Jump Construction Thread

depends on the resort I think. most of the ones I've worked at just eyeball it then test it, but I Imagine some resorts building 60 foot step downs probably do some math. General rule I've been taught for takeoffs is a rakes length (so about 6') of flat before the end of the takeoff with all the transition below that so you don't get kicked at the top

there's math and physics involved in jump made legit parks whistler,pc,mammoth etc.

I rode up with the park manager at keystone this season. He said they use an excel spreadsheet to calculate all of the dimensions (including angles) for all features. Then I asked him if they measure everything with protractors once the features are built and I think he said yes although my question wasn’t very clear.

Also, he said the default speed for nearly every jump they make is an s-carve. So the length of the inrun is calculated by excel also.

Big guys use math. Especially considering the fact that any proper park is doing earth moving in the summer for their jump pads. The lower down the chain you get for ski hills and their resources for terrain parks the more they wing it. You're 'local' ski hill where the park is run by the one park dude who is the only guy out of highschool and doesn't have a normal pleb job. Sure, (s)he rides park and is... well - available for the job... but (s)he's just winging it - trial and error style. Combine that with the most likely chance that the ski hill isn't going to allot the park with nearly enough cat time to make shit proper. Sometimes with limited resources you just gotta do your best and hope it works.

Hopefully at the smaller ski hills the person in charge of the park is at least a skilled, well rounded park rider and understands the difference between what works and video game shit. As 'they' say: Never build something you won't hit yourself.

All of that being said, there are legal obligations that a ski hill must adhere to in order to be covered insurance wise. If you have a big gap to a down-flat with the top end of the rail exposed and no wood in the gaps of the support bars (and even worse - not labeled, as in S,M,L,XL), you are most likely opening yourself up for a bad time. So with that in mind, even small hills with no real budget for a proper park, there is a right way and a wrong way of setting up features. If you build a step down with a 50' deck and a 5' high wu tang take off, it's not going to take long for someone to fuck themselves up and have serious legal repercussions. This is all coming from a Canadian and it is, for the most part, all opinion. America is weird. A culture that is both extreme in liability and lawsuits on one end, and 'don't tread on me' on the other.... It's either live free or die or I'm gonna sue your ass for disrespecting my safe space. 'MURIKA'!

It's pretty fucking basic maths

Z-JuiceI rode up with the park manager at keystone this season. He said they use an excel spreadsheet to calculate all of the dimensions (including angles) for all features. Then I asked him if they measure everything with protractors once the features are built and I think he said yes although my question wasn’t very clear.

Also, he said the default speed for nearly every jump they make is an s-carve. So the length of the inrun is calculated by excel also.

Anyway that I can get access to this information?

DrailBig guys use math. Especially considering the fact that any proper park is doing earth moving in the summer for their jump pads. The lower down the chain you get for ski hills and their resources for terrain parks the more they wing it. You're 'local' ski hill where the park is run by the one park dude who is the only guy out of highschool and doesn't have a normal pleb job. Sure, (s)he rides park and is... well - available for the job... but (s)he's just winging it - trial and error style. Combine that with the most likely chance that the ski hill isn't going to allot the park with nearly enough cat time to make shit proper. Sometimes with limited resources you just gotta do your best and hope it works.

Hopefully at the smaller ski hills the person in charge of the park is at least a skilled, well rounded park rider and understands the difference between what works and video game shit. As 'they' say: Never build something you won't hit yourself.

All of that being said, there are legal obligations that a ski hill must adhere to in order to be covered insurance wise. If you have a big gap to a down-flat with the top end of the rail exposed and no wood in the gaps of the support bars (and even worse - not labeled, as in S,M,L,XL), you are most likely opening yourself up for a bad time. So with that in mind, even small hills with no real budget for a proper park, there is a right way and a wrong way of setting up features. If you build a step down with a 50' deck and a 5' high wu tang take off, it's not going to take long for someone to fuck themselves up and have serious legal repercussions. This is all coming from a Canadian and it is, for the most part, all opinion. America is weird. A culture that is both extreme in liability and lawsuits on one end, and 'don't tread on me' on the other.... It's either live free or die or I'm gonna sue your ass for disrespecting my safe space. 'MURIKA'!

We don't label features in America. But the parks most places are labeled by size. Actually the canadian feature labelling was inspried by a lawsuit up in the land of the maple leafs.

But yeah, cat time and understanding what the fuck a park looks like is def what it comes down to. Some of the smaller hills have 1 guy grooming the entire hill and the park each night and nobody that understands what a park should look like. Sucks because it can ruin the fun for everyone else.

At least even the jenkiest park now is prbably better than a lot of what was going around in the 90s early 2000s.

oiucheekykuntalright do any parks use physics to estimate the takeoffs and stuff for the jump or do they just eyeball it? i would guess they just eyeball it since the good jumps are often just a medium booter and a small amount of step up.big/pro events like the audi nines must use physics in order to figure out what they can build, any info on that?

also i think that parks should just use dirt for the landing and built the booter out of snow, it would make the jump building way faster

Most resort stuff is eyeballed. Always a plan for the area and relative size, style of jumps and take off. Sometimes even a angle ish for the takeoff or a general idea of how steep.

For bigger stuff and custom builds people run things through computer models and figure out how big, steep, snow, impact, etc.

Im sure some use it in the day to day but not most.

There are always surprises but you can generally look at a jump and know if it will work.

Then somebody sacks up and hits it and you get some feedback. In a jump line its pretty likely there will be at least aome minor tweaking.

Everything's come along way from a jump being blade fulls of snow dumped by the cat and then hand built with a landing that wasnt nearly steep enough.

Honestly the finished product on a lit of jumps thesee days is basically good to go. But when you'r a fussy cunt you make sure it's completely dialed.

As far as earth works. It can be great but it's not for everyone. If you build in the same spots it can save a lot of snow and time but you better be damn sure.

Problems can be everything from $$$ to forest land or being in parks. Also you lose flexibility. So really only useful for the big jumps.

Cardrona NZ has pretty extensive earth works done in the last 5 years. They even have some rail pads. Downside is thats where thigs go, period, upside is theyve had pro jump line and full parks open way before other mtns on low snow years.

Personally with bigger jumps, i never gave a fuck about movement anyway. You care that the jump works. With the medium and smaller jumps you can kind of work them in anywhere and shuffle feature around. With big jumps its more find something that works, and keep doing it.

theabortionatorMost resort stuff is eyeballed. Always a plan for the area and relative size, style of jumps and take off. Sometimes even a angle ish for the takeoff or a general idea of how steep.

For bigger stuff and custom builds people run things through computer models and figure out how big, steep, snow, impact, etc.

Im sure some use it in the day to day but not most.

There are always surprises but you can generally look at a jump and know if it will work.

Then somebody sacks up and hits it and you get some feedback. In a jump line its pretty likely there will be at least aome minor tweaking.

Everything's come along way from a jump being blade fulls of snow dumped by the cat and then hand built with a landing that wasnt nearly steep enough.

Honestly the finished product on a lit of jumps thesee days is basically good to go. But when you'r a fussy cunt you make sure it's completely dialed.

As far as earth works. It can be great but it's not for everyone. If you build in the same spots it can save a lot of snow and time but you better be damn sure.

Problems can be everything from $$$ to forest land or being in parks. Also you lose flexibility. So really only useful for the big jumps.

Cardrona NZ has pretty extensive earth works done in the last 5 years. They even have some rail pads. Downside is thats where thigs go, period, upside is theyve had pro jump line and full parks open way before other mtns on low snow years.

Personally with bigger jumps, i never gave a fuck about movement anyway. You care that the jump works. With the medium and smaller jumps you can kind of work them in anywhere and shuffle feature around. With big jumps its more find something that works, and keep doing it.

thanks man this is what i was looking for

theabortionatorWe don't label features in America. But the parks most places are labeled by size. Actually the canadian feature labelling was inspried by a lawsuit up in the land of the maple leafs.

But yeah, cat time and understanding what the fuck a park looks like is def what it comes down to. Some of the smaller hills have 1 guy grooming the entire hill and the park each night and nobody that understands what a park should look like. Sucks because it can ruin the fun for everyone else.

At least even the jenkiest park now is prbably better than a lot of what was going around in the 90s early 2000s.

I got lucky in the early 2000’s. Blue Mountain, ON being my home ski hill I was spoiled. Any time I’d go to another hill for a competition was always a crap shoot. But at least every ski hill tried to maintain a halfpipe (and sometimes even a quarter pipe!) at the time... even if some were hand carved ditches.

DrailI got lucky in the early 2000’s. Blue Mountain, ON being my home ski hill I was spoiled. Any time I’d go to another hill for a competition was always a crap shoot. But at least every ski hill tried to maintain a halfpipe (and sometimes even a quarter pipe!) at the time... even if some were hand carved ditches.

Hell yeah. I miss everybody having a pipe, even a shitty pipe.

DrailI got lucky in the early 2000’s. Blue Mountain, ON being my home ski hill I was spoiled. Any time I’d go to another hill for a competition was always a crap shoot. But at least every ski hill tried to maintain a halfpipe (and sometimes even a quarter pipe!) at the time... even if some were hand carved ditches.

Was just at blue last month and the pipe is dead. I guess the Badlands double broke down so they scrapped the whole village side setup and moved it to the orchard. Good times though.

theabortionatorHell yeah. I miss everybody having a pipe, even a shitty pipe.

Yeah it seems as though the fun side of pipe skiing has fallen by the wayside and it has become synonymous with high end training and comps. It's really too bad because it's a lot of fun skiing vert (or sub-vert as the mini pipe dictates).

I always built jumps just so that skis/board would be able to track smoothly up the whole takeoff, so a flat ski wouldn't flex at any point on the kicker. I also employed the strategy of short-ish gap, extra long landing, and a teardrop shaped landing. Not extremely scientific, but there's plenty of practical ways to make a good jump.

GKSWas just at blue last month and the pipe is dead. I guess the Badlands double broke down so they scrapped the whole village side setup and moved it to the orchard. Good times though.

Sure? I donno... I haven't been skiing in Ontario for 15 years.

DrailI got lucky in the early 2000’s. Blue Mountain, ON being my home ski hill I was spoiled. Any time I’d go to another hill for a competition was always a crap shoot. But at least every ski hill tried to maintain a halfpipe (and sometimes even a quarter pipe!) at the time... even if some were hand carved ditches.

I heard horror stories from Doug from the early park days at Blue Mountain.

Those Wednesday night park series and the triple challenge were dope as fuck. They had a great half pipe that I got to ride until 2009 before moving back to Quebec. I miss half piping and their XXL park. Their 60' step downs and construction I beam rails 10 feet up were scary, but so satisfying.

doing the math makes it much easier id imagine. IYoud have to accomodate for slope incline and changes in slope incline between jumps, but overall it wouldnt be too hard.

One thing i cant stand is when each jump in a line gets larger or smaller or different than the one before it.
I can live with having the moneybooter bottom jump a little bigger than the ones before it, but i cant stand when each jump in the line gets bigger and bigger and you have to constantly adjust your speed to make the next jump. Its stupid. When every jump is of equal size you know for sure how fast you need to go and you can get into an easy rhythm sending it all day and always being able to feel the right speed for every jump in the park.

Mammoth (at least the last time i was there) had a totally even jump size in both the mid line and the big line. It was like you could completely relax bc you would know exactly how deep you would land on each landing and you could send it as shallow or as deep as you wanted. It was paradise imo.

DolansLebensraumdoing the math makes it much easier id imagine. IYoud have to accomodate for slope incline and changes in slope incline between jumps, but overall it wouldnt be too hard.

One thing i cant stand is when each jump in a line gets larger or smaller or different than the one before it.
I can live with having the moneybooter bottom jump a little bigger than the ones before it, but i cant stand when each jump in the line gets bigger and bigger and you have to constantly adjust your speed to make the next jump. Its stupid. When every jump is of equal size you know for sure how fast you need to go and you can get into an easy rhythm sending it all day and always being able to feel the right speed for every jump in the park.

Mammoth (at least the last time i was there) had a totally even jump size in both the mid line and the big line. It was like you could completely relax bc you would know exactly how deep you would land on each landing and you could send it as shallow or as deep as you wanted. It was paradise imo.

I would argue that it wouldn't matter in a well built park if the jumps get progressively bigger since they would adjust the inrun based on the speed needed for the bigger jump. Also I'm pretty sure there are scientific papers out there specifically on jump construction. Would be cool to read over one and see how much goes into it I'll try to find one

It’s so easy to tell the difference between those winging it and those not.
Snowshoe for instance, completely random , no way maths involved, no way their park employees send big jumps.
Now killi, keystone- they got people doing shit right, all smooth proper jumps that don’t shoot ya str8 at the moon

One time I did all the math to make sure this road gap we were building was going to be safe. Used the iphone app to measure angles, measured distances and speeds and all that. But when we finally finished everything, the inrun was starting to get sticky and only one guy hit the jump. He barely made it. We decided to wait around for the snow to get colder again and a ranger pulled up and she told us we had to knock down the jump because it was illegal. She couldn't come up with the law that said it was illegal as we had not actually put anything on or over the road, but whatever. Was mad lame. But it's fun to actually design jumps now and I do it to stay awake during class sometimes. Haven't built one at all this year though.

**This post was edited on Apr 12th 2021 at 3:04:48pm

Guessing she wasn’t hot? If so ida gotten arrested

ReturnToMonkeyOne time I did all the math to make sure this road gap we were building was going to be safe. Used the iphone app to measure angles, measured distances and speeds and all that. But when we finally finished everything, the inrun was starting to get sticky and only one guy hit the jump. He barely made it. We decided to wait around for the snow to get colder again and a ranger pulled up and she told us we had to knock down the jump because it was illegal. She couldn't come up with the law that said it was illegal as we had not actually put anything on or over the road, but whatever. Was mad lame. But it's fun to actually design jumps now and I do it to stay awake during class sometimes. Haven't built one at all this year though.

**This post was edited on Apr 12th 2021 at 3:04:48pm

SavageBiffGuessing she wasn’t hot? If so ida gotten arrested

Ha! Nah she just threatened us with tickets

Ooh yah we don’t like those, I still would’ve been tempted to pull the Weiner out and ask her if I change things at all

ReturnToMonkeyHa! Nah she just threatened us with tickets

DolansLebensraumdoing the math makes it much easier id imagine. IYoud have to accomodate for slope incline and changes in slope incline between jumps, but overall it wouldnt be too hard.

One thing i cant stand is when each jump in a line gets larger or smaller or different than the one before it.
I can live with having the moneybooter bottom jump a little bigger than the ones before it, but i cant stand when each jump in the line gets bigger and bigger and you have to constantly adjust your speed to make the next jump. Its stupid. When every jump is of equal size you know for sure how fast you need to go and you can get into an easy rhythm sending it all day and always being able to feel the right speed for every jump in the park.

Mammoth (at least the last time i was there) had a totally even jump size in both the mid line and the big line. It was like you could completely relax bc you would know exactly how deep you would land on each landing and you could send it as shallow or as deep as you wanted. It was paradise imo.

It all depends on the slope. The distance doesnt matter as much as the type of jump imo. I mean in regards to what you're saying. The speed depends on the slope and size of the knuckle. If you're gaining speed down the slope the jumps need to get bigger or youll have to speed check a bunch. Also kind of a time tested method for jumplines. I like having 1 2 3 that grow. As long as theyre similar style and flow welll.

QUOTE=14274544:little1337]I would argue that it wouldn't matter in a well built park if the jumps get progressively bigger since they would adjust the inrun based on the speed needed for the bigger jump. Also I'm pretty sure there are scientific papers out there specifically on jump construction. Would be cool to read over one and see how much goes into it I'll try to find one[/QUOTE]

NSAA has some stuff and theres an ASTM system for measuring jumps but thats more for accidents so they can be documented and recreated.

There are programs some companies run for large contest or photoshoot features to run tests on the computer and figure out the angles, compression, speed etc so when they build it it's real close.

SavageBiffIt’s so easy to tell the difference between those winging it and those not.
Snowshoe for instance, completely random , no way maths involved, no way their park employees send big jumps.
Now killi, keystone- they got people doing shit right, all smooth proper jumps that don’t shoot ya str8 at the moon

Idk if he's still there or even working parks but one of the main guys at snowshoe used to build the jumps at carinthia/ mt snow.



‐--------‐--------------

As far as winging it, some places definitely do that, but going by eye isn't necessarily winging it. If you've been building and tweaking large jumps for a decade, a build even with no measurements isn't really winging it. There's a precise look of the angles you're going for. Usually those people will have a dialed jump right away but small tweaks can be needed to perfect it in general or for specific riders and their taste.

Jumps have gotten far more uniform amd that's good but it isn't necessarily ine size fit's all.

Some engineer that doesn't ski isn't going to be able to build as good of a jump as one of those long time operators that's been building big jumps for years. Also the second it goes that route those long time operators are going to walk. Safety is a big concern and these big parks make that a priority but what you guys are calling winging it isn't winging it for the skilled ops in these big parks.


Sometimes there is a specific goal of the distances, especially when a mtn builds a 3 jump line. Agter that it's just tweaking. Jump 1 needs to be a little steep, 2 is two small by 3 feet. 3 is perfect where it is but could be a foot taller same angle.

Snow is ever changing as well this is one of the reasons a lot of mtns stopped posting jump sizes worrying about liability. I don't think it matters as much, at least not right now but i cant blame them.

But basicslly its about getting them dialed so they ride mint and then trying to maintain them as close to the same for as long as you can.

Some mtns have no idea how to build a park. You see some janky ass rail setups, wonky jumps. Some of your ops at whistler, mammoth, etc could roll up and build a fire jump without measuring anything. I know some measure for sure but I feel like some don't, and even if the did, if they skipped it they could build a fire jump.


I'd love how to build some big dawgs eventually but I just don't think I ride hard enough. I don't want to build anything i can't guinea pig or at least hit.

The blade skills to move snow and build correctly and efficiently are super important but that eye for the jump and time spent building and riding them is a legit skill. These people aren't just winging it and seeing what happens. They're master craftsman.

I would trust a guy that hits big jumps and has been building for 10+ years 100% over some engineer that doesn't ski.

theabortionatorIt all depends on the slope. The distance doesnt matter as much as the type of jump imo. I mean in regards to what you're saying. The speed depends on the slope and size of the knuckle. If you're gaining speed down the slope the jumps need to get bigger or youll have to speed check a bunch. Also kind of a time tested method for jumplines. I like having 1 2 3 that grow. As long as theyre similar style and flow welll.

QUOTE=14274544:little1337]I would argue that it wouldn't matter in a well built park if the jumps get progressively bigger since they would adjust the inrun based on the speed needed for the bigger jump. Also I'm pretty sure there are scientific papers out there specifically on jump construction. Would be cool to read over one and see how much goes into it I'll try to find one

NSAA has some stuff and theres an ASTM system for measuring jumps but thats more for accidents so they can be documented and recreated.

There are programs some companies run for large contest or photoshoot features to run tests on the computer and figure out the angles, compression, speed etc so when they build it it's real close.



Idk if he's still there or even working parks but one of the main guys at snowshoe used to build the jumps at carinthia/ mt snow.



‐--------‐--------------

As far as winging it, some places definitely do that, but going by eye isn't necessarily winging it. If you've been building and tweaking large jumps for a decade, a build even with no measurements isn't really winging it. There's a precise look of the angles you're going for. Usually those people will have a dialed jump right away but small tweaks can be needed to perfect it in general or for specific riders and their taste.

Jumps have gotten far more uniform amd that's good but it isn't necessarily ine size fit's all.

Some engineer that doesn't ski isn't going to be able to build as good of a jump as one of those long time operators that's been building big jumps for years. Also the second it goes that route those long time operators are going to walk. Safety is a big concern and these big parks make that a priority but what you guys are calling winging it isn't winging it for the skilled ops in these big parks.


Sometimes there is a specific goal of the distances, especially when a mtn builds a 3 jump line. Agter that it's just tweaking. Jump 1 needs to be a little steep, 2 is two small by 3 feet. 3 is perfect where it is but could be a foot taller same angle.

Snow is ever changing as well this is one of the reasons a lot of mtns stopped posting jump sizes worrying about liability. I don't think it matters as much, at least not right now but i cant blame them.

But basicslly its about getting them dialed so they ride mint and then trying to maintain them as close to the same for as long as you can.

Some mtns have no idea how to build a park. You see some janky ass rail setups, wonky jumps. Some of your ops at whistler, mammoth, etc could roll up and build a fire jump without measuring anything. I know some measure for sure but I feel like some don't, and even if the did, if they skipped it they could build a fire jump.


I'd love how to build some big dawgs eventually but I just don't think I ride hard enough. I don't want to build anything i can't guinea pig or at least hit.

The blade skills to move snow and build correctly and efficiently are super important but that eye for the jump and time spent building and riding them is a legit skill. These people aren't just winging it and seeing what happens. They're master craftsman.

I would trust a guy that hits big jumps and has been building for 10+ years 100% over some engineer that doesn't ski.

How hard is it/what does the path look like for becoming a park designer?

@theabortionator

did not know that, it wouldn’t seem he’s still there or maybe less involved...all the jumps for the past 3 years have had a lotta lip , even the kiddie parks are built like they are all back flip jumps
silvercreeks aight

ReturnToMonkeyHow hard is it/what does the path look like for becoming a park designer?

day crew > cat operator > outlast the other operators building/designing or at least earn the managers trust

any good park manager is going to ask the whole crew for ideas but in order for the park to flow properly they're going to need to sacrifice some stuff for others, unless you go full nerd and design the whole park yourself ahead of time and no one has any better ideas

ReturnToMonkeyHow hard is it/what does the path look like for becoming a park designer?

Stop sleeping, start avoiding sunshine, etc.

But really pretty much what aburger said. Just get a job on day staff somewhere and go from there. Learn how to fix lips, set rails etc. Then get in s cat, even if you have to do a season or two trails(honestly a season on trails is super helpful)

Then just keep learning shit.


I'm really just getting going this is my 5th season in a cat, one year trails in the middle. This is my first season of working at a smaller mtn and getting to do a lot of buildng. There were a ton of ops, some pretty sick ones but still a bunch at big parks i worked in. Got to build the snall jump line, some hips and snow features etc. Never got to set a rail there etc.

Trying to learn more skills build decent shit and enjoying myself.

Butlike anything else it takes time. Even if you're good at day staff stuff you arent going to jump in a cat and be building crisp festures right away. Just learning to run it, how to till, not blade dive etc takes time.

Try and take any opportunity to work on something you've never done, ride with somebody if there's a better op in the parks, ask questions.

SavageBiff@theabortionator

did not know that, it wouldn’t seem he’s still there or maybe less involved...all the jumps for the past 3 years have had a lotta lip , even the kiddie parks are built like they are all back flip jumps
silvercreeks aight

Word I've never ridden there honestly just know like maybe 8 or 9 years ago he went back there.

How long is your season there?

Typically runs nov25-Last week of March, they could easily stay open later most years, I’ve been told that when they try they get screwed bc people stop coming anyway 🤷🏼‍♂️

theabortionatorWord I've never ridden there honestly just know like maybe 8 or 9 years ago he went back there.

How long is your season there?

little1337I would argue that it wouldn't matter in a well built park if the jumps get progressively bigger since they would adjust the inrun based on the speed needed for the bigger jump. Also I'm pretty sure there are scientific papers out there specifically on jump construction. Would be cool to read over one and see how much goes into it I'll try to find one

Its practically impossible to shape a jump line so that a skier can just point their skis and magically have the right speed for each jump, based on inrun steepness, jump size, landing steepness etc. thats not even considering that different skiers will accumulate different speeds based on their size/weight/clothing. Also wind factors will make a difference, and speed of a skis base (sorry, i had to).



so you are starting at an imposiible task then making it even more impossible.

its a million times easier to make each jump require the same speed. Its much easier for a skier to feel out the speed they are carrying and do speed checks to maintain the same speed than it is to have to think “ok fuck, what % faster speed am i gonna need for this next bitch”. Its fucking stupid. Jumps should at least require the same takeoff speed even if they have slightly different dimensions due to the ground structure underneath the snow.

having one speed fits all is just so much easier to deal with. If you have ever hit a symmetrical jump line you will understand.

DolansLebensraumIts practically impossible to shape a jump line so that a skier can just point their skis and magically have the right speed for each jump, based on inrun steepness, jump size, landing steepness etc. thats not even considering that different skiers will accumulate different speeds based on their size/weight/clothing. Also wind factors will make a difference, and speed of a skis base (sorry, i had to).



so you are starting at an imposiible task then making it even more impossible.

its a million times easier to make each jump require the same speed. Its much easier for a skier to feel out the speed they are carrying and do speed checks to maintain the same speed than it is to have to think “ok fuck, what % faster speed am i gonna need for this next bitch”. Its fucking stupid. Jumps should at least require the same takeoff speed even if they have slightly different dimensions due to the ground structure underneath the snow.

having one speed fits all is just so much easier to deal with. If you have ever hit a symmetrical jump line you will understand.

I have hit prog lines and static lines and lemme tell you, it's way easier for me to get the right speed in a prog line. It's also way more fun. It's also nice to have more modest features to maybe get your grab and pop down so you can try a new big trick on the last one. Don't start trying to generalize everything and say something subjective is wrong.