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Official: Atomic & Salomon Shift 13 MNC Binding Thread

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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
Hey NS,

I've gotten a few requests to make a Shift binding thread, similar to the Hawx Ultra XTD thread, where you can dump all of your questions and I will do my best to answer them.

I'll skip a story intro as that's already been beaten to death across the interwebz, but I'll throw some basic stats down for reference.

DIN range: 6 - 13

Boot norms (for skiing):
Alpine ISO 5355
Touring ISO 9523 (Full Rubber, WTR, Grip Walk)
Not compatible with non-norm boots (Atomic Backland, Salomon X-Alp, Dynafit TLT 7, Scarpa F1, etc.)

Elastic Travel (toe):
Shift - 47mm
STH2 - 52mm
Warden - 30mm
Marker Kingpin - 3mm
Dynafit Radical ST 2.0 - 3mm

Power Transmission - toe MX (daN/mm):
Shift - 6
Warden 13 - 6
Marker Baron - 5
Marker Griffon - 5.5

Length Adjustment (heel tray) - 30mm

Stand Height:
Toe (alpine boot) - maximum 28mm
Toe (touring boot) - minimum 20mm
Can be adjusted anywhere within that range via adjustable AFD.
Heel - 29mm

Climbing Heights - 2° (no aide), 10° (with aide)

Brakes: 90mm, 100mm, 110mm, 120mm

Crampons: 100mm, 120mm

Weights (pair):
Shift - 1732g (with 90mm brakes & screws)
Warden 13 - 2260g
Marker Griffon - 1910g
Marker Baron - 2450g
Marker Kingpin - 1549g (from Blister)
Dynafit Radical FT 2.0 - 1305g (from Blister)

**This thread was edited on Jan 3rd 2018 at 8:07:17am

**This thread was edited on Jan 3rd 2018 at 8:08:23am
Dec 16 2017 12:05PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
Standheight seems somewhat high.

Any plans for a higher/lower din range?
Dec 16 2017 12:52PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
.lenconStandheight seems somewhat high.

Any plans for a higher/lower din range?


Average toe stand height is about 25mm, since most people will be using some sort of rockered sole. In this regard it's about the same as our Warden binding, which is 22mm. A sliding AFD is a big contributing factor for the height, but that is also what allows the binding to accept all of the different normed soles.
Dec 16 2017 4:32PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
.lenconAny plans for a higher/lower din range?


We're definitely looking into all possible options for the future.
Dec 16 2017 4:33PM
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ahshit
Posts: 1248 - Karma: 3,024
I heard the release is next September, will there be pre-orders?
Dec 16 2017 5:30PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
sickskiI heard the release is next September, will there be pre-orders?


Retailers will have them in stock for September 2018. You can definitely pre-order them with your local Atomic or Salomon retailer to ensure you get one (because, just like Hawx Ultra XTD, they will sell out in year one), but there will not be an early release prior to September.
Dec 16 2017 5:41PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7481 - Karma: 11,497
Crampon compatibility?

Edit: Let me clarify, will it be Atomic/Salomon stand-alone or will it be similar to what other brands offer

**This post was edited on Dec 16th 2017 at 9:09:52pm
Dec 16 2017 8:04PM
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Cole9
Posts: 339 - Karma: 741
.MASSHOLE.Crampon compatibility?

Yes says in post
Dec 16 2017 8:13PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8901 - Karma: 35,885
Cole9Yes says in post


no it doesnt. He is asking if crampons of other brands will be comparable with it, or if only the salomon crampons will work. Similar to how a dynafit crampon works with a kingpin.
Dec 16 2017 9:22PM
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ahshit
Posts: 1248 - Karma: 3,024
Any word on what the price is?
Dec 17 2017 12:55AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
.MASSHOLE.Crampon compatibility?

Edit: Let me clarify, will it be Atomic/Salomon stand-alone or will it be similar to what other brands offer

**This post was edited on Dec 16th 2017 at 9:09:52pm


The crampon is specific to Shift due to it's unique construction/layout. Other brand's crampons won't work unfortunately. It would have been nice (like with Backland/MTN binding takes a Dynafit crampon) but it just wasn't possible.
Dec 17 2017 6:13AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
sickskiAny word on what the price is?


MSRP is $650 USD
Dec 17 2017 6:17AM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 43,008
Threads because this thing really, really has my attention.
Dec 17 2017 1:17PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
cydwhitThreads because this thing really, really has my attention.


Have you skied it yet?
Dec 17 2017 2:12PM
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cydwhit
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 43,008
onenerdykidHave you skied it yet?


No!

Just got back in from skiing the Hawx 120 XTD (again). Man, that boot just keeps making me happy.

Really interested to see if this binding matches that boot's potential.
Dec 17 2017 6:23PM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1682 - Karma: 10,914
I just want to know about those new atomic skis coming ;)
Dec 18 2017 4:38PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
powpatrolI just want to know about those new atomic skis coming ;)


You mean the one Daron is holding in that Shift video? ;)
Dec 19 2017 2:44AM
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powpatrol
Posts: 1682 - Karma: 10,914
onenerdykidYou mean the one Daron is holding in that Shift video? ;)

I mean the whole new lineup :P
Dec 19 2017 1:50PM
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e.will
Posts: 1981 - Karma: 967
I'd really like to see some videos that aren't 3d renderings of how it works exactly. Matt, can you string that up for me? Seems to speak to the same consumer that would be rocking your Ultra 130 boot so that's cool, and the elasticity in the toe is reaaaallly interesting. I've been saying this for years -- well since kingpins came around -- that everyone seems so consumed with that damn heel, when the true issue in all of this is the toe-piece.

That's a hefty bit of weight, though. I feel like I'm more likely to string up slightly heavier skis because Tech bindings are so light. If you were to piece together a setup for downhill-priority touring, you're looking at a pretty sluggish uphill rig (say, a 1800g ski with these bindings, and 1650g boot; that's a pretty heavy setup).

I'm far from a weight weenie/rando rob, but the upshots of this binding seem to be tailored to the Euro Crowd (not entirely surprising) where you take a lift up and then start touring, and you're approach expand more horizontally than vertically. Or those quick hit, get to the low hanging gnar not far from the road. In the second situation, I'd rather just deal with dukes.

here in the cascades, where you easily crank out 5-6 laps on 800 vert pitches or if I were still back in Montana with long-ass approaches, it just seems like too much for not enough performance coming down.

I guess I'm just wishing G3 made an ION FR with decent elasticity in the toe. I feel like that chassis in the toe stack could easily accommodate the same kind of spring already in the heel without adding more than 150g. But I'm not doctor.

But Matt if you want to make a believer, I'd be more than happy to put one through the wringer....
Dec 19 2017 5:59PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
e.willI'd really like to see some videos that aren't 3d renderings of how it works exactly. Matt, can you string that up for me? Seems to speak to the same consumer that would be rocking your Ultra 130 boot so that's cool, and the elasticity in the toe is reaaaallly interesting. I've been saying this for years -- well since kingpins came around -- that everyone seems so consumed with that damn heel, when the true issue in all of this is the toe-piece.

That's a hefty bit of weight, though. I feel like I'm more likely to string up slightly heavier skis because Tech bindings are so light. If you were to piece together a setup for downhill-priority touring, you're looking at a pretty sluggish uphill rig (say, a 1800g ski with these bindings, and 1650g boot; that's a pretty heavy setup).

I'm far from a weight weenie/rando rob, but the upshots of this binding seem to be tailored to the Euro Crowd (not entirely surprising) where you take a lift up and then start touring, and you're approach expand more horizontally than vertically. Or those quick hit, get to the low hanging gnar not far from the road. In the second situation, I'd rather just deal with dukes.

here in the cascades, where you easily crank out 5-6 laps on 800 vert pitches or if I were still back in Montana with long-ass approaches, it just seems like too much for not enough performance coming down.

I guess I'm just wishing G3 made an ION FR with decent elasticity in the toe. I feel like that chassis in the toe stack could easily accommodate the same kind of spring already in the heel without adding more than 150g. But I'm not doctor.

But Matt if you want to make a believer, I'd be more than happy to put one through the wringer....


Renders will always be done first since all they require is CAD software and rendering programs. "Real life" videos will be arriving shortly, but they always take longer to orchestrate.

Actually, most Euros (central Europe) will think this binding is too heavy- weight weenie touring is what is more popular over here than freeride touring. But, this binding is really designed for people who favor skiing rather than touring while still wanting a light & efficient set up. It's definitely heavier than a traditional pin set up, but this thing skis like a legit 2-piece alpine binding. I think once you get a pair of these in your hand or the chance to ski them, you will never touch a frame binding again. And that's what Shift will make obsolete. Not super light pin set ups- those will always exist.

Unfortunately, you'll have to wait a bit to get one of these. The first wave of bindings has arrived, but they're all spoken for.
Dec 20 2017 3:06AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
Hey Matt, do you have any idea of the Shift mounting screw pattern? Is is similar to a STH? or a Warden? Or something completely different?
Debating if I keep a pair (twice-drilled) unmounted just in case or if I should just sell it now and get new skis...
Jan 21 2018 6:21AM
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TheWeaz
Posts: 803 - Karma: 1,903
How does the shift compare in elastic travel/ power transfer to the p18/14 I know they’re not direct comparison but you have griffons and jesters up there. And the p18 with the cast conversion would be a pretty direct competitor.
Jan 21 2018 11:30AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
BrawnTrendsHey Matt, do you have any idea of the Shift mounting screw pattern? Is is similar to a STH? or a Warden? Or something completely different?
Debating if I keep a pair (twice-drilled) unmounted just in case or if I should just sell it now and get new skis...

It's a completely unique mounting pattern, unfortunately. I don't have a jig yet but I don't think any of the holes will line up.

TheWeazHow does the shift compare in elastic travel/ power transfer to the p18/14 I know they’re not direct comparison but you have griffons and jesters up there. And the p18 with the cast conversion would be a pretty direct competitor.

I forget exactly how much elastic travel is in the toe of the Look P-series, but the STH toe always had the most in any comparison I've seen. Their heel has a bit more, but our toe has a bit more.
Jan 21 2018 11:52AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
onenerdykidIt's a completely unique mounting pattern, unfortunately. I don't have a jig yet but I don't think any of the holes will line up.


Crap. Well maybe it will fit perfectly between the older holes! (crossing fingers)
Jan 21 2018 2:59PM
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TheWeaz
Posts: 803 - Karma: 1,903
onenerdykidI forget exactly how much elastic travel is in the toe of the Look P-series, but the STH toe always had the most in any comparison I've seen. Their heel has a bit more, but our toe has a bit more.


Based on what the internet is telling me, the pivot toe only has 40mm of elastic travel, while the heel has 28mm making it have the most overall elastic travel but not the most in the toe.

Just thought that would be good information for people to make the comparison since pivots are one of the main bindings used on NS.
Jan 21 2018 8:52PM
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Ghini
Posts: 2261 - Karma: 3,002
When did this project start?

What were the problems underway?

Who invented the system?

What patents are there on the system?

What do you think that will happen with Markers Kingpin sales?

How many will you produce for next season?

How many brands or what brands will re-brand the binding?
Jan 22 2018 11:21AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
GhiniWhen did this project start?

What were the problems underway?

Who invented the system?

What patents are there on the system?

What do you think that will happen with Markers Kingpin sales?

How many will you produce for next season?

How many brands or what brands will re-brand the binding?


It was already on the drawing board in Austria in 2010, when I started with the company. Despite Salomon's marketing wizardry, this is a joint project between Salomon and Atomic with both brands' R&D, money, athletes, and testing.

If you can name a problem, it happened- but that goes for everything that is genuinely new and why it took 7 years to bring to life.

There are public patents on the binding, that are available for anyone to look at. FYI- our patent was already applied for and granted before BAM announced they had a similar idea.

When any new product comes to market, existing competitors will feel pressure for sure. This binding is directly aimed at skiers who want touring efficiency with downhill skiing performance. The Kingpin is one such binding on the market that tries to deliver on that promise.

Given when retailers start ordering the binding and when bindings need to be delivered to retailers (early Fall 2018) there is a definite finite amount that we can produce and therefore a finite amount that retailers will be able to get their hands on, and I absolutely guarantee you that the bindings (from both brands) will fully be sold out mid-season. First year will be in a short supply given the time it takes to produce this binding and the production/shipping window we have. But after that, this binding will be 100% available just like any other binding in our range.

As far as I am aware, there are no other brands getting this binding (not even Armada).
Jan 22 2018 12:36PM
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gapersarefriends
Posts: 2158 - Karma: 4,270
onenerdykidAs far as I am aware, there are no other brands getting this binding (not even Armada).

Maybe i am an idiot but why the armada mention?
Jan 22 2018 10:09PM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1626 - Karma: 8,673
gapersarefriendsMaybe i am an idiot but why the armada mention?


Owned by the same parent company (Amer)
Jan 22 2018 10:17PM
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gapersarefriends
Posts: 2158 - Karma: 4,270
patagonialukeOwned by the same parent company (Amer)

Yeah but why get the binding? like to sell with armada skis for a cheaper package than getting separately?
Jan 22 2018 10:18PM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
Reserved
Jan 22 2018 11:18PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
gapersarefriendsYeah but why get the binding? like to sell with armada skis for a cheaper package than getting separately?


Every brand wants to offer the complete package and get more "brand presence" in a store- if your company's name is on more products, then that means less product placement/recognition for another company.

I also think that if a brand had the R&D, budget, factory capabilities, etc. to make/market everything they wanted at the level of quality they wanted, they totally would.
Jan 23 2018 2:46AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
For those interested in seeing more about the Shift, and for example the mounting process (starts at 3:36)


https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/891407/Freeride-Unboxing--Salomon-S-Lab-Shift-MNC-13--with-English-subtitles-

**This post was edited on Jan 26th 2018 at 6:17:04am
Jan 26 2018 5:48AM
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 633
onenerdykidMSRP is $650 USD


I've now heard 650 CAD 550USD 450 EUR
Feb 26 2018 11:02PM
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 633
And a dump of more info
Feb 26 2018 11:05PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
LeeLauI've now heard 650 CAD 550USD 450 EUR


MSRP vs MAP
Feb 27 2018 2:36AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
I've skied it. It works well, but I won't be buying it given that I have kingpins and Tectons already and like how they tour far better.

I'm impressed, but if I'm going with upwards 900g per foot, I feel like I might as well go with CAST, a binding I trust more, and 100g more. (Granted with the weight of the toepieces in my pack.. but I won't be doing any 10k missions on either)

It's a good option, and I expect them to sell a bajillion... I'll be eying the Backland binding instead.. as I'd love a solid low tech unit for peak baggery.
Feb 28 2018 2:06AM
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Kevski
Posts: 7056 - Karma: 2,785
This binding is the exact thing I need for my resort-primary with the option to do some sidecountry setup. I'll be doing my best to pick some up this fall but I'm definitely interested to keep in the loop on this thread as people continue to share their feedback.

Not that it really matters at all but I totally prefer the white aesthetic of the Atomic version - will both companies' versions likely be distributed equally in North America?
Feb 28 2018 8:19PM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
DingoSeanI've skied it. It works well, but I won't be buying it given that I have kingpins and Tectons already and like how they tour far better.

I'm impressed, but if I'm going with upwards 900g per foot, I feel like I might as well go with CAST, a binding I trust more, and 100g more. (Granted with the weight of the toepieces in my pack.. but I won't be doing any 10k missions on either)

It's a good option, and I expect them to sell a bajillion... I'll be eying the Backland binding instead.. as I'd love a solid low tech unit for peak baggery.


Can you do a compare of the tecton ski feel and downhill feel compared to shift? Kingpin seems dead to me. So close in weight to shift.
Feb 28 2018 9:03PM
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tomPietrowski
Posts: 7147 - Karma: 17,499
Spent a few days on them so far including a full day in the park, and these things are the real deal. I actually forgot I was testing the binding as they just work and have no issues for me at all. I have kingpins on my bc skis and the shift destroy them in ski feel and hold. Light weight tech is not an opttion for me, I broke a radical in less then a week, so really this is by far the best option out there I think. Its not perfect, we will discss the issues in the review, but they are small and would not discourage me from replacing my kingpins
Feb 28 2018 10:24PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
ucberzerkeleyCan you do a compare of the tecton ski feel and downhill feel compared to shift? Kingpin seems dead to me. So close in weight to shift.


I don't get the dead feeling you describe.. It might be based on the ski you have them on? Maybe your boot? Recently I've skied them on My own Armada TST, the Black Crows corvus and corvus Freebird, dps wailer 112 alchemist, some powder factory brand out of Colorado, and my buddy's atris. I didn't feel like anything was much of an issue due to the binding.

Either way.. I will say I feel slightly partial to my tectons and vipecs. They definitely feel more elastic than my kingpins. So do the radical 2.0. Maybe you aren't feeling a deadness so much as a lack of inelacticity in the toepiece?
Feb 28 2018 10:46PM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
I definitely feel more power transfer through the toepiece on the kingpin... same goes for the ion 12.
Feb 28 2018 10:48PM
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 633
KevskiThis binding is the exact thing I need for my resort-primary with the option to do some sidecountry setup. I'll be doing my best to pick some up this fall but I'm definitely interested to keep in the loop on this thread as people continue to share their feedback.

Not that it really matters at all but I totally prefer the white aesthetic of the Atomic version - will both companies' versions likely be distributed equally in North America?


Both Atomic and Salomon will have buckets of units for NA distribution
Mar 3 2018 12:48PM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
Would any mags be interested in a group pre-order if I organized?

**This post was edited on Mar 3rd 2018 at 3:07:37pm
Mar 3 2018 3:07PM
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LeeLau
Posts: 104 - Karma: 633
Fyi

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etetongravity%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D318656&share_tid=318656&share_fid=28572&share_type=t

Official Group Buy Thread for Salomon S/LAB SHIFT Binders
ucberzerkeleyWould any mags be interested in a group pre-order if I organized?

**This post was edited on Mar 3rd 2018 at 3:07:37pm
Mar 3 2018 8:03PM
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BushwhackerNZ
Posts: 14 - Karma: 32
LeeLauI've now heard 650 CAD 550USD 450 EUR


Have heard $1300 NZD
Mar 4 2018 12:24AM
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ucberzerkeley
Posts: 135 - Karma: 204
LeeLauFyi

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etetongravity%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D318656&share_tid=318656&share_fid=28572&share_type=t

Official Group Buy Thread for Salomon S/LAB SHIFT Binders


Look at that!
Mar 4 2018 1:14PM
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margotron
Posts: 18 - Karma: 25
LeeLauFyi

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etetongravity%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D318656&share_tid=318656&share_fid=28572&share_type=t

Official Group Buy Thread for Salomon S/LAB SHIFT Binders


Hi all. I'm the guy running the group buy for Solomon Shifts. Basically if we get 30 preorders, it is 20% off for everyone with free ship. MSRP is $550 so that's $440 shipped.

LMK if you're interested or read the OP in the thread linked by LeeLau!
Mar 6 2018 1:59PM
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BushwhackerNZ
Posts: 14 - Karma: 32
margotronHi all. I'm the guy running the group buy for Solomon Shifts. Basically if we get 30 preorders, it is 20% off for everyone with free ship. MSRP is $550 so that's $440 shipped.

LMK if you're interested or read the OP in the thread linked by LeeLau!


Hey mate are you able to ship these down to New Zealand and when would these be coming in?

I can get a set in May through a guy here , but they’re like $1300 NZD/ $950 USD so not overly keen on springing that
Mar 6 2018 2:18PM
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margotron
Posts: 18 - Karma: 25
BushwhackerNZHey mate are you able to ship these down to New Zealand and when would these be coming in?

I can get a set in May through a guy here , but they’re like $1300 NZD/ $950 USD so not overly keen on springing that


i bet shipping is possible but you'd be the guy to front the cost of shipping. That cool?

how are you getting them in may? They arent released to public until September
Mar 6 2018 2:55PM
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BushwhackerNZ
Posts: 14 - Karma: 32
margotroni bet shipping is possible but you'd be the guy to front the cost of shipping. That cool?

how are you getting them in may? They arent released to public until September


Yeah that’d be cool - would have to be shipped by someone in NA though as Salomon/Atomic are pretty tight in terms of shipping restrictions and won’t ship here ie have to buy through an NZ dealer- so would have to make that’s all legit.

Our winter starts in June down here so we tend to get some stuff a season “ahead”/earlier. Dude that I’m getting them from is pretty hooked up as well.

From what I understand Atomic is making a small amount available down here for pre-order through certain people. Sick getting it early for sure, but paying pretty much double on everyone else all the time is really starting to rip my undies

**This post was edited on Mar 6th 2018 at 7:21:36pm
Mar 6 2018 7:19PM
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