Love my Bibbys, but looking for ski to compliment..

I rode older (2014?) Bibbys for a few seasons as a daily/pow ski and was in the same boat as you looking for something smaller but still gave that stiff yet playful feel on the mountain. Personally for my ski style, I ended up landing on the moment meridians (I sold them and probably one of my worst buy/sell decisions ever because I miss them now). The meridian is a STIFF ski (I had the 187 meridians and 186 bibbys) but the full rocker gave them a quick edge to edge and excellent pivot-ability in tight spots for a larger ski. Them being stiff allowed them to not bounce on icy conditions and really lay in the edge on groomers. They were definitely a little less playful overall because of their flex but the rocker profile made them light in the air and fun to rip around on at mach 10.
I owned both bibby's and ON3P billy goats are the time and gave the bibbys to my dad and set the goats as my daily since then (3 years ago). The goats were more directional with a slightly farther back mounting point which made them a better choice for my style of skiing at the time but the meridians had the best of both worlds having the charge-ability of the goats and the playfulness of the bibbys.
The only skis ive ridden since then that gave me the bibby feel in a smaller waist were the Kartel 106s and 108s (Now the Jeffrey 108). I haven't seen the bibby 108s in action personally yet but they look and seem like a similar ski to the K108 if you wanted to stay within the Moment lineup. The PB&Js were flexy and a more park oriented ski to me over the rest so unless youre looking for more playfulness, I'd go with the Bibby 108s or K108s for all mountain playfulness or the Meridians if you want to try a new style of ski that may fill your checkmarks.

I ride on the Wildcat 108 as my everyday ski and love it. It handles groomers, moguls, ice, a bit of powder, park, and bigger mountain easily. I'm 6'2" and ride the 190's, then use the Wildcat Tour for powder.

Thanks for the replies . Kind of afraid the Wildcat 108 would be a bit too similar to 116 ? However if there is a distinguished difference for lower snow days -they might be the ticket.

I've got 2009 bibby specials I've had for 6 years. I'm sure they're a lot different than current ones, but I recommend a softer ski that feels more damp on groomers. Bibbys are so stiff I hate them on most conditons that aren't pow.

I don't think a narrower ski makes as big of a difference as the shape and flex. With that being said maybe some catamarans, jskis vacation, lines, bentchetlers. Vishnu wides look sweet. I'd do a softer ski over a narrower ski, unless that isn't ur style.

Bro the on3p woodsman 108 is not only playful but also chargy. great for the rest of the season and for west coast skiing

I currently own Bibbys, have owned the PB&Js and have skied the Wildcat 108. The Wildcat 108 is a fantastic ski for someone who wants a playful daily driver out West in soft snow conditions or when there isn’t enough new snow to bring out the Bibbys. Just okay in harder snow groomers though which is the same for the PB&J. Both are fun and stable when the snow is soft but with their rocker profile, don’t have the best edge grip when things get firm. Also found the PB&Js had tip drive when you did get snow and had skis much skinnier that didn’t have this issue.

Replaced the PB&J with the Enforcer 104 Free which is a fantastic ski for a Bibby lover not hitting the park with it. Rips even harder snow groomers, destroys crud and a blast in trees and bumps. Perfect forgiving flex with decent weight for stability.

Find my Dynastar Slicers/Menace 98 are a similar ski to the E104 in that it’s damp, solid weight and a very fun flex in the bumps. Not quite as quick carving with it’s longer turning radius but very stable at speed.

I'd stay away from wildcat 108s. Awesome ski, but very similar feel as 116's, just narrower. If thats what you really want, then go for it, but I enjoy having a variety of skis in my quiver, some more playful or more stable or whatever, makes sure that each ski gets more use, and I love choosing a different style of ski based on how i want to ski that day, not just conditions

Greg_KI currently own Bibbys, have owned the PB&Js and have skied the Wildcat 108. The Wildcat 108 is a fantastic ski for someone who wants a playful daily driver out West in soft snow conditions or when there isn’t enough new snow to bring out the Bibbys. Just okay in harder snow groomers though which is the same for the PB&J. Both are fun and stable when the snow is soft but with their rocker profile, don’t have the best edge grip when things get firm. Also found the PB&Js had tip drive when you did get snow and had skis much skinnier that didn’t have this issue.

Replaced the PB&J with the Enforcer 104 Free which is a fantastic ski for a Bibby lover not hitting the park with it. Rips even harder snow groomers, destroys crud and a blast in trees and bumps. Perfect forgiving flex with decent weight for stability.

Find my Dynastar Slicers/Menace 98 are a similar ski to the E104 in that it’s damp, solid weight and a very fun flex in the bumps. Not quite as quick carving with it’s longer turning radius but very stable at speed.

I like the idea of the Enforcer 104. Thanks. Sounds fun for groomer days where there’s some remnant soft off piste and bumps to snake through. I’m currently on 184cm Bibbys and feel perfect for what I do, age etc.. 5’10” 190 expert. What sizes are you running?

AvacadoI like the idea of the Enforcer 104. Thanks. Sounds fun for groomer days where there’s some remnant soft off piste and bumps to snake through. I’m currently on 184cm Bibbys and feel perfect for what I do, age etc.. 5’10” 190 expert. What sizes are you running?

6’2”/175 and running the 184cm Bibby too(would probably do a 190 Wildcat though) and on 186cm Enforcers 104 with the mount up 2cm to make them more playful. Have the 181cm Slicer Factory now but might order the 187cm menace 98 to make them more stable. Plus 2cm on that mount too.

Thanks everyone, leaning hard toward Enforcer 104s in 186 cm. Assuming they should be similar or easier to ski than Bibbys 184? As a mid 50s age guy liking the idea of less demanding for all conditions. Thats why I like the Bibbys for soft over my old 1st production Cochise. Just less demanding a more fun in all conditions ( even hard groomers like the Bibbys better).

AvacadoThanks everyone, leaning hard toward Enforcer 104s in 186 cm. Assuming they should be similar or easier to ski than Bibbys 184? As a mid 50s age guy liking the idea of less demanding for all conditions. Thats why I like the Bibbys for soft over my old 1st production Cochise. Just less demanding a more fun in all conditions ( even hard groomers like the Bibbys better).

Yes, very easy to ski with a softer flex than the Cochise but with a similar weight so it’s still very stable. Very good on groomers and very easy ski even at lower speeds.

AvacadoThanks everyone, leaning hard toward Enforcer 104s in 186 cm. Assuming they should be similar or easier to ski than Bibbys 184? As a mid 50s age guy liking the idea of less demanding for all conditions. Thats why I like the Bibbys for soft over my old 1st production Cochise. Just less demanding a more fun in all conditions ( even hard groomers like the Bibbys better).

Yes, very easy to ski with a softer flex than the Cochise but with a similar weight so it’s still very stable. Very good on groomers and fun to ski even at lower speeds.

Got my 186cm Enforcer 104s out for day 1 on a perfect lower snow test day out west. 2-5 inches over hard in spots, some cut up soft chop, and some harder plus softer groomers. Mounted on the line.
Nice damp directional feel and edge hold and more user friendly/less locked in and more forgiving than Cochise. Still getting used to them, but felt a little more locked in turns on soft in the trees and bumps vs. Bibbys where they can pivot /slash to be quicker to change direction or more playful in soft so to speak. Jumped on my buddy’s 184 Deathwish for a few and whoa— whole new feel (so light and playful). DW much more surfy on top and does ok (but not like E104s)) on hard groomers Loved how the DW feel in soft though being so light and maneuverable, but did feel a bit short at 184cm. Felt too over the front at times (190 would be perfect). Definitely not as damp, but could handle some rougher soft stuff at speed surfing on top feel with feedback through the skis. Very interesting difference between these two. I’ve realized it’s really about how you want ski (or style preference) and what makes it most fun for you through multitude of scenarios. I think something in between these two skis could be ideal for me. I’m going to give the E104s more time for sure, and may end up loving them like my Bibbys (but, in a different way). To summarize; E104s - a precise quicker edge to edge tool where you could haul ass on groomers and low chop & more locked in on soft. The DW is a light playful surfy quick toy for its waist. The Bibbys -a playful charger toy/tool slower edge to edge (but great for its width).

AvacadoGot my 186cm Enforcer 104s out for day 1 on a perfect lower snow test day out west. 2-5 inches over hard in spots, some cut up soft chop, and some harder plus softer groomers. Mounted on the line.
Nice damp directional feel and edge hold and more user friendly/less locked in and more forgiving than Cochise. Still getting used to them, but felt a little more locked in turns on soft in the trees and bumps vs. Bibbys where they can pivot /slash to be quicker to change direction or more playful in soft so to speak. Jumped on my buddy’s 184 Deathwish for a few and whoa— whole new feel (so light and playful). DW much more surfy on top and does ok (but not like E104s)) on hard groomers Loved how the DW feel in soft though being so light and maneuverable, but did feel a bit short at 184cm. Felt too over the front at times (190 would be perfect). Definitely not as damp, but could handle some rougher soft stuff at speed surfing on top feel with feedback through the skis. Very interesting difference between these two. I’ve realized it’s really about how you want ski (or style preference) and what makes it most fun for you through multitude of scenarios. I think something in between these two skis could be ideal for me. I’m going to give the E104s more time for sure, and may end up loving them like my Bibbys (but, in a different way). To summarize; E104s - a precise quicker edge to edge tool where you could haul ass on groomers and low chop & more locked in on soft. The DW is a light playful surfy quick toy for its waist. The Bibbys -a playful charger toy/tool slower edge to edge (but great for its width).

Your Enforcers are edge high by the sounds of it which is VERY common. Might just need a edge touch up or a stone grind to flatten the base, then touch up the edges. An edge high ski will be stuck in a turn and not easily pivot and will feel heavier to ski. A base high ski will be TOO surfy feeling and feel unstable. I’ve had to base grind every single one of my last 26 pairs of skis with the 104 Enforcer being one of them for the same issue.

You can test with a straight edge like a true bar or even a wax scrapper held across the base of the ski and look for light coming through below the bar/scrapper.

Another thing to try is grab a mill bastard file across the ski on a 45 degree angle so it doesn’t flex and drag it across the ski to see if the edges catch. Hit the areas that are catching while cleaning the file often and this will bring down the edge high spots. Then use the base bevel(1 degree) and then side bevel(88/2 degrees) to set the edges. It might just need this to improve them but if they are very uneven, you stone grind them flat and then do all these steps on the edges.

Think with a tune, you will get the surfy when flat, decent grip on edge that I have on mine.

**This post was edited on Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:58:19pm

Just noticed you’re running the Enforcer 104 on the line and that’s another big reason they don’t feel as playful or easy to pivot. The Bonafide is -11cm back from center, the Enforcer 8.85cm back and the Bibby’s -6cm and the Deathwish-5cm back. So the Enforcer will feel less traditional than a Bonafide but still not in the Moment skis range unless you bump the Enforcer mount a bit. Find plus 2cm is a good mix of great groomer carving performance still but much more playful, easier to pivot and feels lighter to ski.

So check the base flatness first and hit the edges and if you still want them more playful, bump up the mount 2cm.

Cheers

Greg_KJust noticed you’re running the Enforcer 104 on the line and that’s another big reason they don’t feel as playful or easy to pivot. The Bonafide is -11cm back from center, the Enforcer 8.85cm back and the Bibby’s -6cm and the Deathwish-5cm back. So the Enforcer will feel less traditional than a Bonafide but still not in the Moment skis range unless you bump the Enforcer mount a bit. Find plus 2cm is a good mix of great groomer carving performance still but much more playful, easier to pivot and feels lighter to ski.

So check the base flatness first and hit the edges and if you still want them more playful, bump up the mount 2cm.

Cheers

Thanks Greg! I'll try that since I recently ordered edge kit and clamps, just learning how. What do you recommend for tuning Bibbys edge angles?

AvacadoThanks Greg! I'll try that since I recently ordered edge kit and clamps, just learning how. What do you recommend for tuning Bibbys edge angles?

Perfect! Again try the file flat without guides to check for high spots first, then base, then side. Enforcers are 1 degree base, 2 side from the factory but they may vary so look for grabby sections. Thinking you’ll find high sections on the tip/tail when you do flat base file and base bevel.

Moment skis are 1/1 base and side bevels from the factory with them detuning up or back from their contact points. So with the Bibby lying on a flat surface, take note of where the tip/tail raise from the ground. The portions in the air are not sharpened(actually dulled from the factory with file/gummy Stone) and only the cambered areas under the bindings to those contact points are sharpened. So I just occasionally check the tip and tail areas on my Bibbys for any burrs by hitting them on a 45 degree angle with a gummy Stone and use stones/files with guides underfoot to the contact points.

Greg_KPerfect! Again try the file flat without guides to check for high spots first, then base, then side. Enforcers are 1 degree base, 2 side from the factory but they may vary so look for grabby sections. Thinking you’ll find high sections on the tip/tail when you do flat base file and base bevel.

Moment skis are 1/1 base and side bevels from the factory with them detuning up or back from their contact points. So with the Bibby lying on a flat surface, take note of where the tip/tail raise from the ground. The portions in the air are not sharpened(actually dulled from the factory with file/gummy Stone) and only the cambered areas under the bindings to those contact points are sharpened. So I just occasionally check the tip and tail areas on my Bibbys for any burrs by hitting them on a 45 degree angle with a gummy Stone and use stones/files with guides underfoot to the contact points.

Thanks for you help Greg,
I got around to checking my base flatness of Cochise, Bibbys, and Enforcers. Didn't have flat file or true bar, but used a metal framing square with light behind and found all have sections of bases that were not flat ( or concave areas). It wasn't drastic but enough to make me think 'wow - wonder if this affects skiing'.
I did get excited after receiving my edge tuner and and sharpened the Bibbys and Enforcers anyhow with stones to smooth out burs and sharpen up to the contact points. Only lightly did the base edges Bibbys as instructions indicated not to do too much there. Now they seem clean, sharp, and ready . Anyhow, I may just take my Cochise into a shop that has a supposedly state of the art machine that can grind flat and set base/side bevels perfectly. The Cochise seemed base high where the edges seemed lower than base material. Read that Cochise has 1.3 base and 3 side angle. Wondering if I should have them just do 1 base and 2 side (maybe 3 side) or stick with original?

AvacadoThanks for you help Greg,
I got around to checking my base flatness of Cochise, Bibbys, and Enforcers. Didn't have flat file or true bar, but used a metal framing square with light behind and found all have sections of bases that were not flat ( or concave areas). It wasn't drastic but enough to make me think 'wow - wonder if this affects skiing'.
I did get excited after receiving my edge tuner and and sharpened the Bibbys and Enforcers anyhow with stones to smooth out burs and sharpen up to the contact points. Only lightly did the base edges Bibbys as instructions indicated not to do too much there. Now they seem clean, sharp, and ready . Anyhow, I may just take my Cochise into a shop that has a supposedly state of the art machine that can grind flat and set base/side bevels perfectly. The Cochise seemed base high where the edges seemed lower than base material. Read that Cochise has 1.3 base and 3 side angle. Wondering if I should have them just do 1 base and 2 side (maybe 3 side) or stick with original?

Blizzard skis are all 1/3(1 base, 3 degrees/87 side) from the factory now and that’s what I’d put on them too.
To “reset” those Cochise edges of yours which may have a bevel larger than 1 currently, they would stone grind the bases flat which would also start hitting the edges and bring them down flatter again too, I would just get the shop to stone grind and then you can set the edges how you like if you’ve got the edge tools now. I’d still be purchasing a mill bastard file to start checking the edges on all skis before setting the edge bevels.

An easy test for base flatness is to crayon/rub on or hot wax a ski and then scrap with your flat plastic scrapper. You’d be able to see what high spots(removed wax) and low spots(wax still there) along the ski. Base flatness makes a huge difference in how the ski feels.

Got out on my 2nd day on the enforcer 104 frees in soft conditions (tracked and sluffed powder with untracked pockets and soft pack)
Loved them! However, (Greg) how do you compare these on the line vs 2cm forward? You’ve skied it both ways? Wondering if that would make them quicker in a fast speed decisive turn initiation without the tails tails get too catchy? I sharpened/smoothed edges on these with diamond stones after my first day chewing up them edges a bit on some hidden rocks and they seemed perfect. Not too catchy, yet great grip and response. Floated well for their waist and didn’t feel heavy. Smooth fairly playful scalpel that can handle a lot of speed and chunks & bumps very well.

AvacadoGot out on my 2nd day on the enforcer 104 frees in soft conditions (tracked and sluffed powder with untracked pockets and soft pack)
Loved them! However, (Greg) how do you compare these on the line vs 2cm forward? You’ve skied it both ways? Wondering if that would make them quicker in a fast speed decisive turn initiation without the tails tails get too catchy? I sharpened/smoothed edges on these with diamond stones after my first day chewing up them edges a bit on some hidden rocks and they seemed perfect. Not too catchy, yet great grip and response. Floated well for their waist and didn’t feel heavy. Smooth fairly playful scalpel that can handle a lot of speed and chunks & bumps very well.

Glad you’re liking them more! I didn’t move the bindings on my 104s as I read the Blister gear 104 review where @patagonialuke tried different mounts and knew I’d like them plus 2cm and mounted there from the beginning. My Menace 98 skis are mounted plus 2cm from their “all mountain” mount and perfect for me too.

Like most skis, you can usually move a mount +/- 2cm without issue. Forward makes a the ski “ski shorter”, easier to pivot, more playful and more balanced in the air. Moving back makes skis “ski longer” so more stable, improved carving power and improves float.

Since the Enforcer 104 mount was somewhat back at 8.9cm, a move 2cm forward moves it close to the Wildcat/Bibby’s (6cm back) mount without sacrificing stability and carving ability much.

Greg_KGlad you’re liking them more! I didn’t move the bindings on my 104s as I read the Blister gear 104 review where @patagonialuke tried different mounts and knew I’d like them plus 2cm and mounted there from the beginning. My Menace 98 skis are mounted plus 2cm from their “all mountain” mount and perfect for me too.

Like most skis, you can usually move a mount +/- 2cm without issue. Forward makes a the ski “ski shorter”, easier to pivot, more playful and more balanced in the air. Moving back makes skis “ski longer” so more stable, improved carving power and improves float.

Since the Enforcer 104 mount was somewhat back at 8.9cm, a move 2cm forward moves it close to the Wildcat/Bibby’s (6cm back) mount without sacrificing stability and carving ability much.

Yep, the Enforcer 104 skis great at +2. Swing weight is a bit lower and more balanced, and I never really thought it felt like it had too much tail behind me to feel difficult in tight spots. If you want to make the ski feel a bit quicker and more balanced, going +2 is a safe bet.

Thanks Luke and Greg, I’m going to give this ski a few more days on the line, and then possibly move forward 1.5 -2 cm. I’m pretty heavy at 195-200lbs.but usually closer to 185-190 lbs. Just don’t want to regret it being too forward Kind of wish I had a binding that adjust without drilling. Or, can you go back to the previous holes easy enough?

AvacadoThanks Luke and Greg, I’m going to give this ski a few more days on the line, and then possibly move forward 1.5 -2 cm. I’m pretty heavy at 195-200lbs.but usually closer to 185-190 lbs. Just don’t want to regret it being too forward Kind of wish I had a binding that adjust without drilling. Or, can you go back to the previous holes easy enough?

Demo binding would be the easiest to adjust as you have to fill and seal previous holes once you move a binding. Could use inserts and go between 2 holes but not worth it IMO. I’d try at the current mount again as it may be just getting used to it more.

I’d do a stone grind to make sure bases totally flat and then redo edges before I’d move the bindings if you don’t find they pivot easily enough still.

Greg_KDemo binding would be the easiest to adjust as you have to fill and seal previous holes once you move a binding. Could use inserts and go between 2 holes but not worth it IMO. I’d try at the current mount again as it may be just getting used to it more.

I’d do a stone grind to make sure bases totally flat and then redo edges before I’d move the bindings if you don’t find they pivot easily enough still.

Sounds like a good plan. Thanks for your advice about this ski. It sure has spiced things up for me this season.

Greg dropping some knowledge in here.

Greg_KYour Enforcers are edge high by the sounds of it which is VERY common. Might just need a edge touch up or a stone grind to flatten the base, then touch up the edges. An edge high ski will be stuck in a turn and not easily pivot and will feel heavier to ski. A base high ski will be TOO surfy feeling and feel unstable. I’ve had to base grind every single one of my last 26 pairs of skis with the 104 Enforcer being one of them for the same issue.

You can test with a straight edge like a true bar or even a wax scrapper held across the base of the ski and look for light coming through below the bar/scrapper.

Another thing to try is grab a mill bastard file across the ski on a 45 degree angle so it doesn’t flex and drag it across the ski to see if the edges catch. Hit the areas that are catching while cleaning the file often and this will bring down the edge high spots. Then use the base bevel(1 degree) and then side bevel(88/2 degrees) to set the edges. It might just need this to improve them but if they are very uneven, you stone grind them flat and then do all these steps on the edges.

Think with a tune, you will get the surfy when flat, decent grip on edge that I have on mine.

**This post was edited on Jan 3rd 2020 at 12:58:19pm