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S-lab Shift Dangerous Pre-release Warning

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tomjensen
Posts: 5 - Karma: 35
I recently bought the Salomon Shift bindings and they release dangerously easily. I watched the tech set them up after mounting, had a second tech check them after a few easy releases from the toe piece and I've read the manual and they are set up to spec. I am skiing them at a DIN setting of 12 and still popping out like crazy. Im 5'10" and 160 lbs and usually release safely with a DIN setting of 10. I have the bindings on 184 Chetler 120s and ski in a Lange freetour XT 130. I skied 5 BC days before taking them to the second tech and then took them to the resort and popped out 5 times from the toe in 2 runs. I've seen on other threads that this is happening to others so I'm posting looking for a solution and also to warn other skiers of the potential danger of skiing these bindings in comitting terrain. I've contacted Salomon so if they have a solution I will post it. There is obviously the possibility I have a faulty binding.

EDIT: I habe a faulty binding and this in not a desgn flaw

**This thread was edited on Jan 4th 2019 at 9:47:28pm
Jan 2 2019 10:51PM
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Session
Posts: 5394 - Karma: 22,380
You should engage in this conversation here :

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/316198-The-Official-Salomon-S-Lab-SHIFT-MNC-Thread-AMA/page52

You may get more traction.
Jan 2 2019 11:18PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4909 - Karma: 17,503
I haven't had a chance to use mine yet but the tech commented on how consistently they released on the machine, on both pairs I had mounted.

Do yours test OK on the bench?
Jan 2 2019 11:20PM
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hootsquad
Posts: 272 - Karma: 1,350
not sure if this applies but I've heard that people on the Salomon team don't use them on skis that wide because the shifts aren't great with power transfer
Jan 3 2019 2:52PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4909 - Karma: 17,503
hootsquadnot sure if this applies but I've heard that people on the Salomon team don't use them on skis that wide because the shifts aren't great with power transfer


Heard from where?
Jan 3 2019 3:26PM
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Session
Posts: 5394 - Karma: 22,380
I hate to keep directing people to the TGR thread. But Cody Townsend is very active in it. I have also cross posted this thread over at TGR and maybe he will hop over here.
Jan 3 2019 3:30PM
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hootsquad
Posts: 272 - Karma: 1,350
mystery3Heard from where?


guy at my local mountain who is basically flow (not sure if that the right term in skiing) for Salomon. To be fair, might not be the most reliable source but thats just what he told me when I was asking him about the shifts
Jan 3 2019 4:38PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4909 - Karma: 17,503
SessionI hate to keep directing people to the TGR thread. But Cody Townsend is very active in it. I have also cross posted this thread over at TGR and maybe he will hop over here.


Those 50 page tgr gear failure threads are really tough to get through, so much whining and know-it-all attitude, and very little useful information in between. See also marker kingpin toe failure thread
Jan 3 2019 4:46PM
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Session
Posts: 5394 - Karma: 22,380
mystery3Those 50 page tgr gear failure threads are really tough to get through, so much whining and know-it-all attitude, and very little useful information in between. See also marker kingpin toe failure thread

And input/feedback from an actual Salomon athlete involved in the development of the product in question.
Jan 3 2019 5:08PM
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 633
Replying to this just so I'm subscribed
Jan 3 2019 7:55PM
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tomjensen
Posts: 5 - Karma: 35
Just to update, the spec in Salomons 18/19 manual for AFD has been revised from a .5 mm to .25 mm gap between bootsole and binding. The mounting tech had the original .5 mm and the second tech set it closer to that .25 mm though it looks like he eyeballed it. Im also reading that people have issues of these bindings not holding their AFD position, which I believe might be the case with mine. Salomon has been great about helping with the issue and Im going to have the bindings re tested tomorrow. Just testing the lateral release by hand it seems fine to me. I'm no expert but it seems like a design flaw if a .25mm change in AFD can cause this severe of a pre release issue. Not able to post to the tgr forum, not sure why.
Jan 3 2019 9:34PM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,790
tomjensenJust to update, the spec in Salomons 18/19 manual for AFD has been revised from a .5 mm to .25 mm gap between bootsole and binding. The mounting tech had the original .5 mm and the second tech set it closer to that .25 mm though it looks like he eyeballed it. Im also reading that people have issues of these bindings not holding their AFD position, which I believe might be the case with mine. Salomon has been great about helping with the issue and Im going to have the bindings re tested tomorrow. Just testing the lateral release by hand it seems fine to me. I'm no expert but it seems like a design flaw if a .25mm change in AFD can cause this severe of a pre release issue. Not able to post to the tgr forum, not sure why.


My afd dropped to an easy 2mm in one morning. Didn’t prerelease the rest of the day including a drop I landed a little front-heavy on. I don’t think the afd is likely responsible if yours only dropped a bit.
Jan 3 2019 9:48PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5990 - Karma: 3,619
hootsquadnot sure if this applies but I've heard that people on the Salomon team don't use them on skis that wide because the shifts aren't great with power transfer


Very incorrect. Chris Rubens has talked about how they are so stiff laterally (power transfer), same as sth2, that it takes a moment to get used to them if you have only been on tech bindings that all have floppy heels
Jan 3 2019 10:58PM
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hootsquad
Posts: 272 - Karma: 1,350
hemlockjibber8Very incorrect. Chris Rubens has talked about how they are so stiff laterally (power transfer), same as sth2, that it takes a moment to get used to them if you have only been on tech bindings that all have floppy heels


I'm by no means an expert on these or any touring bindings, was just trying to convey some potential criticisms with them that had come up in conversation
Jan 3 2019 11:15PM
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 633
tomjensenI recently bought the Salomon Shift bindings and they release dangerously easily. I watched the tech set them up after mounting, had a second tech check them after a few easy releases from the toe piece and I've read the manual and they are set up to spec. I am skiing them at a DIN setting of 12 and still popping out like crazy. Im 5'10" and 160 lbs and usually release safely with a DIN setting of 10. I have the bindings on 184 Chetler 120s and ski in a Lange freetour XT 130. I skied 5 BC days before taking them to the second tech and then took them to the resort and popped out 5 times from the toe in 2 runs. I've seen on other threads that this is happening to others so I'm posting looking for a solution and also to warn other skiers of the potential danger of skiing these bindings in comitting terrain. I've contacted Salomon so if they have a solution I will post it. There is obviously the possibility I have a faulty binding.


Tom I just saw on TGR that you're in Canada and in a location where you can't get a DIN check on the bindings. You can post here or PM me your location and I'll hunt down a shop for you to get the binding tested. I don't want to pollute the thread further but you shouldn't have to second-guess yourself like this with new gear.
Jan 4 2019 12:08AM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5990 - Karma: 3,619
hootsquadI'm by no means an expert on these or any touring bindings, was just trying to convey some potential criticisms with them that had come up in conversation


I wasn't trying to be mean or anything. Just saying it was completely false information
Jan 4 2019 1:10AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,439
hootsquadnot sure if this applies but I've heard that people on the Salomon team don't use them on skis that wide because the shifts aren't great with power transfer


Chris Benchetler uses them on his own skis and it doesn't seem to bother him too much.
Jan 4 2019 4:20AM
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tomjensen
Posts: 5 - Karma: 35
Hey so I had these bindings tested on a Montana machine and got a message of "the messurement value is below tolerance". In Canada it is not an obligation for shops to test release values unless they have the testing equipment so many shops will opt not to own the equipment. When I created this thread I was expecting to hear of many more people with the same problem as I believed the shift had a design flaw but I realize now I just have a faulty binding. Still a little apprehensive of the toe piece deisgn in that it uses an aluminum spring and it has such little contact on the toe ledge of a boot compared to an alpine binding but hey doesnt seem like a common issue.
Jan 4 2019 9:42PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,121
i'm having prerelease issues too. Almost lost my brand new ski. 4/5 of my friends are having issues staying in the heel. Hoping for a slightly heavier model with proper heel travel
Jan 6 2019 11:39AM
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 633
I'm going to repeat what I said in the reviews i wrote. Clear your toes of snow. This binding is really sensitive to forward pressure.

Not putting down Tom or other posters who've had problems. Just highlighting what I found with the Shift
Jan 6 2019 12:55PM
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Ripsnortin
Posts: 4 - Karma: 16
I'm surprised about the comment on reduced toe height tolerance. I've been bothered with the "looseness" of the toe and the wiggle that appears on snow even at the spec 0.5 mm gap (with Dalbello Lupo 130C DIN plates). I tried tightening it up to reduce the wiggle and anything less than 0.5 mm seems to prerelease or at least "crunch-click" on compression indicating a potential release but remaining in the binding. In the end I left it at 0.5 and it doesn't pre-release (and I notice Look Pivot has equal or more "wiggle" in the toe).
Feb 22 2019 11:15PM
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