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cydwhitYuuup. Skied em in everything from big, steep couloirs with 14” of fresh, to mellow dad pow, to big steep couloirs on boilerplate. They do just fine in just about everything.
If I’m headed out the door to just have fun/ski with the dog/jump off shit I’m on Ghost Trains, otherwise I’m on ski blades.
And yes, the Moment Voyager is a great blade binding
Lol no joke just listened to your two planks episode yesterday on a road trip. Logged back in for the first time in a couple months for other reasons and saw your reply. Funny coincidence.
Ran for 5 years, unfortunately had to come to an end to make room for newer models. Hopefully one day we throw it in the reserve collection as it's my favorite ski.
@EPfanboy was asking for some pics of the sidewall construction since he couldn't find any close ups online. Figured I'd drop them here for all to see. The Wildcat 101 and the Commander 108 are pictured.
We run semi-cap throughout the majority of the ski, with it tapering out to a flat top construction in the tip and tail region. All Moment skis (except the Comi, flat top construction) have this semi-cap. It helps with topsheet durability and provides a nice aesthetic to the ski.
The only skis in our current lineup that boast a different style semi-cap will be the Commanders (98, 108, tour), which feature the same semi-cap as everything else, with the inclusion of a flat top construction section underfoot, based around the mount location. This allows us to have full height sidewall and full width Titanal underfoot, allowing for increased edge pressure and hold on hardpack. This was added to the Commander series during the 20/21 lineup, with all previous Commanders (and all Commander 118's) being the traditional semi-cap design.
Semi-Cap Design, Wildcat 101 Pictured
Semi-Cap w/ Full Width Titanal Design, Commander 108 Pictured
All I can say rn is I love moments. When my dw 104 shows up I’ll have those, commander 108 (red owl ts) , and the 21 commander 98, now I just need the comi
Before I start sending obnoxious emails to Moment bugging them to re-release the Ghost Train, does anybody have a pair with room for another mount they want to sell me? I love mine to death, but the guy who had them before me skied tele and left so many damn holes in the ski, there's no way I can fit Voyagers onto them.
So sell me your used pair before I start desperately petitioning Moment to build me a tour layup ski in that triple camber mold.
cydwhitBefore I start sending obnoxious emails to Moment bugging them to re-release the Ghost Train, does anybody have a pair with room for another mount they want to sell me? I love mine to death, but the guy who had them before me skied tele and left so many damn holes in the ski, there's no way I can fit Voyagers onto them.
So sell me your used pair before I start desperately petitioning Moment to build me a tour layup ski in that triple camber mold.
If they do it I’ll buy one too, been kicking myself for not buying when it was in the reserve category, however I’m not worried, they’ll either do a short run of it in the reserve or build something similar and better
cydwhitBefore I start sending obnoxious emails to Moment bugging them to re-release the Ghost Train, does anybody have a pair with room for another mount they want to sell me? I love mine to death, but the guy who had them before me skied tele and left so many damn holes in the ski, there's no way I can fit Voyagers onto them.
So sell me your used pair before I start desperately petitioning Moment to build me a tour layup ski in that triple camber mold.
I have a pair of unmounted 168s, but that's probably too small for you
cydwhitBefore I start sending obnoxious emails to Moment bugging them to re-release the Ghost Train, does anybody have a pair with room for another mount they want to sell me? I love mine to death, but the guy who had them before me skied tele and left so many damn holes in the ski, there's no way I can fit Voyagers onto them.
So sell me your used pair before I start desperately petitioning Moment to build me a tour layup ski in that triple camber mold.
already posted on tgr and sent to moment and they have all said to get the WC101 but am leaning towards the C98. Thought i should get Ns input
Just wondering what ski you guys at moment would recommend was looking at the commander 98, wildcat 101 and death wish 104
Height: 5’11-6
Weight: 52kgs (114lbs)
Ability: Advanced
Favorite ski: Jeffrey 108 custom
Resorts: anywhere in Nz Tc, Cardrona, Turoa Etc
Current quiver: J108 custom, BC 100 (going to sell)
Looking for a ski to replace my BC100 and was wondering what i should get out of the C98, WC101 and DW104. My preferred style of skiing is playful chargey boosting side hits and hitting cliffs, trying to butter, popping off things, occasionally spinning and skiing groomers sometimes. Skiing in Nz can not be the most ideal sometimes with ice, crud, dust on crust and wind blown snow. I dont want to much overlap with my J108 so was looking at the C98 which seems to be more freeride instead of freestyle orientated. This ski would be my daily driver to go along side my J108 for touring and powder
You'll put it on in the next couple years. Don't rush it.
EPfanboyResorts: anywhere in Nz Tc, Cardrona, Turoa Etc
Looking for a ski to replace my BC100 and was wondering what i should get out of the C98, WC101 and DW104. My preferred style of skiing is playful chargey boosting side hits and hitting cliffs, trying to butter, popping off things, occasionally spinning and skiing groomers sometimes. Skiing in Nz can not be the most ideal sometimes with ice, crud, dust on crust and wind blown snow. I dont want to much overlap with my J108 so was looking at the C98 which seems to be more freeride instead of freestyle orientated. This ski would be my daily driver to go along side my J108 for touring and powder
You're looking or two different skis here. The Deathwish is probably too close to your Jefferies, despite being a very different ski. But if I were in your shoes, I'd go for the Commanders, just because of where you ski. They won't be as playful as the Wildcats, but they'll handle the conditions better. New Zealand was the only place I've skied where I enjoyed having stiffer, skinnier skis.
The 188s will beat the tar out of you 🤣, you need to start pounding pbj sammiches at night, eat a ridiculous amount of red meat protein and squats and cleans everyday, gzuz if you wear baggy gear the wind will blow you away, no offense I’m a skinny stick too but I’m heavy-ish
EPfanboyMy preferred style of skiing is playful chargey boosting side hits and hitting cliffs, trying to butter, popping off things, occasionally spinning and skiing groomers sometimes. Skiing in Nz can not be the most ideal sometimes with ice, crud, dust on crust and wind blown snow.
Nothing in this description screams directional charger, nor does your weight suggest that you should get on one. Like, they will probably be too much ski if in the correct lenght to your height and not playful in the least compared to a WC, unless you buy a tiny pair to fit with your weight. Like, if you like to butter any directional charger on the market is not your ski - they are all designed to do big, sweeping arcs at the highest possible speed regardless of conditions.
On the other hand, the Wildcat in its different guises is commenly referred to as a playful charger - something that fits very well with you description.
So - to be bit blunt - how many times do you really need to be told the same thing? What it is with the Commaders that have so grabbed your attention? :)
Also re lazylightning, wasn't the mounting rec on the new Commanders to mount on the line because the moint point already catered to the feel modern charger+2 mounts usually yield? If so one could ask at some point if people mount forward because it actually produces the desired effect there or if it is down to habit or preferred mount point irrespective of the ski in question's geometry / flex pattern.
Yeah i would mount them +2 from rec, they dont need to be playful because i have my J108s. Your right about getting another opinion, the C98s are the skis i want to ride.
why did you say, and what about -8 is more directional than -10? I feel -10 is more directional, and -8 would be directional but easier to maneuver, which is why the c98 was moved to -10 compared to -8, making it a more directional charger.
EPfanboy: sounds good - if it is that skis that makes you stoked, go for it. That being said, after having thought about it a bit more I think you would be better served with a custom softer ON3P wren or wood for that kind of ski. Not because the Commanders (or WC101) will not absolutely slay and are great skis, but because your height/weight is pretty outside the norm and the range these skis are designed to accomodate. A stock ski bought to fit your height will be too stiff, while a ski bought to fit your weight will arguably too short. So why not get a ski that fits you length wise, yet also a stiffness that your weight can excel with? Enter ON3P's custom sale. Sorry if suggesting skis from another brand in the Moment thread is poor form. And yes, sorry of my last reply came off as salty - that was not my intent.
lazylightening: https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/moment-skis-20-21-lineup-ep-111 listen to this one from 15min and on :) That is what I was referring to :) My comment was specific to the commander98s and 108s, not all skis - I am totally pro experimenting with mounts if it floats your boat and make a ski ski like you want it to.
kid-kapowEPfanboy: sounds good - if it is that skis that makes you stoked, go for it. That being said, after having thought about it a bit more I think you would be better served with a custom softer ON3P wren or wood for that kind of ski. Not because the Commanders (or WC101) will not absolutely slay and are great skis, but because your height/weight is pretty outside the norm and the range these skis are designed to accomodate. A stock ski bought to fit your height will be too stiff, while a ski bought to fit your weight will arguably too short. So why not get a ski that fits you length wise, yet also a stiffness that your weight can excel with? Enter ON3P's custom sale. Sorry if suggesting skis from another brand in the Moment thread is poor form. And yes, sorry of my last reply came off as salty - that was not my intent.
lazylightening: https://blisterreview.com/podcasts/moment-skis-20-21-lineup-ep-111 listen to this one from 15min and on :) That is what I was referring to :) My comment was specific to the commander98s and 108s, not all skis - I am totally pro experimenting with mounts if it floats your boat and make a ski ski like you want it to.
Some clarification about the Commander mount point between the original design (18/19 & 19/20) and the newer design (20/21 & 21/22).
The original Commanders had a rec mount point of -8cm, which is a fairly directional mount, at least by our standards. The issue started to arise when we saw a handful of our athletes, customers, and employees all bumping the mount +2cm from the rec line. Something we do on a good amount of our skis if the skier wants a little more freestyle performance, needs a bump in maneuverability, or is sizing up significantly and wants to make the larger ski a tad easier to ski.
Nothing wrong with this, as we regularly do it on the Wildcat series. But we started realizing that we were skiing the Wildcat at -6 (a twin rockered, "freestyle" design) and skiing the Commander at -6 (a flatter tailed, "freeride" directional design).
We didn't redesign the Commander with the sole purpose of moving the mount point, we redesigned the Commander to make it a more aggressive ski, adding stiffness, more metal, more effective edge, etc...but we also bumped the mount back a little during the process.
Now, when skiers bump the mount +2cm for that more freestyle oriented performance (or any of the other reasons stated above), you still land at -8cm, a fairly directional mount point.
Happy to answer any additional questions regarding the old v. new mount point.
hot.pocket... and employees all bumping the mount +2cm from the rec line. Something we do on a good amount of our skis if the skier wants a little more freestyle performance, needs a bump in maneuverability, or is sizing up significantly and wants to make the larger ski a tad easier to ski.
hm, interesting. Would you care to elaborate a bit on the effect various mount points will have on Wildcats specifically and the effects of going back/forward of rec will do? (more than the websites "more nimble vs mr sluggish" description) Especially as I had been considering going back a cm, but your points above describes going forward as the more appropriate action.
I have a pair of 184s inbound and have been pondering where to mount them a bit. I loved my late wildcat108s at recommended on harder snow, but felt that getting the tails around in was a bit of a chore in deep, if relatively dense snow.
I haven't had the same experience on my woodsman108s, in spite of them being more ski (stiffer, heavier). As such I am not sure if it was just specific conditions on that day that caused the feeling or (perhaps more likely) if was caused by the relatively softer tails with more splay on le wc108s (most likely a combination of the two).
Sodo you think that moving the mount aft/forward will ease this characteristic at all? I am kinda hesitant to move the mount too as I so enjoyed the 108s at recommended in all but this one condition.
I haven’t mounted my c98 yet, would -8 or -9 put me in front of the cambers center? I will still prob go rec, but I haven’t decided yet
hot.pocketSome clarification about the Commander mount point between the original design (18/19 & 19/20) and the newer design (20/21 & 21/22).
The original Commanders had a rec mount point of -8cm, which is a fairly directional mount, at least by our standards. The issue started to arise when we saw a handful of our athletes, customers, and employees all bumping the mount +2cm from the rec line. Something we do on a good amount of our skis if the skier wants a little more freestyle performance, needs a bump in maneuverability, or is sizing up significantly and wants to make the larger ski a tad easier to ski.
Nothing wrong with this, as we regularly do it on the Wildcat series. But we started realizing that we were skiing the Wildcat at -6 (a twin rockered, "freestyle" design) and skiing the Commander at -6 (a flatter tailed, "freeride" directional design).
We didn't redesign the Commander with the sole purpose of moving the mount point, we redesigned the Commander to make it a more aggressive ski, adding stiffness, more metal, more effective edge, etc...but we also bumped the mount back a little during the process.
Now, when skiers bump the mount +2cm for that more freestyle oriented performance (or any of the other reasons stated above), you still land at -8cm, a fairly directional mount point.
Happy to answer any additional questions regarding the old v. new mount point.
If it helps anyone.... I have 4 pairs of moment skis, all of which are all 11-17cm taller than I am. I am a mostly directional big mountain skier with a big emphasison playfulness, but I dabble around skiing switch too. I mounted all of them at recommend, and I have been very happy with that. I mounted my old PB&J skis +2 from recommended and when I remounted them, I went back to recommended and was (slightly) happier. I have no experience with the Commander though.
kid-kapowhm, interesting. Would you care to elaborate a bit on the effect various mount points will have on Wildcats specifically and the effects of going back/forward of rec will do? (more than the websites "more nimble vs mr sluggish" description) Especially as I had been considering going back a cm, but your points above describes going forward as the more appropriate action.
In general, forward puts you ahead of the sidecut apex, making the ski engage quicker and more abruptly, backwards gives more float, but turn initiation becomes delayed and feels like driving a boat. Additionally, quite a bit of this is also dependent on (word vomit) how you like to ski as well as how you like to make the ski behave in a way that allows you to ski like how you like to ski. Some employee examples below.
Both Luke and I mount the Wildcat 108 at rec.
Luke (the form lord) prefers to drive the ski and mounting on the line rewards his aggressive, racer stance when skiing fast through a variety of terrain. Why doesn't he mount back a bit to give him more ski up front? Because this puts him behind the apex of the sidecut, making turn initiation slower and creating a feeling of driving a boat, where the turn is ever so slightly delayed from input to output, not something most ex racers are fans of.
I (the wiggle worm) like to ski with a more centered stance and tend to surf and slash my way through stuff, remaining light on my feet. I don't have the raw skiing strength or technique of Luke, so I try to 'bob and float' through chop and crud as opposed to simply bashing through it. Why don't I mount forward for added maneuverability? Because I like the consistency of the turn on the rec line and am not as much of a fan of the 'twitchiness' that can arise by bumping forward, as being in front of the sidecut apex will push the ski to engage quicker in the turn. I've adapted how I make the ski behave to allow me to remain on the rec line for turn consistency, while also increasing the maneuverability by being light on my feet (lots of keeping the tips planted while lifting the tails up / throwing them around, and being very over the front of my boots).
Fasa and Tyler mount the Wildcat 108 at ~+2cm from rec.
Fasa (the anti-turner) makes very few turns. I also don't know if I've ever seen Fasa ski switch in the several seasons I have with him as a daily ski partner. Why doesn't Fasa ski on the rec line if all he does is charge forward and (basically) only turn when trees get in the way? Because he rocks a very upright and centered stance, and while he can fold his boot effectively, having the ski engage into the turn with the slightest pressure aids his skiing style. Most of it is fast and straight, but occasionally he needs the ski to quickly turn left or right a touch.
Tyler (the high diver) skis very aggressively and in a lot of high consequence terrain, but is also a young gun who likes to throw a variety of spins and flips off big cliffs. Moving forward allows him some better air control and flickability for those big lofty threes or dumping 7's off Revy diving boards (see pic below). Now while he would get some help in the aggressive skiing department by being on the rec line, the air control and maneuverability are more important in his ski, because he can muscle through the chop and crud and doesn't need his ski to do as much work for him. The pros of air control and maneuverability are worth the extra leg work when driving through challenging terrain.
kid-kapowI haven't had the same experience on my woodsman108s, in spite of them being more ski (stiffer, heavier). As such I am not sure if it was just specific conditions on that day that caused the feeling or (perhaps more likely) if was caused by the relatively softer tails with more splay on le wc108s (most likely a combination of the two).
Heavier, stiffer ON3P is probably pushing the dense snow around with the tail with more authority at speed, which requires less effort from you. At least that's my guess.
kid-kapowSo do you think that moving the mount aft/forward will ease this characteristic at all? I am kinda hesitant to move the mount too as I so enjoyed the 108s at recommended in all but this one condition.
thanks in advance for any and all input!
I would be hesitant to move back as you will rely more on the tail of the ski and I think it will get tougher to move the tail around in dense 3D snow, as it will be more difficult to dump the tip of the ski into the next turn. The tail follows the tip, and if dumping the tip left or right becomes more difficult, the feeling you're experiencing might become more drastic.
You could certainly bump a cm or two forward, but it will cause the ski to engage into the turn much quicker and with a slight abruptness. If it's love in 90% of situations, I would probably stick with the rec line and make minor adjustments in how you ski that exact condition to both keep your skiing style that you enjoy, while making that 10% easier on you.
SavageBiffI haven’t mounted my c98 yet, would -8 or -9 put me in front of the cambers center? I will still prob go rec, but I haven’t decided yet
It will put you in front of the apex of the sidecut and the ski will engage quicker and become more maneuverable. More examples from the team, a lot of us bump the mount on the Commander 108 +2cm from rec, where off piste maneuverability and quickness are preferred to compliment the aggressive and chargy nature of the C108.
On the other hand, most of us mount the Commander 98 on the line, because the quickness and maneuverability isn't as present on the groomers, where we spend most of our time while ripping the C98. Being on the apex of the sidecut and allowing a smooth transition from turn to turn outweigh the quickness from bumping the mount.
Hope all this info helps, hit me up for any clarifications.
hot.pocketIn general, forward puts you ahead of the sidecut apex, making the ski engage quicker and more abruptly, backwards gives more float, but turn initiation becomes delayed and feels like driving a boat. Additionally, quite a bit of this is also dependent on (word vomit) how you like to ski as well as how you like to make the ski behave in a way that allows you to ski like how you like to ski. Some employee examples below.
Both Luke and I mount the Wildcat 108 at rec.
Luke (the form lord) prefers to drive the ski and mounting on the line rewards his aggressive, racer stance when skiing fast through a variety of terrain. Why doesn't he mount back a bit to give him more ski up front? Because this puts him behind the apex of the sidecut, making turn initiation slower and creating a feeling of driving a boat, where the turn is ever so slightly delayed from input to output, not something most ex racers are fans of.
I (the wiggle worm) like to ski with a more centered stance and tend to surf and slash my way through stuff, remaining light on my feet. I don't have the raw skiing strength or technique of Luke, so I try to 'bob and float' through chop and crud as opposed to simply bashing through it. Why don't I mount forward for added maneuverability? Because I like the consistency of the turn on the rec line and am not as much of a fan of the 'twitchiness' that can arise by bumping forward, as being in front of the sidecut apex will push the ski to engage quicker in the turn. I've adapted how I make the ski behave to allow me to remain on the rec line for turn consistency, while also increasing the maneuverability by being light on my feet (lots of keeping the tips planted while lifting the tails up / throwing them around, and being very over the front of my boots).
Fasa and Tyler mount the Wildcat 108 at ~+2cm from rec.
Fasa (the anti-turner) makes very few turns. I also don't know if I've ever seen Fasa ski switch in the several seasons I have with him as a daily ski partner. Why doesn't Fasa ski on the rec line if all he does is charge forward and (basically) only turn when trees get in the way? Because he rocks a very upright and centered stance, and while he can fold his boot effectively, having the ski engage into the turn with the slightest pressure aids his skiing style. Most of it is fast and straight, but occasionally he needs the ski to quickly turn left or right a touch.
Tyler (the high diver) skis very aggressively and in a lot of high consequence terrain, but is also a young gun who likes to throw a variety of spins and flips off big cliffs. Moving forward allows him some better air control and flickability for those big lofty threes or dumping 7's off Revy diving boards (see pic below). Now while he would get some help in the aggressive skiing department by being on the rec line, the air control and maneuverability are more important in his ski, because he can muscle through the chop and crud and doesn't need his ski to do as much work for him. The pros of air control and maneuverability are worth the extra leg work when driving through challenging terrain.
Heavier, stiffer ON3P is probably pushing the dense snow around with the tail with more authority at speed, which requires less effort from you. At least that's my guess.
I would be hesitant to move back as you will rely more on the tail of the ski and I think it will get tougher to move the tail around in dense 3D snow, as it will be more difficult to dump the tip of the ski into the next turn. The tail follows the tip, and if dumping the tip left or right becomes more difficult, the feeling you're experiencing might become more drastic.
You could certainly bump a cm or two forward, but it will cause the ski to engage into the turn much quicker and with a slight abruptness. If it's love in 90% of situations, I would probably stick with the rec line and make minor adjustments in how you ski that exact condition to both keep your skiing style that you enjoy, while making that 10% easier on you.
It will put you in front of the apex of the sidecut and the ski will engage quicker and become more maneuverable. More examples from the team, a lot of us bump the mount on the Commander 108 +2cm from rec, where off piste maneuverability and quickness are preferred to compliment the aggressive and chargy nature of the C108.
On the other hand, most of us mount the Commander 98 on the line, because the quickness and maneuverability isn't as present on the groomers, where we spend most of our time while ripping the C98. Being on the apex of the sidecut and allowing a smooth transition from turn to turn outweigh the quickness from bumping the mount.
Hope all this info helps, hit me up for any clarifications.
holy crap - that was an amazingly detailed and nuanced reply. Color me impressed. Too often people reply "i think so, so so it must be", but this was just the type of reply that I love - nuanced and with a focus on details. Mind blown.
I should have added (couldn't edit the post) that said feeling only occur at slower speeds in soft snow where I have to do big direction changes. I usually like to ski the sidecut rather than pivot on these kinds of skis, but where your reply makes me think that the issue is more one of changing how I ski in these limited circumstances, not fuck with the mount point. Mounting back is def not what I am after then as I like skis that reward an aggressive stance and carving, I do not want them to be more placid.
I've kinda found the same with the softer Dynastar M-Free 108 and ON3P Woodsman108tours - I find them to be more work to ski in denser soft snow than the stiffer first gen Woodsman108s, again when doing turns at slower speeds or where you have to change direction fast. All do well at speed when doing huge arcs.
And yeah, Wildcat108s are freaking amazing on hard snow on recommended imho and float better than a -6 heavily rockered playful charger should - great skis.
Thank you so much for taking the time and effort to write such an awesome reply!
you should consider adding that reply in FAQ section on you site. Do the current reply as "quick reply" and then have "slightly longer reply" posted underneath.
I am still absolutely blown away from your reply man, absolutely incredible and much appreciated.
Not that anyone elected me as a qualified judge, but @hot.pocket s reply was incredible! Thank you! Your comparing of the different skiers styles and mount points really helped me with my decision, I’m gonna go rec, now if it was the new 108 I’d probably bump +2
thx again!!
cydwhitBefore I start sending obnoxious emails to Moment bugging them to re-release the Ghost Train, does anybody have a pair with room for another mount they want to sell me? I love mine to death, but the guy who had them before me skied tele and left so many damn holes in the ski, there's no way I can fit Voyagers onto them.
So sell me your used pair before I start desperately petitioning Moment to build me a tour layup ski in that triple camber mold.
Trying to build a small quiver for the first time in my life. Shooting for 3 skis right now. Very new to the world of skis outside of the one ski quiver so bear with me.
Currently I have an older pair of Wildcats that are nearing the end of their lifespan. Couple core shots and an edge compression pretty much all from a week at Big Sky last year. Don’t mind keeping these in the rotation but would be fine with replacing them. More on this later. second ski I currently have is a pair of Bentchetler 120s with shift 13s that I plan to use in and out of bounds on deep days.
Looking for a ski to put a pair of pivots with cast on. So would be skiing these most days in bounds and taking them on tours when its not that deep. I'm thinking either the Deathwish 104 or the wildcat 101. I loved the wildcat when it was my only ski, but I'm just curious as to how the Deathwish 104 is going to ski compared to the wildcat 101? Will the Deathwish be stiffer and more chargy than the 101?
If so, my other option would be to maybe get a pair of commanders (looking for thoughts on 98 vs 108 as well) for a harder charging, crud ski and then maybe get rid of my current pair of wildcats either this year or next and replace them with the 108.
So to simplify:
Bentchetler 120 w/ shift for deep tours
Wildcat with pivots for deep in bounds days
Deathwish 104 w/cast OR wildcat 101 w/cast for in bounds and tours
Or
Bentchetler 120 w/shifts for deep tours and deep inbounds days
Wildcat 108 w/cast for every day inbounds and tours
Commander 98 w/pivots for poorer conditions inbounds, skiing fast, and ripping groomers.
Edit: I’m ~6’4” 190 if that matters at all
**This post was edited on Aug 18th 2021 at 10:03:15pm
