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Being from Europe I didn't realize how strong the national propaganda was in the US until moving here. This stuff is everywhere and is a big part of the culture. It's kind of fascinating, in school we learned about propaganda, with examples from regimes like Soviet Russia, and while it is obviously not to the same extent here, the rhetoric and methods are similar, it's very interesting.
Realizing that helps me put people like frenchy into perspective. The other day I was reading about this guy who slammed a teenage boy headfirst into the ground because apparently, the kid had kept his hat on during the national anthem. You have people being, for lack of a better word, "brainwashed" from a young age, with intellectual limitations who take everything at face value and don't realize the irony of it all. They want to act like patriots and say they would die for the flag or the anthem, not realizing that their behavior is actually an insult to what these really stand for, not a song or a piece of fabric, but the values they represent, such as the freedom to sit, wear a hat, or not give a shit about the anthem. Truly fascinating stuff.
I've been all over the world and I'll tell you that the country where I witnessed the strongest national pride is most definitely the USA. I haven't been to all the countries of course, but I think it's safe to say it's definitely ranking pretty high in that regard, so I'm surprised that you'd feel Americans are lacking national pride. A quick Google search also seems to support that.
Regarding the affection of other countries for their flag, I think you're also mistaken. For example, you'd be hard-pressed to find a house waving a flag pretty much anywhere else in the world, whereas in the US every other house is waving the US flag. Additionally, for pretty much anything you can buy here, there is a version of it with the US flag printed on it. From cups to underwear, fucking everything. If there is one thing Americans love, it's their flag.
I mean, sure, pretty much everyone has affection for their country, but you seem to imply that every other country has more affection for their flag and national pride than the USA, and I think you are very wrong on that and you'd be surprised to see that it's actually the opposite.
Finally, regarding the pledge of allegiance, I'm not sure kids should be forced to pledge allegiance to a piece of fabric, or to anything, for that matter. Free people shouldn't be forced to do that IMO. Feels a bit anachronistic and gives off a propaganda vibe. But again, just my personal opinion. I think some Asian countries do something similar.
there wouldnt have needed to be a d day
but the surrender monkey frogs sure werent gona git shit done without it wavin white flags
im laughing cause tops gots frenchys gats locked in the armory
and he only gits to carry when uncle sam and his assclown oompa loompa cinc let him
Every country has pride to an extent some more than others. Hell people with their home town or state. Over the top nationalism is fucked though and it's why people are racist fucks or smashing childrens skulls in over a song.
Unfettered national pride isn't a good thing at all imo. There's a difference between liking America and being blind with national pride.
The way you view the world, the people around you, and the policies this country runs in needs to come down to more than "White America is the best, every other county is inferior. If there's even one thing you disagree with I'll fucking fight you. Red white and blue. Freedom and eagles pussy!"
That gets us nowhere but is also how far too many Americans look at it. And it's 2019. Being forced to say the pledge is outdated af imo. I'm not worried that people might be communists if they don't say it. This isn't the 40s-50s.
You have to be open to some level of discord. If you blindly support everything this country does, that's not good. It's like a football game. If your team and my team do the same thing your team are cheating fucks, my team is getting bullshit calls, you're all a bunch of pussies. Thats fine for a game but doesn't translate into running a country.
There are plenty of thing's that are great about America, but if you can't talk about the failures as well. You have nothing.
Also the rest of the rest of the world that the geographically isolated, xenophobic fucks shit on or ignore, is pretty fucking sweet. America isn't some magically golden land in a world of trash.
Think America is great, be stoked you're born there or whatever; but don't be a fucking asshole. This country is full of assholes.
*Also you is regarding people not necessarily you specifically.
I wasn't saying that the pledge is ruining the world. I just think the nationalism in this country is kind of fucked. AS you mentioned plenty of other countries have national pride, hell some of those people hate the people from the countries around them. Maybe it's just being here seeing more although I feel(whether correct or not) that some other places it's a decent thing. Bringing people together, but they live close enough with their neighbors that they aren't so isolated.
We fucking hate Mexico/Mexicans. Canada is just that mellower America ish place above us, and everything else is an ocean away. It depends on where you are but a lot of the small towns especially that' I've lived in the racism/nationalism/xenophobia is thriving.
I don't think there's anything wrong with flags, celebrating the fuck out of the 4th. I don't think those are bad things all. But I've definitely run into "America is the greatest nation, fuck everyone else" people on the regular throughout my life. Maybe my hometown in NY is different than other places, but I've seen it a lot of the places in the states, and through media.
Like nationalism versus national pride/patriotism. You can be stoked to be from America, live it up, fly that flag, America is a great place. The nationalism is when it get's more into the superiority side of things. With our size and isolation from the world, people here feel disconnected.
If we're going to invade half the planet for our empire, we should at least have understanding of the world beyond "YEee America".
The amount of people saying things like "If I saw somebody sit through the pledge I'd fuck them up" And that was the most PC least racist version I heard. The fucking guy last week that smashed a kids skull over a fucking song. That sentiment is everywhere. There are far too many people who care more about a flag, a song, a tradition, than the country and the people those symbols represent.
I don't think the rest of the world is nearly is disconnected, but even if I'm wrong, If we're so great, so free, so awesome, then I truly believe we can do better.
Maybe I just find some shit people in the places I've lived/stayed. Idk. Plenty of awesome people, plenty of great places, even if It's isolated to some extent to the areas and rando people I've come across, it's still too many. On the TV/Social media it seems to back that up that plenty of people feel that way. My parents watch fox all day and even watching that when visiting them I've heard some pretty wild shit.
America is a great place, it really is. A beautiful diverse country both in landscape and in people. I just think some people need to slow their roll a bit. Discussions especially politics seem to be more of a lynch mob formed on knee jerk reactions than sensible well thought out ideas. Not even a shot at republicans. The whole censorship thing is pretty fucked right now too.
Sparknotes: America is a pretty cool place, racist nationalists suck, the rest of the world exists, let's actually make America great again.
Monsieur_PatateRealizing that helps me put people like frenchy into perspective. The other day I was reading about this guy who slammed a teenage boy headfirst into the ground because apparently, the kid had kept his hat on during the national anthem. You have people being, for lack of a better word, "brainwashed" from a young age, with intellectual limitations who take everything at face value and don't realize the irony of it all. They want to act like patriots and say they would die for the flag or the anthem, not realizing that their behavior is actually an insult to what these really stand for, not a song or a piece of fabric, but the values they represent, such as the freedom to sit, wear a hat, or not give a shit about the anthem. Truly fascinating stuff.
Monsieur_PatateFinally, regarding the pledge of allegiance, I'm not sure kids should be forced to pledge allegiance to a piece of fabric, or to anything, for that matter. Free people shouldn't be forced to do that IMO. Feels a bit anachronistic and gives off a propaganda vibe. But again, just my personal opinion. I think some Asian countries do something similar.
Okay this is my last time opening this thread because some of you are so fkn stupid. It's not just "a piece of fabric" my god that pissed me off. I'm not super patriotic man, i'm really not. I fucking root for canada in most olympic sports and i dont go around flying/wearing american flags... you might THINK i'm some super redneck dude but i'm reallllly not.
Not just a piece of fabric. represents a lot more than that. and its honestly really sad that some of you think of it like that...
.frenchyOkay this is my last time opening this thread because some of you are so fkn stupid. It's not just "a piece of fabric" my god that pissed me off. I'm not super patriotic man, i'm really not. I fucking root for canada in most olympic sports and i dont go around flying/wearing american flags... you might THINK i'm some super redneck dude but i'm reallllly not.
Not just a piece of fabric. represents a lot more than that. and its honestly really sad that some of you think of it like that...
AWWW IS LIL TRUMPIE JR TRIGGERED BY FREE THOUGHT AND COMMON SENSE? I SAW A FLAG THAT WAS DRESSED SLUTTY IN A BAD PART OF TOWN THAT'S BEGGING TO BE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED. GET TO IT, COMRADE TRUMPIE BOY. NUTHIN SAYS PATRIOT LIKE FUCKING A FLAG. GRAB EM BY THE FABRIC! MAGA
I have never understood the "proud to be American thing".
We're literally the laughing stock of the world and other countries HATE Americans. We're arrogant, ignorant, fat, stupid, and increasingly racist/xenophobic. Having the pledge and "America is the greatest country in the existence of earth" drilled into our minds since childhood has created an alarming sense of blind pride that causes people to NEVER question the government/military and so many of the messed up things we do.
internally orchastrated. deep state, The Cabal, Kybalion, Draconian Law, Illumanti, Freemasonary, Skull and Bones, Fiat currency, Council of 200, Werner Von Braun, Knights Templar, VRIL society, Gary Mckinnon, and Corporatcracy. what can amerika do? you need to start asking better questions than one so broadly stated. research, research, research. wikileaks is great, google is censored and tailored to how you use it.
The problem isnt Nationalism, its extreme groups on both side that sit in internet echo chambers then go apeshit on each other when they finally meet in real life.
theabortionatorI still think it's wild that we still say the pledge in schools. What year is it? "I pledge allegiance to this piece of fabric and promise that I'm not a communist".
The pledge of allegiance is Un-American as hell. Besides, it basically started as a sales gimmick then caught on until it became part of our society:
SuspiciousFishThe pledge of allegiance is Un-American as hell. Besides, it basically started as a sales gimmick then caught on until it became part of our society:
SuspiciousFishThe pledge of allegiance is Un-American as hell. Besides, it basically started as a sales gimmick then caught on until it became part of our society:
I firmly believe the founding fathers would be pissed if they knew kids in government schools were made to do this.
Funny because the national anthem being played at sports games was only because it was in honor of players who were overseas during WWII. Its an outdated tradition by 80 years. These so-called "patriots" are nothing but a bunch of uneducated jackasses.
GrandThingsI have never understood the "proud to be American thing".
We're literally the laughing stock of the world and other countries HATE Americans. We're arrogant, ignorant, fat, stupid, and increasingly racist/xenophobic. Having the pledge and "America is the greatest country in the existence of earth" drilled into our minds since childhood has created an alarming sense of blind pride that causes people to NEVER question the government/military and so many of the messed up things we do.
Sweeping generalizations of an entire nation is the exact same behavior you seem to be mocking.
It could just be that my opinions are fringe but I've seen more than 3%. That said most people are generally pretty decent and trying to do the best they can.
BiffbarfSweeping generalizations of an entire nation is the exact same behavior you seem to be mocking.
Except these aren't generalizations, they're real statistics. More than half of the American population is considered obese and almost 75% is considered overweight. Additionally, only 30% receive even a bachelors degree. This majority isnt a group that I would be "proud to be a part of". I'm certainly not saying you need to be in-shape and be a college graduate to be successful, but you cant deny that the AVERAGE American's life is on a steep decline. IMO largely due to our own laziness.
The thing that bothers me the most is that many organizations/companies tell you, "when traveling abroad, say you're from Canada or Australia" because the people of the world have such a shit opinion of our country . I'm not denying that there are countless, amazing benefits of being American and growing up here, I'm just saying I dont understand why I would be "prideful" of a country that does more harm than good.
We're likely not going to change each other's minds, but no company/organization/service has ever told me to hide where I'm from.
Real life isn't social media comment sections. Even if foreign colleagues hate that I'm American, they've maintained dignity and kept it to themselves.
BMI and bachelor's degrees mean nothing to me. Some of the most salt of the earth, honest, and hard working people I know built business empires off high school diplomas and drive-thru fast nasty for lunch. They'll give you an open ear, a warm meal, a place to stay and even their XX-L shirt off their back.
I'm prideful for how fertile this nation is for opportunity. I'm proud of the achievements of Americans that benefit people all of the world. I'm proud that, though there's been stains on the fabric of our nation, there's people who feel enough national pride to take action for a better future for all.
More harm than good may be a stretch, no nation is perfect.
BiffbarfWe're likely not going to change each other's minds, but no company/organization/service has ever told me to hide where I'm from.
Real life isn't social media comment sections. Even if foreign colleagues hate that I'm American, they've maintained dignity and kept it to themselves.
BMI and bachelor's degrees mean nothing to me. Some of the most salt of the earth, honest, and hard working people I know built business empires off high school diplomas and drive-thru fast nasty for lunch. They'll give you an open ear, a warm meal, a place to stay and even their XX-L shirt off their back.
I'm prideful for how fertile this nation is for opportunity. I'm proud of the achievements of Americans that benefit people all of the world. I'm proud that, though there's been stains on the fabric of our nation, there's people who feel enough national pride to take action for a better future for all.
More harm than good may be a stretch, no nation is perfect.
Honestly tho, you do make some good points, I wasnt really considering the achievements of Americans that have benefited the global social econmy - that is certainly something that makes me proud to be American.
I'm also certainly not trying to suggest that fat/uneducated folks are bad people and I don't think your weight/education level have to dictate your success in life - "How far you go" is 100% on the individual and how hard you're willing to work. Some of the most idiotic people I've met graduated from Ivies, and some of the guys I worked with in my Dad's machine shop are more down to earth and intelligent than people I work with now.
I was just trying to point out that my characterization of the average American isn't a generalization, but becoming an increasingly alarming and (IMO unfortunate fact). I think the reality is that these people, rather than pull themselves up by their bootstraps and do the work - will blame their situation on the "other". I think this is where so much of the tension in our country is coming from and why I get so frustrated with the "fat-average American"
I do have two questions tho
1) I didnt understand your point about "social-media comment section"
2) The pic you posted (I took it out for thread length) - is exactly what I'm talking about. That makes you proud to be American??
There's much less chest-beating and shit-slinging IRL than on social media. People are more accepting and tolerant of cultural differences face to face than they'd lead you to believe online.
The picture's just a funny caricature, it doesn't bother me because it doesn't represent me, my family, or my friends. A picture of what I'm proud of probably wouldn't be as entertaining.
Really sick of this thread but I guess I'll put in my 2 cents:
The PoA in schools is in poor taste. Basically propaganda. Should be removed. That's all.
However, referring to the flag as "just a piece of cloth" is nothing more than an attempt to illegitimize it. That's like saying someone's mother/father/wife/husband has no meaning or value bc they are a "bunch of cells". The flag has meaning and value just like any other symbol in our lives. To some it may symbolize good, to others evil, do with it what you will bc it (should be) a free country...but yeah I just hate it when people call it a cloth bc it's not representative of what it really means.
buyfulltiltsReally sick of this thread but I guess I'll put in my 2 cents:
The PoA in schools is in poor taste. Basically propaganda. Should be removed. That's all.
However, referring to the flag as "just a piece of cloth" is nothing more than an attempt to illegitimize it. That's like saying someone's mother/father/wife/husband has no meaning or value bc they are a "bunch of cells". The flag has meaning and value just like any other symbol in our lives. To some it may symbolize good, to others evil, do with it what you will bc it (should be) a free country...but yeah I just hate it when people call it a cloth bc it's not representative of what it really means.
I think what most people mean by that is that the flag itself is nothing, only the values behind it matter. Meaning getting all worked up and becoming aggressive because someone dropped a flag or kept their hat during the anthem when it clearly was never meant as a sign of disrespect is pretty idiotic. Intent matters.
Just recently this soccer lady dropped a flag on the pitch as she was celebrating winning the world cup, and people on social media lost their shit. Do you think that at any point her intent was to disrespect anyone or anything? People need to cool their tits, shit is getting out of control.
Bruh you just think about me in your free time? Like twiddlin your hair in curls Layin on your bed leavin lipstick kisses on a picture of me bruh? Bc it feels like it.
X_ANKILLABruh you just think about me in your free time? Like twiddlin your hair in curls Layin on your bed leavin lipstick kisses on a picture of me bruh? Bc it feels like it.
Is there something wrong with that bruh? Homophobic bruh? Insecure about your own sexuality bruh?
