Member of the Month

KilaTsunami
October, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Pivot bindings worth it?

profile picture
Blynch2
Posts: 480 - Karma: 1,006
ATM I have Tyrolia Attack bindings, but knowing how often and costly acl injuries are, I was considering purchasing a pivot binding. (Probably rossignol) Is this kind of technology worth it and does it successfully prevent act tears? Thanks
Nov 14 2017 11:55AM
2 0
profile picture
Blynch2
Posts: 480 - Karma: 1,006
Mods you can move this to gear talk if you'd like
Nov 14 2017 11:56AM
2 0
profile picture
Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,482
They don't prevent acl tears, the pivot heel does not allow for lateral heel release. They are somewhat safer though due to the elasticity of the binding allowing you to run a lower din without prerelease.
Nov 14 2017 11:57AM
3 0
profile picture
BigScaryLarry
Posts: 1448 - Karma: 2,732
I wrote a paper on this and Pivots/FKS are safer than your average binding but not as as safe as the Knee binding. However that being said no binding will ever truly protect you from a knee injury. The best thing you can do to prevent a knee injury is to be knowledgable about the way that knee injuries happen and train yourself to prevent them in your skiing. For example landing very backseat and trying to turn out and stand back up is one of the most common ways to blow out your knee.
Nov 14 2017 12:08PM
6 0
profile picture
Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,829
Saho3914They don't prevent acl tears, the pivot heel does not allow for lateral heel release. They are somewhat safer though due to the elasticity of the binding allowing you to run a lower din without prerelease.


False. OP get pivots/fks. You will look fresh, you knees wont blow, its a win win.
Nov 14 2017 12:08PM
8 6
profile picture
Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,482
DeepskierFalse. OP get pivots/fks. You will look fresh, you knees wont blow, its a win win.


It's a common misconception that turntable heels allow for lateral release but they don't. Pivots are basically the same as any other binding in terms of safety. The only advantage is heel elasticity, but thats not really a reason to take attacks off and get pivots.
Nov 14 2017 12:20PM
5 0
profile picture
Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,829
Saho3914It's a common misconception that turntable heels allow for lateral release but they don't. Pivots are basically the same as any other binding in terms of safety. The only advantage is heel elasticity, but thats not really a reason to take attacks off and get pivots.


they turn table and 3 contact points definitely allow lateral release.
Nov 14 2017 12:22PM
1 6
profile picture
JWillySkeez
Posts: 424 - Karma: 1,096
I personally run them on all of my skis. I just like how solid the 18's are. They also mount super close to the ski so IMO you get better ski feel.
Nov 14 2017 12:28PM
2 0
profile picture
skierman
Posts: 8343 - Karma: 7,659
Nah man, they're crap. Stick with the Squire 11s.
Nov 14 2017 12:31PM
10 2
profile picture
Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,482
Deepskierthey turn table and 3 contact points definitely allow lateral release.

No, they don't.

https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/780506/Are-look-pivots-rossignol-fks-any-safer-than-a-normal-binding-
Nov 14 2017 12:34PM
4 0
profile picture
Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,829
Saho3914No, they don't.

https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/780506/Are-look-pivots-rossignol-fks-any-safer-than-a-normal-binding-


Either way, I think chances of a knee injury are lowered.
Nov 14 2017 12:36PM
0 3
profile picture
Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,482
DeepskierEither way, I think chances of a knee injury are lowered.


Yes, slightly, because of the higher elasticity.
Nov 14 2017 12:39PM
1 0
profile picture
snowpocalypse
Posts: 1036 - Karma: 3,525
No it does not successfully prevent ACL tears. Done, end of conversation.........

Its extremely durable and is very elastic. Note nothing about safer. The issue is, kids getting Pivots because that's what so and so rides and it must be the best binding. They crank it up the 12 and weight only 130lbs. Not a good combo. Ride your DIN or a "little" higher and don't max the binding out and you will be alright.
Nov 14 2017 1:32PM
3 1
profile picture
SofaKingSick
Posts: 9292 - Karma: 60,997
they are excellent bindings, but so are Attacks

no they are not *technically* safer or better for your knees but they are top of the line bindings that have a reputation earned over decades for not pre releasing, and therefore do not need to be set to higher DINs (like people who prerelease are prone to do on other bindings), and this has gotten them a reputation for being "safer"

moreover they are low to the ski which people love, but i think attacks have a good "stack height" as well.

there's no need to get pivots now instead of your attacks, but it is a binding worth considering another time. they are also super durable-- my current pair ive owned since 2003 and ive put them through hell
Nov 14 2017 2:19PM
2 0
profile picture
SofaKingSick
Posts: 9292 - Karma: 60,997
if i recall correctly, the Line Reactor binding tried to have a lateral release but they were total pieces of shit and didnt take off

knee bindings might too but theyve never gotten popular, i forget why
Nov 14 2017 2:20PM
1 0
profile picture
Sharko
Posts: 2274 - Karma: 4,101
SofaKingSickknee bindings might too but theyve never gotten popular, i forget why


Very heavy, very high up off the ski, weird ramp angle, expensive
Nov 14 2017 2:24PM
2 0
profile picture
a_burger
Posts: 5235 - Karma: 20,715
SofaKingSickknee bindings might too but theyve never gotten popular, i forget why


because they were also total peices of shit
Nov 14 2017 2:34PM
3 0
profile picture
lil.Boye
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 12,050
from what i've heard from more experienced skiers the Look Pivot is worth it. they usually outlast most bindings.
Nov 14 2017 2:51PM
0 0
profile picture
Zypher
Posts: 2337 - Karma: 2,268
JWillySkeezI personally run them on all of my skis. I just like how solid the 18's are. They also mount super close to the ski so IMO you get better ski feel.

The attacks have a lower stack height than the pivots so in reality the attacks have better boot to ski interface than the pivots but not by much. I believe the attacks are at 17mm stack height and the pivots are either at 19mm or 20mm. That being said, the heel elasticity gives you a slightly better drive than the attacks. I personally run attacks on most of my skis because of the lightness of them but I also run axials and pivots on my other skis that I carve more with to get a slightly better engaged turn. Either binding is good, its all about personal preference.
Mort.Mcflyfrom what i've heard from more experienced skiers the Look Pivot is worth it. they usually outlast most bindings.

Usually is the key word here. It all depends on how hard you ski and how you treat your gear. I've seen bindings blow up and bindings last a life time and it all depends on how you take care of your equipment. That being said, tyrolias have the advantage here because if you break anything at all on pivots of FKS you can expect a 70+ dollar fee in order to fix it.
Nov 14 2017 4:42PM
0 0
profile picture
s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
Strange.Journey.I wrote a paper on this and Pivots/FKS are safer than your average binding but not as as safe as the Knee binding. However that being said no binding will ever truly protect you from a knee injury. The best thing you can do to prevent a knee injury is to be knowledgable about the way that knee injuries happen and train yourself to prevent them in your skiing. For example landing very backseat and trying to turn out and stand back up is one of the most common ways to blow out your knee.


Bingo. This is exactly right.
Nov 14 2017 9:39PM
2 0
profile picture
s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
Deepskierthey turn table and 3 contact points definitely allow lateral release.


Nope. Look at where the arms connect the dildo part. they are right in the way of where a boot would release.
Nov 14 2017 9:40PM
4 0
profile picture
Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,829
s-handNope. Look at where the arms connect the dildo part. they are right in the way of where a boot would release.


Yes, Ive heard that argument but at the binding twists and boot comes out they move out of the way.
Nov 14 2017 11:22PM
0 3
profile picture
Deepskier
Posts: 3267 - Karma: 4,829
The referenced post has been removed.


I'm already over this thread, don't care that much. I fuck with pivots either way. I belive you as there are open sides in a toe piece and a sliding AFD (also for easy replacing) but I belive you can kick some ones heels out while the toe stays somewhat in place.
Nov 14 2017 11:35PM
0 4
profile picture
Cade2
Posts: 2124 - Karma: 2,707
I'd just stick to what you have
Nov 15 2017 12:37AM
0 0
profile picture
BigScaryLarry
Posts: 1448 - Karma: 2,732
The referenced post has been removed.

Medical papers about knee injuries in sports and skiing. Mostly papers on ski racers and mogul skiers cuz no one writes papers on park rats lol. I then used that and other research to study the body mechanics of the knee and how it interacts with bindings and their different points of release. If I can find the paper I'll post it but it was on my old laptop. It was about 14+ pages long tho
Nov 15 2017 10:59AM
1 0
profile picture
Connor29
Posts: 105 - Karma: 383
Strange.Journey.Medical papers about knee injuries in sports and skiing. Mostly papers on ski racers and mogul skiers cuz no one writes papers on park rats lol. I then used that and other research to study the body mechanics of the knee and how it interacts with bindings and their different points of release. If I can find the paper I'll post it but it was on my old laptop. It was about 14+ pages long tho


Would love to read it if you can find it.
Nov 17 2017 12:42AM
2 0
profile picture
lil.Boye
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 12,050
who the fuck cares. you will get hurt either way. look bindings looks hella fresh and they last long
Nov 17 2017 7:12AM
0 3
profile picture
skierman
Posts: 8343 - Karma: 7,659
The referenced post has been removed.


Common sense mostly. Don't be a jackass. If you're landing heavy backseat, just fall. There's no point in trying to ride it out. Most knee injuries happen because jackasses pull that crap. I've destroyed my knees due to overshooting and casing jumps but I have never pulled/torn any ligaments because I collapse like a rag doll if shit aint going right.
Nov 18 2017 7:48PM
1 0
profile picture
bradwalters
Posts: 381 - Karma: 3,035
I definitely blew my ACL riding Pivots but it was my error. If you get the 18's just be modest with your setting because those things will lock you to your ski and then some.

Still my go-to binding and always will be.

**This post was edited on Nov 19th 2017 at 4:42:19pm
Nov 19 2017 4:41PM
2 0
All times are Eastern (-5)