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Why are companies doing this?

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Cryptno
Posts: 176 - Karma: -11
It seems like this trend of 110-115 waist width and 25+ m turn radius "freeride" ski is becoming more and more common. Armada, 4rnt, and elan have all gone to this. Most of them topping out their powder skis with these semi fat skis. There a still a lot of powder skis that I would say are skiable on groomers all day but more and more of them are vanishing. Maybe some pros and industry people have the answer. I just don't see the need in a ski that is barely wide enough for powder and lacks a lot of characteristics that make groomers fun.
Jan 13 2019 11:11PM
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Sharko
Posts: 2274 - Karma: 4,101
Cryptno110-115 waist width... is barely wide enough for powder

If you can barely ski powder with 115 waist, the ski isn’t your problem. With rockered tips being the norm everything floats these days.
I’m not quite sure what your gripe is here.
Jan 13 2019 11:24PM
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Cryptno
Posts: 176 - Karma: -11
SharkoIf you can barely ski powder with 115 waist, the ski isn’t your problem. With rockered tips being the norm everything floats these days.
I’m not quite sure what your gripe is here.


The powder part was a bit hyperbole. It just makes the whole ski less useful in general in my experience
Jan 13 2019 11:28PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4804 - Karma: 17,025
25+ m turn radii are fine on groomers especially if you ski fast.
Jan 13 2019 11:30PM
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Cryptno
Posts: 176 - Karma: -11
mystery325+ m turn radii are fine on groomers especially if you ski fast.


Lol not where I ski. With a 25+ m radius I would get 4 turns in per run
Jan 13 2019 11:32PM
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Denseclouds
Posts: 506 - Karma: 2,974
Get some 150cm Line Honey Badgers
Jan 13 2019 11:48PM
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Cryptno
Posts: 176 - Karma: -11
DensecloudsGet some 150cm Line Honey Badgers


Thanks boo
Jan 14 2019 12:18AM
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Session
Posts: 5375 - Karma: 22,080
Because tight radius side cuts on powder skis make them ski like shit in powder. And make no mistake. Those are powder skis. For the mos part the industry has backed off super fat pow skis.
Jan 14 2019 12:25AM
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-SnowSnoli-
Posts: 756 - Karma: 1,703
There are still plenty of +120mm wide skis on the market.
Just people woke up to 130+ being a bit overkill. Even though I loved the hellbent at 132mm in pow it destroys my knees anywhere else.
Jan 14 2019 2:11AM
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Chunderface
Posts: 2514 - Karma: 9,848
Good thread.

I ski some 112mm with 27m radius. I'm 6'4", a lifelong athlete, and ski really fast and aggressive. These are my "playful" skis. I also often ski Bibby's, or Pettitors, even on non-deep days. All these skis have legit RCR profiles. On the 112's I can ski the whole mountain, except they are no fun in tight icy moguls.

When I try to ski narrower skis they feel dangerous to me, unstable, harder to jump, like toys, or "hooky" because of the lesser turn radius. I dunno. I just always end up having more fun on wider skis.
Jan 14 2019 12:34PM
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oxiclean
Posts: 615 - Karma: 687
TubeBroWhen I try to ski narrower skis they feel dangerous to me, unstable, harder to jump, like toys, or "hooky" because of the lesser turn radius. I dunno. I just always end up having more fun on wider skis.


That's stupid as fuck.
Jan 15 2019 6:00PM
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TheWeaz
Posts: 803 - Karma: 1,903
CryptnoLol not where I ski. With a 25+ m radius I would get 4 turns in per run


So what you’re saying is your local hill is 100 meters? Why would you want a 120+ ski to ski there.

In regards to your question its probably most about versatility, narrower skis can be skied in more conditions than mega fat ones. Also everyone who wants a super fat probably owns a pair already and since they get skied 3 days a season they don’t wear out very quickly, which would cause sales to decline, which would lead to companies dropping that ski from the line up in favor of a higher selling product.
Jan 15 2019 7:18PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 43,007
TheWeazSo what you’re saying is your local hill is 100 meters? Why would you want a 120+ ski to ski there.

In regards to your question its probably most about versatility, narrower skis can be skied in more conditions than mega fat ones. Also everyone who wants a super fat probably owns a pair already and since they get skied 3 days a season they don’t wear out very quickly, which would cause sales to decline, which would lead to companies dropping that ski from the line up in favor of a higher selling product.


This.

It's also important to remember that you can make turns that aren't the ski's exact sidecut. In fact, that's what the vast majority of your turns will be.

Your gripe seems super weird to me? With a 115 mm Freeride Powder ski versatility doesn't really mean groomer performance, it's usually more related to how that ski does when the powder gets tracked out and turns into chop or crud. In powder, and in those firmer conditions, a longer sidecut (and 25+ meteres is really not that long) will help with stability, and make the ski more fun in deep snow. I've also found that overall shape, and rocker profile, as well as maybe most importantly, the shape and amount of the ski's taper has a way bigger impact on how a ski wants to turn.


I'd recomend skiing a few skis from this catagory before dismissing all of them.
Jan 15 2019 8:17PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2872 - Karma: 34,164
Wide skis are just like SUVs you can use them anywhere anytime. You take out the race car for certain days.
Jan 15 2019 9:55PM
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Swandog7
Posts: 4955 - Karma: 9,021
Get a Bentchetler, thing is 19m turning radius in 185. They are borderline wilding on groomers after 55mph+. Id honestly like a 21-22m radius on a Chetler. Things are mad fun though in pow and on the way back to the lift. You CANNOT charge on them though for the most part. That is why radius are 25+ typically.
Jan 15 2019 11:27PM
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Woos
Posts: 832 - Karma: 1,566
snowfinderWide skis are just like SUVs you can use them anywhere anytime. You take out the race car for certain days.


In the USA maybe. Go to Tokyo sometime. Hell, I don't remember any locations I could have driven an SUV when in Japan.
Jan 17 2019 1:39PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2872 - Karma: 34,164
teamSESHIn the USA maybe. Go to Tokyo sometime. Hell, I don't remember any locations I could have driven an SUV when in Japan.


4x4 cars that better for the international travel?
Jan 17 2019 6:55PM
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Cryptno
Posts: 176 - Karma: -11
TheWeazSo what you’re saying is your local hill is 100 meters? Why would you want a 120+ ski to ski there.

In regards to your question its probably most about versatility, narrower skis can be skied in more conditions than mega fat ones. Also everyone who wants a super fat probably owns a pair already and since they get skied 3 days a season they don’t wear out very quickly, which would cause sales to decline, which would lead to companies dropping that ski from the line up in favor of a higher selling product.



That's not how number work at all.
Jan 18 2019 12:09AM
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TheWeaz
Posts: 803 - Karma: 1,903
CryptnoThat's not how number work at all.


Ok buddy take it easy, the point being made was if a 25 meter radius ski can only make 4 turns down your local hill, you probably don’t need a 130mm waisted powder ski to ski there.
Jan 18 2019 12:33AM
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Cryptno
Posts: 176 - Karma: -11
TheWeazOk buddy take it easy, the point being made was if a 25 meter radius ski can only make 4 turns down your local hill, you probably don’t need a 130mm waisted powder ski to ski there.



Amen. But its a whole bunch of fun. Being in Ohio, the hill goes to shit after they groom pretty quick, probably 90 percent of the people sled down the hill standing up, sliding all the good snow off. Anyways when it gets loose and bumpy, that's where the Fatty's shine.
Jan 18 2019 12:41AM
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