Texas Church Shooting - 2 dead, gunman gets dropped by law-abiding citizens

Dustin.I've seen this statistic before and it is extremely misleading if not entirely disingenuous. That number includes all kinds of horrible things such as homeowners who shot (not necessarily killed) home invaders in self defense, parents who killed or wounded their whole families before committing suicide, police officers who responded to and shot armed criminals, and gang violence among other scenarios. Sorry, but if 1 cop is killed and 2 are wounded before one of them is able to shoot and kill the criminal that opened fire at a traffic stop...that is not a "mass shooting" in my book, and that is EXACTLY what one of those events you are citing is...to give you an example. This statistic is absolute political bullshit. It is incredibly irresponsible to imply that A) the 400+ events you are citing of 4 or more people being injured or killed are all school shootings or something like that and B) that the 400+ events you are citing are not inclusive of suicides and police incidents in which 4 or more good OR bad guys were wounded or killed. The reality is that the mass murders that we all think of and fear are incredibly rare in the US.

If you want to look at facts and see what nations are experiencing shooting related deaths at the highest rates, the US trails France, Belgium, and freaking Norway in that category. Media LOVES to push these stories, but if you really research the numbers to try to find the root cause (as I did), I think you'll be very disappointed in our leadership and the fact that they are knowingly cherry picking statistics and even changing the definitions of statistics to fit their rhetoric.

Go watch any politician speak about gun control measures they want to take and see how long it takes for them to blatantly lie about what the gun they are holding is capable of, the laws that already do and don't exist, and how the laws they want to push will help. We have TENS OF THOUSANDS of gun laws across this country and the places that see the vast majority of the violence are impoverished inner cities with crazy strict gun control laws. Our politicians are lying to us about the root cause. We have a metric fuck load of guns in the US, the number is climbing faster and faster, and gun violence is still decreasing.

I apologize. I said "shooting related deaths" in my example and it's an example specifically related to mass shooting related deaths. To clarify, I think it's a relevant point to make because much of the effort to "fix" the problem centers around banning "assault weapons"....which means AR-15's when you really ask someone....which is the same as most every other modern rifle hunting or otherwise.....and which accounts for a crazy small number of deaths in the US each year. I was trying to use data to point out that we use emotion over reason on this subject and it hurts us as a debating nation.

theabortionatorMy favorite part is 5 seconds after a shooting where 20 people die people blow up facebook with gun memes. SHaLl nOt bE iNfRIngEd

It's more about the club and look at me and all my guns. And the sick amounts of empathy are always moving.

I think the severe gun nuts do more to hurt their cases by being douchers at every turn. I was more indifferent but I think these assholes have swayed my opinion more than the shootings.

And there are a fuck ton of shootings. The idea that nothing can be done, nothing will be done, and any discussion is bad, is bullshit.

I still think if people were banned from posting pictures of their guns and talking about their guns, the will to hoard guns would drop a bunch.

When it comes down to it, it's less about protection and more about "Look at me". Political team sports are terrible, but the gun people are really pushing the douchery to a new dimension. They're generally the same lerson that internwt tough guys on wvwry facebook post on how they'd fuck somebody up if they'd have been there. Cool friggin starry bra.

True in some ways, I must say I shake my head when someone pro gun goes on TV and only wants to talk about God given rights or when I scroll past a poorly educated gun dude who creates his own personal far right propaganda on Youtube that makes him look like he cares more about his Ruger than anything else on planet Earth. Those points have their place in the conversation, but they fall on deaf ears when we can't agree on the what the problem really is and work backwards.

However, you have to understand that watching an ignorant person that is enraged by an act of violence talk about guns is about as difficult for a gun, politic, and law literate person to watch as you and I watching a random dude from the Bahamas on vacation commentate on X Games half pipe. A lot of the stuff they say is blatantly false, misleading, or driven by emotion when the facts are easily sorted through reliable sources. I'm telling you, sometimes I hear them say things and think "there's no way that's true" and the statement ends up being true, but the vast majority of the time it is unbelievable that they had the gall to say it on television.

My biggest concern is this: most deaths asserted as "gun violence" are suicides. Well over half, usually over two thirds. In my opinion, that is super fucked up because people are sidestepping the fact that we have a suicide issue that far exceeds our gun homicide issue, but people are ready to ignore if it supports an anti-gun agenda and beefs up their numbers. 12,000 gun homicides is horrible, but that's not even coming close to fatalities from car crashes to compare it to another means of death. I'm sick of seeing people cherry pick their numbers and fail to have the balls to ID the biggest issues and tackle them first. I truly believe that an ignorance of guns and media vilification of anyone knowledgable on firearms is creating massive disinformation that is distracting from much more pressing issues, as suggested by data.

Dustin.True in some ways, I must say I shake my head when someone pro gun goes on TV and only wants to talk about God given rights or when I scroll past a poorly educated gun dude who creates his own personal far right propaganda on Youtube that makes him look like he cares more about his Ruger than anything else on planet Earth. Those points have their place in the conversation, but they fall on deaf ears when we can't agree on the what the problem really is and work backwards.

However, you have to understand that watching an ignorant person that is enraged by an act of violence talk about guns is about as difficult for a gun, politic, and law literate person to watch as you and I watching a random dude from the Bahamas on vacation commentate on X Games half pipe. A lot of the stuff they say is blatantly false, misleading, or driven by emotion when the facts are easily sorted through reliable sources. I'm telling you, sometimes I hear them say things and think "there's no way that's true" and the statement ends up being true, but the vast majority of the time it is unbelievable that they had the gall to say it on television.

My biggest concern is this: most deaths asserted as "gun violence" are suicides. Well over half, usually over two thirds. In my opinion, that is super fucked up because people are sidestepping the fact that we have a suicide issue that far exceeds our gun homicide issue, but people are ready to ignore if it supports an anti-gun agenda and beefs up their numbers. 12,000 gun homicides is horrible, but that's not even coming close to fatalities from car crashes to compare it to another means of death. I'm sick of seeing people cherry pick their numbers and fail to have the balls to ID the biggest issues and tackle them first. I truly believe that an ignorance of guns and media vilification of anyone knowledgable on firearms is creating massive disinformation that is distracting from much more pressing issues, as suggested by data.

Honestly I think both sides are annoying as fuck. People get way to wrapped up in theae things and it becomes their identity almost. It's hard to look at any issue rationally when you're hopped up on memes and facebook arguments.

As far as guns not being as much of an issue as people state, it's also worth noting that people reason for owning guns is to protect themselves from other people with guns. I think that argument can go both ways. People legitimately shouldn't be afraid of a mass shooting, terrorist attack, plane crash etc. Sure I get it ,but the risk is so low compared to other things.

If I had land and wasn't always on the move I'd probably get a couple of guns. Why because I want them, and want to go shoot them. The "RES WHITE AND BLUE MURICA FREEDOM AND EAGLES PRY IT FROM MY DESD COLD FINGERS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED 2ND AMENDMENT GUNS JESUS" need to smoke a bowl, have a cocktail, jerk off a few times, and stfu.

I try and stay away from politics as well because people can't be even slightly rational. It's all about picking a side, letting that sude become your identity, building up a brotherhood hero vibe for your side, getting as riled up as possible about the otherside, throwing all logic out the window, and being a misserable bickering asshole forever.

I don't even like that hardcore element of team sports. When it comes to decisions that matter it's even worse. If people could just not be fuck heads and have normal conversations the world could be a better place. Idk, I like a good shit show as much as the next guy, but it gets old after a while. Thanks to old people getting on the intrawebz, hysteria in the media, etc, it isn't even fun.

I would vote for guns, no guns, a rep a dem, skiing snowboarding, pizza or a burger, if it meant people would shut the fuck up for even a few days.

Rabble rabble get off my lawn and my news feed