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Haglund's Deformity (Bone Spurs) & Boots

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Crispy.
Posts: 6123 - Karma: 7,741
Hi all. So unfortunately my 2-pairs-ago boots gave me gnarly bone spurs on the heels of both feet. I've gotten new boots since then, but my new boots still give me pain (actually, it's interesting, the only time the spurs hurt is in ski boots, never anywhere else. Even when running, walking, waterskiing, ect.).

I went to see a doc and he said that if they continue to hurt when skiing, I will have to have surgery to have them removed in order to ski pain-free again. Surgery would put me out for this entire winter, so I'm doing my best to avoid that.

For those of you who have experience with this kind of thing/with bootfitting in general, have you fit someone with Haglund's deformities and were you able to make adjustments so that they were able to ski pain-free?

Thanks
Ethan
7 years ago
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TheWeaz
Posts: 803 - Karma: 1,903
A boot fitter may be able to punch the heels
of your current boots to give some pressure relief on the bone spurs, but in doing so you may sacrifice the ankle/ heel hold.

Alterbatively, boots with custom shells may be able to be molded around the spurs. Atomic and salomon do the best custom shells as far as I know, but they boots need to relatively fit your foot first. Nordica does an infared custom shel but I’m not positive that includes all the way back to the heel or more so just the front of the boot where punches are more common.

A good local bootfitter if probably the place to start since it may take multiple tries to get it perfect.
7 years ago
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tfsh
Posts: 190 - Karma: 554
Yes I get this. Fischer vacuum boots and new liners every 10-15 days helped solve this. Also, keeping forward pressure at all times is a big factor and sadly things like butters and presses can and most likely will exhasterbate the issue. But I’m telling you right here, if you ski like a racer you won’t be in pain and you will still have fun. It sucks but there’s ways to make it better if not entirely non existent when skiing
7 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6744 - Karma: 11,755
Normally there's enough material to grind a home for your heels spurs.

This area can also be punched with a lot of success, depending on its location and how close it is to the binding heel.

Shouldn't be a big issue to fix.
7 years ago
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Turnfarmer
Posts: 62 - Karma: 83
Excessive movement will make this problem worse- Heel lift, excessive pronation/supination etc. is your foot stabilized with a foot bed?

The standard 1" burr most ski shops use for grinding is perfect for Haglund's belief, easy to do.

Don't take surgery for Haglunds lightly, do your research and get more than one opinion. It's not a simple procedure nor easy to recover from.

If you have limited dorsiflexion in your ankles it makes the problem worse as once you hit end range of motion you constantly bang your heel into the boot. Get stretched out, do stretching with knee extended and flexed. It takes a lot of work and time for this to occur. Keep at it.

If stretching with both knee extended and flexed does't pull in your calf see a PT/Chiropractor for ankle mobilization.
7 years ago
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Crispy.
Posts: 6123 - Karma: 7,741
TurnfarmerExcessive movement will make this problem worse- Heel lift, excessive pronation/supination etc. is your foot stabilized with a foot bed?

The standard 1" burr most ski shops use for grinding is perfect for Haglund's belief, easy to do.

Don't take surgery for Haglunds lightly, do your research and get more than one opinion. It's not a simple procedure nor easy to recover from.

If you have limited dorsiflexion in your ankles it makes the problem worse as once you hit end range of motion you constantly bang your heel into the boot. Get stretched out, do stretching with knee extended and flexed. It takes a lot of work and time for this to occur. Keep at it.

If stretching with both knee extended and flexed does't pull in your calf see a PT/Chiropractor for ankle mobilization.


Hi, thank you for your answer. Everyone's advice that this can generally be fixed with some boot adjustments has lifted my spirits greatly!

I do have one custom Superfeet Korks for footbeds.

I am going to take my boots to the nearest bootfitter this weekend. I already had them punched out in the heel when in Oregon this summer. That seemed to help maybe a little bit but I definitely still had a lot of pain. However, I haven't skied in a couple months now, so all of the swelling is gone and it's just the spurs. I'm hopeful that this time off and letting the swelling go down will minimize/eliminate the pain when I'm back on snow.

That said, will the boots already being punched out in the heels make it a stupid option to get a grind? Like would I be better off getting a new pair of boots?

As for stretching, do you have any exercises in particular that you'd recommend?
7 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6744 - Karma: 11,755
Crispy.That said, will the boots already being punched out in the heels make it a stupid option to get a grind? Like would I be better off getting a new pair of boots?


Stretching plastic vs. grinding plastic and when to do which first depends on the boot and the available plastic in the area. It doesn't really matter so long as the end result works for you.

One thing you might want to look into is a new liner though. Many stock alpine liners are very firm and have lots of stitching in the heel area that can prevent the liner from taking the shape of the new formed shell. Getting an Intuition liner or a foam injection liner can definitely improve the effectiveness of the stretched/ground area.
7 years ago
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Crispy.
Posts: 6123 - Karma: 7,741
onenerdykidS

One thing you might want to look into is a new liner though. Many stock alpine liners are very firm and have lots of stitching in the heel area that can prevent the liner from taking the shape of the new formed shell. Getting an Intuition liner or a foam injection liner can definitely improve the effectiveness of the stretched/ground area.


One question I have on this...but you might not have an answer. As I said in the OP, literally the ONLY my heels hurt is in ski boots (where it has gotten to the point where I've had to call it a day due to the pain). Considering the pain is only in a ski boot, my thinking was that it would be the hard plastic backing (which no other footwear that I wear has) and not the liner (which is similar to what you might find in the heel of shoe). You still think it's possible that the liners not expanding to fit the punchout could be causing my pain?


Also, the force of impact in a ski boot is much higher than in a shoe...

D
7 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6744 - Karma: 11,755
Crispy.One question I have on this...but you might not have an answer. As I said in the OP, literally the ONLY my heels hurt is in ski boots (where it has gotten to the point where I've had to call it a day due to the pain). Considering the pain is only in a ski boot, my thinking was that it would be the hard plastic backing (which no other footwear that I wear has) and not the liner (which is similar to what you might find in the heel of shoe). You still think it's possible that the liners not expanding to fit the punchout could be causing my pain?


Also, the force of impact in a ski boot is much higher than in a shoe...

D


You'd be surprised how much pressure a liner can exert on the foot, especially in areas where it is stitched together. Depends on the liner too. Yours might be totally fine (which is what by the way?)

And it's exacerbated when next to plastic. For sure the plastic will be the main cause, so shell work is the main thing to accomplish. I was just saying that if it's not 100% solved by shell work, then look to the liner for the next steps.
7 years ago
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Crispy.
Posts: 6123 - Karma: 7,741
onenerdykidYou'd be surprised how much pressure a liner can exert on the foot, especially in areas where it is stitched together. Depends on the liner too. Yours might be totally fine (which is what by the way?)

And it's exacerbated when next to plastic. For sure the plastic will be the main cause, so shell work is the main thing to accomplish. I was just saying that if it's not 100% solved by shell work, then look to the liner for the next steps.


I was meaning to add! I’ve got hawk ultra 130s, which i know that you know a little bit about. As I said in the OP, they were what gave me the spurs, but still experienced pain in them.
7 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6744 - Karma: 11,755
Crispy.I was meaning to add! I’ve got hawk ultra 130s, which i know that you know a little bit about. As I said in the OP, they were what gave me the spurs, but still experienced pain in them.


Well, hopefully they are working out in other ways for you ;)

With this boot, grinding is a no-go. The shell is too thin. But it's super stretchable with a proper boot-fitting press. Plus, you'll gain more space via stretching than grinding anyway.

The liner is very hard in the ankle/heel area in order to have that nice 3D shape and give a secure fit in the boot. It could be that a different liner is the way to go, but don't go down that road until you have the heel stretched around your spur.
7 years ago
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Crispy.
Posts: 6123 - Karma: 7,741
onenerdykidWell, hopefully they are working out in other ways for you ;)

With this boot, grinding is a no-go. The shell is too thin. But it's super stretchable with a proper boot-fitting press. Plus, you'll gain more space via stretching than grinding anyway.

The liner is very hard in the ankle/heel area in order to have that nice 3D shape and give a secure fit in the boot. It could be that a different liner is the way to go, but don't go down that road until you have the heel stretched around your spur.


Forgive my lack of boot knowledge, but is stretching a boot the same as punching it out? Both heels have already been punched out. I greatly, greatly appreciate your help, and yes the boots are wonderful : )
7 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6744 - Karma: 11,755
Crispy.Forgive my lack of boot knowledge, but is stretching a boot the same as punching it out? Both heels have already been punched out. I greatly, greatly appreciate your help, and yes the boots are wonderful : )


Yep, stretching is punching.

Let me know how it goes!
7 years ago
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Crispy.
Posts: 6123 - Karma: 7,741
onenerdykidYep, stretching is punching.

Let me know how it goes!


Bootfitter independently came to the same idea as you, and I ended up getting intuition liners. Hard to tell without skiing, but I'm very optimistic that these will hold my foot a bit better and help! I appreciate yours and everyone's advice, thanks guys.
7 years ago
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Mcessna93
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Crispy.Bootfitter independently came to the same idea as you, and I ended up getting intuition liners. Hard to tell without skiing, but I'm very optimistic that these will hold my foot a bit better and help! I appreciate yours and everyone's advice, thanks guys.



I have the exact same problem as you to a T. I just wanted to check in and see how the intuition liner changed things for you. I am on the fence about my options. How’s it going now?
6 years ago
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Eachung
Posts: 72 - Karma: 243
I also have a bone spur not on my heel but below my ankle. For me eith out getting any fancy liners or shit is to buy a gel pad and I put that on every time I go skiing. I have had the same one for like 2 seasons. They are like 20-30 bucks. I think it's worth the investment. But I'm not sure if it would work for the heel area. Anyway good luck
6 years ago
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Crispy.
Posts: 6123 - Karma: 7,741
Went with a bigger boot. Although I definitely sacrifice that performance fit and some control, MY HEEL PAIN IS SOLVED!!! At first, I was sketched out by how loose these felt compared to my old boots, but I hardly notice it now. Totally worth the trade off.
6 years ago
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alextheknife
Posts: 135 - Karma: 695
Got my Hawx Ultras punched for Haglund's on both heels yesterday and also swapped some intuition liners. Zero pain on back of the heel and didn't mess up with the heel hold. Slightly pinching achilles though but I guess it's more due to new liners. I've never dealt with Haglund's before since I haven't had much pain until now. Feels so good to have even pressure on heel area as well.
6 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
Has anyone ever been able to butter and nollie again with this?
5 years ago
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,095
If i were you id just say fuck it and get the surgery. Youll be happiest being able to ski normal boots without needing to blast the shell to shit. surgeons are the true pimps of humanity.

**This post was edited on Apr 6th 2020 at 4:11:44am
5 years ago
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mott
Posts: 259 - Karma: 2,104
.

**This post was edited on Jul 26th 2020 at 4:37:47pm
5 years ago
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,290
Dont get surgery your achilles will thank you.

if you can fit a race boot, do it. You can grind the heel pocket super easy. A foam injection liner is also a great option.
5 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
I'm not getting surgery and I will be dropping money on perfectly fitting boots. My problem is that I can't really nollie or nosebutter which I love to do. Has anyone who had haglunds on their heel been able to do this again?
5 years ago
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,290
BigPurpleSkiSuitI'm not getting surgery and I will be dropping money on perfectly fitting boots. My problem is that I can't really nollie or nosebutter which I love to do. Has anyone who had haglunds on their heel been able to do this again?


I have them on both heels and can do it with stiff raceboots with heels ground out
5 years ago
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SkierPT
Posts: 2209 - Karma: 4,910
Working on ankle Mobility and ankle stability would mostly likely help.

DM or check out my IG @SkiingPhysicalTherapy
5 years ago
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,290
I disagree. This is mostly caused by overflexing the boots and irritating the bone over and over against the plastic
SkierPTWorking on ankle Mobility and ankle stability would mostly likely help.

DM or check out my IG @SkiingPhysicalTherapy
5 years ago
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SkierPT
Posts: 2209 - Karma: 4,910
Mr_pretzelI disagree. This is mostly caused by overflexing the boots and irritating the bone over and over against the plastic


Everything is connected my guy. A stiff joint creates compensations elsewhere, up and down the kinetic chain.

Working on mobility along with getting properly fitting boots is a good place to start. Unless you have a better plan?
5 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6744 - Karma: 11,755
First, let's agree that one thing can be caused by a few different things.

It's definitely true that over flexing a ski boot (especially one that is downsized / 1cm shell fit) and just having boots that don't fit can lead to Haglund's. If the heel pocket contours do not match the heel's actual contours, then this sort of thing happens.

And for sure that a limited amount of dorsiflexion combined with a boot that is too soft can also do it.

But both will result in the heel rubbing/coming into contact with the radius of the heel pocket. In my experience, without the rubbing/shell contact you don't get a Haglund's Deformity.
5 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
I'm such an idiot, I had a boot that fit like a vacuum and thought everything was solved but I realize now it's the heel contours and overflexing. Salomon S Max 120 and I'm basically doing freeride stuff at this point. I should have ponied up for the booster strap and 130 but I had no idea this would happen, I just thought I had a tickle on my heel at first that got worse and worse
onenerdykidFirst, let's agree that one thing can be caused by a few different things.

It's definitely true that over flexing a ski boot (especially one that is downsized / 1cm shell fit) and just having boots that don't fit can lead to Haglund's. If the heel pocket contours do not match the heel's actual contours, then this sort of thing happens.

And for sure that a limited amount of dorsiflexion combined with a boot that is too soft can also do it.

But both will result in the heel rubbing/coming into contact with the radius of the heel pocket. In my experience, without the rubbing/shell contact you don't get a Haglund's Deformity.
5 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6744 - Karma: 11,755
BigPurpleSkiSuitI'm such an idiot, I had a boot that fit like a vacuum and thought everything was solved but I realize now it's the heel contours and overflexing. Salomon S Max 120 and I'm basically doing freeride stuff at this point. I should have ponied up for the booster strap and 130 but I had no idea this would happen, I just thought I had a tickle on my heel at first that got worse and worse

Don't beat yourself up too hard over it, I have these too. I have to test boots continuously (unfitted, without footbeds) and my feet finally gave out this year.

Just make sure to get a boot that is stiff/stable enough for you and have them stretched/ground in the areas you need.
5 years ago
1 0
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,095
I cant believe you could endure so much discomfort to actually produce such an ungodly biological fuckup as hd.

i still say get the surgery.

bitches love surgery.
5 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
I'd like to keep my Achilles intact if at all possible which it sounds like it should be. Who's the best bootfitter in Utah? I'm just going to start ground up and see what he says.
DolanReloadedI cant believe you could endure so much discomfort to actually produce such an ungodly biological fuckup as hd.

i still say get the surgery.

bitches love surgery.
5 years ago
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dolanslebensraum
Posts: 5959 - Karma: -13,095
BigPurpleSkiSuitI'd like to keep my Achilles intact if at all possible which it sounds like it should be. Who's the best bootfitter in Utah? I'm just going to start ground up and see what he says.


Like i said. Bitches love surgery...
5 years ago
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Crispy.
Posts: 6123 - Karma: 7,741
BigPurpleSkiSuitI'd like to keep my Achilles intact if at all possible which it sounds like it should be. Who's the best bootfitter in Utah? I'm just going to start ground up and see what he says.


I had luck at SportsDen in SLC
5 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
Deformity is now acting up when I run trails, I think I'm gonna get the surgery now before it gets any worse and I'll have 5-6 months to recover
5 years ago
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ColoradoDogfart
Posts: 2478 - Karma: 30,011
BigPurpleSkiSuitDeformity is now acting up when I run trails, I think I'm gonna get the surgery now before it gets any worse and I'll have 5-6 months to recover


good luck man!
5 years ago
1 0
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
welp, can't see the doc until september and I don't want to risk losing out on a ski season, so I'll probably be dealing with this for the whole of next year unless I'm told the recovery is 2 months or less, since I'm hoping its so far out to the side they won't have to massacre my achilles
5 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
Update: I got boots from a friend for cheap to try hiking and skiing at Alta, and on top of realizing they were too small, I realize that the haglunds is definitely still there. I'm going to get a Salomon S Max 130, since the fit was perfect, I was just overflexing the boot and then I'll grind the shit out of the heel pocket, then considering stacking foam donuts in there too if it would help. . I wonder if there is some kind of a heel covering I can wear to try to make it a more uniform surface with less pressure on this thing. Looking for any advice. I realize I won't be able to do phat nollies which pains my soul, but I'd rather ski the whole year without nose pressing than not ski at all.
4 years ago
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9096 - Karma: 3,070
I have pretty bad Haglunds. I found that the Intuition liner in Full Tilts gave me a nice amount of cushioning. Combined with a medium flex tongue and a beefy Booster Strap, I haven't had mine get any worse. I completely crank my boots before I ski. Like it truly hurts how tight they are. And then I unbuckle before each lift ride to give my feet blood on the way up. Also make sure you're skiing in a good neutral stance. Too much downhill pressure is going to push your heels backwards. Sucks to not drive the ski as hard, but you can still rip and be in control as long as you know how to center your weight and use your edges. Good luck everyone. Shit sucks
4 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
Yung_GnarleyI have pretty bad Haglunds. I found that the Intuition liner in Full Tilts gave me a nice amount of cushioning. Combined with a medium flex tongue and a beefy Booster Strap, I haven't had mine get any worse. I completely crank my boots before I ski. Like it truly hurts how tight they are. And then I unbuckle before each lift ride to give my feet blood on the way up. Also make sure you're skiing in a good neutral stance. Too much downhill pressure is going to push your heels backwards. Sucks to not drive the ski as hard, but you can still rip and be in control as long as you know how to center your weight and use your edges. Good luck everyone. Shit sucks


I love getting forward on carves tho...but I can ski centered, so I guess I'll do that. Appreciate the info, and I will be slapping an intuition liner in there too.
4 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
I may have just solved my haglunds issue by putting cut up beer coozies on the back of my heel above the bone spur. Basically it alleviates the pressure on my heel spur when I flex forward in the boot and seems to redistribute it back to the rest of my heel. There is no point pain sensation, just feels like a normal heel again. This is insanely incredible just putting on boots and skis in my apartment and being able to butter on the noses again.

**This post was edited on Nov 29th 2020 at 5:46:39pm
4 years ago
1 0
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ColoradoDogfart
Posts: 2478 - Karma: 30,011
BigPurpleSkiSuitI may have just solved my haglunds issue by putting cut up beer coozies on the back of my heel above the bone spur. Basically it alleviates the pressure on my heel spur when I flex forward in the boot and seems to redistribute it back to the rest of my heel. There is no point pain sensation, just feels like a normal heel again. This is insanely incredible just putting on boots and skis in my apartment and being able to butter on the noses again.

**This post was edited on Nov 29th 2020 at 5:46:39pm


Doctors HATE him for this simple hack
4 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253
ColoradoDogfartDoctors HATE him for this simple hack


1 month later and I can say that this fixed my issue 100%. Did some experimentation with the foam and having the cushion be about 1 inch in width and the length of the beer coozie fits perfectly over my spur and around the back of my heel. I can flex the boot as hard as I want. If I nollie, it irritates it, but I've gotten knocked over my noses on moguls and there's no pain. Such a simple fix along with a boot grind, but if any of you have this issue, I would recommend giving this a go.
4 years ago
1 0
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6744 - Karma: 11,755
BigPurpleSkiSuit1 month later and I can say that this fixed my issue 100%. Did some experimentation with the foam and having the cushion be about 1 inch in width and the length of the beer coozie fits perfectly over my spur and around the back of my heel. I can flex the boot as hard as I want. If I nollie, it irritates it, but I've gotten knocked over my noses on moguls and there's no pain. Such a simple fix along with a boot grind, but if any of you have this issue, I would recommend giving this a go.


Isn't it awesome when a fix finally works? Nice job.
4 years ago
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9582 - Karma: 71,253








^my fix
4 years ago
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