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New Moment Park Model Discussion

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hot.pocket
Posts: 4233 - Karma: 10,688
Hey NS,

In the coming months we are planning on designing a new park ski to help fill the void in the park lineup that the Vice has left behind. We have a few ideas as to what we would like to produce, but thought it would be cool to get the input of you, the park skiers.

Whether you have specific things you would like to see in a new park ski (waist width, radius, rocker profiles, flex profiles, etc.), have a certain style of park ski you would like to see (big jump ski, soft fat buttery ski, new wave style ski, etc.) or have similar models from other ski companies that you enjoy riding, we would like to hear it.

Alternatively, if you have anything that you see being put into park skis that you are not a fan of, we'd also like to hear about it.

While we could just go straight into it and start designing, it'd be cool to see what your thoughts are.
Oct 19 2017 4:22PM
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iHopp18
Posts: 27 - Karma: 147
Something soft in the tip and tail, with a decent amount of rocker, but solid underfoot. Waist width between 90-100 with a light core material. Tip and tail taper would be nice too
Oct 19 2017 4:34PM
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SKRockies
Posts: 606 - Karma: 1,689
Something with a close to, if not dead center mount point. 90-95 underfoot. Rocker tip and tail, camber underfoot, sandwich construction, full sidewalls, thick edges, stiff so there's more pop.
Oct 19 2017 4:50PM
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dun.Can
Posts: 503 - Karma: 1,500
symmetrical, cooked noodle in the nose with uncooked noodle in the tail, nose/tail taper, bomb proof
Oct 19 2017 5:07PM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
Would LOVE something that is like an updated Armada Pipe cleaner. Perhaps a little bit of rocker. With recommended mount thats like -2 or -1 behind center. Maybe like 88 underfoot or so.
Oct 19 2017 6:22PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8980 - Karma: 36,887
Reno rocker or reno jib
Oct 19 2017 7:14PM
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MVoller
Posts: 59 - Karma: 245
I think the perfect ski would be an all around park ski that leans more toward jumps (Seeing as the frankenski is described as more of a jib ski) Symmetrical or close to it, mid stiff to stiff all the way through with tips/tails being just softer than underfoot, and with slight rocker and taper in tips/tails so you can still do some buttering and also to lower the swing weight (with camber underfoot for grip/stability) 88-94mm at the waist, so it's not so skinny like the vice but it's still nimble (plus the pb&j already has the wide park ski category covered) and maybe some carbon stringers to add pop. Good luck with the ski can't wait to see how it comes out.

**This post was edited on Oct 19th 2017 at 7:15:56pm
Oct 19 2017 7:14PM
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Stein2424
Posts: 26 - Karma: 33
A moment version of the faction CT 2.0 would be sick. Make it super playful slight tip and tail taper symmetrical rocker in tip and tail 90-100mm underfoot and go with a 2-6 mm difference in tip to tail width. 16-22m turn radius for playfulness. Flex of 6 in the tip 7-8 underfoot and 6 or 7 in the tail. Put some thick edges on it and a durable base. Use lighter core materials mixed with something more durable. maybe use a carbon stronger to add extra pop.
Oct 19 2017 7:20PM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3750 - Karma: 7,847
~96 waist
~122 tip and ~118 tail
flat camber underfoot, stiff
rockered tip and tails, medium stiff tails, softer in tips
side to side rocker in tip and tails

side to side rocker is something that has yet to be done in park skis and has incredible potential imo
Oct 20 2017 5:24PM
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MVoller
Posts: 59 - Karma: 245
K-Dot.side to side rocker in tip and tails

side to side rocker is something that has yet to be done in park skis and has incredible potential imo
I know this has been done on snowboards, by bataleon/lobster and they’ve done it for a while, I wonder how it would do on skis.
Oct 20 2017 5:58PM
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slimeball
Posts: 592 - Karma: 668
really really really fast base
Oct 21 2017 12:03AM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1629 - Karma: 10,937
~90-95 underfoot, rocker/camber/rocker, with a decent amount of rocker and not a whole lot of camber ~3mm, semi-soft tip and tail, mid-stiff underfoot, totally symetric center mount, THICC edges, and a race base. Also, I like full sidewall but price point is also important.
Oct 21 2017 12:33AM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9221 - Karma: 5,421
hot.pocketAlternatively, if you have anything that you see being put into park skis that you are not a fan of, we'd also like to hear about it.

Seems like all park skis are tending towards wider, floppy, lots of rocker. These are fun no doubt, but they're only really great skis if you live somewhere with snow. Seems like all park skis are forgetting ice coast kind of skiing where there is mostly fake snow, lots of hard ice. Quick edge to edge turning, not super wide, and a fast base make for a great ski for me. A little bit of rocker is ok.
Oct 21 2017 10:32AM
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MVoller
Posts: 59 - Karma: 245
a_pla5tic_bagSeems like all park skis are tending towards wider, floppy, lots of rocker. These are fun no doubt, but they're only really great skis if you live somewhere with snow. Seems like all park skis are forgetting ice coast kind of skiing where there is mostly fake snow, lots of hard ice. Quick edge to edge turning, not super wide, and a fast base make for a great ski for me. A little bit of rocker is ok.

I feel the same in the upper midwest
Oct 21 2017 12:04PM
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Young_patty
Posts: 3292 - Karma: 38,157
I've always dig wider park skis (why I ride Pb&j's) so I wouldn't mind seeing a wider softer park ski but at the same time as the ice coaster stated above there are still people out there who prefer a thinner stiffer park ski
Oct 23 2017 10:43AM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5121 - Karma: 52,045
a_pla5tic_bagSeems like all park skis are tending towards wider, floppy, lots of rocker. These are fun no doubt, but they're only really great skis if you live somewhere with snow. Seems like all park skis are forgetting ice coast kind of skiing where there is mostly fake snow, lots of hard ice. Quick edge to edge turning, not super wide, and a fast base make for a great ski for me. A little bit of rocker is ok.


HG Skis are an east-coast company that make park skis that are 96 underfoot, have very little rocker and aren't super floppy. Also don't most ski companies make a ski like this? More and more people out west are starting to use wider, floppier park skis for sure, but it's not like traditional park skis are going away.
Oct 23 2017 11:14AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9357 - Karma: 61,430
BASEDJAHHG Skis are an east-coast company that make park skis that are 96 underfoot, have very little rocker and aren't super floppy. Also don't most ski companies make a ski like this? More and more people out west are starting to use wider, floppier park skis for sure, but it's not like traditional park skis are going away.


mmm and for the low, low price of TWO brand new pairs of arv86s



personally i want a wider pipe cleaner. traditional shape park ski with a great base and some actual stiffness, but my version would be 98 waist. oh and add some nose rocker
Oct 23 2017 11:18AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9357 - Karma: 61,430
SofaKingSickmmm and for the low, low price of TWO brand new pairs of arv86s



personally i want a wider pipe cleaner. traditional shape park ski with a great base and some actual stiffness, but my version would be 98 waist. oh and add some nose rocker


oh and the graphics are just a mirror
Oct 23 2017 11:18AM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5121 - Karma: 52,045
SofaKingSickmmm and for the low, low price of TWO brand new pairs of arv86s


yeah they are a little pricey, and not long enough (pls make 185), but HGs have full maple cores, which actually is becoming kind of rare. But as you said, you can still but traditional park skis from a lot of other places
Oct 23 2017 11:24AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9357 - Karma: 61,430
BASEDJAHyeah they are a little pricey, and not long enough (pls make 185), but HGs have full maple cores, which actually is becoming kind of rare. But as you said, you can still but traditional park skis from a lot of other places


I don't know dick about core materials. What's the significance of maple vs others being used?
Oct 23 2017 11:27AM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5121 - Karma: 52,045
SofaKingSickI don't know dick about core materials. What's the significance of maple vs others being used?


skis that I've had in the past with maple cores were always a little stiff to begin with, but then break in really nicely and will still have life after 2 seasons of hard shredding. It seems like the move in the industry now is towards poplar and bamboo cores because they're light and snappy right out of the box, and bamboo is more sustainable, but I think that most non-maple cores tend to wear out and feel lifeless after a while.
Oct 23 2017 11:33AM
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Pataguccimane
Posts: 551 - Karma: 1,199
K-Dot.~96 waist
~122 tip and ~118 tail
flat camber underfoot, stiff
rockered tip and tails, medium stiff tails, softer in tips
side to side rocker in tip and tails

side to side rocker is something that has yet to be done in park skis and has incredible potential imo


Actually would be super interested to see this, definitely feel like it has a place in skiing in the near future, maybe moment can kill it and be one of the first in skiing to implement it.
Oct 23 2017 12:06PM
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,482
95 underfoot ghost chant
Oct 23 2017 12:26PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4233 - Karma: 10,688
KravtZWould LOVE something that is like an updated Armada Pipe cleaner.

Will definitely check out the Pipe Cleaner.

Profahoben_212Reno rocker or reno jib

CLASSICS.

MVollerI think the perfect ski would be an all around park ski that leans more toward jumps...88-94mm at the waist, so it's not so skinny like the vice but it's still nimble (plus the pb&j already has the wide park ski category covered) and maybe some carbon stringers to add pop. Good luck with the ski can't wait to see how it comes out.

**This post was edited on Oct 19th 2017 at 7:15:56pm

So a slightly wider, updated version of the Vice? Also, all of our skis have carbon fiber stringers directly woven into the two main sheets of fiberglass and cover the entirety of the ski from tip to tail and from left to right, shown below in a cutout.



Stein2424A moment version of the faction CT 2.0 would be sick. Use lighter core materials mixed with something more durable. maybe use a carbon stronger to add extra pop.

I'll look into the CT 2.0 and see what it offers. Using lighter core materials might effect the ride too much, and would up the price quite a bit, but lighter composites would be an option to help reduce weight. See above about carbon stringers.

K-Dot.side to side rocker is something that has yet to be done in park skis and has incredible potential imo

Definitely an interesting concept, the only downside I can see is being able to adequately grind the base on the side to side rockered portions, but nonetheless something I want to play around with in the future. Gilson skis is doing a 'soft edge' (I think that's what they call it?), but it extends around the entirety of the ski. Something to check out.

-eREKTion-Also, I like full sidewall but price point is also important.

It will most likely end up as a full cap ski for price point purposes.

SofaKingSickoh and the graphics are just a mirror

Unfortunately we already have a finalized graphic that we will use on it that is not mirrored. I believe we released a teaser of it somewhere but it will get the moon graphic that was created for the 17/18 Vice before we gave it the axe.
Oct 23 2017 1:03PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1629 - Karma: 10,937


Graphics.
Oct 23 2017 3:30PM
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MVoller
Posts: 59 - Karma: 245
hot.pocketSo a slightly wider, updated version of the Vice?
but it will get the moon graphic that was created for the 17/18 Vice before we gave it the axe.

Essentially, yeah a wider, updated vice. And thank you for using the would’ve been vice moon graphic I dig that graphic
Oct 23 2017 3:52PM
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SKRockies
Posts: 606 - Karma: 1,689
MVollerEssentially, yeah a wider, updated vice. And thank you for using the would’ve been vice moon graphic I dig that graphic


Anyone want to remind what the mount point for the vice was? if this is a specific park ski, id really like it being close to if not dead center
Oct 23 2017 5:39PM
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DrZoidberg
Posts: 5675 - Karma: 4,269
I demoed Deathwishes when I was in colorado and really liked them. They held an edge and turned tightly, but they were super poppy, playful and, importantly, not noodles. Longitudinally stuffer, but also torsionally rigid compared to park skis may be a good way to put it.. Those would make a good park ski if you skinny them up and bring the geometry to a bit more centered design. I had tons of fun jumping around on them, but I could easily lean them over hard on the nice, wide slopes they have out there. They also were quick enough to not feel clumsy in tight spaces.

85-90mm waist, 17m turn radius at 170cm. Stiff, mild rocker but not an insane amount that would hinder turning. If you're any bit decent than you can handle a tighter turn radius on common features. I don't know how tighter turn radii never caught on with all this new wave stuff, honestly. It makes everything fun and carving into stuff is super quick and on edge, rather than having to smear turns and lose all your speed since your skis are 22m radius, 100mm waist noodles with flat camber and a lot of rocker. Maybe that wouldn't fit the style, but, whatever. Could be Nu New wave.
Oct 24 2017 9:10PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5240 - Karma: 20,807
a springy buttery ski. Nothing compares to doing a nice butter on a ski with some spring too it and being able to really pop off of the nose/tail. All these super rockered/super soft skis initiate butters ways easier but aren't as fun imo. Also they make ollies harder too.
Oct 24 2017 9:51PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,439
K-Dot.side to side rocker is something that has yet to be done in park skis and has incredible potential imo


Like on the Bent Chetler?
Oct 25 2017 3:58AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,439
SofaKingSicktraditional shape park ski with a great base and some actual stiffness, but my version would be 98 waist. oh and add some nose rocker


You're basically describing the Armada ARVti. The stiffer twin brother of the edollo.
Oct 25 2017 4:00AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9357 - Karma: 61,430
BrawnTrendsYou're basically describing the Armada ARVti. The stiffer twin brother of the edollo.


Haha oh yeah I always wanted that ski..not sure how I forgot about it in this thread. I gotta stop doing meth
Oct 25 2017 7:04AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,439
SofaKingSickHaha oh yeah I always wanted that ski..


Well I have a pair for sale. but I live in Europe.
Oct 25 2017 7:13AM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1629 - Karma: 10,937
How about a narrower PB&J with lighter glass.
Oct 29 2017 1:16AM
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Rum_Ham
Posts: 1449 - Karma: 4,482
-eREKTion-How about a narrower PB&J with lighter glass.


So basically the vice?
Oct 29 2017 8:08PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1629 - Karma: 10,937
Saho3914So basically the vice?


Not nearly as narrow, like a 92-95.
Oct 29 2017 8:13PM
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Swandog7
Posts: 4956 - Karma: 9,023
Is there a timeline to the doing at all? Potentially this season if you're swapping the 17/18 vice graphic on to the 17/18 ???
Oct 30 2017 3:11AM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4233 - Karma: 10,688
Swandog7Is there a timeline to the doing at all? Potentially this season if you're swapping the 17/18 vice graphic on to the 17/18 ???


To everyone else: I'll discuss specific build options this week. To swandog: hoping to launch mid season (potentially) depends on when we complete outstanding projects.
Oct 30 2017 8:42PM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3750 - Karma: 7,847
BrawnTrendsLike on the Bent Chetler?


No, think Surface Labs or DPS spoons. A nice arc or angle of side to side rocker that have edges, not just extended sidewalls like the benchetlers
Oct 30 2017 11:40PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1629 - Karma: 10,937
K-Dot.No, think Surface Labs or DPS spoons. A nice arc or angle of side to side rocker that have edges, not just extended sidewalls like the benchetlers


Like a convex base? How would that even perform in the park? I feel like it'd be really weird on hard snow.
Oct 31 2017 1:07AM
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profa_212
Posts: 8980 - Karma: 36,887
K-Dot.No, think Surface Labs or DPS spoons. A nice arc or angle of side to side rocker that have edges, not just extended sidewalls like the benchetlers


-eREKTion-Like a convex base? How would that even perform in the park? I feel like it'd be really weird on hard snow.

There is a reason they aren't used on anything made for Hardish snow. They will suck ass.

Maybe a version of what atomic has but for the entire rocker portion? Crazy butters but still have an edge
Oct 31 2017 3:21AM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1629 - Karma: 10,937
Profahoben_212There is a reason they aren't used on anything made for Hardish snow. They will suck ass.

Maybe a version of what atomic has but for the entire rocker portion? Crazy butters but still have an edge

I think the new JJ might be a better example of a "butter zone". Not that it matters for me, I butter like an inebriated quadriplegic.
Oct 31 2017 4:30AM
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MVoller
Posts: 59 - Karma: 245
hot.pockethoping to launch mid season (potentially) depends on when we complete outstanding projects.

Launch as in begin production or launch as in able to purchase?
Oct 31 2017 9:41AM
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K-Dot.
Posts: 3750 - Karma: 7,847
Profahoben_212There is a reason they aren't used on anything made for Hardish snow. They will suck ass.

Maybe a version of what atomic has but for the entire rocker portion? Crazy butters but still have an edge


Read my original post dingus. That's exactly what I proposed.

If you've never skied a ski with the technology of side to side rocker then hold the negative comments. I've skied my surface labs in the park plenty and they're surprisingly functional. Make them flat underfoot and skinnier and they could be such a crazy jib ski
Oct 31 2017 12:28PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8980 - Karma: 36,887
K-Dot.Read my original post dingus. That's exactly what I proposed.

If you've never skied a ski with the technology of side to side rocker then hold the negative comments. I've skied my surface labs in the park plenty and they're surprisingly functional. Make them flat underfoot and skinnier and they could be such a crazy jib ski


As long as they aren't beveled underfoot I think it's a good idea. Having a beveled base underfoot would be rough on hardback and would have some weird wear on the base I would imagine from rails.

I also think it would be a really small market though.
Oct 31 2017 12:31PM
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Pataguccimane
Posts: 551 - Karma: 1,199
Was listening to the blister podcast they did with Luke the other day and he mentioned the new park ski (nothing about it just when they were joking around with names) so that got me thinking:

Any updates?
Mar 8 2018 2:01PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4233 - Karma: 10,688
PataguccimaneWas listening to the blister podcast they did with Luke the other day and he mentioned the new park ski (nothing about it just when they were joking around with names) so that got me thinking:

Any updates?


Still working on it, got caught up with skiing trips and working on other specialty projects. Look out for it either late this season or early next season.
Mar 8 2018 5:00PM
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lizard.stuff
Posts: 900 - Karma: 1,284
Would love to see something around 130/95/125 with tons of tip rocker, a little bit of camber, and some tail rocker. Beefy 2.5mm edges that came pre detuned underfoot would be pretty cool too.
Mar 12 2018 11:50PM
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tcurle
Posts: 1257 - Karma: 5,290
Wolf-HowlerWould love to see something around 130/95/125 with tons of tip rocker, a little bit of camber, and some tail rocker. Beefy 2.5mm edges that came pre detuned underfoot would be pretty cool too.


pretty much the pbj
Mar 13 2018 12:34AM
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lizard.stuff
Posts: 900 - Karma: 1,284
tcurlepretty much the pbj


Basically but a little more narrow underfoot and more tip rocker, maybe a little softer too.
Mar 13 2018 9:58AM
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