Shop messed up my mount, what do I do?

Honestly, and sorry for being blunt, this is your fault for not marking the ski yourself.

"Dead" is not an agreed upon scientific way to measure anything, and as such "dead center" can mean different things to different people: length center, sidecut center, camber center, etc. Unfortunately they had a different interpretation than you.

How far off is 2.5mm behind length center (I assume you mean this) compared to 2.5cm behind recommended? I'm guessing that it is far enough that a remount will not be that consequential in any way to your ski.

I am a shop tech and I hate when people just ask for "center mount" on a non-symmetrical ski. Like do you want the ski mounted in the middle of the contact area, at the balance point, in the actual measured center of the ski (basically forwards mounting on most pow skis). Most people who bring in skis and ask for "center mount" have no idea what they actually want. If you know where you want the ski mounted you should mark it yourself or at least talk to the person who is actually mounting the ski for you. we can't read minds.

onenerdykidHonestly, and sorry for being blunt, this is your fault for not marking the ski yourself.

"Dead" is not an agreed upon scientific way to measure anything, and as such "dead center" can mean different things to different people: length center, sidecut center, camber center, etc. Unfortunately they had a different interpretation than you.

How far off is 2.5mm behind length center (I assume you mean this) compared to 2.5cm behind recommended? I'm guessing that it is far enough that a remount will not be that consequential in any way to your ski.

chickenI am a shop tech and I hate when people just ask for "center mount" on a non-symmetrical ski. Like do you want the ski mounted in the middle of the contact area, at the balance point, in the actual measured center of the ski (basically forwards mounting on most pow skis). Most people who bring in skis and ask for "center mount" have no idea what they actually want. If you know where you want the ski mounted you should mark it yourself or at least talk to the person who is actually mounting the ski for you. we can't read minds.

Thanks this helps a lot. Although I am aware that I should have marked the mount point, but factory rec is nowhere near any center that I can find, and it doesn’t help that he clearly looked at the rec line and went 2.5 back. My understanding of true center is to measure the ski and draw a line half way, and that every shop I can recommend to anyone would tell you that they don’t trust the mount points based on graphics and that they measure anyway. I’m mostly mad cause I know I fucked up but maybe instead of saying “yep!” As soon as I asked for 2.5 back, they could have asked what the hell I meant. Ugh...

GREEN_BASTARDThanks this helps a lot. Although I am aware that I should have marked the mount point, but factory rec is nowhere near any center that I can find, and it doesn’t help that he clearly looked at the rec line and went 2.5 back. My understanding of true center is to measure the ski and draw a line half way, and that every shop I can recommend to anyone would tell you that they don’t trust the mount points based on graphics and that they measure anyway. I’m mostly mad cause I know I fucked up but maybe instead of saying “yep!” As soon as I asked for 2.5 back, they could have asked what the hell I meant. Ugh...

The good news is that your ski isn't fucked and it will ride exactly how you want it to once the bindings are remounted. Just chalk it up to a learning experience.

chickenI am a shop tech and I hate when people just ask for "center mount" on a non-symmetrical ski. Like do you want the ski mounted in the middle of the contact area, at the balance point, in the actual measured center of the ski (basically forwards mounting on most pow skis). Most people who bring in skis and ask for "center mount" have no idea what they actually want. If you know where you want the ski mounted you should mark it yourself or at least talk to the person who is actually mounting the ski for you. we can't read minds.

I agree with you that people asking for center mounts on skis all the time is stupid, but I also understand what OP is saying. Correct me if I'm wrong, but recommended on these skis is - 5cm from center of the ski (the center of the whole length). So - 2.5 is halfway between center mount and recommended. Unlike other Armada skis, the zero doesn't have a secondary mounting point closer to center. This is one of those instances where miscommunication occurred. The tech should have stepped back and asked himself, "does this seem right?" And perhaps ask OP if he really wanted it that far back. Although maybe he thought he wanted it further back for more lift. Should OP have marked it? Probably not. Should he have communicated clearer? Yes or no. What does the carbon copy sheet say? If it's vague on there, OP, you should have called. If it's clear on the sheet, get a refund and have them redrill.

What did we learn today? Mount your skis at recommended or risk an error.

Chicken, if you're really that confused about intentions when someone asks for center mount, then you should definitely be calling the number listed on their work order and asking for clarification. Will save a headache down the road.

IsitWinterYet17This is one of those instances where miscommunication occurred. The tech should have stepped back and asked himself, "does this seem right?" And perhaps ask OP if he really wanted it that far back. Although maybe he thought he wanted it further back for more lift. Should OP have marked it? Probably not. Should he have communicated clearer? Yes or no. What does the carbon copy sheet say? If it's vague on there, OP, you should have called. If it's clear on the sheet, get a refund and have them redrill.

What did we learn today? Mount your skis at recommended or risk an error.

If the OP did say "dead center" and the shop tech wrote down "dead center" it still leaves it open to interpretation as to what that actually means. Or even "true center". Both of these adjectives are not real things- they are metaphors. And as metaphors they are open to interpretation, and this is where the problem (most likely) occurred. Furthermore, the tech might have been 100% confident in his understanding of the situation, and as such would not ever feel the need to call for clarification. This is the problem with misinterpretation, rather than confusion. If the shop tech was confused, then he definitely should have called and asked for clarification.

The real lesson here is not mount your skis at recommended or risk an error- there are plenty of skis that I don't like at recommended and I'm certainly not going to ski them there. The real lesson here is mark on the ski where you wanted it mounted. Then there is no room for misinterpretation. If the binding is not mounted where you want it, then it is 100% the shop's fault, without any question.

IsitWinterYet17I agree with you that people asking for center mounts on skis all the time is stupid, but I also understand what OP is saying. Correct me if I'm wrong, but recommended on these skis is - 5cm from center of the ski (the center of the whole length). So - 2.5 is halfway between center mount and recommended. Unlike other Armada skis, the zero doesn't have a secondary mounting point closer to center. This is one of those instances where miscommunication occurred. The tech should have stepped back and asked himself, "does this seem right?" And perhaps ask OP if he really wanted it that far back. Although maybe he thought he wanted it further back for more lift. Should OP have marked it? Probably not. Should he have communicated clearer? Yes or no. What does the carbon copy sheet say? If it's vague on there, OP, you should have called. If it's clear on the sheet, get a refund and have them redrill.

What did we learn today? Mount your skis at recommended or risk an error.

Chicken, if you're really that confused about intentions when someone asks for center mount, then you should definitely be calling the number listed on their work order and asking for clarification. Will save a headache down the road.

Yeah the shop emailed my back apologizing and even offered me brand new ON3P's... They did tell the tech 2.5 behind rec and not center. IMO center should mean the point measured exactly between the tip and tail unless specified otherwise, but I guess that's not how it works. I'm gonna take the remount cause they offered me a free pair of skins with it.

arrogant techs if someone comes in saying "center mount" don't be stupid and just mount them in the true center.

keithnollarrogant techs if someone comes in saying "center mount" don't be stupid and just mount them in the true center.

Not all people mean the same thing when they say "center mount". I personally don't give a shit where the ski is mounted as long as it's where the customer wants it. If I'm unsure I call and ask. most of the time when I call them they have no idea where they actually want it mounted and they just said "center", so I usually just end up putting them on the recommended line.

keithnollarrogant techs if someone comes in saying "center mount" don't be stupid and just mount them in the true center.

But this is exactly the problem. Shops mount alpine skis, tele skis, and XC skis. "True" center for each of these is often different. For example, length center on XC skis doesn't matter- balance center matters. So to an XC skier, "true" center is balance center. For you, true center is most likely length center. "True" doesn't denote anything specific and is open to interpretation. If you want to make sure you are correctly understood, you need to use more descriptive and clearer terminology.

Length center
Sidecut center
Camber center
Balance center

All of these centers are different and mounting the same ski at any of these points can be awesome or absolutely horrible. And ultimately, if you want to avoid all possible misinterpretation and confusion, mark the topsheet yourself.

i would respectfully disagree with you onenerdykid, in spite of never having worked as a shop rat myself.

In my line of work - when giving a task to somebody else (especially if being very precise is key), it is customary for the person who gets the task to repeat back in his/her own words how he/she has interpreted the task and how he/she will solve it. It is then for the person who gives the task to ok it or correct what is said back until there is a mutual understanding of both the task and how it is to be solved. This is why one cannot simply repeat back what was said, but have to rephrase it to show that one understands the task - here simply done by showing where the bindings will mounted. Doing this should be considered a best practice and something i would recommend that shops/businesses do to avoid misunderstandings. So, yeah, people could and perhaps should mark where they want their skis mounted, but that should be in addition to and not instead of the aforementioned process imo.

My experience in getting skis mounted is limited, but if i handed in a pair of skis to be mounted, the tech repeated back what i said to him/her and clearly communicated "i understand what you want", and then still managed to misinterpret where i wanted them mounted, i would have been absolutely livid if the shops first reply was how you formulated it above ( paraphrased yes: "sorry, you should have marked the skis, so your bad" ) when i went in to collect my skis. Mistakes do happen though, and more often than not i am sure a solution could have been reached after the fact. If that solution was that i would have to pony up more cash and take the full blame, i would been extremely hesitant to support that shop again.

Other than that, i am 100% aboard with you - communication is key :) I am also glad that the issue got resolved.

not trying to be a huge Jerry here, but what kind of a difference does different mounts create. It sounds like its a huge deal that they were 2.5cm off but is it really that much. All my skis I got have been my brothers or friends so I have never had to worry about it because they were already mounted.

kid-kapowMy experience in getting skis mounted is limited, but if i handed in a pair of skis to be mounted, the tech repeated back what i said to him/her and clearly communicated "i understand what you want", and then still managed to misinterpret where i wanted them mounted, i would have been absolutely livid if the shops first reply was how you formulated it above ( paraphrased yes: "sorry, you should have marked the skis, so your bad" ) when i went in to collect my skis. Mistakes do happen though, and more often than not i am sure a solution could have been reached after the fact. If that solution was that i would have to pony up more cash and take the full blame, i would been extremely hesitant to support that shop again.

Now, I wasn't at all suggesting that a shop should respond that way- I just think it's the reality of the situation. If people generally get into the habit of assuming the other person fully understands their wishes, then they have to accept that there is a very real chance that things will not turn out as they hoped. Never assume that someone else understands your slang or your unique vocabulary. I have the same problem in my job with multiple second languages floating around and I've made huge mistakes before. When it comes to the OP's example, if you are not mounting your own skis (which I fully understand why people don't) then you as an active agent in the scenario need to ensure that your wishes are fully understood. And the easiest way to achieve that is to mark the mounting point on the ski.

Moreover, I totally agree with your other point that communication is key and that it's ALWAYS a super good idea for the tech to reply back "Is this what you meant?". No question. It goes along with never assuming that you understand the other person.

It sounds like you got screwed especially if they offered you new skis / skins.

A shop tech should be experienced enough to know what true centre means on a pair of pow skis compared to a pair of XC skis.

Had 3 skis mounted in the last 2 years and every time I say something along the lines of “I want the bindings mounted 2cms behind true centre, I don’t trust the top sheet graphics so please measure for true centre and I want it 2cms behind that.” If the shop then proceeded to fuck that up I would say it is 110% their fault and I’d be asking them to buy me a new set of skis. Especially when they charge 60 bucks plus tax for the mount in the first place.

Although all of that’s a bit void if it gets lost in translation when saying it in Norwegian. If I was somewhere that wasn’t primarily English speaking getting a mount, I’d probably be a bit more careful.

**This post was edited on Jan 23rd 2018 at 1:24:45pm

Chimpster37It sounds like you got screwed especially if they offered you new skis / skins.

A shop tech should be experienced enough to know what true centre means on a pair of pow skis compared to a pair of XC skis.

Had 3 skis mounted in the last 2 years and every time I say something along the lines of “I want the bindings mounted 2cms behind true centre, I don’t trust the top sheet graphics so please measure for true centre and I want it 2cms behind that.” If the shop then proceeded to fuck that up I would say it is 110% their fault and I’d be asking them to buy me a new set of skis. Especially when they charge 60 bucks plus tax for the mount in the first place.

Yeah thing is, I had them mounted with quiver killers, and I may actually have some use for the further back mount for extra deep days. Definitely would have been more pissed if they just plugged them.

onenerdykidAs usual, makes total sense and is very coherent

my paraphrasing there on the quote - i see that the me being in disagreement with you or the other shop guy above was off, so sorry if i misrepresented what you said. :)

man, it sounds like the op is better off than had the shop not screwed up ;)

(and to follow up on the other poster above - i also do not see the big issue, i plug skis and remount them with other bindings all the time - though, in the time to come i will rather go down the quiver killer route to maintain the option of switching back and forth!)

kid-kapowi would respectfully disagree with you onenerdykid, in spite of never having worked as a shop rat myself.

In my line of work - when giving a task to somebody else (especially if being very precise is key), it is customary for the person who gets the task to repeat back in his/her own words how he/she has interpreted the task and how he/she will solve it. It is then for the person who gives the task to ok it or correct what is said back until there is a mutual understanding of both the task and how it is to be solved. This is why one cannot simply repeat back what was said, but have to rephrase it to show that one understands the task - here simply done by showing where the bindings will mounted. Doing this should be considered a best practice and something i would recommend that shops/businesses do to avoid misunderstandings. So, yeah, people could and perhaps should mark where they want their skis mounted, but that should be in addition to and not instead of the aforementioned process imo.

My experience in getting skis mounted is limited, but if i handed in a pair of skis to be mounted, the tech repeated back what i said to him/her and clearly communicated "i understand what you want", and then still managed to misinterpret where i wanted them mounted, i would have been absolutely livid if the shops first reply was how you formulated it above ( paraphrased yes: "sorry, you should have marked the skis, so your bad" ) when i went in to collect my skis. Mistakes do happen though, and more often than not i am sure a solution could have been reached after the fact. If that solution was that i would have to pony up more cash and take the full blame, i would been extremely hesitant to support that shop again.

Other than that, i am 100% aboard with you - communication is key :) I am also glad that the issue got resolved.

Hooray for closed loop communication!

Anytime there is an allowance for a miscommunication to happen between the customer and the person actually mounting the skis, errors can and will happen like this. As others have said, the best case scenario would have been marking on the skis the area you wanted for boot center and speaking with the actual tech who is mounting the bindings about putting the boot center on your measured lines.

That being said, any good shop should have gotten out tape(if the customer didn't already) and mark off your desired boot center marks when talking with the customer and writing up the work order so there is no confusion between the customer, work order writer, shop manager and the tech actually mounting them. This is what all the shops I go to do with any binding mount. There as so many variables to "center" on skis that it can never be assumed, so it's up to the shop's work order writer to figure out what the customer actually wants and then clearly mark it on the ski for the actual binding installer.
I've had techs phone me even when I marked the lines in tape to reconfirm mounting areas that were not on factory lines just to make sure before drilling if I didn't speak with the tech directly when I dropped off my skis. A good tech would even double check and re-measure the customer's marks to make sure they are even between the 2 skis.

Your skis are mounted 5cm back from your desired location so I doubt the plugged holes would be hidden completely by the binding when it's moved back to the position you wanted. You can usually mount 3 plus times on a ski if properly plugged so it's really just cosmetic but you'll have to decide if you could live with it or not. I've sold lots of skis with multiple mounts without issue but prices reflect those mounts.

Greg_KYour skis are mounted 5cm back from your desired location so I doubt the plugged holes would be hidden completely by the binding when it's moved back to the position you wanted. You can usually mount 3 plus times on a ski if properly plugged so it's really just cosmetic but you'll have to decide if you could live with it or not. I've sold lots of skis with multiple mounts without issue but prices reflect those mounts.

Theyre quiver killered so I doubt that would be a problem

Speaking as a shop tech, ya I would of done what you ended up with. mark the line yourself or be specific and talk with the tech to be sure they know what you want. take the ski back and get it remounted, they will likly give you a break on paying for it if you exsplain your issue.

keithnollarrogant techs if someone comes in saying "center mount" don't be stupid and just mount them in the true center.

When I write up mounts I ask what they mean by center and every person I've encountered this season has meant true center. Whether they were asking for a center mount or x cm back from center, every person has meant true center. I ask anyway because I like to ensure people's skis won't be mounted incorrectly, but why the hell would someone call a recommended line "center"? That sounds retarded to me. The freaking middle of the ski is the center and the recommended line is the recommended line. The recommended line isn't the damn center.