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Pivot bindings worth it?

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Blynch2
Posts: 480 - Karma: 1,006
ATM I have Tyrolia Attack bindings, but knowing how often and costly acl injuries are, I was considering purchasing a pivot binding. (Probably rossignol) Is this kind of technology worth it and does it successfully prevent act tears? Thanks
8 years ago
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Blynch2
Posts: 480 - Karma: 1,006
Mods you can move this to gear talk if you'd like
8 years ago
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,483
They don't prevent acl tears, the pivot heel does not allow for lateral heel release. They are somewhat safer though due to the elasticity of the binding allowing you to run a lower din without prerelease.
8 years ago
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BigScaryLarry
Posts: 1448 - Karma: 2,733
I wrote a paper on this and Pivots/FKS are safer than your average binding but not as as safe as the Knee binding. However that being said no binding will ever truly protect you from a knee injury. The best thing you can do to prevent a knee injury is to be knowledgable about the way that knee injuries happen and train yourself to prevent them in your skiing. For example landing very backseat and trying to turn out and stand back up is one of the most common ways to blow out your knee.
8 years ago
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Deepskier
Posts: 3270 - Karma: 4,865
Saho3914They don't prevent acl tears, the pivot heel does not allow for lateral heel release. They are somewhat safer though due to the elasticity of the binding allowing you to run a lower din without prerelease.


False. OP get pivots/fks. You will look fresh, you knees wont blow, its a win win.
8 years ago
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,483
DeepskierFalse. OP get pivots/fks. You will look fresh, you knees wont blow, its a win win.


It's a common misconception that turntable heels allow for lateral release but they don't. Pivots are basically the same as any other binding in terms of safety. The only advantage is heel elasticity, but thats not really a reason to take attacks off and get pivots.
8 years ago
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Deepskier
Posts: 3270 - Karma: 4,865
Saho3914It's a common misconception that turntable heels allow for lateral release but they don't. Pivots are basically the same as any other binding in terms of safety. The only advantage is heel elasticity, but thats not really a reason to take attacks off and get pivots.


they turn table and 3 contact points definitely allow lateral release.
8 years ago
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JWillySkeez
Posts: 424 - Karma: 1,100
I personally run them on all of my skis. I just like how solid the 18's are. They also mount super close to the ski so IMO you get better ski feel.
8 years ago
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skierman
Posts: 8619 - Karma: 9,451
Nah man, they're crap. Stick with the Squire 11s.
8 years ago
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,483
Deepskierthey turn table and 3 contact points definitely allow lateral release.

No, they don't.

https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/780506/Are-look-pivots-rossignol-fks-any-safer-than-a-normal-binding-
8 years ago
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Deepskier
Posts: 3270 - Karma: 4,865
Saho3914No, they don't.

https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/780506/Are-look-pivots-rossignol-fks-any-safer-than-a-normal-binding-


Either way, I think chances of a knee injury are lowered.
8 years ago
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,483
DeepskierEither way, I think chances of a knee injury are lowered.


Yes, slightly, because of the higher elasticity.
8 years ago
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snowpocalypse
Posts: 1036 - Karma: 3,527
No it does not successfully prevent ACL tears. Done, end of conversation.........

Its extremely durable and is very elastic. Note nothing about safer. The issue is, kids getting Pivots because that's what so and so rides and it must be the best binding. They crank it up the 12 and weight only 130lbs. Not a good combo. Ride your DIN or a "little" higher and don't max the binding out and you will be alright.
8 years ago
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9819 - Karma: 66,347
they are excellent bindings, but so are Attacks

no they are not *technically* safer or better for your knees but they are top of the line bindings that have a reputation earned over decades for not pre releasing, and therefore do not need to be set to higher DINs (like people who prerelease are prone to do on other bindings), and this has gotten them a reputation for being "safer"

moreover they are low to the ski which people love, but i think attacks have a good "stack height" as well.

there's no need to get pivots now instead of your attacks, but it is a binding worth considering another time. they are also super durable-- my current pair ive owned since 2003 and ive put them through hell
8 years ago
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9819 - Karma: 66,347
if i recall correctly, the Line Reactor binding tried to have a lateral release but they were total pieces of shit and didnt take off

knee bindings might too but theyve never gotten popular, i forget why
8 years ago
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Sharko
Posts: 2274 - Karma: 4,104
SofaKingSickknee bindings might too but theyve never gotten popular, i forget why


Very heavy, very high up off the ski, weird ramp angle, expensive
8 years ago
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a_burger
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 21,143
SofaKingSickknee bindings might too but theyve never gotten popular, i forget why


because they were also total peices of shit
8 years ago
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lil.Boye
Posts: 2792 - Karma: 12,682
from what i've heard from more experienced skiers the Look Pivot is worth it. they usually outlast most bindings.
8 years ago
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Zypher
Posts: 2337 - Karma: 2,268
JWillySkeezI personally run them on all of my skis. I just like how solid the 18's are. They also mount super close to the ski so IMO you get better ski feel.

The attacks have a lower stack height than the pivots so in reality the attacks have better boot to ski interface than the pivots but not by much. I believe the attacks are at 17mm stack height and the pivots are either at 19mm or 20mm. That being said, the heel elasticity gives you a slightly better drive than the attacks. I personally run attacks on most of my skis because of the lightness of them but I also run axials and pivots on my other skis that I carve more with to get a slightly better engaged turn. Either binding is good, its all about personal preference.
Mort.Mcflyfrom what i've heard from more experienced skiers the Look Pivot is worth it. they usually outlast most bindings.

Usually is the key word here. It all depends on how hard you ski and how you treat your gear. I've seen bindings blow up and bindings last a life time and it all depends on how you take care of your equipment. That being said, tyrolias have the advantage here because if you break anything at all on pivots of FKS you can expect a 70+ dollar fee in order to fix it.
8 years ago
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
Strange.Journey.I wrote a paper on this and Pivots/FKS are safer than your average binding but not as as safe as the Knee binding. However that being said no binding will ever truly protect you from a knee injury. The best thing you can do to prevent a knee injury is to be knowledgable about the way that knee injuries happen and train yourself to prevent them in your skiing. For example landing very backseat and trying to turn out and stand back up is one of the most common ways to blow out your knee.


Bingo. This is exactly right.
8 years ago
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s-hand
Posts: 1334 - Karma: 1,800
Deepskierthey turn table and 3 contact points definitely allow lateral release.


Nope. Look at where the arms connect the dildo part. they are right in the way of where a boot would release.
8 years ago
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Deepskier
Posts: 3270 - Karma: 4,865
s-handNope. Look at where the arms connect the dildo part. they are right in the way of where a boot would release.


Yes, Ive heard that argument but at the binding twists and boot comes out they move out of the way.
8 years ago
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Deepskier
Posts: 3270 - Karma: 4,865
The referenced post has been removed.


I'm already over this thread, don't care that much. I fuck with pivots either way. I belive you as there are open sides in a toe piece and a sliding AFD (also for easy replacing) but I belive you can kick some ones heels out while the toe stays somewhat in place.
8 years ago
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Cade2
Posts: 2124 - Karma: 2,706
I'd just stick to what you have
8 years ago
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BigScaryLarry
Posts: 1448 - Karma: 2,733
The referenced post has been removed.

Medical papers about knee injuries in sports and skiing. Mostly papers on ski racers and mogul skiers cuz no one writes papers on park rats lol. I then used that and other research to study the body mechanics of the knee and how it interacts with bindings and their different points of release. If I can find the paper I'll post it but it was on my old laptop. It was about 14+ pages long tho
8 years ago
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Connor29
Posts: 105 - Karma: 387
Strange.Journey.Medical papers about knee injuries in sports and skiing. Mostly papers on ski racers and mogul skiers cuz no one writes papers on park rats lol. I then used that and other research to study the body mechanics of the knee and how it interacts with bindings and their different points of release. If I can find the paper I'll post it but it was on my old laptop. It was about 14+ pages long tho


Would love to read it if you can find it.
8 years ago
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lil.Boye
Posts: 2792 - Karma: 12,682
who the fuck cares. you will get hurt either way. look bindings looks hella fresh and they last long
8 years ago
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skierman
Posts: 8619 - Karma: 9,451
The referenced post has been removed.


Common sense mostly. Don't be a jackass. If you're landing heavy backseat, just fall. There's no point in trying to ride it out. Most knee injuries happen because jackasses pull that crap. I've destroyed my knees due to overshooting and casing jumps but I have never pulled/torn any ligaments because I collapse like a rag doll if shit aint going right.
8 years ago
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bradwalters
Posts: 391 - Karma: 3,153
I definitely blew my ACL riding Pivots but it was my error. If you get the 18's just be modest with your setting because those things will lock you to your ski and then some.

Still my go-to binding and always will be.

**This post was edited on Nov 19th 2017 at 4:42:19pm
8 years ago
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