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How are the Alps so famous when they don't seem to get snow?

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CentAlto
Posts: 19 - Karma: 2
I have been looking at alps resorts for a while now and whenever I look at snowfall reports they are measly, on par with east coast resorts or worse. Are the readings accurate or maybe all taken at base? If they are somewhat accurate then how is it that the alps are considered the best ski destination in the world? I it mainly the culture/infrastructure?
Dec 5 2018 1:51AM
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shinbangclan
Posts: 1177 - Karma: 7,546
there's ski culture and ski infastructure but not a lot of skiing
I wouldn't consider the alps the best ski destination in the world at all, just the most attractive tourism option for jerries in the EU
Dec 5 2018 2:41AM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1678 - Karma: 10,905
We get more than enough snow,it’s just that if you access snow report websites from the US we change all the reports so you guys don’t come here and discover our secrets
Dec 5 2018 2:48AM
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DesertStix
Posts: 2540 - Karma: 14,980
It may just be a seasonal/annual thing depending on where you’re looking online at the moment. There’s a reason Tyrol region, Zermatt, Chamonix, Andorra, etc. are sought after destinations for some of the best pros in the sport.
Dec 5 2018 3:18AM
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exile_ch
Posts: 715 - Karma: 609
+ wayyyy better Après-Ski
Dec 5 2018 3:40AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
It doesn't dump as much and as regularly as in the PNW (Last year was great for powder skiing though), that's true, but we get way better infrastructures at a much cheaper price. Also you can ski as fast as you want, go off piste, jump, and do all the fun shit you do on skis all over the mountain without fearing to get your pass pulled.
Dec 5 2018 4:05AM
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olic
Posts: 294 - Karma: 925
We have intermittent bad years of snow for sure but on average snow depths are pretty decent, they may be famed more for their heritage or size though, I mean look at the Three Valleys resorts, there's 600km+ (370miles) of runs, that's pretty monster.
Dec 5 2018 9:17AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
370 miles of runs for 62 euros ($70) for a day pass, with top of the line lifts, let's not forget that. And that's on the expensive side for France.

My home resort, the Portes du Soleil, has over 400 miles of runs for 53 euros/day ($60).
Dec 5 2018 3:25PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9267 - Karma: 60,727
does anyone have an informed explanation for why the ticket prices are so much more reasonable over there??
Dec 5 2018 4:19PM
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willysworld
Posts: 2116 - Karma: 5,485
Lol... not really... you've obviously never been to the Alps..
Dec 5 2018 4:22PM
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CalumSKI
Posts: 4140 - Karma: 23,323
2 reasons:
1) They are tall bois
2) C H E E S E
Dec 5 2018 4:23PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
SofaKingSickdoes anyone have an informed explanation for why the ticket prices are so much more reasonable over there??


I'm not sure, but I'm guessing the fact that those big resorts usually don't have that much competition nearby play in the higher price in the US (in my area there are maybe around 25 or 30 ski resorts less than an hour drive away).
People don't sue resorts in Europe (or very rarely), so they don't need to take that into consideration.
We don't use artificial snow as much (lower resorts only open in mid-December), so costs of operating are lower.
We have much more paid vacation time in Europe.

Just my 2 cents.
Dec 5 2018 4:50PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9267 - Karma: 60,727
BrawnTrendsI'm not sure, but I'm guessing the fact that those big resorts usually don't have that much competition nearby play in the higher price in the US (in my area there are maybe around 25 or 30 ski resorts less than an hour drive away).
People don't sue resorts in Europe (or very rarely), so they don't need to take that into consideration.
We don't use artificial snow as much (lower resorts only open in mid-December), so costs of operating are lower.
We have much more paid vacation time in Europe.

Just my 2 cents.


those sound like good educated guesses to me!
Dec 5 2018 5:02PM
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Julius_Steezer
Posts: 776 - Karma: 4,536
BrawnTrendsI'm not sure, but I'm guessing the fact that those big resorts usually don't have that much competition nearby play in the higher price in the US (in my area there are maybe around 25 or 30 ski resorts less than an hour drive away).
People don't sue resorts in Europe (or very rarely), so they don't need to take that into consideration.
We don't use artificial snow as much (lower resorts only open in mid-December), so costs of operating are lower.
We have much more paid vacation time in Europe.

Just my 2 cents.


I’d suspect demand is also limited by there not being many big cities nearby. Certainly in France and switzerland, don’t think there’s any cities other than Geneva maybe which are a reasonable (< 2 hour drive away) distance from resort that are comparable in size to slc, denver, Vancouver etc
Dec 5 2018 5:13PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
Julius_SteezerI’d suspect demand is also limited by there not being many big cities nearby. Certainly in France and switzerland, don’t think there’s any cities other than Geneva maybe which are a reasonable (< 2 hour drive away) distance from resort that are comparable in size to slc, denver, Vancouver etc


Well there's Geneva, Lyon, Grenoble, Zurich, Innsbruck, Bern, etc. None are the size of Denver, though.
But don't forget that European countries aren't that big, so people from Paris, Milan, or even London (Geneva is only 1.5hrs away by plane) can totally go ski for a weekend.

I think the main factor is mostly the number of resorts in close proximity to each other. So if one resort was jacking up prices, people would just be like "nah, fuck it, I'll just go somewhere else". Especially the French.
Think about it, in one area the size of greater Los Angeles you have Tignes, Val d'Isère, Val Thorens, les Arcs, la Plagne, Courchevel, Meribel, les Ménuires, les Deux Alpes, l'Alpe d'Huez, la Grave.. And those are just the big, famous ones in the area.
Dec 5 2018 5:33PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,097
Snow simply sticks around due to the high latitude high elevation combo. When zermatt gets 100 inches
A year that snow just builds year after year into a glacier covering the top half of the mountain because it hardly melts in the summer. Sometimes the alps get so much snow they have to declare a state of emergency.
Either way summer glacier skiing is even more fun than winter powder skiing in the rockies.

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2018 at 12:02:24am
Dec 5 2018 11:58PM
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CentAlto
Posts: 19 - Karma: 2
DolanReloadedSnow simply sticks around due to the high latitude high elevation combo. When zermatt gets 100 inches
A year that snow just builds year after year into a glacier covering the top half of the mountain because it hardly melts in the summer.
**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2018 at 12:02:24am


this was one thing i suspected.
Dec 6 2018 2:38PM
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OregonDead
Posts: 6883 - Karma: 24,505
I heard a rumor that there is are glaciers near Innsbruck that are like Mt. Hood but bigger and you can ski there all year even in the fall. Sounds almost too good to be true but I'm saving up $ to go check it out in case it's for real.
Dec 6 2018 2:46PM
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skistupid
Posts: 303 - Karma: 1,197
It has the birthplace of mountaineering and steep skiing. 
Dec 6 2018 2:49PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
OregonDeadI heard a rumor that there is are glaciers near Innsbruck that are like Mt. Hood but bigger and you can ski there all year even in the fall. Sounds almost too good to be true but I'm saving up $ to go check it out in case it's for real.


Zermatt, in Switzerland (where the Glacier Days edits are filmed)
Dec 6 2018 3:11PM
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exile_ch
Posts: 715 - Karma: 609
BrawnTrendsZermatt, in Switzerland (where the Glacier Days edits are filmed)

World greatest ski resort imo.
Dec 6 2018 3:28PM
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skiitsbetter
Posts: 133 - Karma: 309
BrawnTrendsI'm not sure, but I'm guessing the fact that those big resorts usually don't have that much competition nearby play in the higher price in the US (in my area there are maybe around 25 or 30 ski resorts less than an hour drive away).
People don't sue resorts in Europe (or very rarely), so they don't need to take that into consideration.
We don't use artificial snow as much (lower resorts only open in mid-December), so costs of operating are lower.
We have much more paid vacation time in Europe.

Just my 2 cents.


I think a big thing why lift tickets in Europe are cheaper is that off piste skiing isn't controlled or patrolled. Hazards are not marked, no avalanche control unless the pistes or infrastructure is threatened, and often the groomer doesn't leave a very smooth transition at the edge of the cattrack. You are on your own when you venture off the groomed track, a type of policy that doesn't really fly in litigious North America. But you can ski the gnarliest of gnar, and nobody is going to stop you.

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2018 at 3:46:18pm
Dec 6 2018 3:44PM
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smartyiak
Posts: 14 - Karma: 33
exile_chWorld greatest ski resort imo.


Chamonix disagrees with you.
Dec 6 2018 3:47PM
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exile_ch
Posts: 715 - Karma: 609
smartyiakChamonix disagrees with you.

Come on, Cham is an ugly french town with worse air pollution than Paris. Hardly a contender. :)
Dec 6 2018 3:59PM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1678 - Karma: 10,905
smartyiakChamonix disagrees with you.


sshhh!
Dec 6 2018 4:09PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
skiitsbetterI think a big thing why lift tickets in Europe are cheaper is that off piste skiing isn't controlled or patrolled. Hazards are not marked, no avalanche control unless the pistes or infrastructure is threatened, and often the groomer doesn't leave a very smooth transition at the edge of the cattrack. You are on your own when you venture off the groomed track, a type of policy that doesn't really fly in litigious North America. But you can ski the gnarliest of gnar, and nobody is going to stop you.

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2018 at 3:46:18pm


Well I mean off piste is off piste. If it was marked and controlled it wouldn't be off piste anymore.
We do have some marked off piste areas though. We call them "Freeride Zones". Avalanche controlled, lift accessible, areas where everyone can enjoy powder and dropping small cliffs without the risk of real off piste skiing. Pretty much every major resorts have at least one or two.

Like this one in my home resort:
Dec 6 2018 4:10PM
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smartyiak
Posts: 14 - Karma: 33
exile_chCome on, Cham is an ugly french town with worse air pollution than Paris. Hardly a contender. :)


Verbier and Arlberg also disagree with him!

**This post was edited on Dec 6th 2018 at 4:17:39pm
Dec 6 2018 4:13PM
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firecrotch
Posts: 1471 - Karma: 5,507
BrawnTrendsLike this one in my home resort:


looks so sick for bluebird days but terrifying if it gets socked in
Dec 6 2018 4:23PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
firecrotchlooks so sick for bluebird days but terrifying if it gets socked in



Sure is... But we also have some fun tree areas, so that's where we go when visibility is shit.
Dec 6 2018 4:30PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
The Alps are a really confusing place to ski if you grew up in the US. They don't get the consistent dumps you are used to, so some places like Zermatt look like a horrible place to ski if you scope it online. There are some super expensive places to ski like Zermatt, but then you can go to Chamonix and pay like $45 to shred Grand Montet and you can park next to the lift for free. If it snows too much at a place like that, you could literally just die on some very very easily accessible terrain or ski off a huge cliff in low light. Sometimes a storm will close a resort for the whole day or more, fairly rare in the US outside of closing high avy danger areas or a lift for wind. Any time you leave the piste in Europe, you are essentially on your own.

You can also just slap skins on and go anywhere you want. Good and bad with this as avalanche dangers are definitely a concern many people in Europe seem to solve by buying an airbag (you'll see 65 year old women wearing airbags on piste and not know if they just ski'd down a 4,000m peak or just have money and think it's cool).

If you aspire to backcountry ski, Europe is amazing as very cool terrain can be skinned/climbed/ski'd on a day trip from your apartment in some towns. The apres ski is awesome and the experience isn't as cookie cutter as our big resorts. There are huts all over the place so you can skin for days and then make your way back to your car after 6 nights without missing a shower. I like skiing in North America more for frequent snowfall, ease of mind when skiing with friends off piste after a storm and not worrying if they all have a beacon/shovel/probe. The way US resorts are set up (aka where the lifts take you) is typically pretty great. I've gone skiing at some European resorts that have lifts going all over the place and none of them seem to get you to the top. You need to take 2 or 3. Or you can ride the Midi and get a ridiculous amount of vertical in one go. Different experiences for sure, both places have their wins. I'd split time between both if I could do anything.
Dec 7 2018 1:09AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
Dustin.There are some super expensive places to ski like Zermatt


Expensive by European standards, yes, but the Zermatt International day pass (which gives you access to both Swiss and Italian sides of the mountain. Around 230 miles of slopes) is $87. Which is the price of the day pass at Big Bear Lake with the online discount....
Dec 7 2018 2:44AM
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CentAlto
Posts: 19 - Karma: 2
cost of tickets has never really been an object to me since I get my passes by working at the resorts/companies that offer that perk in the winter. But I guess it's nice to know in Europe things are affordable
Dec 7 2018 4:24AM
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WoFIowz
Posts: 9788 - Karma: 72,404
Idk if this was mentioned, but some of those places have mad vertical compared to North America
Dec 7 2018 8:31AM
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DesertStix
Posts: 2540 - Karma: 14,980
BrawnTrendsExpensive by European standards, yes, but the Zermatt International day pass (which gives you access to both Swiss and Italian sides of the mountain. Around 230 miles of slopes) is $87. Which is the price of the day pass at Big Bear Lake with the online discount....


Friend went to Zermatt this summer (not to ski) and said everything in the alps was expensive. He’s a wealthy American kid so for him to say that was a little shocking. So maybe the skiing itself is cheap but the lodging, etc. will probably get you unless you stay in a hostel. He also said the gondola rides were excruciatingly long. Not sure if this is accurate or him exaggerating cause it is a massive mountain range lol
Dec 7 2018 9:54AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
DesertStixFriend went to Zermatt this summer (not to ski) and said everything in the alps was expensive. He’s a wealthy American kid so for him to say that was a little shocking. So maybe the skiing itself is cheap but the lodging, etc. will probably get you unless you stay in a hostel. He also said the gondola rides were excruciatingly long. Not sure if this is accurate or him exaggerating cause it is a massive mountain range lol


The gondola has to climb something like 5000 vertical feet, so that's definitely a long one... And Switzerland can be pretty expensive!
Dec 7 2018 10:14AM
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exile_ch
Posts: 715 - Karma: 609
DesertStixFriend went to Zermatt this summer (not to ski) and said everything in the alps was expensive. He’s a wealthy American kid so for him to say that was a little shocking. So maybe the skiing itself is cheap but the lodging, etc. will probably get you unless you stay in a hostel. He also said the gondola rides were excruciatingly long. Not sure if this is accurate or him exaggerating cause it is a massive mountain range lol

To give you an idea, the Matterhorn Express gondola has 5 stops and go from 1'600m to 3'000m in altitude. From there you can choose another brand new one that can take you to 3'800m. It's maybe long but the vertical drop is pretty insane. (With usually no queuing at all).

Zermatt is expensive as a whole tho, but the infrastructure is top notch.

Here's the new baby opening this season.

https://www.google.com/search?q=3s+zermatt&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjGyuXznY7fAhVIiiwKHfHcBrMQsAR6BAgEEAE&biw=1366&bih=632
Dec 7 2018 12:25PM
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smartyiak
Posts: 14 - Karma: 33
exile_chZermatt is expensive as a whole tho, but the infrastructure is top notch.


Zermatt (and Swissland) is expensive...but you could just ski the backside into Cervinia...Italy's cheaper. Actually, I spent most of my ski days on the Italy side b/c that's where the sun was...Swiss side was cloudy and and crunchy. Don't know if it's always that way, but when I was there, that's how it was.

**This post was edited on Dec 7th 2018 at 1:20:11pm
Dec 7 2018 12:35PM
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everlast
Posts: 1130 - Karma: 1,270
Coming from the PNW I don’t get why Vail is so famous or popular other than its name value.

The mountain is flat as a pancake, gets barely any pow, and has like zero steep runs. IMO it’s boring
Dec 7 2018 12:46PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,097
OregonDeadI heard a rumor that there is are glaciers near Innsbruck that are like Mt. Hood but bigger and you can ski there all year even in the fall. Sounds almost too good to be true but I'm saving up $ to go check it out in case it's for real.

Ive skied at les arc in france in december and zermatt in august. The snow is alot softer than you would think. Both places are pretty magical. The alps vertical rise is
Unreal compared to rocky mountain resorts. In zermatt in august when i got on the first gondola it was
75 degrees and when i got off the last to click in it was below freezing. I skied down to the lift area where it was a nice 60 or so degrees. The park was really nice.
Dec 7 2018 12:54PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
DolanReloadedIve skied at les arc in france in december


Les Arcs when there's powder is one of my all time favorite resorts. Great tree skiing there. Hope you had fun!
Dec 7 2018 1:14PM
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,097
BrawnTrendsLes Arcs when there's powder is one of my all time favorite resorts. Great tree skiing there. Hope you had fun!

Yeah it was awesome. My dad had a biz trip there so i got to skip school in early december. In the back of the hotel bar there
Was a door that lead to a mini night club in the hotel. A ton of hot girls were in there killing it on the dance floor to the techno music under the disco lights.
Otherworldly stuff.
Dec 7 2018 2:05PM
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willysworld
Posts: 2116 - Karma: 5,485
BrawnTrendsLes Arcs when there's powder is one of my all time favorite resorts. Great tree skiing there. Hope you had fun!


Les Arcs on a pow day is next level!!
Dec 7 2018 4:06PM
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losh
Posts: 1126 - Karma: 4,694
exile_chTo give you an idea, the Matterhorn Express gondola has 5 stops and go from 1'600m to 3'000m in altitude. From there you can choose another brand new one that can take you to 3'800m. It's maybe long but the vertical drop is pretty insane. (With usually no queuing at all).

Zermatt is expensive as a whole tho, but the infrastructure is top notch.

Here's the new baby opening this season.

https://www.google.com/search?q=3s+zermatt&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjGyuXznY7fAhVIiiwKHfHcBrMQsAR6BAgEEAE&biw=1366&bih=632


Straight out of a James bond movie. Thats like the Tesla of trams
Dec 7 2018 6:17PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
BrawnTrendsExpensive by European standards, yes, but the Zermatt International day pass (which gives you access to both Swiss and Italian sides of the mountain. Around 230 miles of slopes) is $87. Which is the price of the day pass at Big Bear Lake with the online discount....


Switzerland is much much more expensive than Austria or France in general. Just getting food and lodging kind of kills you in the high season at most places.
Dec 9 2018 1:36PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
BrawnTrendsExpensive by European standards, yes, but the Zermatt International day pass (which gives you access to both Swiss and Italian sides of the mountain. Around 230 miles of slopes) is $87. Which is the price of the day pass at Big Bear Lake with the online discount....


Ya I know, but you can't just go sleep in a tent in Zermatt. Just getting into town is going to cost you money, much less staying there.
Dec 9 2018 1:37PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
Dustin.Ya I know, but you can't just go sleep in a tent in Zermatt. Just getting into town is going to cost you money, much less staying there.


Oh yea, absolutely. Especially if you're not on a Swiss salary.
Dec 9 2018 2:01PM
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