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Torn on what skis - all mountain in Val d'isere for a season
Dynastar Menace 98 sounds wack I know but unbelievable ski. I work in a shop in Whistler and got to test pretty much every ski on the market last year and these things blew me away. Sound perfect for what your situation is. I wouldn't get the chetlers I have a set of the 120s and love them but the 100s are soft af and just weren't that fun. Arv's would be good but I'd probably go for the 96 for Val d'Isere. I helped way too may poor kids with ON3P skis that fell apart this year and they wouldn't warranty them so I'd steer clear of them. I also have a set of CT2s great ski maybe not the most stable but super light and easy to throw around particularly in the park.
Other skis I'd consider would be the Nordica enforcer 104 new ski for this year very similar to the 100 but a lot more fun and also take a look at the blizzard rustler 10 its a solid ripper that does everything very well.
I was the same as you read a lot of reviews but when it came down to it skiing them was entirely different. If I were you I'd try demo as many as you can before you buy and see what you like the most
Great recommendations above on skis as I own both the Enforcer 104 and Dynastar Slicer(renamed Menace 98 this year but same ski) and they are both great. The Enforcer 104 would be the groomer/carving king of this group and does very well off piste and in moguls. Not really a park ski but pretty playful with the binding mount a few cm forward of rec.
The Dynastar Slicer/Menace 98 is a well built ski with a solid flex underfoot but playful tip/tail that’s a bit heavier than most wide park skis but that’s what helps it in crud and at speed. Mount this ski between the park and all mountain lines(4.75cm back from center). The best part is the price especially in Europe as it’s so widely available there. I got last years Slicer Factory skis with Attack2 13 installed for under $325 US! Great deal for that ski. I would put this ski near my top pick for your needs as well. Check out Blistergear for a great review of the Menace 98.
Mattgeraghty3I helped way too may poor kids with ON3P skis that fell apart this year and they wouldn't warranty them so I'd steer clear of them.
Falling appart because of rails ? rocks ? not enough durable ? I am really curious, was considering several brands and I retained ON3P for their supposedly durability.
KunderaFalling appart because of rails ? rocks ? not enough durable ? I am really curious, was considering several brands and I retained ON3P for their supposedly durability.
Ye I'd read a lot on here about their durability being good too but I had 2 sets of skis come into us this year that had cracked edges from riding rails and one that the core rotted on and the mount was perfect as far as we could tell. Could easily have been just a once off but from what we were told the customer support on their end was pretty shitty
Mattgeraghty3Ye I'd read a lot on here about their durability being good too but I had 2 sets of skis come into us this year that had cracked edges from riding rails and one that the core rotted on and the mount was perfect as far as we could tell. Could easily have been just a once off but from what we were told the customer support on their end was pretty shitty
Every edge cracks at some point when riding a lot of rails and ON3P uses the thickest. My Kartel still hasnt got one after three years.
Althouhh I never had a warranty claim, Scott and his team were extremely helpful with every email I sent them. Whether regarding mountpoint, tuning or whatever. Really cant say anything bad about them.
Sounds like a lot of hear-say.
I've messages this all directly to Matt, as I think his statements are based upon what the customers told him, which I suspect wasn't a complete representation of the situation - and had hoped to have a discussion with him before I posted here, but given the state of the thread will just move forward and respond now (though Matt, feel free to respond if you want to discuss further).
KunderaFalling appart because of rails ? rocks ? not enough durable ? I am really curious, was considering several brands and I retained ON3P for their supposedly durability.
Mattgeraghty3Ye I'd read a lot on here about their durability being good too but I had 2 sets of skis come into us this year that had cracked edges from riding rails and one that the core rotted on and the mount was perfect as far as we could tell. Could easily have been just a once off but from what we were told the customer support on their end was pretty shitty
As Matt noted, this pertains to (2) sets of skis. I'm not fully sure who the first set is, we have records of only 5 customer contacts related to a ski issue going back to 2017 out of Whistler, and not seeing a specific one that would fall into category one.
I am assuming it is someone who called about getting skis replaced with edge cracks, and that we explained over the phone that we don't do that, but email us and we can see how to help, etc, etc.
As with all brands, we don't warranty edge cracks. It's not manufacturing defect - which is what a warranty is for. That said, for all skis within 2 years of the purchase date, we offer free repairs for any park skis that have rail damage. I personally do those repairs - so for full transparency (especially lately) it can take awhile as I am doing them outside my role as CEO - but I am also the best at doing the repairs and try to ensure skis can last as long as they can when skiing park.
As such, the customer with cracked edges from riding rails would have received that same offer - which included a free repair, refinishing the skis, and covering the cost of shipping back to Canada. That is offered standard to ALL our customers, so if that
constitutes "shitty" customer service, it is what it is. I don't know of other brands willing to repair skis from park damage, nor is anyone warrantying skis for park damage for the easily understandable reason that park damage is not related to a manufacturing issue.
The second ski in question is a ski and customer I am very familiar with. For the sake of everyone involved, I've made sure to not include any personal information, as I don't have any ill will towards this customer (pretty sure he is on NS) or the shop involved, but in the realm of customer service interactions, he certainly falls in the memorable category.
Here is a timeline of our interactions with him to date. Again, I leave this up to NS to determine if this level of customer service constitutes a failure on our part.
1) March 2018 - Customer bought Kartel 98 on Proform
2) Late December 2018 - Custom filed out warranty app for an edge crack. We stated 1) we don't warranty edge cracks, 2) we can repair them for you, at not charge, and cover return costs but 3) give how small it is, it would be easiest and quickest to fix it yourself, so we offered instruction on how to fix the skis (no fix was attempted).
3) Jan 5th, 2019 - Custom filled out warranty app for a binding pullout. The photos are crystal clear that the core was rotted out (very clear when the core material is black) - clearly showing water had been getting in the ski. We don't build our skis with water in the core.
After several lengthy phone conversations, we basically said he should plug and remount the skis, but also offered him what is essentially a crash replacement discount (aka...a discount on skis that don't fall under warranty), and stated we would cover the cost of shipping the skis up + importing them into Canada.
We had also offered to send him up a single ski, if available.
So by this point, he has the offer to:
A) Repair edge damage
B) New single ski when available, post repair, at no charge
C) Discount code + shipping/customs covered (and for this, he had a code in hand).
This was our final customer contact for the month of January.
4) Jan 14th, 2019 - We received an email from the shop manager of the shop who mounted the skis. They were unhappy as they were essentially told that we were specifically blaming them for the damage (which is understandable if that was the full picture). I've posted the main part of my email response below, which I think explains our positioning and how we process warranties - which is to trust the skis themselves. In that process, we were provided photos by the shop to show that the skis were mounted with glue (one of the several reasons we expressed could have caused the pullout). Those photos showed multiple binding screws completely rusted out.
Again - our intent here isn't to pass blame - only treat both customers and ourselves under the same standard. And when a ski comes in, the core is black, and the screws are literally red with rust, there is no mystery what caused the core to rot - and none of it come from us.
This is my response to said shop, send Jan 15th, which timestamps everything I stated above.
I have removed all personal info besides my own, because I think at debate here is not the actions of the customer or shop (to which I have no issues with), but the customer service policies and approach to ski damage we have established to be both fair to our customers & ON3P over the past decade.
With the information provided from the shop to us, and our reply, I think both of ON3P and the Shop understood where we were coming from.
5) Jan 16th, 2019 - Customer uses crash replacement discount code to buy replacement pair. We cover shipping + taxes on the shipment.
6) May 10th, 2019 - Customer files another warranty app (3rd now) after snapping one of the skis from the replacement pair (folding impact that broke the composite layer). We ship - at our expense - a brand new single up.
And that is where we are.
I think I've made clear on here a lot - we're not a charity and not going to give our customers a blank check. Sorry. That is an unrealistic expectation of any brand and we think that people should take some personal responsibility for how they manage the tools they use to ski on.
I've also said a ton - maintain your park skis. A little goes a LONG way. I have employees that are still skiing on Jeronimos as their park skis...which we cut in like 2015. They spend probably 20 minutes maintaining them per month and that makes a huge difference when it comes to keeping skis available when hitting rails.
As you can tell above, I feel pretty comfortable laying our why we make the decisions we do regarding warranties. I know not everyone likes them. That sucks, but I am ok with that, because I know we do what we can (which in our experience has generally been received in a very positive way) while falling within some level of framework that 1) determines what is and isn't a warranty and 2) treats everyone on a level playing field. It is a lot easier to let the skis determine the outcome, as that is the center of what the discussion is about.
For what it is worth, we have so few warranty applications that if you apply, it is very likely I not only remember you, but how you approached the warranty (aka - please help me, vs give me new skis now), what the issue was, and what the response or replacement was. I'm sure that has been blurred over the years a bit, but the volume is low enough that I usually have a very strong pulse of what issues people are having, what the customer service response was, and the final outcome.
A couple others things. We're far from perfect. We're a much smaller company than people think, things fall thru the cracks, we struggle at times to keep up with the huge volume of emails, chats, calls, and other messages we receive. But we do the best we can, care a lot about the customers who buy our skis & the skis we build, and try to go above and beyond when we can, so the insulation that the level of customer service we provide is shitty (aka a complete unwillingness to help) would generally not match how we feel we conduct ourselves. Just note, we also won't be a pushover and are comfortable telling a customer when they are wrong.
Lastly - no disrespect to Matt, the shop in Whistler, or the customer from above. I truly hold none ill will there. Their opinions were formed by the information they had - which I am sure is not the birds eye view I had above. That said, given the discussion, I don't think I have any choice but to respond in detail.
If the above constitutes shitty customer service, by all means, let me know. We do listen. We do want to get better. Sometimes that is hard, but know we're constantly working on taking steps to be a better company each day.
I'm about to do my second season, this one in Val d'isere.
I'm stupid excited and so spend far too much time reading ski reviews, meaning I keep changing my mind on which skis to buy.
I'd say I ski 40/40/20 off piste/on piste/park.
Looking at bent chetlers, arv 106's, k2 marksman, ON3P Jeffrey 108's etc or maybe the faction CT2
I like to ski pretty aggressive so whilst I want something fun it needs to be pretty stable.
Cheers for any help :)
**This thread was edited on Sep 18th 2019 at 8:30:49am
OP - all the skis above are fun, with different pluses and minuses. We're obviously biased, but if you have any specific questions on our skis, just shoot us an email (info AT on3pskis DOT com). Happy to walk you through any questions you have about our skis. If you are aggressive and want something on the more stable end, particularly in softer snow, the Jeffrey 108 is a great option and what almost everyone at the factory skis everyday. Sorry for the novel taking over your post for a minute.
Mattgeraghty3Ye I'd read a lot on here about their durability being good too but I had 2 sets of skis come into us this year that had cracked edges from riding rails and one that the core rotted on and the mount was perfect as far as we could tell. Could easily have been just a once off but from what we were told the customer support on their end was pretty shitty
Just wanted to post that Matt & I chatted and given what he was told, his opinion and statements would be 100% justified and correct. I had expected that to be the case, but after talking, he did confirm that basically everything I posted above was not shared with the shop, and instead of the opposite (no help being offered) was stated, which is unfortunate and just increases the confusion and complexity and pits two parties against each other when in fact they are not.
So just want to be clear that given his perspective, he post was totally legit, and make sure that my response is viewed in generalities and as some insight into how we process customer service issues (as this isn't the first, nor will it be the last time we discuss ON3P customer service on here).
Hope that helps to offer further clarity on the situation.
