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Real ski boot talk - beyond "go to a Bootfitter"

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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
Hey, so I don't know about yall, but my local bootfitter wants like a grand. I am not spending more than $300 on boots, and watch - I'll get good ones.

Every boot thread I've read on here is mostly people jumping in to say "you will never understand boots, go to a bootfitter you fucking simpleton, there is no way you could possibly comprehend the shape of your own feet, so just give up and fork over the cash." I know some of yall broke. Can we talk about boots or what?

I agree that it's stupid to just search online for the "best boot" without taking your own feet into consideration, but are we really too stupid to measure and analyze our own shit?

Now - if you got the bread/clout/connect to get bootfitted, don't take this as an insult or anything. But some of us are out here buying $280 skis on the springs sales (still brand new Helix 98s tho dick) with some $75 used attack 13s, which means you can't tell us that it's time to drop $850-$1200 to a bootfitter or kill ourselves.

OK, cue the 10 people who gotta say "buy full tilts" cuz it's still so fucking hilarious. I get it breh. But my point is simply this: shout out to everyone on here who talks about boots from their own experience, to help people who are out here looking to find our own best boot because we already spent bread, and we don't have access a bootfitter-size bag.

Ok, so what's my boot plan, you ask? Well, it's off season and the deals are right, so here's what you do, broke bois listen up: start with companies that sell through REI. For example, I'm considering Dalbello Pantera 120 IDs. REI doesn't have the ID version, but I just dropped $400 and ordered the regular Pantera 120 on their site. I'm gonna try them on, and whether they fit or not, I'm gonna return them to the local REI and get my $400 back. If I love em, I can get em for like $275 shipped through other sites, and that's while already knowing I'm ordering the right size (cuz I tried those REI ones on before I returned em). Don't sleep on Amazon either, if you can find something with free Prime return shipping, try that shit on for free. This especially applies to anyone who doesn't live near a ski area, cuz you aren't just missing out on bootfitters, you're missing out on any store at all where you can try on boots. Find some gems during this time of year, try on different shit in different sizes until you find something you love, and then buy it online on clearance.

And that's why I post this shit. Because we could all be talking about foot sizes and shapes and narrowing it down for each other until, but instead we're all like "Theodore, tell father to throw a rack at the man in the back of the ski lodge who serves us boots".

Love yall.
May 1 2019 8:04PM
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Seekingseasons
Posts: 523 - Karma: 1,252
Sometimes I write threads like these then delete the BS and just ask my question so its not so long. I literally want to help you out but am too stoned to read this.
May 1 2019 11:42PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4780 - Karma: 17,002
I think I agree with the basic sentiment of this thread, bootfitting is not rocket science nor black magic in all but the most extreme cases.

Anyone with time and modest resources can practice bootfitting on themselves. Research is key.

The problem comes in the form of threads on "boot X makes my third toe hurt a lot" where someone else posts "yeah I love boot X but I'm getting a little heel slippage" and because human anatomy is so varied no real information can be gleaned.
May 1 2019 11:57PM
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hippystinx
Posts: 937 - Karma: 171
What is the length and last of your foot in mm? What shell size are you considering? What was your previous shell size internal volume and last in mm? Do you have a large navicular bone? Do you have boney, narrow or wide ankles? What is the volume of your heel cup. Do you have a flat foot, a medium arch, or a high arch? What is the shape of your toe box? How much do you weigh/how tall are you/what flex rating are you looking for? These are all questions you should have a firm grasp of if you are buying a boot off the internet. If not I would suggest walking into a local shop at some point and throw a salesman 10 bucks cash, just to get his opinion on a fit your a boot. Not all shops are equal these days unfortunately and you have to do your research. I would avoid shops that do multi sport sales, as the knowledge to know all that stuff is crazy. Ask them if they have any extra ski boot fit pads you can buy. Pickle pads, Instep pads, and a heel pad are something I put on 70% of boots I fit people in. I have bony feet, even an extra custom foam liner process, I still need padding in areas to take up volume, everyones feet are a little bit different. A comfy well fitting ski boot, shouldn't cut off circulation to your feet. Your feet should stay reasonably warm.
May 2 2019 12:04AM
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BigTexas
Posts: 78 - Karma: 525
The thing that I dont like about this post is that you buy the boots knowing you're going to return them. If anyone else has ever worked for an online store you learn to hate these types of people. I get that there is nothing stopping you from doing this, but still a trash move in my opinion
May 2 2019 12:27PM
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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
**This post was edited on May 2nd 2019 at 2:46:29pm

**This post was edited on May 2nd 2019 at 2:48:11pm
May 2 2019 2:44PM
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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
CrucklesThe thing that I dont like about this post is that you buy the boots knowing you're going to return them. If anyone else has ever worked for an online store you learn to hate these types of people. I get that there is nothing stopping you from doing this, but still a trash move in my opinion


OK, well first I physically went in to REI, but they already got rid of all their ski boot stock for the year, same with all the other shops around here (except for the bootfitter, who has low stock, but I can't afford him anyways). I'll be returning the boots to the store in person, not by mail, and I'll only be trying them on - just the same as I would have if the boots had been in stock in the store I visited. I've dropped a lot of money at REI over the years, often when cheaper prices could be had elsewhere, so I feel fine about pulling this move. If it were some small online retailer who would have to eat the cost of shipping both ways, I'd feel differently. It's not like I'm one of those guys who buys gear at REI, takes it out and uses it outdoors, and then returns it for a full refund.
May 2 2019 2:48PM
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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
SeekingseasonsSometimes I write threads like these then delete the BS and just ask my question so its not so long. I literally want to help you out but am too stoned to read this.


Ha ha I feel you. It was just a rant really, because I've been researching so much and I keep seeing the same posts discouraging people from talking about boots.
May 2 2019 2:49PM
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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
mystery3I think I agree with the basic sentiment of this thread, bootfitting is not rocket science nor black magic in all but the most extreme cases.

Anyone with time and modest resources can practice bootfitting on themselves. Research is key.

The problem comes in the form of threads on "boot X makes my third toe hurt a lot" where someone else posts "yeah I love boot X but I'm getting a little heel slippage" and because human anatomy is so varied no real information can be gleaned.


True. Hard to find the middle ground between "Go to a bootfitter" type posts and "This boot hurts my third toe" type posts.
May 2 2019 2:52PM
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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
hippystinxWhat is the length and last of your foot in mm? What shell size are you considering? What was your previous shell size internal volume and last in mm? Do you have a large navicular bone? Do you have boney, narrow or wide ankles? What is the volume of your heel cup. Do you have a flat foot, a medium arch, or a high arch? What is the shape of your toe box? How much do you weigh/how tall are you/what flex rating are you looking for? These are all questions you should have a firm grasp of if you are buying a boot off the internet. If not I would suggest walking into a local shop at some point and throw a salesman 10 bucks cash, just to get his opinion on a fit your a boot. Not all shops are equal these days unfortunately and you have to do your research. I would avoid shops that do multi sport sales, as the knowledge to know all that stuff is crazy. Ask them if they have any extra ski boot fit pads you can buy. Pickle pads, Instep pads, and a heel pad are something I put on 70% of boots I fit people in. I have bony feet, even an extra custom foam liner process, I still need padding in areas to take up volume, everyones feet are a little bit different. A comfy well fitting ski boot, shouldn't cut off circulation to your feet. Your feet should stay reasonably warm.


Thanks for the reply dude, I'll see if I can snag some of those pads you mentioned if I need to dial in the fit.
May 2 2019 2:54PM
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vibecheck
Posts: 3112 - Karma: 15,185
yall
May 2 2019 3:20PM
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shin-bang
Posts: 4100 - Karma: 6,997
I feel you op.

Ive tried to fit myself and even make some custom footbeds. In terms of boots i think it would be possible to achieve a decent fit if you dont have an odd shaped foot. Thousands of dollars worth of ski boots and orthotics later. I understand that i have a moderately wide foot with a somewhat high instep. But once youve found a shell, you ideally need a footbed. ive been to multiple shops, some knew what they were doing some didnt.

I agree. most people just throw the answer 'go to a boot fitter'. It is a science to some extent, but not unfathomable to the normal person as most people perceive.

I wish there was a thread that could help you diagnose your foot with measurements and charts along with lists of boots and their volumes and lasts. that way i could buy a boot that fits for cheap, and then splurge a bit of $$$ on footbeds.
May 2 2019 4:11PM
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shin-bang
Posts: 4100 - Karma: 6,997
shin-bangI feel you op.

Ive tried to fit myself and even make some custom footbeds. In terms of boots i think it would be possible to achieve a decent fit if you dont have an odd shaped foot. Thousands of dollars worth of ski boots and orthotics later. I understand that i have a moderately wide foot with a somewhat high instep. But once youve found a shell, you ideally need a footbed. ive been to multiple shops, some knew what they were doing some didnt.

I agree. most people just throw the answer 'go to a boot fitter'. It is a science to some extent, but not unfathomable to the normal person as most people perceive.

I wish there was a thread that could help you diagnose your foot with measurements and charts along with lists of boots and their volumes and lasts. that way i could buy a boot that fits for cheap, and then splurge a bit of $$$ on footbeds.


kind of scattered post, but oh well.
May 2 2019 4:12PM
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pastysmasher
Posts: 780 - Karma: 664
You could probably figure if your feet are fairly normal. Defo get custom footbeds
May 2 2019 5:58PM
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powsatch
Posts: 41 - Karma: 625
Don’t ever buy full tilts they are garbage ass boots, all you need is the correct last for your foot and the flex you want. You can always make boots stiffer with parts from old ones and ect.. go to the boot fitter for your footbeds because they actually understand feet (pronation n whatever) and will do it correctly. Do the rest of the adjustments yourself this could take a few days of going to the hill trying different stuff out. I prefer to take up volume than getting a boot that barely fits and having to do punches or grinding out the inside. Basically don’t sell yourself short and get shitty boots they are more important than your skis, a tight proper fit will improve your skiing.
May 2 2019 8:37PM
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Lvlcrank
Posts: 13 - Karma: 38
Custom footbeds are worthy every penny. Make sure you get them ground to actually fit the boot tho. Many US fitters won’t actually grind them, they just plop em down in the boot after they’ve been molded
May 2 2019 8:53PM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,785
Paid a fitter like $40 to look at my feet and compare them to the hundreds of feet he's put in boots, then tell me a couple boots I could fit into and what kind of work would be involved with each. Dunno bout you all but there literally isn't a boot on the market that would fit me out of the box. Paid another like $80 and he punched em to the dimension of my foot (based on my preference for performance/comfort) and added some padding where my foot needed it.
First year in my life I have actually felt like my boots fit my feet and like I can ride as hard as I want without pain.
$120 on top of the cost of boots.

For anyone in Vancouver Tom at Intuition is fitter Jesus.

Sounds like the solution is to find a better fitter rather than to try and cheat the system at REI.
I don't think there is a world in which NS can replace that knowledge without a gallery of dimensioned photos of your feet and a memoir of the issues you've experienced in previous boots. And then you've got to actually be able to do the work on them.

Annoying, I know. Another "talk to a bootfitter" response.
May 3 2019 12:39AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,861
As much as people want boot selection and boot-fitting to be done by themselves at home, it's just not realistic (unless you are a trained boot-fitter with the tools and materials at home, which let's face it is just for weirdos like me).

Brands will never list all of their last dimensions so you can compare all aspects of your foot to it and in order to find what works for you. This would cause SO much confusion in an already confusing setting, and it's only telling a part of the story. Just because you know certain dimensions, it doesn't mean that a boot that matches those dimensions will be a good fit for you. If you knew your exact foot dimensions and the boot's last dimensions, how do you take into consideration the liner? Do you think that if your forefoot is 100mm wide that a 100mm last will be a good fit for you when the liner takes up 10mm of thickness in the forefoot?

There are way too many variables to consider in doing this, which is why boot-fitters exist. Yes, they are not all equally good, but neither are doctors or car mechanics. And I think we'd all agree that a certain level of knowledge is required to even be a basic car mechanic This holds true for boot-fitters. Yes, there is no dark art or secret knowledge to boot-fitting, but there is a certain level of knowledge that is required to do it and do it well. This is not only knowledge about feet & biomechanics, but about how different brands' boots compare to one another and to the other brands, about how to make footbeds, and about how to modify shells, cuffs, liners and the tools required to do it.

With that said, I do think people should always be generally knowledgeable about how to size a boot, in terms of shell fitting. Knowing this would solve almost 75% of fit related issues from the beginning. But after that, it's really hard to gauge how a boot could fit you not knowing how a footbed will change the position of your foot inside the shell or how much certain stretches or grinds would turn a boot that feels like crap in your living room into the perfect fitting boot.

You should know the basics, but not more than that because you will just end up confusing yourself or making an ill-informed decision if you don't have all of the tools and materials at your disposal.
May 3 2019 5:58AM
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tmwtrmash
Posts: 148 - Karma: 1,044
Bought boots, wore them for a week, pain went away. O think if you can stand punching out the shell with your feet over about a week period of slightly over tightening your boots you wont need to get then fitted. I wore socks that were a little thin just to make the fit snug after the break in phase. The only calculations i did was simple mondo pint stuff and measuring my fore-foot last (about 105mm) and the boot was 99mm. Never getting my boots fit by some 75 y/o guy who touches your step moms feet all day.
May 3 2019 10:44AM
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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
KevskiPaid a fitter like $40 to look at my feet and compare them to the hundreds of feet he's put in boots, then tell me a couple boots I could fit into and what kind of work would be involved with each. Dunno bout you all but there literally isn't a boot on the market that would fit me out of the box. Paid another like $80 and he punched em to the dimension of my foot (based on my preference for performance/comfort) and added some padding where my foot needed it.
First year in my life I have actually felt like my boots fit my feet and like I can ride as hard as I want without pain.
$120 on top of the cost of boots.

For anyone in Vancouver Tom at Intuition is fitter Jesus.

Sounds like the solution is to find a better fitter rather than to try and cheat the system at REI.
I don't think there is a world in which NS can replace that knowledge without a gallery of dimensioned photos of your feet and a memoir of the issues you've experienced in previous boots. And then you've got to actually be able to do the work on them.

Annoying, I know. Another "talk to a bootfitter" response.


Dude, well played. Those prices sound WAY more reasonable than what I'm getting quoted. If the boots I ordered through REI don't fit, I may wait until next time I travel somewhere where there's a better bootfitter and go your route. I'd love to get foot beds made too, as many have mentioned, unless of course I wind up in a boot that's comfortable without them.
May 3 2019 4:04PM
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,482
powsatchI prefer to take up volume than getting a boot that barely fits and having to do punches or grinding out the inside.


This is the hardest way to fit a boot. Having done both its way better to expand a shell thats a bit tight than try to fill volume in one thats too loose. The looser boot will continue to pack out and become loose again after a few days.
May 5 2019 2:13PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
jupiterhenryOK, well first I physically went in to REI, but they already got rid of all their ski boot stock for the year, same with all the other shops around here (except for the bootfitter, who has low stock, but I can't afford him anyways). I'll be returning the boots to the store in person, not by mail, and I'll only be trying them on - just the same as I would have if the boots had been in stock in the store I visited. I've dropped a lot of money at REI over the years, often when cheaper prices could be had elsewhere, so I feel fine about pulling this move. If it were some small online retailer who would have to eat the cost of shipping both ways, I'd feel differently. It's not like I'm one of those guys who buys gear at REI, takes it out and uses it outdoors, and then returns it for a full refund.


Dood this is a waste of resources, people’s time etc... dick move
You don’t know your boot size ? You’ve skied before right? First pair?
Just go to specialty store learn about feet have your foot measured have your instep measured have your calf volume measured.... buy appropriate boot

There’s no info to be gained that isnt available already thru study as all of us have slightly different feet anyway
May 5 2019 6:58PM
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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
SavageBiffDood this is a waste of resources, people’s time etc... dick move
You don’t know your boot size ? You’ve skied before right? First pair?
Just go to specialty store learn about feet have your foot measured have your instep measured have your calf volume measured.... buy appropriate boot

There’s no info to be gained that isnt available already thru study as all of us have slightly different feet anyway


Biff, breh. I tried to go in and try them on, but the store had already sent back all their boots for the year. But no, I should "Go to specialty store" and drop a rack rather than inconvenience poor REI with putting a pair in the mail. Are you familiar with REI's business model?

And for real? There is "no info to be gained" by trying the boot on? You gonna stand by that? The whole point of my original post was that I WISHED there was enough info "available already thru study" - but there's not, so I have to try on boots. And I can't afford to spend a rack to do that. This reply is exactly the type of bullshit that made me write the first post.
May 6 2019 12:51PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
No I meant there’s no info to be gained for us by you trying it on , unless we’re twins with the same feet

And I don’t have a good boot fitter anywhere near me , I recommend waiting til your near a mountain , or travel, get a real pro to do it , most fitters will do anything to a boot multiple times for the cost of buying it , a grand for boots shit how’s he in business g luck
May 6 2019 1:57PM
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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
SavageBiffNo I meant there’s no info to be gained for us by you trying it on , unless we’re twins with the same feet

And I don’t have a good boot fitter anywhere near me , I recommend waiting til your near a mountain , or travel, get a real pro to do it , most fitters will do anything to a boot multiple times for the cost of buying it , a grand for boots shit how’s he in business g luck


Cool OK I see what you mean. But I'm hoping there will be at least a little bit of info to be gained for the community, I'm gonna write up a post on how they fit, including some foot measurements. I have wide feet in the front, skinny heel and ankle, and high arches. Every time someone writes a boot review and describes their feet that way, it's like pure gold info for me...but of course, that's all of like 3 posts/reviews that I've ever found. Thus my frustration about the whole "go to a bootfitter" thing. Fools will write 1000 words about new wave and track pants and whether we like poles and shit, but god forbid we ever describe a boot in detail, right?

And yeah, I don't know how the $1K guy's in biz either, except that I live in the Bay Area and this shit is getting stupid expensive everywhere - I just tried to go to this bar across the street and they were selling $10 beers. Not a fancy bar either.
May 6 2019 6:38PM
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SavageBiff
Posts: 3483 - Karma: 14,753
jupiterhenryCool OK I see what you mean. But I'm hoping there will be at least a little bit of info to be gained for the community, I'm gonna write up a post on how they fit, including some foot measurements. I have wide feet in the front, skinny heel and ankle, and high arches. Every time someone writes a boot review and describes their feet that way, it's like pure gold info for me...but of course, that's all of like 3 posts/reviews that I've ever found. Thus my frustration about the whole "go to a bootfitter" thing. Fools will write 1000 words about new wave and track pants and whether we like poles and shit, but god forbid we ever describe a boot in detail, right?

And yeah, I don't know how the $1K guy's in biz either, except that I live in the Bay Area and this shit is getting stupid expensive everywhere - I just tried to go to this bar across the street and they were selling $10 beers. Not a fancy bar either.


I hear ya
Saying something like Rossi makes a boot that generally caters to this frame whereas Lange is more shapes to this frame .... I like it but I don’t know if I believe it would b applicable in the real world, hard to say

We have the same feet lol so I guess I’m shutdown there.... I have 105.75 mm last in my forefoot , medium/thin heel , high instep , real high arch , medium to small calf
I am in search of new boots , I mean I found them , just awaiting to arrive at killington or out west for a real bootfitter , I’m getting Fischer vacuum hybrid 120s , I heard Dalbello was gonna start a vac thing idk it’s summer all I do is read ski shit
Also , I have Rossi track 130s with custom high arch foot beds , punching and grinding done , they r 104mm , were tight at first , now they r nice except the heel area is loose
FYI — no boot is good for us high archers u will always need custom footbed , when the foots compressed and doesn’t have support there , and u ski especially land airs holy fuck the pain I took my boots off and put my feet in the snow and took the boots back holy fuk lol

G luck I’m down to talk gear anytime over new wave jobber jabber btw
May 6 2019 6:50PM
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OregonDead
Posts: 6883 - Karma: 24,505
jupiterhenryCool OK I see what you mean. But I'm hoping there will be at least a little bit of info to be gained for the community, I'm gonna write up a post on how they fit, including some foot measurements. I have wide feet in the front, skinny heel and ankle, and high arches. Every time someone writes a boot review and describes their feet that way, it's like pure gold info for me...but of course, that's all of like 3 posts/reviews that I've ever found. Thus my frustration about the whole "go to a bootfitter" thing. Fools will write 1000 words about new wave and track pants and whether we like poles and shit, but god forbid we ever describe a boot in detail, right?

And yeah, I don't know how the $1K guy's in biz either, except that I live in the Bay Area and this shit is getting stupid expensive everywhere - I just tried to go to this bar across the street and they were selling $10 beers. Not a fancy bar either.


Yeah that guy is probably in some overpriced retail district or just a jerry trap. It is about $100 for full custom footbeds and good boot fitter should do punches for like $20-$30 or so.

$120 to $150 to get foot beds and get your shells punched and liners heat molded is about right. IME a good boot fitter will do a shell fit for free and tell you if the shell is worth working on. So take your current boot in and get a shell fit and the guy should be able to say lets go from here or you should get a different shell with these attributes and tell you the correct size to get and if you need low volume etc. Once you have a good idea on the shell just buy it on sale from someplace that has a good return policy and go back to your boot fitter. They will tell you if you got the right one and then do the work if you did.

I'm not sure how many really good boot fitters there are. The guy I uses has a lot of customers from out of state that fly out to hood to see him. My guess is the best are located at places that have a lot of race camps etc.
May 6 2019 7:00PM
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jupiterhenry
Posts: 140 - Karma: 598
OregonDeadYeah that guy is probably in some overpriced retail district or just a jerry trap. It is about $100 for full custom footbeds and good boot fitter should do punches for like $20-$30 or so.

$120 to $150 to get foot beds and get your shells punched and liners heat molded is about right. IME a good boot fitter will do a shell fit for free and tell you if the shell is worth working on. So take your current boot in and get a shell fit and the guy should be able to say lets go from here or you should get a different shell with these attributes and tell you the correct size to get and if you need low volume etc. Once you have a good idea on the shell just buy it on sale from someplace that has a good return policy and go back to your boot fitter. They will tell you if you got the right one and then do the work if you did.

I'm not sure how many really good boot fitters there are. The guy I uses has a lot of customers from out of state that fly out to hood to see him. My guess is the best are located at places that have a lot of race camps etc.


Good info, thanks. I'll prob drive up to Tahoe and hit Starthaus when they stock up again next fall.......unless I get lucky with the boots I ordered!
May 6 2019 7:16PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7142 - Karma: 17,428
jupiterhenryGood info, thanks. I'll prob drive up to Tahoe and hit Starthaus when they stock up again next fall.......unless I get lucky with the boots I ordered!


Even if you find a boot which "fits" go have them fitted. Even a boot which does not hurt may actually be a really bad fit. Pain and discomfort is one factor but a boot can fit badly and still cause no problems. Always get boots fitted.
May 8 2019 3:14PM
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