It looks like you are using an ad blocker. That's okay. Who doesn't? But without advertising revenue, we can't keep making this site awesome. Click the link below for instructions on disabling adblock.
Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post.
Register to become a member today!
So many resorts have lift accessed avalanche risk terrain that plenty of unprepared and unequipped people access every year. I'm just curious if people on here take precautions or just say "fuck it, ski patrol bombed today". The risk is real and inbounds avalanches happen every year and can be fatal. I'm curious if anyone cares for the "are you beeping" signs or do you just say fuck it?
Please only answer the poll if you ski these areas.
Second question, how many of you, while skiing this terrain, carry a probe and shovel to aid your fellow skier?
I don't, I feel like the chance of someone else having a beacon or ski patrol finding you in 15 mins is pretty low. I get that's kind of a shitty argument to not but there it is
It’s tough, but I don’t, both because like stated above the odds of others having beacons or being nearby (If is a solo day) are pretty damn low at my local resort, and because I’m not going to blast through the park or speed down groomers with a shovel on my back for when I’m not hitting the deep runs up top
At my local mountain Copper, you can jump to the front of the cat line if you have a beacon. So if I plan on riding the cat I bring it with me. No other gear though.
skeirmanAt my local mountain Copper, you can jump to the front of the cat line if you have a beacon. So if I plan on riding the cat I bring it with me. No other gear though.
So the locals see me skipping line with a beacon on ikon they’ll hate me like they do at Jackson where I’ve not been yet right ?
I ski alone and have an avy bag coming , so I voted for the avy bag , I’m terrified ima eat shit and slide in a tree well , and “ slightly concerned about an inbound avy “
no need for a beacon any one digs me up they’ll see my ikon pass and re bury me
FogdartThe risk is real and inbounds avalanches happen every year and can be fatal. I'm curious if anyone cares for the "are you beeping" signs or do you just say fuck it?
Well, if you're passing a sign that says "are you beeping" you're not in bounds anymore.
That being said, wearing a beacon in bounds is fine if it makes you feel better, a shovel/probe would be more useful if you're actually concerned. If you plan on going out of bounds, you should be prepared, but if you're skiing in bounds all day, its nothing to worry about.
A emergency whistle attached to your zipper is also a good thing for tree wells. That is what is dangerous about them, if there is an avvy the resort sends in the squad to look for survivors but if your a lone skier in a tree well nobody has any idea what happened to you or to bother looking for a beacon signal. At least if you have a whistle you can blast that all day and there is a good chance someone will hear and notify patrol or dig you out.
SuspiciousFishA emergency whistle attached to your zipper is also a good thing for tree wells. That is what is dangerous about them, if there is an avvy the resort sends in the squad to look for survivors but if your a lone skier in a tree well nobody has any idea what happened to you or to bother looking for a beacon signal. At least if you have a whistle you can blast that all day and there is a good chance someone will hear and notify patrol or dig you out.
That’s a good idea thanks for this
I’ve done what I can to learn not to slide down further , I’m basically planning just to assume I’m headed into a tree well and pull the bag first if I eat shit in the trees and hopefully stay out 🤷🏼♂️
SavageBiffThat’s a good idea thanks for this
I’ve done what I can to learn not to slide down further , I’m basically planning just to assume I’m headed into a tree well and pull the bag first if I eat shit in the trees and hopefully stay out 🤷🏼♂️
Check your bag too. A lot of backpacks have whistles on the chest strap
FogdartCheck your bag too. A lot of backpacks have whistles on the chest strap
Maybe I’ll eat some beans and shove one up my ass case I go in headfirst 😂 lol thx I gots a phew whistles , i ref kids baseball sometimes and just like your lighter I’m stealing your whistle too 🤷🏼♂️
no joke tho , I’ve never seen a tree well outside of YouTube but I’ve had nightmares!
SavageBiffMaybe I’ll eat some beans and shove one up my ass case I go in headfirst 😂 lol thx I gots a phew whistles , i ref kids baseball sometimes and just like your lighter I’m stealing your whistle too 🤷🏼♂️
no joke tho , I’ve never seen a tree well outside of YouTube but I’ve had nightmares!
Next time ur in the trees, stop and stick your pole in the ground next to it. You'll find a tree well almost guaranteed
I don't think it's worth carrying a beacon, but a shovel and a probe is probably a good idea if your skiing in the trees. The only time I've set off an inbound slide was in an isolated chute, that I didn't ski cut. If I was out of bounds I would have approached it more carefully. Now when I ski areas that are inbounds but not really patrolled I always treat it as if I was in the backcountry
For me it really depends on the day, what mtn I’m at, how the conditions are, etc.
really no reason to have a beacon if you’re not going to be riding on a day with low risk for an avalanche (I.E. a Sunny spring day, where the only terrain that Would have the possibility of an avalanche is actually closed)
I used to not think it was really a big deal, but this last season myself a 2 friends went out of bounds (through a legally open gate) and crossed onto forest service property. We hiked up a couloir just outside of the resort boundary, and at the top crossed over into the next chute over to come back down. I had vocalized concern about mediocre conditions in the week leading up to a snowfall the night before, all making for haphazard conditions at best. I decided to drop first, and intentionally made a “cut” on my first turn and instantly my entire peripheral vision washed away from under me and the entire gully broke free about 4-6 inches deep and slid away beneath me. I was extremely lucky to say the least, because I was more or less expecting it to happen and I was able to stay On my feet and above the crack when it came out from under me. We were able to safely make it to the bottom, and discovered that the slide had rounded a corner beyond our vision, and then gone over a cliff band roughly 150-200 feet high and landed on top of a ski patroller and one of her friends who was with her. It buried the patrollers friend to the neck, and swept the patroller off of her feet. They both had beacons and equipment ready to go, but had they both been buried it ultimately would have been my responsibility for causing the slide and potentially ending two lives. As is the case with a lot of safety equipment, when all is said and done it may not be your own life it saves.
There is very little risk of avalanches when you are skiing inbounds in BC. The place is bombed more than the middle east every day and the place gets so much traffic that the base is stomped into submission. Patrol is really careful about it too; when it begins to snow, they close that place down and post patrollers along the boundary line to make sure even the dumbest guests cant cross the line.
Insurance rates, reputation and profits are at stake if someone gets hurt or dies due to patrol negligence. Resort management prefer having lawsuits because people arent having fun than having to deal with one involving death due to negligence. The only inbound avy I have heard about are the ones in the Alps. Ive never heard about one in BC... or even Canada.
I do ride with a backpack as a back protector, but I never take out my avy gear from the pack to make sure I dont forget to put it back.
Ill have in stashed in my pack if there is a chance I will be stepping in the back country. The only reason I ride resorts is if the conditions are too sketchy to go in the backcountry.
I don't know about carrying a beacon if know one is expecting you to have it on so probably not going to waste the batteries if I am solo and inbounds. If you are passing one of those signs at an area that requires it then it is different and people will expect you to have one. Also the sign is obviously there because of the significant slide potential.
If I was skiing with a partner on a particularly high danger day for slides or just getting immersed in deep snow I would say why not if we were both equipped and had the knowledge. Of course then I would want to actually ski like I would with a partner in the backcountry and stay in each others view etc. Most people are like no friends on a pow day and won't stay in sight so then it is basically just like being solo though so basically be careful and have that whistle just in case.
I mean, why not? ESPECIALLY in Europe. We're so lucky to have incredible ski patrol all throughout the states and Canada, but it isn't unheard of. Even on days that we're bombed. Will an inbounds slide happen out here? probably not, but why not wear it. Weighs less then an iphone and the 1 freak time I need it I have it. Plus I usually have a pack on with my shovel/probe.
Last year my home mountain, Taos Ski Valley had an inbounds avalanche that killed two people. Neither of them had beacons. I had friends who were riding that day who were in the probe line looking for bodies. Taos has zero backcountry policy and does nothing to promote beacon use. The attitude is that the risk of having people ski out of bounds is too much for the ski area to assume, so its better to discourage the use of backcountry equipment and techniques. I ski at Baker now, which is the complete opposite. If you want to ride the major zones a beacon, shovel, and probe is mandatory. After two seasons of riding areas with big snow and open backcountry gates, I feel weird riding without my beacon and backpack. I also ride with a whistle on my jacket zip, keep it right next to my face so I can reach it without my hands. 99.9999% of the time its unnecessary, but having the right tools and knowing how to use them could not only save your life, but it could also enable you to save someone else's.
I ski with transceiver, shovel and probe a lot of the time but they're mandatory for accessing some of the best local resort terrain around here so lots of locals do. We also spend lots of days skiing half in resort and half in slackcountry so a lot of the time you'll be wearing them for the day anyway.
I can't ski over half of Bridger without it so... yeah. I've since made it a thing to do just in case, and most of my friends do the same. I'm a little less concerned about avalanches, and more so about tree wells in bounds.
A handful of years back, a skier got buried in an inbounds slide at Crystal. They were found by passing skiers who had gear on them. The story I've heard is they found them by probing. The buried person did not have a beacon.
At both Crystal and Alpental, there are gates, they are controlled by patrol, so somewhat of "slackcountry." Some people bring gear, others don't. I know I've been tempted to head out the gates many times when riding without gear, or times I've left my pack in the car. I think that would be a bad decision and one that I'm likely to make at some point.
Going to make an effort to ski with my gear more on pow days, even though it feels oh so liberating to ride without a backpack, especially after my photography-heavy years of skiing.
freestyler540There is very little risk of avalanches when you are skiing inbounds in BC. The place is bombed more than the middle east every day and the place gets so much traffic that the base is stomped into submission. Patrol is really careful about it too; when it begins to snow, they close that place down and post patrollers along the boundary line to make sure even the dumbest guests cant cross the line.
Insurance rates, reputation and profits are at stake if someone gets hurt or dies due to patrol negligence. Resort management prefer having lawsuits because people arent having fun than having to deal with one involving death due to negligence. The only inbound avy I have heard about are the ones in the Alps. Ive never heard about one in BC... or even Canada.
I do ride with a backpack as a back protector, but I never take out my avy gear from the pack to make sure I dont forget to put it back.
Ill have in stashed in my pack if there is a chance I will be stepping in the back country. The only reason I ride resorts is if the conditions are too sketchy to go in the backcountry.
Funny you say that. I was working at Silverstar last season, and pretty late into spring, there was an avalanche on a run called Alder Point. Silverstar is not a gnarly hill in the slightest, all below treeline with no alpine, so normally great stability. There was also a small slide on the front side on hot dog, under the shitty new gondola, where the old green summit chair used to be. Nothing major but it cut down right to the base leaving only a few cm of snow. I'd say at least a foot and a half slab.
I'm almost certain that Patrol Doesn't do any bombing, due to the safe nature of the snowpack. I might hit up one of my mates on patrol and ask them what they thought was the cause. Alder Point gets sun real early in the day, so that is probably the root cause for that.
I'm not going to start riding with a beacon any time soon, but I'll probably talk to my local patrol about how the snowpack is before I go and ski any of the more exposed runs.
boo10159I used to not think it was really a big deal, but this last season myself a 2 friends went out of bounds (through a legally open gate) and crossed onto forest service property. We hiked up a couloir just outside of the resort boundary, and at the top crossed over into the next chute over to come back down. I had vocalized concern about mediocre conditions in the week leading up to a snowfall the night before, all making for haphazard conditions at best. I decided to drop first, and intentionally made a “cut” on my first turn and instantly my entire peripheral vision washed away from under me and the entire gully broke free about 4-6 inches deep and slid away beneath me. I was extremely lucky to say the least, because I was more or less expecting it to happen and I was able to stay On my feet and above the crack when it came out from under me. We were able to safely make it to the bottom, and discovered that the slide had rounded a corner beyond our vision, and then gone over a cliff band roughly 150-200 feet high and landed on top of a ski patroller and one of her friends who was with her. It buried the patrollers friend to the neck, and swept the patroller off of her feet. They both had beacons and equipment ready to go, but had they both been buried it ultimately would have been my responsibility for causing the slide and potentially ending two lives. As is the case with a lot of safety equipment, when all is said and done it may not be your own life it saves.
Why were patrollers beneath a slide path, out of bounds?
I’m so confused.
SklarA handful of years back, a skier got buried in an inbounds slide at Crystal. They were found by passing skiers who had gear on them. The story I've heard is they found them by probing. The buried person did not have a beacon.
At both Crystal and Alpental, there are gates, they are controlled by patrol, so somewhat of "slackcountry." Some people bring gear, others don't. I know I've been tempted to head out the gates many times when riding without gear, or times I've left my pack in the car. I think that would be a bad decision and one that I'm likely to make at some point.
Going to make an effort to ski with my gear more on pow days, even though it feels oh so liberating to ride without a backpack, especially after my photography-heavy years of skiing.
Not sure if this is the same incident you're talking about (sounds a little different) - but I also heard about an inbounds slide at Crystal a couple years ago. I was told that it was a group of 3 or 4 people, all wearing beacons, and one of them was buried. The 3 others immediately started searching for her with their transceivers with no luck, until ski patrol showed up 4 minutes later with a dog that found her right away. Not sure if all of this is accurate, but I was told that her group that was looking for her never actually switched their beacons to search mode...
Point is I wonder how many of the people who carry avy gear are actually practicing with it and know what they're doing. Just having it with you is kinda pointless unless you've been trained on how to use it and have practiced somewhat recently
kittywampusNot sure if this is the same incident you're talking about (sounds a little different) - but I also heard about an inbounds slide at Crystal a couple years ago. I was told that it was a group of 3 or 4 people, all wearing beacons, and one of them was buried. The 3 others immediately started searching for her with their transceivers with no luck, until ski patrol showed up 4 minutes later with a dog that found her right away. Not sure if all of this is accurate, but I was told that her group that was looking for her never actually switched their beacons to search mode...
Point is I wonder how many of the people who carry avy gear are actually practicing with it and know what they're doing. Just having it with you is kinda pointless unless you've been trained on how to use it and have practiced somewhat recently
Yea, idk, it's definitely a rumor filled incident.
Regardless, if I'm skiing in one of those areas above, I'd like to set the expectation that everyone in my party have gear and know how to use it, the same as if we were touring away from a resort. Plus it's easy to wear and carry, so better safe than sorry.
casualWhy were patrollers beneath a slide path, out of bounds?
I’m so confused.
We left through a gate that cannot be legally closed due to forest service access, at a time when all of the gates to access the in bounds avalanche terrain was closed. Lots of people we traveling through the gate, marked in blue, but we were the only ones who went up, marked by yellow. Uphill traffic is forbidden at snowbasin, unless you are out of bounds which we were. When we got to the top, we came down the path marked with red, causing a slide at the very top of the gully (called coyote gulch) and it travelled between 1000 and 2000 yards to the bottom, where it broke over the cliff band and came to a stop in the area marked pink which was where the patroller and her friend were riding. Access to re enter the resort below this area is easy and so when the avy gates get closed, this becomes a popular area on the mountain to try and get some fresh turns. It was a total lack of judgement on our parts to even be where we were with a lack of equipment. The lesson I am trying to teach is essentially this; we had no plans to leave the resort and no preparation for the snow conditions, and ultimately put someone else in danger because of it. There was no legendary conditions that day and you wouldn’t expect to end up in a situation where a beacon was needed, but it still happened. Carrying the right equipment every time you ride can prepare you for the unexpected.
**This post was edited on Oct 22nd 2019 at 4:04:22pm
freestyler540There is very little risk of avalanches when you are skiing inbounds in BC. The place is bombed more than the middle east every day and the place gets so much traffic that the base is stomped into submission. Patrol is really careful about it too; when it begins to snow, they close that place down and post patrollers along the boundary line to make sure even the dumbest guests cant cross the line.
Insurance rates, reputation and profits are at stake if someone gets hurt or dies due to patrol negligence. Resort management prefer having lawsuits because people arent having fun than having to deal with one involving death due to negligence. The only inbound avy I have heard about are the ones in the Alps. Ive never heard about one in BC... or even Canada.
I do ride with a backpack as a back protector, but I never take out my avy gear from the pack to make sure I dont forget to put it back.
Ill have in stashed in my pack if there is a chance I will be stepping in the back country. The only reason I ride resorts is if the conditions are too sketchy to go in the backcountry.
its not like say snowbird would want you to know
or googles couldn't tell ya
In total, 45 skiers and snowboarders died from inbounds avalanches from 1950 to 2017.
I'm beeping may stash the pack at the patrol shack based on conditions and terrain
I patrol at an area with BC access points maintained by the USFS so I’m pretty familiar with how that aspect works, I’m confused more about the specifics.
my confusion is this: was the patroller and friend beyond the area boundary in the ‘side country’ area also? Or, does the terrain you skied threaten inbounds/open terrain at the area?
If the latter is true, Im surprised that snowbasin wouldn’t mitigate the terrain, even if it’s beyond the boundary/permit area, if it threatens their open terrain. Lots of areas have agreements with the FS/dept. of transportation/whatever agency to use ordinance to mitigate avalanche hazards outside the area if the area itself is within the runout zone of the path.
hell, maybe snowbasin does.
Were you in terrain you legally/technically weren’t allowed to be in? Or you just “shouldn’t” have been there?
we have terrain adjacent to our boundary that is a permanent winter closure area per CDOT as avalanches in the area threaten a highway. However, CDOT mitigates the area so we aren’t obliged to.
if the patroller was beyond the boundary, is it “semi patrolled”? Was she responding to something? Was she not supposed to be there? Or did I misunderstand and it was her day off?
on topic, I’m glad you learned a valuable lesson; safe BC travel protocols are only 50% about protecting yourself/companions. The other 50% is about protecting fellow recreationists that you may not know are even in the area.
close call....very lucky! Would’ve been ugly had there been a fatality or serious injury. But seriously, it’s good that you’ve re-evaluated your own practices/risk tolerance.
boo10159
We left through a gate that cannot be legally closed due to forest service access, at a time when all of the gates to access the in bounds avalanche terrain was closed. Lots of people we traveling through the gate, marked in blue, but we were the only ones who went up, marked by yellow. Uphill traffic is forbidden at snowbasin, unless you are out of bounds which we were. When we got to the top, we came down the path marked with red, causing a slide at the very top of the gully (called coyote gulch) and it travelled between 1000 and 2000 yards to the bottom, where it broke over the cliff band and came to a stop in the area marked pink which was where the patroller and her friend were riding. Access to re enter the resort below this area is easy and so when the avy gates get closed, this becomes a popular area on the mountain to try and get some fresh turns. It was a total lack of judgement on our parts to even be where we were with a lack of equipment. The lesson I am trying to teach is essentially this; we had no plans to leave the resort and no preparation for the snow conditions, and ultimately put someone else in danger because of it. There was no legendary conditions that day and you wouldn’t expect to end up in a situation where a beacon was needed, but it still happened. Carrying the right equipment every time you ride can prepare you for the unexpected.
**This post was edited on Oct 22nd 2019 at 4:04:22pm
If you have a beacon, I think you should wear it. If you have a shovel and probe, and especially if you carry a pack anyway, go ahead and carry them.
Here’s my thinking.
Yes, the likelihood of being caught and buried in an inbounds slide is very low. However, it’s not totally negligible. There are recent high profile examples. But, from an opportunity cost perspective, you don’t stand to lose anything by skiing with your equipment. Except maybe a few batteries.
For starters, lots of areas have beacon basins/beacon practice areas that are open to the public. So, it’s an opportunity to practice. Not only that, but a lot of times patrollers (at many areas patrollers are avy instructors, Search and Rescue members, state avalanche deployment team members, in other words, talented professional rescuers) are willing to coach you up, offer advice, etc. Pretty valuable for those that ski in the BC but maybe took an Avy1 years ago and could use some informal instruction.
Secondly, if you do decide on a whim to leave the area through a designated point, you’re prepared and don’t get powder fever and do something stupid, or have to go to the car and gear up.
Most importantly, patrol isn’t infallible. They blow it, despite the best of intentions and efforts. Conditions change rapidly at times. As has been mentioned, your best chance for survival lies in the hands of your companions. The best rescuer is the one actually on scene. Even if someone is caught and buried and is not wearing a beacon, if you see it, you might find them by keeping an eye /using clues on the surface/or by proving likely burial locations (benches, the toe, uphill of trees, etc.)
Lastly, every patroller has a beacon on. And they’re really good with them. Recco is mostly a body recovery tool and so are dogs unfortunately. I think there is 1-2 live finds ever recorded with a dog being the tool.
I know there’s an attitude that by the time patrollers will show up on scene, it’ll be too late, and while odds for survival go way down around 10-15 minutes, you CAN survive. If a slide is reported quickly, it’s very possible for patrol to have a positive probe strike on a patient wearing a beacon in a matter of minutes. It truly could be the difference between life or death.
i know this is a long post, and if you don’t agree, So be it, but I say wear one and bring your gear, because after all, why the hell now?
I don’t agree with the analogy about “you don’t bring all your camping gear on a one hour hike in the city” or something like that, because bringing all the camping gear and tent would effectively ruin the hike, or at least negatively affect it, whereas wearing your beacon has NO drawback, and shovels and probes are so compact and fit in typical packs so they just don’t bring much of an inconvenience.
hell, I like that Bridger won’t let people ride the lift without a working beacon. I wish more places restricted avy terrain that way.
If you have avy gear, it can't hurt to take it with you inbounds on those big powder days..
Slightly off topic and maybe edging on the lines of paranoia, but does anyone ever check the avalanche reports when they're skiing inbounds and avoid certain runs for a day or so?
BST_PoliceSlightly off topic and maybe edging on the lines of paranoia, but does anyone ever check the avalanche reports when they're skiing inbounds and avoid certain runs for a day or so?
Except for the very beginning of the season, the resorts and backcountry tend to have different snowpacks due to traffic and avalanche control work. So depending on the avalanche problems, observations and risks found in the avy report might not always apply to inbound terrain.
That being said, I do check the avy report even on days I'm planning to stay inbound, not to avoid specific runs, but because there is always the possibility of heading out a gate, and also to be aware of the history of the snowpack and how things are evolving for when I am in the backcountry.
BST_PoliceSlightly off topic and maybe edging on the lines of paranoia, but does anyone ever check the avalanche reports when they're skiing inbounds and avoid certain runs for a day or so?
Monsieur_PatateExcept for the very beginning of the season, the resorts and backcountry tend to have different snowpacks due to traffic and avalanche control work. So depending on the avalanche problems, observations and risks found in the avy report might not always apply to inbound terrain.
That being said, I do check the avy report even on days I'm planning to stay inbound, not to avoid specific runs, but because there is always the possibility of heading out a gate, and also to be aware of the history of the snowpack and how things are evolving for when I am in the backcountry.
Yeah MP is right on about the difference between AC terrain and uncontrolled terrain. It's not like you are going to go dig a pit inside the resort and hopefully they have been doing things to keep the same layers from forming that might be observed in pits outside the ski area.
The point about being aware of avalanche history and what is potential avalanche terrain is pretty important though. The OGs they interviewed at that place in Idaho had all witnessed slides in that spot in the past. One old guy they quoted talked about being in an avalanche up there himself. So yeah if a place has slid while it was open in the past that seem like something to take into consideration.
Major vibes to everyone there though. Seems like a super fun and popular place to ski and so many factors so don't want to sound disrespectful with all the hindsight talk
BST_PoliceSlightly off topic and maybe edging on the lines of paranoia, but does anyone ever check the avalanche reports when they're skiing inbounds and avoid certain runs for a day or so?
Yes because Bridger. It is more of a way to control skier access to make sure that Jerries don't get themselves stuck most days in my opinion. But on deep days the avy danger danger can be pretty scary even after control work is done so it's really important to know the aspect that you are skiing and ski smartly and communicate with your group. I also use a walkie talkie to communicate with my ski partners when we're skiing unknown terrain
