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Helping people as best I can, as a shop worker

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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3103 - Karma: 13,866
I work at a shop (ERIK'S Bike Board Ski) and I'd definitely say I have a considerable knowledge of skis and boots, but I still want to give my customers better help. Most customers come in saying that they cruise the local Wisconsin hill groomers and are Type I skiers. Generally in that case I direct them to the piste skis and tell them to just go with the lowest price one...cuz idk shit about how different models of piste skis feel. Should I do some more research on them? I figured they would all be pretty sufficient for those kinds of skiers, and the lower-priced ones would be geared towards beginners.

I've sold a bunch of boots and am basically the store boot salesman (NOT a bootfitter cuz I am just a sales associate and can't do shell work). When it comes to selling boots, I'm very wary of giving them a bigger boot for comfort's sake, as long as there are no pressure points or their toes aren't curled up a ton. Maybe I'm being too hardcore? Blister says in their bootfitting guide that it's snobby to assume that everyone wants a snug downsized fit. But imo if you buy a smaller boot (that doesn't give you pressure points or hurt your feet) and use heat molding to expand the liner so it's comfortable, that's much better than upsizing. My belief is that all levels of skiers want a fit that will give them optimal response. No matter what level of skiing you're at, you're probably going to want to progress and try new and more difficult things. If there is slop in your boot, there is delayed response, and if you're trying to learn new things, how are you going to deal with them if your ski isn't even responding predictably? And snug fitting boots should NOT be at all uncomfortable, they should just feel like a firm handshake. How are you going to perform well if your feet are mangled and jammed?

Also I don't really know much about helmet nuances, I was always under the assumption that every good helmet provides adequate protection and the only differences are things like ventilation, amenities, comfort, aesthetics. Same when it comes to goggle shapes.

For everyone who's worked at a shop, how do you give your customers the best possible experience and be more knowledgeable?

inb4 "sell full tilts"
Feb 20 2019 12:08PM
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supersquid
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 2,547
For helmets, I always try and sell something with MIPS protection. As for boots, try and ask people as many questions as they can. Most people think they are a better skier than they are. By finding out things like how much they actually ski, what they didnt like about their old boots, where they spend their time on the mountain, and what they ski on you can get a better non biased view of what type of skier they are.
Feb 20 2019 12:26PM
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ASSholebomber22
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 70,689
That was wierd. Didn't post like half my shit. Oh well dont wanna type again

**This post was edited on Feb 20th 2019 at 12:32:28pm
Feb 20 2019 12:30PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3103 - Karma: 13,866
supersquidFor helmets, I always try and sell something with MIPS protection. As for boots, try and ask people as many questions as they can. Most people think they are a better skier than they are. By finding out things like how much they actually ski, what they didnt like about their old boots, where they spend their time on the mountain, and what they ski on you can get a better non biased view of what type of skier they are.


I mean I generally just pull out all the boots we have in their size and general width (the vast majority of our boots are low flex entry level boots) and try all of them on to determine which one fits them best. And most of the people who have come to me so far have only tried rental boots.
Feb 20 2019 12:41PM
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supersquid
Posts: 1430 - Karma: 2,547
TheVictatorI mean I generally just pull out all the boots we have in their size and general width (the vast majority of our boots are low flex entry level boots) and try all of them on to determine which one fits them best. And most of the people who have come to me so far have only tried rental boots.


Good rule of thumb is to pick three boots you think will work, anymore than that and its hard to remember what fits good. A lot of it is just looking at their foot. And determining what their limiting factor is. Most of the time it is either instep height or ankle size. After I have had tem try three boots on, I have them pick the best two, then I throw a foot bed in both and whatever one feels best is the winner.

Do you have your customers put two different boots on opposite feet or do you put both left and right on at once?
Feb 20 2019 12:54PM
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JaquinGuzman
Posts: 112 - Karma: 350
Im a boot fitter at a small shop in Colorado and never bring out more than three boots.Also get more familiar with the anatomy of the foot and try every boot on that you carry so you know how it feels and fits.
Feb 21 2019 1:25PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3103 - Karma: 13,866
supersquidGood rule of thumb is to pick three boots you think will work, anymore than that and its hard to remember what fits good. A lot of it is just looking at their foot. And determining what their limiting factor is. Most of the time it is either instep height or ankle size. After I have had tem try three boots on, I have them pick the best two, then I throw a foot bed in both and whatever one feels best is the winner.

Do you have your customers put two different boots on opposite feet or do you put both left and right on at once?

I often have them put on one boot at first just to see if they at all like it and if they do then I'll have them put on another one on the other foot to compare. So yes.
JaquinGuzmanIm a boot fitter at a small shop in Colorado and never bring out more than three boots.Also get more familiar with the anatomy of the foot and try every boot on that you carry so you know how it feels and fits.

Why only three boots? Just to start out with, you mean? I'm going to give them all the options they have so that they can go home with the best fitting boot possible. If you mean having only 3 out at a time just to stay organized, that makes sense...
I tried on some Drop Kicks the other day cuz the shop had em in my size, were super low volume. I'll see what other boots the shop has in my size and try them on when I can. Let's hope I don't find a boot I like better than the ones I just bought LOL
Feb 21 2019 6:09PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7160 - Karma: 17,589
TheVictatorI often have them put on one boot at first just to see if they at all like it and if they do then I'll have them put on another one on the other foot to compare. So yes.

Why only three boots? Just to start out with, you mean? I'm going to give them all the options they have so that they can go home with the best fitting boot possible. If you mean having only 3 out at a time just to stay organized, that makes sense...
I tried on some Drop Kicks the other day cuz the shop had em in my size, were super low volume. I'll see what other boots the shop has in my size and try them on when I can. Let's hope I don't find a boot I like better than the ones I just bought LOL


The reason you would generally pick no more then 3 boots is, it’s unlikly you will have that many which will be worth trying.

When you start a fit first thing should be sit them down and shoes and socks off. Have a good look at the foot. How long and wide is it? How high is the instep? How wide is the heel and ankle? Is the foot Te same width all the way? Even just looking at these 4 basic things should allow you to know which boot is worth trying.

How do you know hat to try, well the only way is to try them yourself. You should know how long and wide your foot is so if you know how a boot fits your foot you will know how a boot will fit a foot compared to yours. Try every boot on and more importantly shell check them.

Shell checking is so so so important. I can fit a boot just from the shell check. Do some research on what to look for in the shell check and that will tell you every thing about how a boot will fit. You should base your boot selection off the shell check not how the bot feels to Te customer. 3 different customers with the same feet could tell you Te same boot feels different to them. Unless people have been fitted a lot of times they often don’t know what a boot should feel like. So base your suggestion off the shell fit.

From there really then you get into the boot fitting, ie adapting boots making footbeds etc but start with the basics. Learn the shapes and what fits different feet. That way you can bring the correct boot out first time hopefully more often.
Feb 21 2019 6:43PM
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Hansel9001
Posts: 197 - Karma: -74
Youre a good honest guy op. Props for keeping it real.
Save up your money so you can start your own store some
Day, because you seem to have what it takes.
Feb 21 2019 6:50PM
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Hansel9001
Posts: 197 - Karma: -74
Also, boots priority number 1 is to be a good match for the customers foot and ankle. If an 80 year old grandmother fits best in spks thats the boot she should buy. If you have 2 boots with good fit and no pressure points, then you can make other calls about whats the best flex/style/hardness etc.
Feb 21 2019 6:54PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3103 - Karma: 13,866
tomPietrowskiThe reason you would generally pick no more then 3 boots is, it’s unlikly you will have that many which will be worth trying.

When you start a fit first thing should be sit them down and shoes and socks off. Have a good look at the foot. How long and wide is it? How high is the instep? How wide is the heel and ankle? Is the foot Te same width all the way? Even just looking at these 4 basic things should allow you to know which boot is worth trying.

How do you know hat to try, well the only way is to try them yourself. You should know how long and wide your foot is so if you know how a boot fits your foot you will know how a boot will fit a foot compared to yours. Try every boot on and more importantly shell check them.

Shell checking is so so so important. I can fit a boot just from the shell check. Do some research on what to look for in the shell check and that will tell you every thing about how a boot will fit. You should base your boot selection off the shell check not how the bot feels to Te customer. 3 different customers with the same feet could tell you Te same boot feels different to them. Unless people have been fitted a lot of times they often don’t know what a boot should feel like. So base your suggestion off the shell fit.

From there really then you get into the boot fitting, ie adapting boots making footbeds etc but start with the basics. Learn the shapes and what fits different feet. That way you can bring the correct boot out first time hopefully more often.



Actually, come to think of it, I have done that to a lesser extent; I often just observe whether or not the foot is wide; in the former case, I go for one of the 100mm last boots we have, and in the latter case, I'll do a 102mm last boot. However, I have not tried them on or researched the other nuances of the shape, so I generally just go with trial and error and tell them not to hate me for sometimes putting them in a boot that straight up doesn't work. (Obviously if that happens I will immediately axe the boot.)

Also, we have a good amount of boots with walk mode, for some fucking reason (Dalbello Panterra, Tecnica Cochise, etc). I'm not going to recommend these to people who are just going to groomer mountains, because they are touring boots, but I'm not exactly sure what touring features/walk mode compromises compared to a normal alpine boot.
It's so weird. We're in the Midwest...why do we have touring boots???

Since I am just working at the shop until the summer (I move down south), it would be irrational for me to invest tons of time, research, and money into bootfitting. Maybe if I decide to go into bootfitting as a career, but other jobs in the industry are more ideal for me. I feel guilty that my shop doesn't have true bootfitting services, but again, most of the customers are very casual skiers.

Thanks for the info.
Feb 21 2019 7:31PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3103 - Karma: 13,866
Hansel9001Youre a good honest guy op. Props for keeping it real.
Save up your money so you can start your own store some
Day, because you seem to have what it takes.


Thank you so much man. Ideally I'd be working at a ski product company as a product engineer rather than a store owner (I'm getting an engineering degree), but who knows, I just want to have a job in the industry I enjoy.
Feb 21 2019 7:35PM
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