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Playful 50/50 ski with 100-110mm waist

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sashko
Posts: 223 - Karma: 742
Hi guys. Could you reccomend me any playful ski that I can use 50/50 inbounds/touring ski. Waist 100-110 mm. Length 177-184. Weight equal or less than 2kg. Ability to ski switch is a big plus. Ski will be paired with Salomon Shift binding. Boots are Salomon MTN Lab. Skiing area - Europe Alps and Caucasus.

Stix that I skied a lot
Head Collective 105 - very stable. Not so playful because of very stiff tail.
Moment Bibby Pro - nice, stable, quite playful, but not my kind
Armada Arv JJ - good, playful, but not so stable and I prefer a little bit stiffer skis. But really a little
K2 Pettitors - total like, like arv jj but on steroids.

Currently I’m looking into Faction CT 3.0 182 or Line Sick Day 104 179. What is better? May be I missed any other good ski that meets my requirements?

p.s. Unfortunately it's hard to find any on3p, 4frnt, praxis and a lot of indie US brands in my country. need to stick with something that can be found for cheap in europe

**This thread was edited on Mar 28th 2018 at 3:58:31am

**This thread was edited on Mar 28th 2018 at 4:38:00am
Mar 27 2018 8:42AM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1700 - Karma: 11,016
The black crows Atris and the 109er (forgot the name sorry) would be good options to consider
Mar 27 2018 11:42AM
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grinssemann
Posts: 6 - Karma: 316
LibTech - UFO100
floaty, perfect for jibs and lightweight.

**This post was edited on Mar 27th 2018 at 1:16:27pm
Mar 27 2018 1:14PM
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abar.
Posts: 1062 - Karma: 6,889
ON3P Kartel 108 181 is really stable and playful, can ski switch, charges hard, floats in pow, and spins pretty well. I believe ON3P is offering a touring layup when their new line drops in April, but I'm not sure the details.
Mar 27 2018 2:55PM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1627 - Karma: 8,686
I've spent a good bit of time on both skis, and put some comparisons below. In short, the more you're concerned with spinning, skiing switch, and overall playfulness, the more the CT 3.0 makes sense. The SD 104 is a bit more stable at speed, and definitely more directional. Might also be worth checking out the Liberty Origin 106, which is kind of a mix between the two, though it's more soft-snow oriented than both.

CT 3.0:
- very poppy, easy to flex into both tips and tails to jump off stuff
- not as stable in variable snow — it's light, and it feels like it
- prefers centered stance
- skis switch great
- decent carver, but not as comfortable carving tighter / smaller turns compared to SD 104

Sick Day 104
- more directional — you'll get the most out of the ski when driving the font, and its tail is noticeably stiffer than its tips
- still poppy, but not as energetic as CT 3.0
- More stable in variable snow than CT 3.0
- not great for skiing switch (not a twin)
- Carves quite well on soft and / or consistent groomers.
- better at carving a variety of turn shapes than CT 3.0


Keep an eye out for reviews on both these skis on Blister in the coming weeks.
Mar 27 2018 3:57PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4874 - Karma: 17,330
powpatrolThe black crows Atris and the 109er (forgot the name sorry) would be good options to consider


Corvus right? Looks dope. http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/black-crows-corvus-freebird
Mar 27 2018 6:34PM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1700 - Karma: 11,016
mystery3Corvus right? Looks dope. http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/black-crows-corvus-freebird


Yeah that’s the one,did you mean to link the freebird version?
Mar 27 2018 7:21PM
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Non_State_Actor
Posts: 4874 - Karma: 17,330
powpatrolYeah that’s the one,did you mean to link the freebird version?


Both are covered in the review. I didn’t search around too much. Probably not a playful enough ski for OP? But a lot of folks have been discussing charger type skis lately and I've been researching something bigger and more directional than my current ARV 96 so I've been reading a lot.
Mar 27 2018 7:40PM
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Cade2
Posts: 2124 - Karma: 2,707
kartel 108 mabey? or the magnus 102 when it comes out lol
Mar 27 2018 8:57PM
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BoulderAv
Posts: 3 - Karma: 11
Black Crows has multiple skis that fit your needs if you are willing to go on the skinny side of your requirements (Camox 97mm, Daemon 99mm, and Navis 102mm). If you want a wider waist they have a good range of big moutain skis (Atris 108mm, and Corvus 109mm) although they but are probably less playful based upon what friends have told me. Most of Black Crow’s line are skiable switch.

**This post was edited on Mar 28th 2018 at 12:04:55am
Mar 27 2018 11:54PM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1700 - Karma: 11,016
mystery3Both are covered in the review. I didn’t search around too much. Probably not a playful enough ski for OP? But a lot of folks have been discussing charger type skis lately and I've been researching something bigger and more directional than my current ARV 96 so I've been reading a lot.

oh my bad,didn’t scroll far enough.
I agree that the ski might not be playful enough so atris sounds better for OP
Mar 28 2018 3:13AM
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sashko
Posts: 223 - Karma: 742
Thanx a lot for your input guys. Unfortunately it's hard to buy US indie or custom brands (i'm talking about on3p, liberty, kitten factory) in my country. Also it will be very expensive to deliver them because of customs duties. So I need to stick with something available for cheap in europe during end season sale. If I find on3p cheap deal I will try to buy.

Libtech - I wasn't impress at all with magnitraction. I tried some wider UFOs.
On3p kartel - quite heavy
Black crows corvus freebird - very interesting ski, but according to reviews it's a charger ski, that want to ski down, not jump and pop from everything. probably not my kind. this opinion is based only on reviews I've read.
black crows atris - will check that ski

**This post was edited on Mar 28th 2018 at 5:42:52am
Mar 28 2018 5:07AM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1700 - Karma: 11,016
severniyThanx a lot for your input guys. Unfortunately it's hard to buy US indie or custom brands (i'm talking about on3p, liberty, kitten factory) in my country. Also it will be very expensive to deliver them because of customs duties. So I need to stick with something available for cheap in europe during end season sale. If I find on3p cheap deal I will try to buy.

Libtech - I wasn't impress at all with magnitraction. I tried some wider UFOs.
On3p kartel - quite heavy
Black crows corvus freebird - very interesting ski, but according to reviews it's a charger ski, that want to ski down, not jump and pop from everything. probably not my kind. this opinion is based only on reviews I've read.
black crows atris - will check that ski

**This post was edited on Mar 28th 2018 at 5:42:52am

Goodluck and have fun!
Mar 28 2018 11:10AM
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Cade2
Posts: 2124 - Karma: 2,707
severniyThanx a lot for your input guys. Unfortunately it's hard to buy US indie or custom brands (i'm talking about on3p, liberty, kitten factory) in my country. Also it will be very expensive to deliver them because of customs duties. So I need to stick with something available for cheap in europe during end season sale. If I find on3p cheap deal I will try to buy.

Libtech - I wasn't impress at all with magnitraction. I tried some wider UFOs.
On3p kartel - quite heavy
Black crows corvus freebird - very interesting ski, but according to reviews it's a charger ski, that want to ski down, not jump and pop from everything. probably not my kind. this opinion is based only on reviews I've read.
black crows atris - will check that ski

**This post was edited on Mar 28th 2018 at 5:42:52am


Kartels arnt that heavy
Mar 28 2018 8:53PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3102 - Karma: 13,853
I think Line Sakanas could be down your alley if you don't mind going fully directional. From those in this forum that have tried it, I've heard they are stable, turn quickly, float in pow, and are very light despite all that. You will have to wait until this fall to buy them though; not sure what the situation is in regards to demoing.
Mar 28 2018 9:33PM
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sashko
Posts: 223 - Karma: 742
Cade2Kartels arnt that heavy

-650g per pair in comparison to line and faction
Mar 29 2018 6:30AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 950 - Karma: 2,734
The issue of super light skis is that they are great for touring but get bucked around in variable terrain when skiing resorts. Good descriptions of the CT 3.0 and Sick Day above and you will find same on most skis-heavier ones are more stable and lighter ones don’t love crud.

The Armada ARV 116 will be lighter and stiffer next year so you might like it better and the Black Crows Atris is a nice playful ski similar to the ARV 106.

The obvious choice for a good mix of light weight and decent resort performance is the Atomic Backland series which is what the Atomic Switch bindings are being demoed with all the time. Bent Chetler 100 would be the lightweight freestyle version and even the Bent Chetler 120 will be in the 1700gram range next year. All superlight skis that are good at the resort, although again not great through crop like a heavier ski will be. No free lunch I’m afraid.
Mar 29 2018 8:02AM
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Cade2
Posts: 2124 - Karma: 2,707
severniy-650g per pair in comparison to line and faction

If you r worried about the weight of your skis , go to tgr where people actually give a shit
Mar 29 2018 11:35AM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3743 - Karma: 7,771
I don't know if RMUs are hard to get where you're at but I know they sponsor some euro people.

Either way, give the apostle 106 a look, I have the 105s and they're a terrific do everything ski and they're super light for their size. They've also been super durable for park so far
Mar 29 2018 3:29PM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
Greg_KThe issue of super light skis is that they are great for touring but get bucked around in variable terrain when skiing resorts. Good descriptions of the CT 3.0 and Sick Day above and you will find same on most skis-heavier ones are more stable and lighter ones don’t love crud.

The Armada ARV 116 will be lighter and stiffer next year so you might like it better and the Black Crows Atris is a nice playful ski similar to the ARV 106.

The obvious choice for a good mix of light weight and decent resort performance is the Atomic Backland series which is what the Atomic Switch bindings are being demoed with all the time. Bent Chetler 100 would be the lightweight freestyle version and even the Bent Chetler 120 will be in the 1700gram range next year. All superlight skis that are good at the resort, although again not great through crop like a heavier ski will be. No free lunch I’m afraid.


Curious about the Bent 100. The 120 is too wide to quiver of one. Nice deep day ski. Also the backland got changed for next year. What's it like?
Mar 29 2018 4:06PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 950 - Karma: 2,734
ucberzerkeleyCurious about the Bent 100. The 120 is too wide to quiver of one. Nice deep day ski. Also the backland got changed for next year. What's it like?


Backland 107-very light so great for touring but will sacrifice resort performance for that.
One of the few damp but super light resort ski would be the Head Kore 105 but it’s a directional, non twin.
Mar 29 2018 5:57PM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
Greg_KBackland 107-very light so great for touring but will sacrifice resort performance for that.
One of the few damp but super light resort ski would be the Head Kore 105 but it’s a directional, non twin.


You know how light? Seems super interesting. The 109 in 189 was like high 1900s (1970g) according to Blister.
Mar 29 2018 7:05PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 950 - Karma: 2,734
ucberzerkeleyYou know how light? Seems super interesting. The 109 in 189 was like high 1900s (1970g) according to Blister.


1600 grams in a 189 for the 2019 Backland 107. Super light
Mar 29 2018 7:25PM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
Greg_K1600 grams in a 189 for the 2019 Backland 107. Super light


Holy what?! That's black diamond Helio / volkl BMT light. Imagine it is really soft snow biased at that weight. That's a feather
Mar 29 2018 7:38PM
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denvertrash
Posts: 131 - Karma: 210
Mos def check out the on3p kartel 108s, line sir Francis bacon, sego big horn 106s and the Icelantic nomad 105s. I've demoed them all and they were all a lot of fun.
Mar 30 2018 9:41AM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
Good review got posted today on the Sick Day 104.

Personally I can't decide between it at the Raven 190. Guess I don't know myself well enough anymore. Camber used to be life but now I value throwing skis sideways at a moment notice and slarving immediately. Sigh.
Apr 1 2018 1:43AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 950 - Karma: 2,734
ucberzerkeleyGood review got posted today on the Sick Day 104.

Personally I can't decide between it at the Raven 190. Guess I don't know myself well enough anymore. Camber used to be life but now I value throwing skis sideways at a moment notice and slarving immediately. Sigh.


Totally different skis-Sick Day is a fun all mountain ski with average weight( what you want in a 50/50 ski) and the Raven is a very light, total rocker touring ski which will get bucked around on the resort like all other light touring skis will and be mediocre on harder snow.

Any ski with a decent amount of tip/tail rocker would be able to slave on demand but the camber underneath would still offer decent hard snow performance. Most of the skis listed by others in this thread is what I would lean towards-good all mountain skis that aren't heavy but not super light so you still get decent performance on rougher snow in the resort.
Apr 1 2018 1:32PM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
Greg_KTotally different skis-Sick Day is a fun all mountain ski with average weight( what you want in a 50/50 ski) and the Raven is a very light, total rocker touring ski which will get bucked around on the resort like all other light touring skis will and be mediocre on harder snow.

Any ski with a decent amount of tip/tail rocker would be able to slave on demand but the camber underneath would still offer decent hard snow performance. Most of the skis listed by others in this thread is what I would lean towards-good all mountain skis that aren't heavy but not super light so you still get decent performance on rougher snow in the resort.


Agree totally different skis but the 190 Raven weighs more than the 186 Sick Day.
Apr 1 2018 2:48PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 950 - Karma: 2,734
ucberzerkeleyAgree totally different skis but the 190 Raven weighs more than the 186 Sick Day.


The 184cm Raven is 1750g and 186cm Sick Day 104 which is a light all mountain ski is just under 1900g but would feel more solid on uneven terrain because of its profile and damping.

Both are too light for crud busting but their light weight would be good for touring. Still think a ski like Sick Day 104 is more versatile overall.
Apr 1 2018 7:50PM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
Greg_KThe 184cm Raven is 1750g and 186cm Sick Day 104 which is a light all mountain ski is just under 1900g but would feel more solid on uneven terrain because of its profile and damping.

Both are too light for crud busting but their light weight would be good for touring. Still think a ski like Sick Day 104 is more versatile overall.


I'm not the best when it comes to correlating ski shape to performance on snow. I thought that a long turn radius aka very straight ski like the Raven would handle uneven terrain better? What about the SD profile and damping will handle uneven better? Can you teach me?

Crud busting is not one of the reqreuiements heh
Apr 2 2018 1:39AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 950 - Karma: 2,734
ucberzerkeleyI'm not the best when it comes to correlating ski shape to performance on snow. I thought that a long turn radius aka very straight ski like the Raven would handle uneven terrain better? What about the SD profile and damping will handle uneven better? Can you teach me?

Crud busting is not one of the reqreuiements heh


You are correct that having high turning radius and less tip tail taper is better for not “catching” in crud and both skis have very little tip/tail taper. The problem is the high turning radius in the Raven vs the multi radius one in the SD, kinda limits you more to longer/higher speed turns on the Raven while the SD is still stable at high speed but is happy doing shorter turns at slower speeds too. Going through crud is best done while you’re on edge(in a turn) so the SD just gives more flexibility in various conditions to change turn shape.

The rocker profile on the Raven also favors the SD when it comes to harder snow as it has more Camber to bite into it. Steep, icy chutes would be more fun on the SD I think. Lol

SD has a lightweight tip and soft flex up front along with some cap/sidewall mixed construction to better absorb shocks like rough terrain/crud which makes it ski like it’s heavier than it is. Resort skis as a rule have more dampening materials or heavier wood types than touring ones as it adds weight which is not wanted in a touring ski.

Read both reviews on Blister Gear of these 2 skis and you will see how they think the Raven is a touring ski that is better than most touring skis if used on a resort vs the Sick Day 104 which is a lighter weight resort ski that could be used for touring. So, unless you’re doing almost nothing but touring, the SD would be the more versatile choice.
Apr 2 2018 8:32AM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
Greg_KYou are correct that having high turning radius and less tip tail taper is better for not “catching” in crud and both skis have very little tip/tail taper. The problem is the high turning radius in the Raven vs the multi radius one in the SD, kinda limits you more to longer/higher speed turns on the Raven while the SD is still stable at high speed but is happy doing shorter turns at slower speeds too. Going through crud is best done while you’re on edge(in a turn) so the SD just gives more flexibility in various conditions to change turn shape.

The rocker profile on the Raven also favors the SD when it comes to harder snow as it has more Camber to bite into it. Steep, icy chutes would be more fun on the SD I think. Lol

SD has a lightweight tip and soft flex up front along with some cap/sidewall mixed construction to better absorb shocks like rough terrain/crud which makes it ski like it’s heavier than it is. Resort skis as a rule have more dampening materials or heavier wood types than touring ones as it adds weight which is not wanted in a touring ski.

Read both reviews on Blister Gear of these 2 skis and you will see how they think the Raven is a touring ski that is better than most touring skis if used on a resort vs the Sick Day 104 which is a lighter weight resort ski that could be used for touring. So, unless you’re doing almost nothing but touring, the SD would be the more versatile choice.


Raven 190 Length Weight Calculation
1750g / 184cm = 9.51g / cm
9.51g/cm * 190 = 1807g

Ok, so I guess the Raven in 190 (actual 189) will come in a little over 1800. This is consistent with Sick Day having more damping (1850g at 185.5cm).

Having just read the Blister review again, they love the Raven. And while they do emphasize touring first, they really like it as a 50/50 option too. But point taken. Touring first, inbounds second.

I think the Sick Day does make more sense for my situation to be honest. Even though blister views it as inbounds first, touring second, and this ski will see 75% out of bounds, it will also be my ~100-105cm ski for inbounds days as well as slackcountry from the resort.

I've held the 184 Raven and man oh man, is it a feather. A little unnerving. I actually sold it for that reason without skiing. Was praying the 190 would be more confidence inspiring.
Apr 2 2018 11:04AM
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sashko
Posts: 223 - Karma: 742
Guys, what can you say about faction prodigy 3.0? Does it suit my needs? How do it ski in comparison with line sd 104 and faction ct 3.0?
Apr 4 2018 1:52AM
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powderhound901
Posts: 8 - Karma: 20
Waist 100-110 mm. Length 177-184. Weight equal or less than 2kg. Ability to ski switch is a big plus.

I have basically this type of setup but have not mounted my binding yet. My ski is the rossy stz and it has three different mounting suggestions. Is the best compromise between touring speed and going switch simply half way between recommended and center or is there more to it?
Apr 4 2018 2:09AM
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