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oldmanskiI completely agree, every situation is different and there is no telling exactly what myself or anyone else will do in a situation like a shooting. I’m just saying, educate yourself on gun handling, get use to shooting a gun, be in control of you and be halfway prepared for someone coming at you. It’s horrible things are getting this way in the states but luck favors the prepared.
. I got no beef with you, you don’t know me and I don’t know you so let’s just leave it at that.
**This post was edited on Aug 6th 2019 at 8:24:51pm
**This post was edited on Aug 6th 2019 at 8:28:51pm
You're just another flag fucking, Trump butthole sucking pussy. "DUrrrr I wuld like totz stop any mass shooters! Believe me cuz I never done it befure but I believs in 2nd Amendment so hard I would do it in a seconds!"
You fucking pussies do nothing but cite "what if" and "it coulda been worse" dreams to back up your delusional view of how society should function. Show me one study, any evidence of the bullshit you're spewing. Go ahead and say this baseless crap to a parent who lost a 5 year old in Newtown, a parent who lost a teen in Parkland or anyone who lost someone in the massacre in Vegas about how more guns make us safer and everything would have been fine if your Capt. American ass was there to save everyone.
Go ahead, you pussy. Let's see it. So far all we see is a bunch of talk from another gun-toting bitch with nothing to back it up. I'm sure they'd like totz respect you and your concealed carry permit.
I've been agreeing with you more and more lately. It needs to be either a full psych examination before purchasing a gun, although honestly I dont know that would help. Or perhaps gun background checks should include anything you did as a kid. That might help. Honestly our gun system should be far more like japans
skiermanOh and Ohio and Texas are both concealed carry states. Where are these good guys with guns? Buncha fucking pussies.
iFlipUnfortunately this thread has already been done, for one of the past shootings. This is an incredible problem in America with no good solution. So many people will blame guns but when it comes down to it, it is a very troubled individual who pulled the trigger. Mental health in America needs a lot more attention, but that is difficult to do. Seizing guns and making law-abiding Americans into criminals is not the answer, of that I am certain.
The same people freaking out about gun control saying "guns aren't a problem, it's mental health" are generally the same people against any progressive changes to our health care system.
Sometimes people with mental health problems don't go and get help anyway, but when they literally can't, it's a pretty fucked up situation.
And though guns are not THE problem, they are a massive problem. The gun culture in the states is absolutely a major player in this issue.
There's no easy solution unfortunately, and thanks to all the heavy gun hoarders can't really do much to curb things. The absolute worst thing we can do is to arm everyone in the states.
I'm fine with people having guns, but most people are full of shit. The amount of times people have legitimately protected themselves with their guns versus bad things happening with their guns is pretty interesting. Also people are never going to stand up to the government(don't tread on me dude) with their shitty collection of guns. This isn't the fucking 1700's. Also a lot of it comes down to just another collection. Some people have vintage skateboards, some people collect wine bottles, some people collect guns.
I'm not arguing that people shouldn't be able to have them, but it really doesn't come down to safety. And even if that's their reasoning, it's wrong a good chunk of the time.
But as usual it's unlikely we'll make any progress on gun control, do anything to fix health care, and people will keep saying "There's just nothing that could be done to prevent this" in a nation where there is clearly a massive issue.
.frenchynot trying to be that guy, or sound like an asshole at all but... you don't have to make a thread about every shooting. we all know america has a problem. pretty impossible to fix, this shit didn't used to happen and we had about the same amount of guns.
I mean, if you're complaining on making a thread every time there's a shooting, there's kind of a problem. Maybe if there wasn't a mass shooting every month in the states there would be less threads.
skiermanWhy in the hell is this the only country where this is regular? Well tell me why in the hell is this the only country where it seems the disconnect between true family culture and morality taught through the family, has disappeared .
/quote]
Sources for your bullshit claim, please.
This is the difference between those who want common sense gun control and those who don't. Those who don't support common sense gun control measures use zero logic in their reasoning because you're all fucking morons.
Sources ? Maybe if you went outside instead of trolling teenagers on a ski website you'd see what I'm talking about . Shit YOU yourself are an example of this : this country spit out a guy who thinks it's rational to constantly spout aggressive nonsense online day in and day out ....
midwesternmaniacSources ? Maybe if you went outside instead of trolling teenagers on a ski website you'd see what I'm talking about . Shit YOU yourself are an example of this : this country spit out a guy who thinks it's rational to constantly spout aggressive nonsense online day in and day out ....
"Derp my source is my eyez!!!! I dun't need any evidence for my absurd claims!"
Thank you for confirming that you're just another fucking idiot.
skierman"Derp my source is my eyez!!!! I dun't need any evidence for my absurd claims!"
Thank you for confirming that you're just another fucking idiot.
People like you are an example of why our society is in trouble . You're obsessed with talking shit and don't even know why. It's pathetic and you know it man . Grow up.
skiermanYou're just another flag fucking, Trump butthole sucking pussy. "DUrrrr I wuld like totz stop any mass shooters! Believe me cuz I never done it befure but I believs in 2nd Amendment so hard I would do it in a seconds!"
You fucking pussies do nothing but cite "what if" and "it coulda been worse" dreams to back up your delusional view of how society should function. Show me one study, any evidence of the bullshit you're spewing. Go ahead and say this baseless crap to a parent who lost a 5 year old in Newtown, a parent who lost a teen in Parkland or anyone who lost someone in the massacre in Vegas about how more guns make us safer and everything would have been fine if your Capt. American ass was there to save everyone.
Go ahead, you pussy. Let's see it. So far all we see is a bunch of talk from another gun-toting bitch with nothing to back it up. I'm sure they'd like totz respect you and your concealed carry permit.
Not a Trump lackey or a gun nut. In favor of more control over firearms production, distribution and sale. Here are some quotes and statistics I found interesting.
From the CDC
"Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008."
Ar-15s are fun to shoot and look cool. Outside of hog hunting I don't know why you would need something with a 30 or the capability to take a 30. Not a good firearm for home defense and a lot of them are quite pricey. I can't think of a time that a good guy civilian with and AR stopped a bad guy with an AR.
Not a huge fan of the "muh rights" argument. The constitution was meant to be a changing document, and if the most powerful military in the world wanted to form a police state there is nothing your average gun owner is going to be able to do to stop it.
Video games do not cause mass shootings. It's disappointing but expected to see politicians blaming it on that rather than actually taking strides towards change. Criminals will always be able to get there hands on guns. By limiting what guns and equipment they can access and also requiring all gun owners to take firearm safety classes and tests we can limit the damage that can be done. Also, increase the fines and penalties for owning a gun illegally or mishandling a firearm. Myself and many others feel okay speeding because there is not much of a penalty. If I could get 10 years for going 15mph over the speed limit I might rethink how much I speed. I think the same could be applied to fire arms. Higher penalties are not gonna stop all or even most of the badies. But it might make someone think twice. Especially with a firearm registry. If the government has to know that I own and drive a car they should know if I have a firearm.
You can always hurt someone in there wallet. If it is expensive and a hassle to own a firearm then a large portion of people are going to be dissuaded from doing it. For legal reasons or otherwise.
LonelyMyself and many others feel okay speeding because there is not much of a penalty. If I could get 10 years for going 15mph over the speed limit I might rethink how much I speed.
Well, actually a speeding ticket will cost you way more than the ticket itself. After a first violation studies have shown that your premiums on average go up like 20%, that violation will stay 3 years on someone's record I think, so we're talking like $500-$1000 total depending on your premiums. Not like jail time, but still ridiculous imho. And if you add other violations then yeah, you could be paying thousands of dollars for speeding. Just a side note, I realize this was not the point of your argument, but I feel a lot of people don't realize that.
Locking your front door only keeps the honest people out. Same with guns and these mass shooters apparently aren't thinking about jail, $ or their future. They're just in a irrational state of mind. Unfortunately I dont think theres any stopping these types of nutcases.
TnskiLocking your front door only keeps the honest people out. Same with guns and these mass shooters apparently aren't thinking about jail, $ or their future. They're just in a irrational state of mind. Unfortunately I dont think theres any stopping these types of nutcases.
Sure, but having a security system, a fence, and porchlights all help. You're never gonna prevent a motivated person from breaking into your house but you might prevent a few of the less motivated people.
So a quick few thoughts on the points some people have made. people talk about other countries gun bans, such as Britain or Australia. and they point out that gun deaths go down. that is true, but irrelevant because many times violent crime as a whole goes up. Imo it doesn't really matter whether you die to a gunshot or a knife stab, you're still dead. you need to look at the big picture. guns owned for self defense can prevent many of these violent crimes.
secondly, the number of gun deaths that many people cite are misleading at best. yes, around 32,000 gun deaths per year are recorded in the us. of these though, around 60% are suicides, and so they aren't really relevant to the discussion. of the about 11,000 gun homicides, around 80% of these are gang shootings. although these are unfortunate, gang members clearly don't care about laws, and aren't going to follow them. these shootings also don't really affect the average citizen of the US (not a gang member). So all told there are around 2000 to 2500 non gang related homicides in the US every year, in a country of more than 300 million people and 300 million guns. not a huge issue, compared to around 38,000 car accident deaths, or 600,000 heart disease (obesity) deaths.
thirdly, mass shootings are terrible, but extremely rare events. I believe that the media is partially responsible, due to the irresponsible reporting that may lead to copy cats. decades ago studies showed that the media reporting on suicides in certain way caused more suicides, or "copy cats" you can look up these studies, I'm not gonna copy paste them here. http://reportingonsuicide.org/recommendations/ . I would be very surprised if the way the media reports on shooters isn't causing the same thing. oh well, CNN doesn't care, shootings are good for their ratings/agenda.
fourth, is the fact that only about 400 people a year are killed by rifles, the vast majority are killed by pistols. banning ARs would not really help anyone. The Texas AM shooter used a regular old bolt action hunting rifle and still killed 18 people and injured many more. banning ARs is an emotional response by people who have never shot a gun before who think "spooky scary black gun"
fifth, is the fact that the 2nd amendment is there for defense against a tyrannical govt, not hunting or sport shooting or whatever. I believe that people could rebel against the government using guns if a tyrannical government was imposed. the problem for the government is that although aircraft carriers and warplanes and nuclear weapons may be great for fighting organized countries militaries, they are all but useless for fighting insurgencies, as we have learned in Vietnam and Afghanistan. The only way for the government to enforce a police state is to have boots on the ground. this said, if every passerby could have a glock in their waistband and every homeowner an AR15, those boots on the ground are gonna have some trouble. an example of the government being put in their place is the BLM bundy ranch dispute a few years ago. the government backed down when thousands of militia members showed up with their guns.
im sure im forgetting some stuff, oh well lol
oh yea there's no correlation between state gun ownership rates and gun homicide rates.
Enzob007I believe that people could rebel against the government using guns if a tyrannical government was imposed. the problem for the government is that although aircraft carriers and warplanes and nuclear weapons may be great for fighting organized countries militaries, they are all but useless for fighting insurgencies, as we have learned in Vietnam and Afghanistan. The only way for the government to enforce a police state is to have boots on the ground.
This is the most delusional thing I've read in awhile, you're really reaching here.
eheathThis is the most delusional thing I've read in awhile, you're really reaching here.
Not sure why you think that if they wanted to do it, more than 100 million gun owners being able to defeat 1.4 million military and 700k police (some of which would defect) is delusional. Regardless of if you think this is delusional, it’s still the point of the 2nd amendment.
**This post was edited on Aug 7th 2019 at 3:13:55pm
Enzob007Not sure why you think that if they wanted to do it, more than 100 million gun owners being able to defeat 1.4 million military and 700k police (some of which would defect) is delusional. Regardless of if you think this is delusional, it’s still the point of the 2nd amendment.
**This post was edited on Aug 7th 2019 at 3:13:55pm
Well to start, we don't exactly have military grade aircraft or a massive weapons arsenal. It really isn't that hard for the military to drop a pretty precise bomb or launch a missile from a plane or drone on top of a rebellion like that, unless you have a missile pod just hanging out in your back yard.
Enzob007Not sure why you think that if they wanted to do it, more than 100 million gun owners being able to defeat 1.4 million military and 700k police (some of which would defect) is delusional. Regardless of if you think this is delusional, it’s still the point of the 2nd amendment.
**This post was edited on Aug 7th 2019 at 3:13:55pm
I can't tell if you're trolling or a complete maniac.
HangryWell to start, we don't exactly have military grade aircraft or a massive weapons arsenal. It really isn't that hard for the military to drop a pretty precise bomb or launch a missile from a plane or drone on top of a rebellion like that, unless you have a missile pod just hanging out in your back yard.
Like I said before, these weapons are useless against an insurgency that blends in with the regular population. Even the most tyrannical leader isn’t going to glass entire cities because there are some insurgents in it. Regardless of whether you think it could be successful or not, it’s why the 2nd amendment exists.
eheathI can't tell if you're trolling or a complete maniac.
Eheath be like I have no argument so I’m going to resort to acting like skierman
skiermanOh and Ohio and Texas are both concealed carry states. Where are these good guys with guns? Buncha fucking pussies.
probably not at the mall, you fucking loser.
can't wait to drink your salty ginger tears when trump gets re-elected
and for someone who acts like such a hardo on a ski forum, you actually really are a soft little liberal snowflake. really not that hard to realize that guns save lives, stop robberies, rapes, etc.
skiermanYou know you have no real defense when you use the excuse of, "durrp I need my gunz to protect me from the most powerful military in human history".
You completely ignored his other reasons for owning an assault rifle
Enzob007Eheath be like I have no argument so I’m going to resort to acting like skierman
I don't need to argue for the most advanced military in the world, if you think random people with guns could overthrow the USA you are absolutely insane brother.
eheathI don't need to argue for the most advanced military in the world, if you think random people with guns could overthrow the USA you are absolutely insane brother.
you'd be surprised. everyone besides combat MOS's in the military are for the most part oblivious to anything shooting/combat related. infantry is about 1% of the military. alot of good ol boys in the infantry who would not follow orders such as disarming their country. just sayinnnn
eheathI don't need to argue for the most advanced military in the world, if you think random people with guns could overthrow the USA you are absolutely insane brother.
Also, regardless of how strong the military is, people should still have the right to own guns to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. Even if people say that there's no chance of winning against them. Didn't people say the same thing about the original American colonists vs. the British army?
If the American government made the argument of "we're restricting your gun privileges and taking away some of your guns bc we'd crush you anyway" that sounds kinda tyrannical to me.
eheathI don't need to argue for the most advanced military in the world, if you think random people with guns could overthrow the USA you are absolutely insane brother.
Tell that to the taliban who have held off the us for 20 years with some shitty 60 year old Russian aks
.frenchyprobably not at the mall, you fucking loser.
can't wait to drink your salty ginger tears when trump gets re-elected
and for someone who acts like such a hardo on a ski forum, you actually really are a soft little liberal snowflake. really not that hard to realize that guns save lives, stop robberies, rapes, etc.
"probably not at the mall" ignores the fact the shooting in Ohio happened in the street so no gun free zone there buddy, how do you explain that?
"Durrrp I wants Trump reelected to see people get upsets cuz I has no reason else to support a borderline illiterate racist that rapes women"
LonelyBy limiting what guns and equipment they can access and also requiring all gun owners to take firearm safety classes and tests we can limit the damage that can be done. Also, increase the fines and penalties for owning a gun illegally or mishandling a firearm. Myself and many others feel okay speeding because there is not much of a penalty. If I could get 10 years for going 15mph over the speed limit I might rethink how much I speed. I think the same could be applied to fire arms. Higher penalties are not gonna stop all or even most of the badies. But it might make someone think twice. Especially with a firearm registry. If the government has to know that I own and drive a car they should know if I have a firearm.
I really dislike the speeding analogy you used there. Putting people in jail for going a few miles over the speed limit is pretty tyrannical, like putting people in jail for smoking weed. Makes me wonder how reasonable gun mishandling punishments would really be.
This. I fucking hate the "mental health" argument. The phrase "mental health issues" generally refers to issues like depression, anxiety, bipolar, borderline, schizophrenia, etc. None of those have an inherent tendency to make a person more dangerous, hateful, or violent. I've known a lot of people with those issues. They are not any more violent or dangerous as a whole compared to a group of mentally healthy people. I think it would be awful and unjust if they didn't have the right to defend themselves with a firearm. It would also further the stigma that these people are crazy and can't function in society, which isn't true.
The El Paso shooter had insatiable anger and disgust with modern progressive society. That doesn't necessarily connote that he had a mental health issue or condition. I hate the idea that "some people are crazy and evil and that can never be fixed" but I really am at a loss when it comes to keeping these people from being violent.
Some people argue that it's Trump's fault for promoting anti-immigrant sentiment and thus motivating this guy to do what he did, but I think it's the opposite. He was disgusted with progressive values in society; the more these progressive values flourished (which they obviously have in recent years), the more upset he probably got, until he couldn't take it anymore and got so angry that he shot up a grocery store.
I think there is a really good argument that gun control laws don't actually work, but I don't know how these mass shooters can be calmed down before they go berserk.
**This post was edited on Aug 7th 2019 at 5:07:17pm
buyfulltiltsI really dislike the speeding analogy you used there. Putting people in jail for going a few miles over the speed limit is pretty tyrannical, like putting people in jail for smoking weed. Makes me wonder how reasonable gun mishandling punishments would really be.
They are already extremely ridiculous. Add a fore grip without knowing all the laws and the ATF can throw you in jail for a decade or more
Lol'd at the dude who thinks Bubba and Jimbo from Louisiana could take down THE US MILITARY with their shotguns, pistols and a few ARs.
Bro - if the government wanted you dead they could shoot a missile from a submarine in Alaska up your butthole and THEN wipe every record of you even existing from history. People with legally purchased guns/concealed haven't even been able to take down a depressed teenager and you think you're gunna take down the goddamn army? Get a life.
GrandThingsLol'd at the dude who thinks Bubba and Jimbo from Louisiana could take down THE US MILITARY with their shotguns, pistols and a few ARs.
Bro - if the government wanted you dead they could shoot a missile from a submarine in Alaska up your butthole and THEN wipe every record of you even existing from history. People with legally purchased guns/concealed haven't even been able to take down a depressed teenager and you think you're gunna take down the goddamn army? Get a life.
See prev post, just bc the military is strong doesn't mean the people should have no chance of rising up, and there are several other reasons that people should be allowed to own guns
buyfulltiltsSee prev post, just bc the military is strong doesn't mean the people should have no chance of rising up, and there are several other reasons that people should be allowed to own guns
I wouldn't expect you to understand the point because well you know, you're a pretty stupid individual. The point is, the general public doesn't need unfettered access to high capacity magazines, high caliber firearms. Using the defense of, "derp its to protectz me from tyrannical gooberments!" is fucking idiotic when you're referencing facing off with the most powerful and advanced military in human history on their own land.
skiermanUsing the defense of, "derp its to protectz me from tyrannical gooberments!" is fucking idiotic when you're referencing facing off with the most powerful and advanced military in human history on their own land.
You're pretty much just repeating your point instead of responding to my argument
buyfulltiltsI really dislike the speeding analogy you used there. Putting people in jail for going a few miles over the speed limit is pretty tyrannical, like putting people in jail for smoking weed. Makes me wonder how reasonable gun mishandling punishments would really be.
On a completely separate note I've found myself going down a deep hole when questioning how a government or enforcement could ban the use of a natural growing substance, it's just wack to think about. Like it's nature, it's our bodies. As a horribly poor example we don't ban cats from catnip right? I understand the reasoning for prohibition of unnatural drugs, but weed can grow in your back yard or in a ditch.
HangryOn a completely separate note I've found myself going down a deep hole when questioning how a government or enforcement could ban the use of a natural growing substance, it's just wack to think about. Like it's nature, it's our bodies. As a horribly poor example we don't ban cats from catnip right? I understand the reasoning for prohibition of unnatural drugs, but weed can grow in your back yard or in a ditch.
Why should the government ban the sale of poisonous fruits and fungi? I mean, they're natural right?
Just being the devil's advocate. I personally think weed should be legal, but saying it's natural isn't a good argument imo.
buyfulltiltsWhy should the government ban the sale of poisonous fruits and fungi? I mean, they're natural right?
Just being the devil's advocate. I personally think weed should be legal, but saying it's natural isn't a good argument imo.
I mean just thinking on the principle that they're banning human beings from being able to consume something naturally grown, like I do understand the rationale, it's just pretty strange to think we ban our own species from consuming something naturally occurring that doesn't affect others directly.
buyfulltiltsI really dislike the speeding analogy you used there. Putting people in jail for going a few miles over the speed limit is pretty tyrannical, like putting people in jail for smoking weed. Makes me wonder how reasonable gun mishandling punishments would really be.
Good for you. You missed the point. The reason why governments have high penalties for crimes is to dissuade people from doing them. Whether the penalty fits or not is an entirely separate argument. I was pointing out that by putting a high penalty on something pushes people away from it.
skierman"probably not at the mall" ignores the fact the shooting in Ohio happened in the street so no gun free zone there buddy, how do you explain that?
"Durrrp I wants Trump reelected to see people get upsets cuz I has no reason else to support a borderline illiterate racist that rapes women"
Because it was in front of a bar? And you can't carry and be drunk????
Dude you are a fuckin anti-gun loser it seems, and you are really ignorant to most people in this thread that are totally proving you wrong. BTW, saying 'durp' in all of your posts isn't funny.
