Why tf are the wood veneer topsheets on custom on3ps so much...

I believe they actually have to hand cut the topsheet out of real wood rather than it just being a printed graphic.

Arnt all of their "custom" topsheets that much? And it's probably because they dont have them just sitting around like the normal topsheet skis so they have to be made to the order. Thats my guess.

because material cost and labor to put actual wood veneer on there correctly.. and 100 isnt that much really for the wood veneer

freeskibum82because material cost and labor to put actual wood veneer on there correctly.. and 100 isnt that much really for the wood veneer

I'd be amazed if enough veneer for a pair of skis cost more than $10-20. If the person putting together the skis is making $30/hour, does it really take them an extra 3 hours per pair of skis? Definitely not. Probably 10-15 minutes more at most, but I suspect it wouldn't really take much more time at all.

It's $100 more because they can make it that and people will buy it, not because it costs them $100 more to make the skis. All about getting that $$.

Armchair ski builder out.

Veneer is cheaper than plastic topsheets but there is more labor involved.

I'm calling eheath

I'm guessing it is because of labor or however much the veneer costs.

Iggyskier is going to shut this thread down any second.

A person has to physically cut out any graphics with a fucking exacto knife....because they are real wood. That person would normally be laying up skis. So the work it takes, and the work it takes away from needs to be taken in to account.

VinnieFI'd be amazed if enough veneer for a pair of skis cost more than $10-20. If the person putting together the skis is making $30/hour, does it really take them an extra 3 hours per pair of skis? Definitely not. Probably 10-15 minutes more at most, but I suspect it wouldn't really take much more time at all.

It's $100 more because they can make it that and people will buy it, not because it costs them $100 more to make the skis. All about getting that $$.

Armchair ski builder out.

I mean they're not gonna sell them at cost. They are in fact a for profit company.

VinnieFI'd be amazed if enough veneer for a pair of skis cost more than $10-20. If the person putting together the skis is making $30/hour, does it really take them an extra 3 hours per pair of skis? Definitely not. Probably 10-15 minutes more at most, but I suspect it wouldn't really take much more time at all.

It's $100 more because they can make it that and people will buy it, not because it costs them $100 more to make the skis. All about getting that $$.

Armchair ski builder out.

No clue why this is being down voted. He's not saying anything about ON3P as a company other than the fact that they are in the business of making money. I see nothing wrong with it. If people want to pay an extra $100 for veneer topsheets that obviously did not cost that much to make then so be it. I just happen to be fine with ON3P's standard graphics, which are all fucking dope as it is.

VinnieFI'd be amazed if enough veneer for a pair of skis cost more than $10-20. If the person putting together the skis is making $30/hour, does it really take them an extra 3 hours per pair of skis? Definitely not. Probably 10-15 minutes more at most, but I suspect it wouldn't really take much more time at all.

It's $100 more because they can make it that and people will buy it, not because it costs them $100 more to make the skis. All about getting that $$.

Armchair ski builder out.

So, $20 for materials plus $30 for an hour of work (considering it interrupts a work flow, this is probably a safe assumption) = $50. Hard goods have a 50 point markup so....$100 for this top sheet doesn't seem like a stretch.

VinnieFI'd be amazed if enough veneer for a pair of skis cost more than $10-20. If the person putting together the skis is making $30/hour, does it really take them an extra 3 hours per pair of skis? Definitely not. Probably 10-15 minutes more at most, but I suspect it wouldn't really take much more time at all.

It's $100 more because they can make it that and people will buy it, not because it costs them $100 more to make the skis. All about getting that $$.

Armchair ski builder out.

I would be amazed if ON3P didn't actually lose money on the veneer.

hemlockjibber8So, $20 for materials plus $30 for an hour of work (considering it interrupts a work flow, this is probably a safe assumption) = $50. Hard goods have a 50 point markup so....$100 for this top sheet doesn't seem like a stretch.

if you really think hard goods have a 50% markup you are crazy. its way higher margins than that. especially factory produced skis.

VinnieFI'd be amazed if enough veneer for a pair of skis cost more than $10-20. If the person putting together the skis is making $30/hour, does it really take them an extra 3 hours per pair of skis? Definitely not. Probably 10-15 minutes more at most, but I suspect it wouldn't really take much more time at all.

It's $100 more because they can make it that and people will buy it, not because it costs them $100 more to make the skis. All about getting that $$.

Armchair ski builder out.

The actual wage of the ski builder is only part of the equation. Other things that go into the price of having a worker perform labor for you include: payroll taxes, cost of space(rent or mortgage to provide a place for that worker to perform labor) utilities to light and heat space, workers compensation insurance(which is probably significant working with hydraulic presses, power tools, etc.,

Unfortunately for us small business owners it's not as simple as wage plus materials equals cost. And I run a very low overhead business.

freeskibum82if you really think hard goods have a 50% markup you are crazy. its way higher margins than that. especially factory produced skis.

This would be a 100% markup for just the top sheet alone so pretty accurate. The ski itself is also marked up on top of that.

Nylon topsheets are wildly expensive now, so wood veneer is actually no more expensive on the raw material end. That said, they are significantly more on the time end. Here are the things that go into a wood veneer that don't go into a standard nylon topsheet.

1) We literally handcut every wood veneer graphic. As you can imagine, using a razor blade to accurately cut a wood veneer is very time consuming. Also, the person who does this is our Production Manager so his time on the floor is valuable to say the least. Every veneer we do costs us, minimum, 1 pair of pressed skis so the math there is not in the veneers favor.
2) Cut pieces of wood veneer are pulled out, stained, and dried overnight.
3) Wood veneer is then reassembled - this means using veneer tape to put the wood veneer back together once it is dried.
4) Veneer adds time during layup to both coat & properly assembled the cassette - normally taking 2 people to ensure the veneer is properly seated in place.
5) Because the veneer needs to be sealed, we skip several steps in process that are then done on the end. Anyone who has ever run a production facility can tell you that it is not ideal to be having to send things back in process as it adds time and kills the economies of scale production affords. So there is added handling time here topsheet sanding, sidewall buffing, and throughout the hand finish process as the normal production sequence doesn't hold.
6) I personally hand seal every wood veneer topsheet. This occurs 3-4 times depending over a 3-4 day period and has to be perfect so that the veneer has good water protection but so that it remains thin and even.
7) Once sealed, we then have to go back in process rebuff the sidewalls, finish buff the veneer, and then the skis finally complete the handfinish process and go out.

Veneer skis are branding & marketing pieces, not money makers. In a pure fiscal sense, they don't make a lot of sense. But they get attention and that helps sell other skis. If you don't value our time to make them, don't order them. It certainly is a lot easier on our end.

iggyskierNylon topsheets are wildly expensive now, so wood veneer is actually no more expensive on the raw material end. That said, they are significantly more on the time end. Here are the things that go into a wood veneer that don't go into a standard nylon topsheet.

1) We literally handcut every wood veneer graphic. As you can imagine, using a razor blade to accurately cut a wood veneer is very time consuming. Also, the person who does this is our Production Manager so his time on the floor is valuable to say the least. Every veneer we do costs us, minimum, 1 pair of pressed skis so the math there is not in the veneers favor.
2) Cut pieces of wood veneer are pulled out, stained, and dried overnight.
3) Wood veneer is then reassembled - this means using veneer tape to put the wood veneer back together once it is dried.
4) Veneer adds time during layup to both coat & properly assembled the cassette - normally taking 2 people to ensure the veneer is properly seated in place.
5) Because the veneer needs to be sealed, we skip several steps in process that are then done on the end. Anyone who has ever run a production facility can tell you that it is not ideal to be having to send things back in process as it adds time and kills the economies of scale production affords. So there is added handling time here topsheet sanding, sidewall buffing, and throughout the hand finish process as the normal production sequence doesn't hold.
6) I personally hand seal every wood veneer topsheet. This occurs 3-4 times depending over a 3-4 day period and has to be perfect so that the veneer has good water protection but so that it remains thin and even.
7) Once sealed, we then have to go back in process rebuff the sidewalls, finish buff the veneer, and then the skis finally complete the handfinish process and go out.

Veneer skis are branding & marketing pieces, not money makers. In a pure fiscal sense, they don't make a lot of sense. But they get attention and that helps sell other skis. If you don't value our time to make them, don't order them. It certainly is a lot easier on our end.

Does the customer get to pick from different wood grains when ordering? Always been curious.

saskskierDoes the customer get to pick from different wood grains when ordering? Always been curious.

We used to give people more options as far as wood types go - but the type of wood has a lot of influence on the ski's flex and characteristics. As such, we've found we get much more consistency using the specific type of wood we use now. If you have a specific design you want or a wood veneer that is darker or lighter, we usually can accommodate it within reason.

I think my next pair of ON3Ps will have the wood veneer finish. Sexiest skis I’ve seen.

casualI think my next pair of ON3Ps will have the wood veneer finish. Sexiest skis I’ve seen.

I've been considering veneer too but think I'm gonna go with the all white custom for my next pair

Didn't know there was graphics in the veneer. That massively changes things.

iggyskierWe used to give people more options as far as wood types go - but the type of wood has a lot of influence on the ski's flex and characteristics. As such, we've found we get much more consistency using the specific type of wood we use now. If you have a specific design you want or a wood veneer that is darker or lighter, we usually can accommodate it within reason.

What is it now? Walnut?

Also what's the go with all the different graphics on top? Can you get those custom or is it just the big ON3P?

eheethWhat is it now? Walnut?

Also what's the go with all the different graphics on top? Can you get those custom or is it just the big ON3P?

Depends on the sexual favors you’re willing to offer.

You guys need a laser engraver saves a lot of time with veneer.