any incentive to just offer you more money but if you open up the conversation with your manager or department head, you may be able to find a way to make it happen. In some cases, that may be by taking on more responsibility, receiving certifications, additional training, etc. Since this shows commitment on your part, the resort is more incentivized to keep you around since they may be investing in you.

I can sympathize with the feeling of being underpaid (just about everybody I know feels they don't earn what they want) but don't forget that not every job is supposed to be a career. There is a good reason that people generally make more later in their life than they do earlier on - they move up in the job market as they gain skills and experience. Work hard, learn as much as you can, be a reliable and hard-working employee, and take opportunities when they come up.

You may ultimately have to leave employment in the ski industry to accomplish your goals but that is OK too. I personally moved from resort work to the food and beverage industry and then into consulting, making more each year than the previous year, while still getting ample time to play. You are the architect of your own fortune - just take personal responsibility for improving your situation and you'll probably find that you are headed in the right direction. Good luck!

Beaver Creek Ski School attempted to unionize and got shut down in that. Other than that, some patrollers have managed to unionize, but not Vail resort (Crested Butte and Park City and Stevens pass are all resorts that Vail has bought that have patrol unions though). It may be easier to unionize in California, I don't know - but it's quite difficult in most places because of Taft Hartley and other direct attacks on the working class.

Try to organize a union before organizing a strike, because you need union support to have anything like that work. It'll be easier to convince people to unionize than to strike too - striking is a negotiating tool, one of many that unions have.

Okay I’m gonna chime in again since I’m on a plane and will be going stir crazy for the next few hours.

All this is coming from experience and knowledge of an ex upper manager at a few resorts

Wages need to change in the ski industry. No brainer there. But I don’t think they need to drastically improve. There are other ways to help. The biggest I see that needs to happen and needed to years ago is employee housing or budget housing for seasonal employees.

Housing crunch and price gouging and air B&B have totally flipped ski town housing and rentals. Resorts need to step in. Or there will be no one to flip burgers and bump chairs.

I’m not saying a walk out or protest or fight for Union is the way to do that - but I’m not against seeing it happen or having a group try. But if it’s done I need to be done correct with good planning and thought.

You live where people vacation, shit is always going to be expensive and you will probably be underpaid for that area unless you work a less expendable job unfortunately.

Definitely try and unionize before you try and strike, and keep in mind your going to be on your mid-level managers shit list for a looooong while if you do, even successfully. In my experience mid level managers may be chill with you but when you start fucking with their own pay (they sure as hell aren’t getting any raises or bonuses if their staff are on strike) all bets are off.

What do you have against the name squaw valley? Its been named that since before you were born and would cost them way more money to change the name than you think.

a_burgerDefinitely try and unionize before you try and strike, and keep in mind your going to be on your mid-level managers shit list for a looooong while if you do, even successfully. In my experience mid level managers may be chill with you but when you start fucking with their own pay (they sure as hell aren’t getting any raises or bonuses if their staff are on strike) all bets are off.

Mid level managers at most top tier resorts don’t have much say in pay and raises. It’s a textbook plan and amount with little wiggle room.

SkiBum.Mid level managers at most top tier resorts don’t have much say in pay and raises. It’s a textbook plan and amount with little wiggle room.

I guess midlevel might be the wrong word, but the snow surfaces and mtn ops manager won’t be very stoked and at least where I work they are still fairly involved with day to day stuff and can make your Job hell if they want to.

Im all for higher wages and shit but make sure you know what your getting yourself and potentially your coworkers into op

**This post was edited on Jan 4th 2020 at 7:08:11pm

Who cares if the name is changed? Don’t waste your time protesting shit just for the sake of it. If it offends you that bad ski somewhere else. As far as pay goes, it would be great to get paid more working at ski resorts. But we all work at ski resorts for a reason. I could’ve got plenty of jobs that paid more, but I worked at the resort to ski and have fun. It’s the price you pay. Save up hard in the summer and work the minimal amount in winter.

theabortionatorDo you ski park ever? Somebody has to build/maintain that shit. But they're probably all lazy and their parents pay their rent. Also I don't know of any J1s in parks, running cats, etc. There might be a few, but I don't even know of any doings snownaking.

Good luck throwing somebody green to the industry, maybe even to winter sports into some of those roles. Even the basic jobs that are "expendable due to supply and demand" ate nkt getting filled to demand. Anybody can run a lift but they can't get enough people, snowmaking is always short at many mountains.

Sounds like you didnt make friends at woodward? Idk. Seems like you're second guessing you're own decisions more than giving advice. Chill out

To maintain a park you need a manager and 1-2 other guys who know what there doing. The rest is all general labor, setting rails, raking etc. You can teach this easily. So you need 1-2 / max 3 people who can run a cat.
As far as snowmaking my homie is a snowmaker at PC. This is his 3rd season snowmaking and is considered experienced. Besides the manager most of the workers don't have a clue what there doing and again are learning, which is why the mountains are scrambling and paying overtime wages for the experienced.

So yes just like every major city in America that's booming (L.A , N.Y, Boston etc) all the labor and blue collar work is done by a majority of minorities. There's so many studies showing how millennial's don't want to do blue collar work so someone has to do it. So why can't ski resorts get foreign workers just like every city has them completing the work. Talk to anybody in the industry working at a mountain that is "successful" meaning it makes profit in the U.S. (Its either Apart of Epic or Ikon) meaning many of the workers are J's.
These companies treat employee's like shit so rather than strike just stop working for them and smarten up. Why do all these ski bums work for them in the first place? For a ski pass and shitty employee housing where you're forced to sleep 2 feet away from your roommate with no privacy at all.
Sounds like shit to me when you can easily pay for that pass and housing with other jobs in resort towns and jobs which you mostly work nights so you can ski everyday.
As far as woodward I'll let the former employee's speak on that haha.

PeteMahnTo maintain a park you need a manager and 1-2 other guys who know what there doing. The rest is all general labor, setting rails, raking etc. You can teach this easily. So you need 1-2 / max 3 people who can run a cat.
As far as snowmaking my homie is a snowmaker at PC. This is his 3rd season snowmaking and is considered experienced. Besides the manager most of the workers don't have a clue what there doing and again are learning, which is why the mountains are scrambling and paying overtime wages for the experienced.

So yes just like every major city in America that's booming (L.A , N.Y, Boston etc) all the labor and blue collar work is done by a majority of minorities. There's so many studies showing how millennial's don't want to do blue collar work so someone has to do it. So why can't ski resorts get foreign workers just like every city has them completing the work. Talk to anybody in the industry working at a mountain that is "successful" meaning it makes profit in the U.S. (Its either Apart of Epic or Ikon) meaning many of the workers are J's.
These companies treat employee's like shit so rather than strike just stop working for them and smarten up. Why do all these ski bums work for them in the first place? For a ski pass and shitty employee housing where you're forced to sleep 2 feet away from your roommate with no privacy at all.
Sounds like shit to me when you can easily pay for that pass and housing with other jobs in resort towns and jobs which you mostly work nights so you can ski everyday.
As far as woodward I'll let the former employee's speak on that haha.

So every single terrain park can be maintained with 3 cat operators, and 3 other employees (including the manager) who understand terrain parks??? I don't think so man...Do these key employees ever get a day off? Do you ever want features in the park to be switched up? Do you ever want jump landings to be maintained with a winch cat, or just want them to get flatter and flatter all year. I do not want to ride your 6 man migrant worker terrain park I can tell you that.

Fuck squaw hit em where it hurts. If a ski resort gets shut for mlk weekend theyre gonna catch a few cases. I wish you the best of luck sir.

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OP is wasting his time if the strike doesn’t happen during MLK weekend. Any later in the season no one will care.

I’d like to see people treated better. Im not sure the wage is it more something like every employee being guaranteed employee housing if they want it and health insurance during the season to me would be more important than a couple bucks an hour.

I don’t think the customers will side with the striking lifties either they probably want them to be poor so they can feel better about themselves for being super corporate and rich etc etc.

Also don’t forget that most of the customers aren’t rich and are irresponsibly spending too much of their money skiing. If passes double in price to pay employees more they’ll be out as regulars and maybe ski one day a year if a cheap liftopia pops up.

my experience as an employee at squaw (I work at Alpine) has been terrible. Whenever I have to interact with anyone coming over from squaw they clearly have no idea what is actually going on, or how we do things. They keep making terrible new rules like no jump building and that a coach has to go to the top even if every kid gets off at the mid station on the new lift. They also are really pushing for all kids on team to do comps, mainly race ones. I coach kids that arent at the level of choosing big mountain or race yet, and I am not allowed to bring them down jumps or teach them tricks even if they know they are going to do big mountain. Coaches keep quiting every year, and now we have a shortage. It is honestly ridiculous.

PeteMahnTo maintain a park you need a manager and 1-2 other guys who know what there doing. The rest is all general labor, setting rails, raking etc. You can teach this easily. So you need 1-2 / max 3 people who can run a cat.
As far as snowmaking my homie is a snowmaker at PC. This is his 3rd season snowmaking and is considered experienced. Besides the manager most of the workers don't have a clue what there doing and again are learning, which is why the mountains are scrambling and paying overtime wages for the experienced.

So yes just like every major city in America that's booming (L.A , N.Y, Boston etc) all the labor and blue collar work is done by a majority of minorities. There's so many studies showing how millennial's don't want to do blue collar work so someone has to do it. So why can't ski resorts get foreign workers just like every city has them completing the work. Talk to anybody in the industry working at a mountain that is "successful" meaning it makes profit in the U.S. (Its either Apart of Epic or Ikon) meaning many of the workers are J's.
These companies treat employee's like shit so rather than strike just stop working for them and smarten up. Why do all these ski bums work for them in the first place? For a ski pass and shitty employee housing where you're forced to sleep 2 feet away from your roommate with no privacy at all.
Sounds like shit to me when you can easily pay for that pass and housing with other jobs in resort towns and jobs which you mostly work nights so you can ski everyday.
As far as woodward I'll let the former employee's speak on that haha.

I could tell you were an idiot from your first post but tried to play nice but damn dude. This post confirms. Not sure if 12 or just stupid but I'm out. C ya lol

CT_CREWSo every single terrain park can be maintained with 3 cat operators, and 3 other employees (including the manager) who understand terrain parks??? I don't think so man...Do these key employees ever get a day off? Do you ever want features in the park to be switched up? Do you ever want jump landings to be maintained with a winch cat, or just want them to get flatter and flatter all year. I do not want to ride your 6 man migrant worker terrain park I can tell you that.

There was this kid on NY ski blogs who used to post similarly about how he lifts and other things at the mtns should run. Also about rollercoasters. That weird style of ignorance but posting as if they know what they're talking about. I get that this guy regrets working at woodward or whatever but hilarious that he thinks he's an expert on everything in the world.


Also OP, I'd tread lightly. Would be tough to do it right and there's plenty of risk. Not worth doing unless it's all out, and even then much less than a guarantee you would get any positive results. For whatever length you're striking they could just pay people more for OT, bring other departments over, and find randoms or ex industry folks to work as temp scabs for a decent wage.

There are some mtns out there that pay decent. Mostly smallers hills competing against big dawgs or even the larger places that are run less shitty. Even then I'm sure lifties etc are getting shafted pretty hard.

SkiBum.I’d love to see it happen.

Patrol got unionized by Vail. So it can be done.

Whatever you do it needs to get the publicity and new outlets in the major markets known. The tourists needs to know why their lifts are not running.

SkiBum.Okay I’m gonna chime in again since I’m on a plane and will be going stir crazy for the next few hours.

All this is coming from experience and knowledge of an ex upper manager at a few resorts

Wages need to change in the ski industry. No brainer there. But I don’t think they need to drastically improve. There are other ways to help. The biggest I see that needs to happen and needed to years ago is employee housing or budget housing for seasonal employees.

Housing crunch and price gouging and air B&B have totally flipped ski town housing and rentals. Resorts need to step in. Or there will be no one to flip burgers and bump chairs.

I’m not saying a walk out or protest or fight for Union is the way to do that - but I’m not against seeing it happen or having a group try. But if it’s done I need to be done correct with good planning and thought.

Thank you for these posts. Hit the nail on the head. There's really not a whole lot of support for resort workers which is mainly why me and a lot of my friends stopped working for places we loved to work at. Starting seeing a serious trend of awful management and a terrible lack of leadership and accountability and it started making our operations run like absolute shit, to the point where the jobs just werent fun anymore and it wasnt worth a free ski pass. Long-time guests/clients started noticing how bad the product they paid a premium for was, and it was just turning into a shit-eating fest with absolutely zero help from anywhere.

And housing; its a nightmare. Resorts actually book AirBnBs/Vacation rentals for the season so that workers can have housing. At least thats what our operations were doing.

**This post was edited on Jan 6th 2020 at 11:32:28am

theabortionatorThere was this kid on NY ski blogs who used to post similarly about how he lifts and other things at the mtns should run. Also about rollercoasters. That weird style of ignorance but posting as if they know what they're talking about. I get that this guy regrets working at woodward or whatever but hilarious that he thinks he's an expert on everything in the world.


Also OP, I'd tread lightly. Would be tough to do it right and there's plenty of risk. Not worth doing unless it's all out, and even then much less than a guarantee you would get any positive results. For whatever length you're striking they could just pay people more for OT, bring other departments over, and find randoms or ex industry folks to work as temp scabs for a decent wage.

There are some mtns out there that pay decent. Mostly smallers hills competing against big dawgs or even the larger places that are run less shitty. Even then I'm sure lifties etc are getting shafted pretty hard.

I'm with you these are jobs where 1 person with experience can likely do more then 3-4 noobies combined.

Also jobs where the first year guy is extremely unlikely to stick around long term.

theabortionatorAlso OP, I'd tread lightly.

Squaw Valley administration when they log in to newschoolers:

**This post was edited on Jan 6th 2020 at 11:46:07am

Super fired up about how shitty the communication has been between alterra and its employees. Still completely in the dark here at squaw about pay etc. so I sent out an email to my fellow lifties. PPL power yo lets get it Im an email activist! Here’s the gist:

Unfortunately, Squaw Valley is part of a public corporation that answers primarily to its shareholders. As low wage employees working low skill jobs, we are not seen as the human beings we are with lives that are currently being put on hold, but as numbers; statistics that must be considered in the context of profit. Since the suspension of operations, the disorganization and lack of communication from the corporate side has been astounding. The public has been aware of coronavirus since January, so excuses about how fast things are moving are not legitimate. Extremely confusing and poorly worded emails from CEO types that create more questions than they answer, like the ones just sent out, are not the solution. The fact that we still don't know if we will be paid and for how long, wether we should apply for unemployment, or wether we should be looking for new jobs is completely ridiculous, but it is to be expected in a system where lift operators don't have any direct representation within the corporation. This is why I am proposing that it may be beneficial for lift operations to become a unionized department. While unionization isn't and shouldn't be a panacea for these issues, I firmly believe that if we were currently unionized we would know a lot more than we do now about what will come of our jobs in the days to come. If you are interested in the prospect of unionization please contact me at

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fuck you boomer