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Discriminate in sports against natural advantages?

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Monsieur_Patate
Posts: 1393 - Karma: 4,307
So this woman is dominating her discipline and the IAAF is basically saying her natural testosterone levels are too high and she must lower it down if she wants to qualify to compete.

To clarify, she is not transgender, not taking any particular drugs, she just apparently has a natural advantage over the competition because her testosterone levels are naturally high and the IAAF doesn't like it.

I think this is utter bs, natural advantages are part of any sport, it's like saying Rudy Gobert needs to play on his knees because his ridiculous height gives him a natural advantage to defend the rim.

Thought I'd see what NS thinks.

https://deadspin.com/iaaf-now-officially-allowed-to-discriminate-against-cas-1834444084?utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR2q4s3K8x0G8cCT02p2lgom7vQRYisMSndrjhkccMVEMTcFTCGRwoIG6LI&fbclid=IwAR159NZ5Qu63sgZ2MGF8L0-u2Tr_oNR6bPYwonwv0FHMRAWo5ixJ-r3y73g
May 1 2019 12:40PM
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iFlip
Posts: 4544 - Karma: 19,137
This is not as simple an issue as you make it out to be. She has internal testes, something women are not naturally supposed to have. While she is not trans, she is not a normal woman.

She is in a restricted class (women) but is not on an equal playing field to other women because she has certain male attributes. I have not fully developed my thoughts on this issue but it certainly is not racism (since most or all women in her disciplines who have won Olympic medals or international competitions have been black) and it certainly is not an easy topic.
May 1 2019 12:58PM
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Monsieur_Patate
Posts: 1393 - Karma: 4,307
iFlipThis is not as simple an issue as you make it out to be. She has internal testes, something women are not naturally supposed to have. While she is not trans, she is not a normal woman.

She is in a restricted class (women) but is not on an equal playing field to other women because she has certain male attributes. I have not fully developed my thoughts on this issue but it certainly is not racism (since most or all women in her disciplines who have won Olympic medals or international competitions have been black) and it certainly is not an easy topic.


I don't think it's racist either.

But I disagree with your argument "women are not naturally supposed to have".

The restriction of her class is pretty well defined: being a female. Is she a female? She sure is.
And she hasn't done anything to alter the natural state of her body, so her body is, in fact, in its natural state.
So how do you define what is natural to have vs. not natural, by a threshold of the percentage of the natural population having the same condition? What is that threshold? I just think it's a super slippery slope.

Martin Fourcade can lower his bpm to fucking 25, is this natural? What percentage of the population can do that? Maybe 0.00001%. No wonder the guy has 7 Olympic gold medals, it seems to me this gives him a huge natural advantage over the competition, but he is not "cheating", he is still using the body nature gave him, and if you go down the road of trying to discriminating against natural advantages I don't see where it stops.
May 1 2019 1:17PM
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p3cific
Posts: 576 - Karma: 1,756
its a trap
May 1 2019 1:42PM
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tsingtaofanatic
Posts: 3344 - Karma: 4,586
its a trap
May 1 2019 1:56PM
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T.L.
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 3,008
A perfect example of the PC obsession with equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity. If she's not cheating, let her do her thing.
May 1 2019 1:59PM
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iFlip
Posts: 4544 - Karma: 19,137
Monsieur_PatateMartin Fourcade can lower his bpm to fucking 25, is this natural? What percentage of the population can do that? Maybe 0.00001%. No wonder the guy has 7 Olympic gold medals, it seems to me this gives him a huge natural advantage over the competition, but he is not "cheating", he is still using the body nature gave him, and if you go down the road of trying to discriminating against natural advantages I don't see where it stops.


Martin is in an unrestricted class, male. What makes someone female? Is it simply the lack of a dick? Look into why the governing body made the decision they did regarding this woman. As I said, I have not fully formulated an opinion. However, their reasons are certainly more than just opinion.
May 1 2019 2:00PM
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Monsieur_Patate
Posts: 1393 - Karma: 4,307
iFlipMartin is in an unrestricted class, male. What makes someone female? Is it simply the lack of a dick? Look into why the governing body made the decision they did regarding this woman. As I said, I have not fully formulated an opinion. However, their reasons are certainly more than just opinion.


No doubt it's complicated. The question the IAAF tried to answer is whether or not she had an "unfair advantage" over the competition, not whether or not she meets the restriction criteria of her class. They argued that she does, and rendered that judgment (although it was 2 to1, not a unanimous decision)

To that point, I'm just arguing that even if she does have an advantage due to her natural condition, there are plenty of other examples where other athletes have what could qualify as an "unfair advantage" over the competition, citing Fourcade's heart. Nature is unfair, and my personal opinion is that as long as their body isn't altered, those athletes should be allowed to compete with whatever nature gave them.
May 1 2019 3:28PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9791 - Karma: 72,406
I'm with OP. Kinda wack
May 2 2019 5:02AM
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DirtYStylE
Posts: 3652 - Karma: 8,889
Born a biological male at birth? Compete with other males

Born a biological female at birth? Compete with other females

If there are genetic variations it means you can compete in the special olympics

/thread
May 5 2019 12:44PM
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