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Official: Atomic & Salomon Shift 13 MNC Binding Thread

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onenerdykid
Posts: 6747 - Karma: 11,771
Hey NS,

I've gotten a few requests to make a Shift binding thread, similar to the Hawx Ultra XTD thread, where you can dump all of your questions and I will do my best to answer them.

I'll skip a story intro as that's already been beaten to death across the interwebz, but I'll throw some basic stats down for reference.

DIN range: 6 - 13

Boot norms (for skiing):
Alpine ISO 5355
Touring ISO 9523 (Full Rubber, WTR, Grip Walk)
Not compatible with non-norm boots (Atomic Backland, Salomon X-Alp, Dynafit TLT 7, Scarpa F1, etc.)

Elastic Travel (toe):
Shift - 47mm
STH2 - 52mm
Warden - 30mm
Marker Kingpin - 3mm
Dynafit Radical ST 2.0 - 3mm

Power Transmission - toe MX (daN/mm):
Shift - 6
Warden 13 - 6
Marker Baron - 5
Marker Griffon - 5.5

Length Adjustment (heel tray) - 30mm

Stand Height:
Toe (alpine boot) - maximum 28mm
Toe (touring boot) - minimum 20mm
Can be adjusted anywhere within that range via adjustable AFD.
Heel - 29mm

Climbing Heights - 2° (no aide), 10° (with aide)

Brakes: 90mm, 100mm, 110mm, 120mm

Crampons: 100mm, 120mm

Weights (pair):
Shift - 1732g (with 90mm brakes & screws)
Warden 13 - 2260g
Marker Griffon - 1910g
Marker Baron - 2450g
Marker Kingpin - 1549g (from Blister)
Dynafit Radical FT 2.0 - 1305g (from Blister)

**This thread was edited on Jan 3rd 2018 at 8:07:17am

**This thread was edited on Jan 3rd 2018 at 8:08:23am
8 years ago
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cydwhit
Posts: 5079 - Karma: 43,074
GOBThanks for the reply!

Did some more experimenting this morning.

1. Issue is not related to the toe height at all, the boot is way above the sliding afd when in walk mode.

2. with no boot in the binding, pulling the toe lever into walk mode lock (vertical) is very easy.

3. I was able to get the toe to lock in walk mode with the boot in the pins after *really* pulling hard on the lever to bring it up. I had to loop my finger into the hole in the toe lever to get enough force. No way I could do it with a pole in the field.

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure the tech fittings on the hawx are dynafit certified ones, so that shouldn't be the issue.




In my Hawx Ultra XTD they work perfectly. But when I use them with my inbounds Hawx with CAST inserts it definitly takes more force to pull that lever up. Not as much as you're talking about, but a little more.

But no matter what boot I'm using it takes more force than I could ever exert with a pole, I always have to reach down and manually lock the toe. But that's common to every tech binding I've ever used.

Sorry, wish I was some help, that's a weird issue.
7 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
GOBThanks for the reply!

Did some more experimenting this morning.

1. Issue is not related to the toe height at all, the boot is way above the sliding afd when in walk mode.

2. with no boot in the binding, pulling the toe lever into walk mode lock (vertical) is very easy.

3. I was able to get the toe to lock in walk mode with the boot in the pins after *really* pulling hard on the lever to bring it up. I had to loop my finger into the hole in the toe lever to get enough force. No way I could do it with a pole in the field.

Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure the tech fittings on the hawx are dynafit certified ones, so that shouldn't be the issue.


Yeah me too - was going to pop in here with the exact same question. Just got mine back from mounting in the shop and was playing around with it. Couldn’t pull the lever all the way up with the boot in but could lock it easily with the boot out.

Dalbello Lupo ax120 boots as a reference.
7 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
KevskiYeah me too - was going to pop in here with the exact same question. Just got mine back from mounting in the shop and was playing around with it. Couldn’t pull the lever all the way up with the boot in but could lock it easily with the boot out.

Dalbello Lupo ax120 boots as a reference.


Turns out I was just being a chump. Jamming a finger in the lever I could get it to where it needed to be without too much sweat.
7 years ago
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 634
Fyi ive used Hawx, Lupo, ZeroG and Vulcan in Shift without problem for toe lock and being able to pull up. Hope whatever happened it gets
resolved
7 years ago
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Bread.
Posts: 769 - Karma: 540
fair warning, the shop i work at has seen now 4 of these bindings come in not being able to get the toe piece into walk mode. Diagnosis at this point is that the binding is getting frozen up even at very low temps (-5 to -1). If you do have this binding make sure you bring them indoors at night at let them get cold before you start switching from apline to tour mode.
7 years ago
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,483
Bread.fair warning, the shop i work at has seen now 4 of these bindings come in not being able to get the toe piece into walk mode. Diagnosis at this point is that the binding is getting frozen up even at very low temps (-5 to -1). If you do have this binding make sure you bring them indoors at night at let them get cold before you start switching from apline to tour mode.


Would dousing the mechanism with wd40 be frowned upon? Used to have to spray it in the locks of my old truck so they wouldn’t freeze up, it repels water and is a decent lubricant.
7 years ago
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Bread.
Posts: 769 - Karma: 540
Rum_HamWould dousing the mechanism with wd40 be frowned upon? Used to have to spray it in the locks of my old truck so they wouldn’t freeze up, it repels water and is a decent lubricant.


we have been lubing them up pretty good and that seems to help a bit don't know how well wd would perform though. Maybe something a bit thicker would be better. Ultimately the best solution we have found at this point has been just to keep them warm. We haven't had any seriously cold conditions in a while so need to wait and see how they cope in -10 and below.
7 years ago
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,483
Bread.we have been lubing them up pretty good and that seems to help a bit don't know how well wd would perform though. Maybe something a bit thicker would be better. Ultimately the best solution we have found at this point has been just to keep them warm. We haven't had any seriously cold conditions in a while so need to wait and see how they cope in -10 and below.


It works really well at getting water out, wd does stand for water dispersant. Staying power isn’t great though
7 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
One more question on the AFD: I noticed a bit of vertical wiggle (which I swear was brought up in here but I couldn't find the post) and brought it up at the shop. I was passed along a message from the tech saying there should be around a credit card's gap between the plate and the rubber gripwalk sole when in downhill mode. Is this to account for the ski flexing or something? Is this how everyone else has been setting/riding them? I would have thought it would be best to just touch the sole.
7 years ago
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profa_212
Posts: 9230 - Karma: 40,648
KevskiOne more question on the AFD: I noticed a bit of vertical wiggle (which I swear was brought up in here but I couldn't find the post) and brought it up at the shop. I was passed along a message from the tech saying there should be around a credit card's gap between the plate and the rubber gripwalk sole when in downhill mode. Is this to account for the ski flexing or something? Is this how everyone else has been setting/riding them? I would have thought it would be best to just touch the sole.

I've heard a piece of paper should juuuust be able to be slid out between the afd and boot. So a really small space between
7 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
Profahoben_212I've heard a piece of paper should juuuust be able to be slid out between the afd and boot. So a really small space between


Sweet, thanks man. I've realized that when I just step into the bindings it's good since my weight is on it, but if I lean back as if to pop the boot goes up a good couple mm. Did some further digging and found this article from Salomon which looks to me as illustrating this "problem" as the ideal condition. When pushed back my boot creates the same gap as in the picture - significantly more than the paper thickness you mentioned or even the card that the tech told me.
Article here: https://issuu.com/salomonnz/docs/salomon_tm_alp_wtr2019_300dpi

I'm a bit confused and don't want to fuck up my knees by riding in the wrong setting (which seems like it could be either at my current level of understanding). Should I be adjusting the plate up or leaving it be?
7 years ago
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Bread.
Posts: 769 - Karma: 540
KevskiOne more question on the AFD: I noticed a bit of vertical wiggle (which I swear was brought up in here but I couldn't find the post) and brought it up at the shop. I was passed along a message from the tech saying there should be around a credit card's gap between the plate and the rubber gripwalk sole when in downhill mode. Is this to account for the ski flexing or something? Is this how everyone else has been setting/riding them? I would have thought it would be best to just touch the sole.


Credit card is too thick, try a piece of thick paper. You should be able to get a piece of paper in there with a little bit of friction, this is to ensure that you don't have to much down pressure on your toe slider, with the little gap it helps the toe deploy better and safer.
7 years ago
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,440
Bread.Credit card is too thick, try a piece of thick paper.


Not "thick". The bindings' mounting manual that comes in the box has an area you're supposed to cut out and use (after folding in two) to measure the AFD.
7 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
Thanks guys! I’ll use a pamphlet-thick piece of paper. Just reread that online manual and it says aim for .5mm so definitely nice and thin.
7 years ago
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postal_slime
Posts: 153 - Karma: 296
yup to all above. just demo-ed tons of boots with a shop and adjusted each to my shift binding. they used a piece of plastic around the thickness of a cheap tupperware for adjusting AFD height.
i have 100 mm brakes that i mounted on some icelantic nomad 105s. the 100mm is too small, it gets caught on the ski and doesn't deploy most of the time. I'm not tripping about it but would be interested in a swap or something.
seems that the 100mm brake is working on most wider skis in this range so just an fyi with the nomads or similar skis with fat tips/tails
7 years ago
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24730 - Karma: 30,008
For AFD's I've almost always used a business card, or one of the salomon AFD dooblydoos that are about as thick, and that's always done the trick. Adjusted countless bindings in this fashion.
7 years ago
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,440
Finally getting my Shift mounted as I'm writing this. Excited to finally test them!
7 years ago
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cydwhit
Posts: 5079 - Karma: 43,074
postal_slimeyup to all above. just demo-ed tons of boots with a shop and adjusted each to my shift binding. they used a piece of plastic around the thickness of a cheap tupperware for adjusting AFD height.
i have 100 mm brakes that i mounted on some icelantic nomad 105s. the 100mm is too small, it gets caught on the ski and doesn't deploy most of the time. I'm not tripping about it but would be interested in a swap or something.
seems that the 100mm brake is working on most wider skis in this range so just an fyi with the nomads or similar skis with fat tips/tails


Ah, word.

Might be worth throwing a ruler on those Nomads. The 105 Lite that I reviewed in a 191 was actually 112 mm at the waist haha. Pretty sure some Icelantics get wider as they get longer, but they don't state that anywhere.
7 years ago
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Sklar
Posts: 8865 - Karma: 31,618
When setting the toe height on the shifts, you need to pull up on the boot to really check. If this wasn't done, or if it wasn't pulled up all the way, you might end up with a gap and some wiggle. it happened to me when I mounted my own.
7 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
postal_slimei have 100 mm brakes that i mounted on some icelantic nomad 105s. the 100mm is too small, it gets caught on the ski and doesn't deploy most of the time. I'm not tripping about it but would be interested in a swap or something.
seems that the 100mm brake is working on most wider skis in this range so just an fyi with the nomads or similar skis with fat tips/tails


Having the same issue on my K108s. Swapped out from 110 to 100 at the shop based on some people’s accounts but it catches like half the time. Might just shave off a mm or two off the inside plastic to get it more reliable.
7 years ago
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Kbob94
Posts: 1319 - Karma: 8,621
KevskiHaving the same issue on my K108s. Swapped out from 110 to 100 at the shop based on some people’s accounts but it catches like half the time. Might just shave off a mm or two off the inside plastic to get it more reliable.


That’s interesting you say that. I’m running my shifts with a 110 brakes on a 116 ski and they clear very nicely.
7 years ago
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,440
Finally had my Shifts mounted! (Ordered in April...) Can't wait to try them.
7 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
Kbob94That’s interesting you say that. I’m running my shifts with a 110 brakes on a 116 ski and they clear very nicely.


Yeah I wonder if it has something to do with different boot sizes/bsl pushing the brake location back to a wider part of the ski? Or if there are minor inconsistencies in the brake plastic?
Either way I seem to be in the minority with brakes that actually don’t run much bigger than advertised.
7 years ago
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Kbob94
Posts: 1319 - Karma: 8,621
KevskiYeah I wonder if it has something to do with different boot sizes/bsl pushing the brake location back to a wider part of the ski? Or if there are minor inconsistencies in the brake plastic?
Either way I seem to be in the minority with brakes that actually don’t run much bigger than advertised.


Yeah that could definitely be the case. I run a 28.5 boot so my bsl is 326 so not small. I think unfortunately you might have gotten a inconsistent pair or something. It is first year run of these so I’m not surprised if there’s little things like that.
7 years ago
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,440
I finally had my first day skiing the Shifts, and I'm really amazed by their on piste performances. I'm glad everything I've read was actually true, and I can't wait to test them going uphill.
6 years ago
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Turnfarmer
Posts: 63 - Karma: 80
Hey Matt,
Thanks for all your great input here.
If I feel much better balance in an alpine sole with the binding toes even with the heel (0 delta,) Do you know how much I would need to shim the Shifts to get the same feel with an Ultra Xtd?
It seems like about 8mm to me. But since I need to cut some screws down to fit, which is somewhat onerous, I'd love to hear your thoughts before I do that.
6 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6747 - Karma: 11,771
TurnfarmerHey Matt,
Thanks for all your great input here.
If I feel much better balance in an alpine sole with the binding toes even with the heel (0 delta,) Do you know how much I would need to shim the Shifts to get the same feel with an Ultra Xtd?
It seems like about 8mm to me. But since I need to cut some screws down to fit, which is somewhat onerous, I'd love to hear your thoughts before I do that.


What are your alpine boots that you are comparing to the XTDs?

I haven't honestly experimented with shimming toes on Shifts yet, so I would just be guessing if I answered you. But the ramp angle of the Ultra XTD is determined when the boot sits on a table, not in a binding (unlike GripWalk). So, if you did shim the toe up (which makes sense hypothetically), you just need to be careful that you don't cause a problem at the heel of the binding. This is the part I am unsure about...
6 years ago
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Jamartini
Posts: 408 - Karma: 1,663
any rumors when they are going to be back in stock on the salomon site?
6 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6747 - Karma: 11,771
Jamartiniany rumors when they are going to be back in stock on the salomon site?


If you are referring to employee shop purchases, just speak with your rep and/or call customer service.
6 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
First day on em in the resort was a success. Didn’t eject while skiing but didn’t fall or send anything big. Also new skis so my attention was mostly elsewhere.

Two issues:
- AFD plates dropped throughout the day to the point that my boots clicked up and down while I turned. Probably ~2mm.
- Went for a silly nosepress waiting at the top of the lift first run and double ejected at DIN of 8. Is this to be expected? Kinda scared to try any nollies or butters seeing how easily it released.
6 years ago
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postal_slime
Posts: 153 - Karma: 296
I bought wider brakes for my pair.
Have 100mm brakes to sell if anyone needs them. PM me.
6 years ago
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,483
KevskiFirst day on em in the resort was a success. Didn’t eject while skiing but didn’t fall or send anything big. Also new skis so my attention was mostly elsewhere.

Two issues:
- AFD plates dropped throughout the day to the point that my boots clicked up and down while I turned. Probably ~2mm.
- Went for a silly nosepress waiting at the top of the lift first run and double ejected at DIN of 8. Is this to be expected? Kinda scared to try any nollies or butters seeing how easily it released.


I have that heel I ssue with any binding that’s not pivots, you just gotta crank the dins a lil more at your own risk.

**This post was edited on Jan 16th 2019 at 11:24:07am
6 years ago
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Jamartini
Posts: 408 - Karma: 1,663
onenerdykidIf you are referring to employee shop purchases, just speak with your rep and/or call customer service.


"out of stock until next season" - customer service

guess no more pro deals for a bit lol
6 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
Had my first day touring on them for a bit today. No issues to speak of - just seamless fun. Pin levers seemed easier to lock in than when I tested them at home, and no issues with brakes releasing. Awesome finally having pins on the uphill, and like I've already experienced on the downhill I don't even think about them any differently than a normal alpine binding.

Adjusted the DIN half a point and seems to be closer to the sweet spot - still ejected in a situation I wanted to and no longer prereleasing when I don't. And the AFD seems to be staying put since I adjusted it per Cody Townsend's comment in that TGR thread.

Stoked!
6 years ago
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postal_slime
Posts: 153 - Karma: 296
KevskiAnd the AFD seems to be staying put since I adjusted it per Cody Townsend's comment in that TGR thread.

What exactly is the suggestion Cody made? Sorry haven’t sorted through everything over there quite yet.
6 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
postal_slimeWhat exactly is the suggestion Cody made? Sorry haven’t sorted through everything over there quite yet.


I can’t recall exactly but it was essentially to back the afd up then raise it all the way to the boot and make sure to finish with the screw turning in the raising direction. That there is some sort of memory in the mechanism that sounded like it doesn’t respond well to micro adjustments backwards at the end.
Probably worth a skim through the thread though before making adjustments yourself. Lots of people talking about this issue and how to fix it.
6 years ago
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 634
KevskiI can’t recall exactly but it was essentially to back the afd up then raise it all the way to the boot and make sure to finish with the screw turning in the raising direction. That there is some sort of memory in the mechanism that sounded like it doesn’t respond well to micro adjustments backwards at the end.
Probably worth a skim through the thread though before making adjustments yourself. Lots of people talking about this issue and how to fix it.


I have a similar suggestion in the NS review of the SHIFT. Search for it in the front page.
6 years ago
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postal_slime
Posts: 153 - Karma: 296
BrawnTrendsThat's what I was afraid of. Ordered them with the 110s, and my skis are 108. Hopefully they won't be too wide for it to be annoying on the uphill.

And mystery3,
I have 100mm brakes available to sell. My nomad 105s are a bit wider at the waist than listed and considering the mount position, don’t fit well enough. Bought the 110s and changing them out in an hour or so.
6 years ago
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postal_slime
Posts: 153 - Karma: 296
Anyone have a “How to” on changing out the shift brakes? Seems simple enough but any advice is appriciated.
6 years ago
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6747 - Karma: 11,771
postal_slimeAnyone have a “How to” on changing out the shift brakes? Seems simple enough but any advice is appriciated.


1. Using the forward pressure screw, screw the heel forward, and slide it off the track. The brake is attached to the heel piece by 2 little prongs that pop down into the heel piece.

2. Wiggle/pop the brake assembly off the heel piece and snap on the new brake.

3. Slide the entire heel piece onto the heel tray and reset your forward pressure accordingly.
6 years ago
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cydwhit
Posts: 5079 - Karma: 43,074
postal_slimeAnd mystery3,
I have 100mm brakes available to sell. My nomad 105s are a bit wider at the waist than listed and considering the mount position, don’t fit well enough. Bought the 110s and changing them out in an hour or so.


Yeah.... I remember when I reviewed that ski, the 191 cm version was like 112 underfoot? Pretty sure there's something real funky going on with Icelantic's stated dimensions.
6 years ago
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Mar-O
Posts: 960 - Karma: 827
As I see more people here has written about I'm also struggling with not being able to lock the toe piece in walk mode, anyone found a solution or gotten a new pair on warranty yet or still just need to keep them inside over night to avoid them icing up?

Also really weird thing happen today when touring, the brake suddenly fell off. Had to screw the entire heel part out to re attach the brakes. Anyone else had this happen? Really cant understand how that was even possible if they were mounted correctly, but also cant see how they could have been mounted incorrectly without me noticing with about a week of skiing on them already..

**This post was edited on Feb 3rd 2019 at 5:22:57pm
6 years ago
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,788
Mar-OAs I see more people here has written about I'm also struggling with not being able to lock the toe piece in walk mode, anyone found a solution or gotten a new pair on warranty yet or still just need to keep them inside over night to avoid them icing up?

Also really weird thing happen today when touring, the brake fell off when. Had to screw the entire heel part out to re attach the brakes. Anyone else had this happen? Really cant understand how that was even possible if they were mounted correctly, but also cant see how they could have been mounted incorrectly without me noticing with about a week of skiing on them already..


For the first part I just make sure to get the ice off any time I transition. If they’re clear of ice they lock with a good pull. If they’re not clear I even have issues getting the pins to open up to get my boot in. Like LeeLau has mentioned the binding is sensitive to ice and snow buildup. Best to just keep it as clear as possible.

The brake issue sounds like no fun. Haven’t heard of that happening before!
6 years ago
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f100prerunner
Posts: 504 - Karma: 1,313
Mar-OAs I see more people here has written about I'm also struggling with not being able to lock the toe piece in walk mode, anyone found a solution or gotten a new pair on warranty yet or still just need to keep them inside over night to avoid them icing up?

Also really weird thing happen today when touring, the brake suddenly fell off. Had to screw the entire heel part out to re attach the brakes. Anyone else had this happen? Really cant understand how that was even possible if they were mounted correctly, but also cant see how they could have been mounted incorrectly without me noticing with about a week of skiing on them already..

**This post was edited on Feb 3rd 2019 at 5:22:57pm

If you took the screws out make sure to have thrown some glue back in!
On a side note I purchased these bindings and seeing all this stuff kinda makes me worried; despite only one use mine worked great though!
6 years ago
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Mar-O
Posts: 960 - Karma: 827
f100prerunnerIf you took the screws out make sure to have thrown some glue back in!
On a side note I purchased these bindings and seeing all this stuff kinda makes me worried; despite only one use mine worked great though!


Didn't take any screws out, just screwed on the length adjuster until I was able to slide the heel part off the tracks, if that made any more sense. Luckikly I was just able to turn that screw around with my keys, but for next time I have for sure learned that it's probably a good idea to bring some basic tools..
6 years ago
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JibbaTheHutt
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 1,597
So having some issues with my Lange freetour boots. Have adjusted the toe height to its max and have replaced my toe and heels so they are literally brand new, never warn. and yet i am still getting tons of play in the toe, i reckon coming up 1cm of movement which obviously means i pre release constantly.

First picture is my Lange boots pulled up to show how much gap between the toe and AFD, and the 2nd picture is my dalbello scorpion 130s (full din sole not been raised or routered) with minimal wear. As you can see my dalbellos sit with no play like they should.

Ive also attached a video of how much play there is in the toe.
6 years ago
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,440
JibbaTheHuttHave adjusted the toe height to its max


That doesn't look adjusted to the max to me. Mine go higher than that.
6 years ago
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1627 - Karma: 8,689
JibbaTheHuttSo having some issues with my Lange freetour boots. Have adjusted the toe height to its max and have replaced my toe and heels so they are literally brand new, never warn. and yet i am still getting tons of play in the toe, i reckon coming up 1cm of movement which obviously means i pre release constantly.

First picture is my Lange boots pulled up to show how much gap between the toe and AFD, and the 2nd picture is my dalbello scorpion 130s (full din sole not been raised or routered) with minimal wear. As you can see my dalbellos sit with no play like they should.

Ive also attached a video of how much play there is in the toe.


Is that with the toe pins in touring mode? I.e, with the toe pins in the inserts of your freetours?
6 years ago
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JibbaTheHutt
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 1,597
patagonialukeIs that with the toe pins in touring mode? I.e, with the toe pins in the inserts of your freetours?


no that is in ski mode here is a video for reference
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/924014/video-1549480109-mp4
6 years ago
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