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Should I keep my marker squires?

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Schneidy_5
Posts: 24 - Karma: 24
are squires a good pair of bindings for park skiing? im getting new skis and im deciding whether I should get new bindings with them or not

**This thread was edited on Nov 18th 2018 at 4:39:27pm
Nov 18 2018 4:30PM
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corona
Posts: 12794 - Karma: 32,719
Many people successfully use squires in the park. But if you're an aggressive skier or who pushes their gear maybe think of getting something a little more beefy.
Nov 18 2018 8:03PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
Squires are not a good park binding.

Good park bindings (in order of goodness):

Pivot 18
Pivot 12/14
Attack 13/16
STH2 13/16
Griffon/Jester
SPX 12

You get what you pay for
Nov 19 2018 1:05PM
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ObjectMocked
Posts: 100 - Karma: 230
If you ski hard and tend to land in less than sweet places, do not use markers. The horizontal toe piece will break if you land hard or backseat. I personally broke my griffons overshooting an air first day of the season last year. Pivots are the way yo.
Nov 19 2018 7:56PM
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tahntip
Posts: 26 - Karma: 30
I have squires and honestly I don’t like skiing them. They are pretty weak because they are made of all plastic so going for a more solid binding would definitely be the way to go.
Nov 19 2018 8:20PM
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hootsquad
Posts: 272 - Karma: 1,350
chickenSquires are not a good park binding.

Good park bindings (in order of goodness):

Pivot 18
Pivot 12/14
Attack 13/16
STH2 13/16
Griffon/Jester
SPX 12

You get what you pay for


pivots are some of the best bindings out there (I ride them myself) but I just wanna say that pivot 18s would not be better than pivot 12s for someone who rides with a din of like 8 or 9 say. You don't wanna max out the binding (i.e. riding a pivot 12 at 12) but theres no need to go overboard and go straight to an 18 if you don't need it
Nov 20 2018 12:18AM
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tilhess
Posts: 12 - Karma: 149
I say go with Griffons they’re bombproof ( at least for me) and i haven’t had any problems with them. i had squires last season and i noticed a difference in being able to depend on my binding.
Nov 20 2018 8:13AM
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Session
Posts: 5372 - Karma: 22,045
chickenSquires are not a good park binding.

Good park bindings (in order of goodness):

Pivot 18
Pivot 12/14
Attack 13/16
STH2 13/16
Griffon/Jester
SPX 12

You get what you pay for


How do you even qualify this list?
Nov 20 2018 12:16PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
SessionHow do you even qualify this list?


haha based on my own opinion of course.
Nov 21 2018 2:08PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
hootsquadpivots are some of the best bindings out there (I ride them myself) but I just wanna say that pivot 18s would not be better than pivot 12s for someone who rides with a din of like 8 or 9 say. You don't wanna max out the binding (i.e. riding a pivot 12 at 12) but there's no need to go overboard and go straight to an 18 if you don't need it


you get a pivot 18 for the toe and the durability. Not the DIN. Only reason you shouldn't get the 18 over the 14 (aside from weight/price) is if your din is below 8. Riding a pivot 14 maxed out is fine. So is riding a pivot 18 at minimum.
Nov 21 2018 2:09PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4225 - Karma: 10,615
chickenyou get a pivot 18 for the toe and the durability. Not the DIN. Only reason you shouldn't get the 18 over the 14 (aside from weight/price) is if your din is below 8. Riding a pivot 14 maxed out is fine. So is riding a pivot 18 at minimum.


If you don't need the 18 din, yet you're blowing up 12 / 14 toe pieces, something isn't set up properly. A very small selection of skiers actually need the Pivot 18.

Also, maxing out the din in either direction isn't something I'd recommend either. If you ski at a 12, get the 14. If you ski at a 14, get the 18, etc...don't buy the 14 and crank the dins all the way to the top. Same thing with going maxing out on the low end of the din range.

There's tons of reasons for buying the 12 / 14 over the 18. Buy the binding that is suited for you, not the one that you want to show off in the lift line.

And you get the Pivot 18 for the din, not the toe or the durability.
Nov 21 2018 6:59PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
hot.pocketIf you don't need the 18 din, yet you're blowing up 12 / 14 toe pieces, something isn't set up properly. A very small selection of skiers actually need the Pivot 18.

Also, maxing out the din in either direction isn't something I'd recommend either. If you ski at a 12, get the 14. If you ski at a 14, get the 18, etc...don't buy the 14 and crank the dins all the way to the top. Same thing with going maxing out on the low end of the din range.

There's tons of reasons for buying the 12 / 14 over the 18. Buy the binding that is suited for you, not the one that you want to show off in the lift line.

And you get the Pivot 18 for the din, not the toe or the durability.


Why don't you recommend riding minimum setting of a binding?
Nov 21 2018 9:40PM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
chickenWhy don't you recommend riding minimum setting of a binding?


From what I can remember of my physics degree, its about the yield characteristics of the binding springs. As long as springs are not stretched or compressed beyond their elastic limits, they behave in line with Hooke's Law which is a direct relation between the compression (how tight you crank the DIN) and the force for release. The idea would be that if you max or min out the din you are working near the elastic limits and as such the release force could not be exactly consistent with the DIN rated force for release. The fact that the binding is DIN rated to the max/min values should mean that they perform to the rated force for the whole range (at least on factory testing).
Nov 22 2018 5:35AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
The referenced post has been removed.


you can unscrew the toe screw on a pivot 18 WAY lower than 8 before it will come out. There is not way it will unscrew on its own with all the force of the spring.
Nov 22 2018 10:46AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
razors-chazThe fact that the binding is DIN rated to the max/min values should mean that they perform to the rated force for the whole range (at least on factory testing).


exactly. Which is why you can ride it at 8 (minimum). The engineers chose a spring that will work for settings between 8 and 18. It will work equally well for all of those settings.
Nov 22 2018 10:51AM
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razors-chaz
Posts: 2255 - Karma: 1,250
chickenexactly. Which is why you can ride it at 8 (minimum). The engineers chose a spring that will work for settings between 8 and 18. It will work equally well for all of those settings.

This completely ignores my point after which, yes it should be possible to use a binding safely at the minimum rated DIN but, because of what happens as the spring wears it's generally not recommended to ride on the min/max for a long time and esp not on a pre-owned binding.
Nov 22 2018 10:55AM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
razors-chazThis completely ignores my point after which, yes it should be possible to use a binding safely at the minimum rated DIN but, because of what happens as the spring wears it's generally not recommended to ride on the min/max for a long time and esp not on a pre-owned binding.


The springs will last far beyond the life of a binding assuming they aren't corroded or something. Spring fatigue and spring creep are real things, but pretty much irrelevant when talking about bindings.
Nov 22 2018 11:14AM
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TheWeaz
Posts: 803 - Karma: 1,903
Generally the main reason to not ride at the lower limits of a binding from a shop perspective is because sometimes a binding will not test out to release at the lowest setting, usually due to a tight tolerance, or messed up boot soles. But sometimes a binding set on say 8 will release at the value of a 9, so riding at 8 on the p18 put you at risk of not actually being able go turn the spring down enough to truly release at 8.


That said I ride my p18s at 8 or 9, But I test my bindings every time I mount them. And the only reason i got the 18s was because they don’t make the 15s anymore and you need that toe design for a cast set up.
Nov 22 2018 1:26PM
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Session
Posts: 5372 - Karma: 22,045
There is a lot of skier bro-science going on in this thread that ignores the DIN standard. The only difference in performance from a binding set in the middle of it's range, and the ends is the actual release value. A properly set up binding should perform the same within it's whole range of release values. That is how they are designed, and that is a standard they need to conform to so that they can be indemnified.
Nov 22 2018 4:03PM
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Schneidy_5
Posts: 24 - Karma: 24
SessionThere is a lot of skier bro-science going on in this thread that ignores the DIN standard. The only difference in performance from a binding set in the middle of it's range, and the ends is the actual release value. A properly set up binding should perform the same within it's whole range of release values. That is how they are designed, and that is a standard they need to conform to so that they can be indemnified.


So what setting should I put my DIN at
Nov 22 2018 7:45PM
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Session
Posts: 5372 - Karma: 22,045
Schneidy_5So what setting should I put my DIN at


The shop will set your din based upon height, weight and skiing style.
Nov 22 2018 9:21PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4781 - Karma: 17,003
Schneidy_5So what setting should I put my DIN at

They use a calculator like this:
http://www.mechanicsofsport.com/skiing/equipment/bindings/din-calculator.html
This will provide you a rough guideline of your range, certainly close enough to help you choose an appropriate binding.
Nov 22 2018 11:00PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4781 - Karma: 17,003
The referenced post has been removed.


Same calcs in printed form, but yeah I get it.
Nov 23 2018 2:01AM
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