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Why are the Ticket prices in America actually skyrocketing?

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Trifes
Posts: 654 - Karma: 5,508
I every time i look up prices on the websites as european , brooooo, its almost 1K for 7 days , like if you have a family. You get broke and sell your kidney for 7 days.

Can you explain me the circumstances so i as european can understand this whatever made up prices.
Or is this all the result of this "Vail taking over crap" ?

Mahalo
Confused Euro Gaper

EDIT: the reference famlily was in general , im a 24 young chap that just sometimes goes to the US for skiing , last time was 14' in breck/key/copper for a month , if i remember right i owned an epic pass for that season , was like 500$ for an 18yr old in the fall sale.

i made that post since i checked PC for a week , and that was like 800$ , so from what i can gather buying an season pass is always the best idea.

Flights are always 1k varieting with 200$ up/down. Thanks for all the input.

**This thread was edited on Jan 6th 2019 at 6:17:28am
Jan 4 2019 7:31AM
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Rparr
Posts: 5602 - Karma: 46,291
Capitalism

'Murica

Freedom


Nah it fucking sucks. Vail was charging 209$ for a day pass over the holiday. 7 springs charges 93$ a day if I recall during peak season. That's more than what I paid per day to ski at fucking brighton 2 years ago. It is outrageous.
Jan 4 2019 7:48AM
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dawshess
Posts: 11 - Karma: 20
no big snow falls and many mountains have to make snow.
Jan 4 2019 7:54AM
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skiguy04
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 1,115
Skiing isn’t expensive enough
Jan 4 2019 9:52AM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9791 - Karma: 72,407
There's really no excuse. They're making bank while paying their workers shit wages. $200 for a day pass is a travesty. $15 for a cheeseburger; God I'd love to see those margins.....prob almost as good as firework margins. I'll never pay that much for a day pass.

Sure Vail is leading the effort of exploiting capitalism for all that sucks about it, but other mountains are to blame as well....in addition to the people who pay for those day tickets. On the other hand, you can't blame people too much for buying the tickets because they probably just choose mountains based on amenities and proximity to airports.

Rule #1: never buy at the window. It's usually much much higher. I learned this the hard way once at Stowe where tickets were $40 more.

It kills me to pay full price for tickets so I always do a ton of research to pick out the best value places and if they're pricey, definitely buy ahead of time starting with Liftopia where you can find upwards of 50-75% off if you buy early enough. Ski resorts in Salt Lake can have sick discounts on liftopia. The EPIC and more preferable IKON pass definitely makes travel more affordable for people with home mountains on that list or who plan to make more than a few trips.

It's sad tho when the cheapest places are in the $60's and $70's. I will applaud places who are at least not price gouging the shit out of us yet. For example, even though their day prices went up $10 this year, Jay peak sells weekday and weekend passes online for $65 and $75 respectively. Grand Targhee deals can be found on Liftopia. Wolf Creek has $72 adult tickets, and certain days have local days where tickets for all adults (even if not a CO resident) are $50.

Just be smart and think twice before booking that flight and week trip to Breckenridge for a family of 5. Definitely check out multiple airports before choosing a flight and don't be afraid to drive. SLC and Denver are the cheapest airports.

Rant over.
Jan 4 2019 11:18AM
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SuspiciousFish
Posts: 2781 - Karma: 16,812
runforlove2018 pretty much nailed it. All major resorts that are destinations know they can jack up prices and get away with it. The trick is to avoid the holidays and see if you can get an online bundle deal for 4 days etc for less. Look for more local independent resorts as well. It sounds weird but sometimes its cheaper to buy a 'late season' season pass if you are going to ski for a week in the spring so check those options as well.
Jan 4 2019 11:27AM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4814 - Karma: -707
Buy an epic or ikon and shut up. The deal is amazing on that shit and pays itself off in one trip a Vail ticket is 200.

Flights have never been cheaper I'm getting round trips for 250 and the good flights I want not 2 connection bullshit.

Hotels are more expensive than they were 5 years ago which doesn't make sense with AirBNB being so huge nowadays.
Jan 4 2019 11:30AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,554
Posted this on Reddit a week ago.

I'd like to know what % of skiers visit more than a single resort in a season for an extended period of days.

It's pretty evident to me that these conglomerates are pushing people towards purchasing their bundled passes.

We now have the Epic, Ikon, and Mountain Collective passes which give skiers access to more than 1 mountain for a relatively "cheap" price.

If you're a family of 5, you're looking at anywhere from $2,450 to $5,000 on one of these bundled tickets. It takes ~10 days of skiing (using day passes) to cover the most expensive option for a family.

Assuming a family takes minimum 2 ski trips a year, it seems that these would be the cheaper option

It looks like Europe has similar options (with more resorts available) but the costs are somewhat similar.

Here's a comparison on adult tickets




Pass
Cost
# Destinations
Max. Days
Blackout Days?
Other Benefits




Ikon
$1000
34
Unlimited at 14 Resorts
No
25% of Day Tickets


Ikon Base
$700
34
Unlimited at 12 Resorts
Yes-10 Days
N/A


Epic
$930
65
Unlimited at 10 Resorts
No
Price raises after preseason rates


Epic Local
$690
27
Unlimited at 15 Resorts
Yes-13 Days



Mountain Collective
$450
16
2 Days at Each
No
50% off additional days, resort benefits and deals on amenities


Snow Card Tirol
~$913
90+
Unlimited?
Unclear
Entire Tyrol region, skiing almost all year round thanks to Glaciers.


Super Ski Card
~$830/$903
23
Discounted Prices on Day Tickets
No
n/a


Ski Amade
~$655/700
28
Unlimited?
Unclear
N/A



More EU options can be seen here

https://www.downdays.eu/articles/multi-resort-ski-passes-europe-guide/

Some of the more expensive options eclipse those in the US substantially.
Jan 4 2019 11:34AM
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beckums
Posts: 342 - Karma: 631
trifonitchevI every time i look up prices on the websites as european , brooooo, its almost 1K for 7 days , like if you have a family. You get broke and sell your kidney for 7 days.

Can you explain me the circumstances so i as european can understand this whatever made up prices.
Or is this all the result of this "Vail taking over crap" ?

Mahalo
Confused Euro Gaper


Hey man I’m an American and I’m as confused as you. Killington is 124 bucks or something for an adult ticket for a day. The mountain next to my house only has about 20 trails and a ticket is 60 bucks. Makes no sense.

**This post was edited on Jan 4th 2019 at 6:02:34pm
Jan 4 2019 11:40AM
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first_rodeo
Posts: 2385 - Karma: 7,781
These corporations are starting to hedge for global warming.
Natural snow skiing may not be a thing in 100 years...
Jan 4 2019 12:33PM
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PsychicMigration
Posts: 2099 - Karma: 10,537
Because the big resorts are money grubbing.

**This post was edited on Jan 4th 2019 at 2:37:08pm
Jan 4 2019 1:52PM
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SkiBum.
Posts: 3600 - Karma: 3,909
Thanks Vail. Thanks Trump.
Jan 4 2019 2:10PM
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Knewnews
Posts: 2093 - Karma: 477
109 if i bought a pass to bear today, not sure i would be into that without the ikon, at least this way i can afford to make a mammoth trip once or twice hopefully.
Jan 4 2019 2:36PM
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TRVP_ANGEL
Posts: 12521 - Karma: 116,362
Demand > Supply.


NEXT!
Jan 4 2019 2:39PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1628 - Karma: 10,933
Ultimately, high Day ticket prices reduce the cost of season passes. The IKON really was an extraordinary value this season, it cost roughly the same as my old Cali4nia Pass but Is obviously much bigger.

The long term problem for the industry is the climbing barrier to entry into snow sports. I'd be curious to see Alterra resort stats but I'd bet that first time visits are bottoming out. It's hard to convince a beginner to drop $2000+ for lodging, tickets, rentals, lessons, and resort grub. I have roommates from LA that drive up to Mammoth every weekend and when they bring their beginner friends, they've been sledding and ice skating but not skiing.

Long term, we're looking at less snow and fewer new skiers. I try to hope for the best but it's an uncertain time to be a skier let alone someone who depends on this industry for my food and shelter.
Jan 4 2019 2:40PM
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SPK_
Posts: 202 - Karma: 1,050
RparrNah it fucking sucks. Vail was charging 209$ for a day pass over the holiday. 7 springs charges 93$ a day if I recall during peak season. That's more than what I paid per day to ski at fucking brighton 2 years ago. It is outrageous.


209$ for a day seriously what the fuck???! In europe 300$ can get you a 6-days pass to the biggest ski resort in the world, all season long...
Jan 4 2019 4:30PM
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eljefe
Posts: 915 - Karma: 468
Here's a slightly different perspective.

In North America, the average skier visits per skier is 6 per season.

The vast destination demographic that skis at multiple resorts is largely unnafected by the day ticket pricing and will continue to book their trips and days regardless.

As a massively seasonal & weather dependent business, a huge challenge for ski resorts is to raise operating capital to get the resort up and running.

By positioning Day ticket prices so much higher than they have been in the past, and then proportionally staggering season pass opportunities with early season and multi resort discounts that essentially cause a 'break even' situation for the skier who skis 6 or more days, the greater resort business can use this as a behavioral lever to increase season pass purchasing which is in essence an interest free operating capital raise.

Also recognize that we are at the end of a massive 10 year economic expansion and consumer prices in everything from lift tickets to houses, to used cars are reflecting the 40 or so % inflation that occurred in the last decade albeit non linearly.

If you recall, in 07 which was the top of the last big expansion, Aspen & Vail resorts tipped the $100 threshold in Day ticket prices which at the time was met with equal distaste..

/endRant
Jan 4 2019 4:44PM
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corona
Posts: 12804 - Karma: 32,823
My season's pass (nights + weekdays) cost significantly less than a single day at Vail. I will have far more excitement and entertainment in a whole season on a 600ft vert hill in the east than I could in 1 day at Vail.
Jan 4 2019 4:49PM
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beckums
Posts: 342 - Karma: 631
I suppose it could be because so far this winter has not been in favor of the ski resorts... At least on the east coast.
Jan 4 2019 6:03PM
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Casey
Posts: 7875 - Karma: 24,683
I mean, ticket prices go up and yet lift lines are as long as theyve ever been, the back country is packed with people, idk what to tell you.
Jan 4 2019 8:21PM
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corona
Posts: 12804 - Karma: 32,823
bike.life.beckI suppose it could be because so far this winter has not been in favor of the ski resorts... At least on the east coast.


Really? My hill opened in November. Earliest start I can remember.
Jan 4 2019 9:18PM
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beckums
Posts: 342 - Karma: 631
VinnieFReally? My hill opened in November. Earliest start I can remember.


Believe mine did around the same time. But they haven’t been able to open more than a handful of trails and by now they would be 100% open
Jan 5 2019 9:14PM
1 0
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Trifes
Posts: 654 - Karma: 5,508
.MASSHOLE.Posted this on Reddit a week ago.

I'd like to know what % of skiers visit more than a single resort in a season for an extended period of days.

It's pretty evident to me that these conglomerates are pushing people towards purchasing their bundled passes.

We now have the Epic, Ikon, and Mountain Collective passes which give skiers access to more than 1 mountain for a relatively "cheap" price.

If you're a family of 5, you're looking at anywhere from $2,450 to $5,000 on one of these bundled tickets. It takes ~10 days of skiing (using day passes) to cover the most expensive option for a family.

Assuming a family takes minimum 2 ski trips a year, it seems that these would be the cheaper option

It looks like Europe has similar options (with more resorts available) but the costs are somewhat similar.

Here's a comparison on adult tickets




Pass
Cost
# Destinations
Max. Days
Blackout Days?
Other Benefits




Ikon
$1000
34
Unlimited at 14 Resorts
No
25% of Day Tickets


Ikon Base
$700
34
Unlimited at 12 Resorts
Yes-10 Days
N/A


Epic
$930
65
Unlimited at 10 Resorts
No
Price raises after preseason rates


Epic Local
$690
27
Unlimited at 15 Resorts
Yes-13 Days



Mountain Collective
$450
16
2 Days at Each
No
50% off additional days, resort benefits and deals on amenities


Snow Card Tirol
~$913
90+
Unlimited?
Unclear
Entire Tyrol region, skiing almost all year round thanks to Glaciers.


Super Ski Card
~$830/$903
23
Discounted Prices on Day Tickets
No
n/a


Ski Amade
~$655/700
28
Unlimited?
Unclear
N/A



More EU options can be seen here

https://www.downdays.eu/articles/multi-resort-ski-passes-europe-guide/

Some of the more expensive options eclipse those in the US substantially.


most of the eu cards are limited from 1st october to first may week , do own the Tirol Snow card myself, its really good.
Jan 6 2019 6:18AM
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Trifes
Posts: 654 - Karma: 5,508
.MASSHOLE.Posted this on Reddit a week ago.

I'd like to know what % of skiers visit more than a single resort in a season for an extended period of days.

It's pretty evident to me that these conglomerates are pushing people towards purchasing their bundled passes.

We now have the Epic, Ikon, and Mountain Collective passes which give skiers access to more than 1 mountain for a relatively "cheap" price.

If you're a family of 5, you're looking at anywhere from $2,450 to $5,000 on one of these bundled tickets. It takes ~10 days of skiing (using day passes) to cover the most expensive option for a family.

Assuming a family takes minimum 2 ski trips a year, it seems that these would be the cheaper option

It looks like Europe has similar options (with more resorts available) but the costs are somewhat similar.

Here's a comparison on adult tickets




Pass
Cost
# Destinations
Max. Days
Blackout Days?
Other Benefits




Ikon
$1000
34
Unlimited at 14 Resorts
No
25% of Day Tickets


Ikon Base
$700
34
Unlimited at 12 Resorts
Yes-10 Days
N/A


Epic
$930
65
Unlimited at 10 Resorts
No
Price raises after preseason rates


Epic Local
$690
27
Unlimited at 15 Resorts
Yes-13 Days



Mountain Collective
$450
16
2 Days at Each
No
50% off additional days, resort benefits and deals on amenities


Snow Card Tirol
~$913
90+
Unlimited?
Unclear
Entire Tyrol region, skiing almost all year round thanks to Glaciers.


Super Ski Card
~$830/$903
23
Discounted Prices on Day Tickets
No
n/a


Ski Amade
~$655/700
28
Unlimited?
Unclear
N/A



More EU options can be seen here

https://www.downdays.eu/articles/multi-resort-ski-passes-europe-guide/

Some of the more expensive options eclipse those in the US substantially.


most of the eu cards are limited from 1st october to first may week , do own the Tirol Snow card myself, its really good.
Jan 6 2019 6:19AM
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pow_pow~
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 1,804
.MASSHOLE.If you're a family of 5, you're looking at anywhere from $2,450 to $5,000 on one of these bundled tickets. It takes ~10 days of skiing (using day passes) to cover the most expensive option for a family.


your maths is a little off mate, if ski Vail/Breck/BC its like 3 days to pay off the Local and 5 to pay off the full pass. Every other decent resort is pushing 150 now as well.

That gives even more incentive for families to travel to Vail owned resorts, they can get more skiing in for cheaper.

Why would they ski for four days at mammoth when they can get an Epic Local pass and ski 10+ days for the same price? Granted Vail accommodation is more expensive, but if you plan early enough there are extremely reasonable spots in South Lake Tahoe or Frisco/Silverthrone.
Jan 6 2019 6:34AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,554
pow_pow~your maths is a little off mate, if ski Vail/Breck/BC its like 3 days to pay off the Local and 5 to pay off the full pass. Every other decent resort is pushing 150 now as well.

That gives even more incentive for families to travel to Vail owned resorts, they can get more skiing in for cheaper.

Why would they ski for four days at mammoth when they can get an Epic Local pass and ski 10+ days for the same price? Granted Vail accommodation is more expensive, but if you plan early enough there are extremely reasonable spots in South Lake Tahoe or Frisco/Silverthrone.


Aye, it's 5 days not 10 for most of the bigger ones. Brain fart there by me. Nice catch.

Just reinforces the point even more.
Jan 6 2019 7:30AM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,511
Because they figured why not make money on the ticket too.
Actually a ski ticket isn’t a great money maker must resorts (used to) cash in on food, retail, and instruction, and tubing and shit like that.
Jan 6 2019 8:22AM
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skiguy04
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 1,115
roddy116Because they figured why not make money on the ticket too.
Actually a ski ticket isn’t a great money maker must resorts (used to) cash in on food, retail, and instruction, and tubing and shit like that.


Forgot rentals
Jan 6 2019 4:12PM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
Because that's what it costs to run a ski resort. If you have 3 kids and can't afford to take them skiing too fuckin' bad.
Jan 6 2019 8:07PM
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ChadThundercock
Posts: 3071 - Karma: 830
I quit skiing because its such a scam
Jan 6 2019 8:11PM
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roddy116
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 7,511
skiguy04Forgot rentals


Oh well fuuuuck me then
Jan 6 2019 9:12PM
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corona
Posts: 12804 - Karma: 32,823
StaticBecause that's what it costs to run a ski resort. If you have 3 kids and can't afford to take them skiing too fuckin' bad.


"Net income attributable to Vail Resorts, Inc. was $210.6 million for fiscal 2017, an increase of 40.6% compared to fiscal 2016"

>Says increase is cost of running a ski resort
>Net income increases by 40% in a year

Ignorance or stupidity, can't tell.
Jan 7 2019 11:10AM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7495 - Karma: 11,554
Net Income increased so substantially in FY17 because they purchased Whistler Blackcomb among other resorts and finally had a full FY FWIW.

Take out the Whistler Revenue and the results would likely be quite different.

Doesn't mean they wouldn't make a pisspot full of money without it, but the YoY growth isn't a fair comparison.

**This post was edited on Jan 7th 2019 at 11:37:02am
Jan 7 2019 11:36AM
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BenWhit
Posts: 4654 - Karma: 3,257
VinnieFIgnorance or stupidity, can't tell.


it's funny you write that, because if you look at their 10K, Vail pretty clearly calls out that the effects of closing M&A transactions (Whistler, Stowe, etc.) materially affect YoY comps. in fiscal 2017, they had a full year of Whistler contribution that they did not have in 2016. they had several periods of Stowe contribution they didn't have in the previous year, either. the growth figure you're quoting is not organic growth.

ignorance or stupidity, can't tell.
Jan 7 2019 1:21PM
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weastcoat
Posts: 6435 - Karma: 74,258
Rparr7 springs charges 93$ a day if I recall during peak season.


One name: Bob Nutting.
Jan 7 2019 1:55PM
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corona
Posts: 12804 - Karma: 32,823
BenWhitit's funny you write that, because if you look at their 10K, Vail pretty clearly calls out that the effects of closing M&A transactions (Whistler, Stowe, etc.) materially affect YoY comps. in fiscal 2017, they had a full year of Whistler contribution that they did not have in 2016. they had several periods of Stowe contribution they didn't have in the previous year, either. the growth figure you're quoting is not organic growth.

ignorance or stupidity, can't tell.


Doesn't read the part where they exclude Whistler and still show increases as well as hundreds of millions in revenue. Doesn't want to accept companies like Vail are greedy as fuck and are increasing lift prices not because that's how much it costs to operate but because them and their shareholders love $$.

The easy proof of this is discrepancies of ski ticket prices across similar resorts paying similar operating fees.
Jan 7 2019 2:38PM
1 2
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BenWhit
Posts: 4654 - Karma: 3,257
VinnieFDoesn't read the part where they exclude Whistler and still show increases as well as hundreds of millions in revenue. Doesn't want to accept companies like Vail are greedy as fuck and are increasing lift prices not because that's how much it costs to operate but because them and their shareholders love $$.

The easy proof of this is discrepancies of ski ticket prices across similar resorts paying similar operating fees.


no, i read that part... you quoted all-in (including M&A) net income $/%. this is whataboutism and moving the goal post.

nowhere have i disputed that corporations are not greedy and frankly cannot speak to what drives lift ticket prices. with that said, their operating leverage % has been virtually unchanged since 2016, lending credence to the idea that lift ticket prices are driven by cost of operations.
Jan 7 2019 2:53PM
1 1
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9791 - Karma: 72,407
weastcoastOne name: Bob Nutting.

The funny thing is I would actually make a trip or two to 7 springs if it were priced more reasonably. No chance in hell I'd ever pay their day prices for PA lol.

I'm sure there's plenty of other people who have the same mindset as me too. If they dropped their prices, you get more skier visits as well as more people to buy your shitty overpriced cafeteria food and that would more than make up the difference in operating costs.
Jan 7 2019 4:14PM
3 0
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TimersMix
Posts: 54 - Karma: 100
NZ club fields. $34 USD for an adult day pass at temple basin. No crowds, but also no snowmaking or park or even grooming just mad cliffs and narly terrain and an hour walk uphill to the field from the highway.
Jan 7 2019 7:53PM
2 0
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Hansel9001
Posts: 197 - Karma: -74
Skiing has always been a rich mans sport.
If you really want lower prices then you have to bitchslap the us government officials who dont allow developers to build new resorts. Once big government gets the fuck out of the way you will have new resorts pop up in great locations and resorts like vail and breck and
Aspen will have to lower ticket prices in order to compete. We need more free market and more competition between resorts in order to reduce ticket prices.
Jan 7 2019 8:05PM
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xxACIDTRIPxx
Posts: 5980 - Karma: 8,175
TimersMixNZ club fields. $34 USD for an adult day pass at temple basin. No crowds, but also no snowmaking or park or even grooming just mad cliffs and narly terrain and an hour walk uphill to the field from the highway.


$300 season pass ftw
Jan 7 2019 8:23PM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9791 - Karma: 72,407
Hansel9001Skiing has always been a rich mans sport.
If you really want lower prices then you have to bitchslap the us government officials who dont allow developers to build new resorts. Once big government gets the fuck out of the way you will have new resorts pop up in great locations and resorts like vail and breck and
Aspen will have to lower ticket prices in order to compete. We need more free market and more competition between resorts in order to reduce ticket prices.


I agree the government is a little to restrictive in some aspects but they are protecting our national parks and natural resources.
Jan 7 2019 10:25PM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
weastcoastBob Nutting.


I am too
Jan 7 2019 10:45PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5983 - Karma: 3,600
TimersMixNZ club fields. $34 USD for an adult day pass at temple basin. No crowds, but also no snowmaking or park or even grooming just mad cliffs and narly terrain and an hour walk uphill to the field from the highway.


The back country is free in canada
Jan 8 2019 12:20AM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5983 - Karma: 3,600
TimersMixNZ club fields. $34 USD for an adult day pass at temple basin. No crowds, but also no snowmaking or park or even grooming just mad cliffs and narly terrain and an hour walk uphill to the field from the highway.


The back country is free in canada
Jan 8 2019 12:20AM
1 0
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snomaster
Posts: 3346 - Karma: 5,771
TimersMixNZ club fields. $34 USD for an adult day pass at temple basin. No crowds, but also no snowmaking or park or even grooming just mad cliffs and narly terrain and an hour walk uphill to the field from the highway.

wat?
they charge you ski back country? even vail pass is only like $7 to park (prolly why I've yet to go there).
Jan 8 2019 2:41AM
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TimersMix
Posts: 54 - Karma: 100
hemlockjibber8The back country is free in canada


But once you get to the field there are tow ropes so your not skinning all day just an hour walk as the native bush is to precious to build a road through
Jan 8 2019 3:27AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,439
runforlove2018I agree the government is a little to restrictive in some aspects but they are protecting our national parks and natural resources.


Or they used to, at least.
Jan 8 2019 3:31AM
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suup
Posts: 1485 - Karma: 4,367
first_rodeoThese corporations are starting to hedge for global warming.
Natural snow skiing may not be a thing in 100 years...


*10 years
Jan 8 2019 4:23AM
1 0
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