It looks like you are using an ad blocker. That's okay. Who doesn't? But without advertising revenue, we can't keep making this site awesome. Click the link below for instructions on disabling adblock.
Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post.
Register to become a member today!
J Skis Stephanie Stepp Pro Model Is Pissing People Off
Steve is very well spoken, I can't believe how many people are upset by this, props to you Steve for standing up for yourself and in such a eloquent manner.
iggyskierSomeone actually read what I wrote. Thanks Kevski!
I think those reading this as a personal attack on Steve, including Steve, and specifically the "pink" topsheet are missing the point.
Please read exactly what I wrote in my first post:
"the reason the joke is funny is fundamentally based in misogyny"
There is no personal attack here. I have no personal issue with Steve, the email, the topsheet, or the video (which, for full transparency, I just saw for the first time yesterday). I think all our hilarious. At most, I'm commenting about skiing as a whole.
The edits intent is to satirize women's skiing. It's the shock that some people could find that sexist, context aside, that surprises me. As Kevski said very well - "own it". The videos intent is not to denigrate - it was extremely well done satire - so say that.
My issue is the indignation and gaslighting that has followed suggesting that context precludes people from having opinions that are contrary to the creators intent. That a branding piece satirizing women's skiing comes off as sexist to some people is not surprising - especially since (as this thread is evidence), women's skiing is not viewed in the same light as men's.
I or no one else here is a moral arbiter. That is the point of my response here.
"You don't get the context" does not overrule the offense of other people - regardless of if that offense is right or wrong. The attempts to state that those offended are wrong because "they don't get it" is my issue.
It's ok to acknowledge a different opinion without stating that the opposing party is inherently wrong.
Again, something I stated in my initial post.
"it surprises me that people can't see how it could offend others"
Steve - obviously several very long responses in here - hard for me to find the time to read them fully let alone respond much during a work day. I'm happy to talk more direct or respond later - though honestly, I have no bone to pick here. I wasn't personally offended nor do I believe you are misogynistic - I said I was surprised that you were shocked people could view the video and corresponding ski as such.
Jskis is in a unique position to take these sort of humorous projects - and both you and J are incredibly savvy marketers and creators.
I think you are both adult enough to acknowledge that the joke at the heart of the edit - which was fantastically done satire - could be viewed as sexist by some that watch it. The ski was an extension of that. You surely accepted that when you put both out, some offense might come. That is fine - and if I were you, I wouldn't have changed a thing.
The surprise at the offense, and the refusal to acknowledge that there is any merit to it, context and intent aside, is why I posted. Though obviously I share an unpopular opinion, I felt it should be voiced.
I'll swing back in later - or reach out to me direct - if you feel you would like me to elaborate more.
It sounds like i didnt fully read between the lines or pay close enough attention to your first post, so i apologize for that. I apologize for giving the impression of invalidating peoples' real offense, shock, or disappointment given the situation, that was never my aim.
From the beginning my mind was focused on the hypothetical responses of people if i had immediately accepted their grievances and apologized without explanation. I made a few posts on FB highlighting my sympathy for their disappointment in the email ad, i dont think that made it here to NS, so i probably should have made that more clear.
My problem with "owning" this particular joke, in the minds of the offended, is that itd be essentially admitting fault to something like misogyny. Thats really what warranted my responses. I never had any problems owning jokes before, and still dont, even with the Mean Boys video or the ski, but i needed to make my position clear from the start. I dont want to be owning a misinterpreted joke, thats all.
I also understand your point that jokes are all rooted in some controversial topic and can be reduced to a singular point. In Stephanies case though, i ask myself, "If a girl had made this exact same episode, would it have had the same effect?". Meaning, the satire was intended to be on the behaviors, mannerisms, and culture of womens skiing without explicit denigration of the entire gender.
This is why i still have to stand by my defense of the episode and insist that this particular joke shouldnt be reduced to misogyny. This line of thought applies to all my episodes. Tons of people thought I was making a direct call-out to Magnus in the last Zane episode, you can even hear the kid in the last scene ask "Do those pants help you ski like Magnus?". That couldnt be further from the truth. So maybe on this particular point we may have to agree to disagree, but i do honestly respect you for laying out your position.
If its all out on the table, I guess all thats left to say is, I'm sorry to anyone who was expecting something different from the email chain and marketing. All outspoken people here, i encourage you to email, write, or call ski companies with your input, because they do listen. If you dont speak up then things like this will keep happening and the people on the inside of the jokes will always have the last laugh
SteveSteppYou are completely incorrect, intent has everything to do with it. Intent is what separates true malcontent and true satire. Like i said before, its not my job to control your emotions and perceived outrage. Its entirely up to you to decide whether or not to be offended. You even said it yourself, its not my job to decide what should/shouldnt offend people, that resides with viewer. You have a choice here; you can either choose to parse out the intent of the joke and rationalize away your outrage with the true message, or you can continue to be offended by willingly ignoring it. Its called cognitive dissonance and thats literally the crux of satire.
My point was that in satirizing this content you're contributing to normalizing sexism in the industry. It's not about choosing to be offended. I think there might be a common thread of thought here that satire is ok because its satire. Satire is satire, it critiques things and also normalizes things.
SteveSteppLeave womens skiing alone? As if its an untouchable topic for satire? What makes one part of our sport off-limits but another fair game, and who are you to decide? I said on FB, I hold the same mindset for each episode... All people and facets created equal. Satirizing womens skiing or overly gangster style should be up for criticism equally. By taking womens skiing off the market, I could argue that you are subconsciously admitting that women are so less valuable to our community that they dont deserve to be on the same platform of satirization as men, or any other facet of skiing. If anything, you are not upholding women to the same standard as men, i think theres a word for that.
Curious, what for of "unproductive thinking" and I perpetuating? There was literally nothing about the ski that subverts womens or womens skiing. I made a pact with myself and Saga when i started Trollin 5 years ago that I would never make malicious callouts or content that blatantly hurts anyone. Unless their minds have changed since i released the episode, I had asked directly to Maddie Bowman, Devin Logan, Brita Sig, and a bunch of high caliber girl skiers if they were bothered by it. None of them were.
Are you saying that men's and women's skiing are seen as being equal? It's pretty uneven in a lot of ways I hope you can recognize that, and i appreciate that you talked to "a bunch of high caliber girl skiers" but issues aren't limited to them.
I see this logic often, that the one recognizing an issue is contributing to it because they're acknowledging it instead of ignoring it. I don't think that's very productive.
I know you're not doing anything that "blatantly hurts anyone" but that's sort of my point. All of this comedy is working towards a system that privileges boys over girls in skiing, by normalizing stereotypes n stuff.
SteveSteppI'm sorry but I dont buy into this stuff at all. This is the slippery slope the Lonely mentioned in his post. If you start to control acceptable/unacceptable jokes, we end up with people walking on eggshells and creativity/comedy gets stifled. This idea of implicit bias and misogyny enmeshed in this topsheet or video is just a cop-out argument to make your point seem more valid. "You're being sexist even if you dont know it, and i know this for a fact even though i have no way of proving this". I can turn this idea back around to you on your comment about women not being valid subjects for satire. Even though you think you werent being misogynist, you actually are being a misogynist because its deeply ingrained in your mind. I have no evidence of this, but its true.
This kind of just reads as a weird reductionist alt-right type statement. Defending your threatened creativity to normalized sexism on the grounds of "slippery slopes" and "eggshells" seems strange. If you want to make jokes about an actual issue that a lot of people have to deal with, you might have to walk on eggshells, especially because its an issue that you don't have to deal with.
SteveSteppI always expect criticism of my videos, but i have to stand up for myself against accusations that attack my character.
Didn't mean to attack your character. Sorry !
SteveSteppThe only thing cringey here is the inability to see why context does in fact matter. If a man quotes someone who screams "I hate women" it does not have the same context as him screaming "I hate women" before knocking a girl to the ground. The first scenario has a different context than the second, but he's saying the exact same sentence. If you dont parse out the context, then you are holding the first guy to the same standard as the second, which is completely horrible
A more accurate comparison would be someone screaming "I hate women" and someone quoting the same statement, they would both have the same effect. Not sure why they need to be knocking a girl to the ground. For real though they are two different actions so context doesn't matter. The context would be how the statement is understood because of exterior variables, like time and place, not different actions being understood differently because they're different actions. It's like if I shotgun a beer in a lecture vs at a house party, the action would be understood differently because of the context.
So that's why I say that the context doesn't matter, because I think no matter what it isn't a very cool thing to do.
Sorry Steve didn't mean to attack you ! The collective school of thought in this thread and on Facebook got me pretty upset. Hope you can pick up what i'm putting down so we can all grow together
SteveSteppIf its all out on the table, I guess all thats left to say is, I'm sorry to anyone who was expecting something different from the email chain and marketing. All outspoken people here, i encourage you to email, write, or call ski companies with your input, because they do listen. If you dont speak up then things like this will keep happening and the people on the inside of the jokes will always have the last laugh
Whoops posted before I saw this! I appreciate you leaving it on a productive note, it's important to take action!
GoosefiendsThis kind of just reads as a weird reductionist alt-right type statement. Defending your threatened creativity to normalized sexism on the grounds of "slippery slopes" and "eggshells" seems strange. If you want to make jokes about an actual issue that a lot of people have to deal with, you might have to walk on eggshells, especially because its an issue that you don't have to deal with.
If I see someone looking over the edge of a cliff, psyching themselves up standing on top of a sketchy line, or taking too long at the top of a jump line while I am on the lift, I don't give a flying fuck if the human under that facemask and goggles is a girl, guy, black, white, young, or old, they need to know that they are a fucking pussy and I am so much cooler than them. We are all skiers, we are all sliding down these hills at the mercy of nature, and I think we all need to crack a brew, take a safety meeting, and fucking #MakeSkiersHeckleAgain. And to those who can't see the humor in Stephanie's pro model or the Mean Girls episode of trolling, I really hope that the next time you are on a chairlift you can find the courage to let those below you that they fucking suck. Maybe this is more of a personal takeaway, but I really think that Steve has done a very good job at translating the art of chairlift heckling to the newer, more modern, further reaching medium of the internet and its dank memes. To reiterate what JLev so eloquently has stated, it's just skiing.
AuzySteve is very well spoken, I can't believe how many people are upset by this, props to you Steve for standing up for yourself and in such a eloquent manner.
Never have so many words meant so little. Seriously Steve's comments here are just bullshit fluffed up with nice sounding words, it's all backpedaling and damage control. The whole thing is dumb. The topsheet is cool and my girlfriend likes it, but not because of the cringeworthy trollin whatever series that it's based on.
GoosefiendsMy point was that in satirizing this content you're contributing to normalizing sexism in the industry. It's not about choosing to be offended. I think there might be a common thread of thought here that satire is ok because its satire. Satire is satire, it critiques things and also normalizes things.
You're speaking in the most broad and vague terms imaginable. Treating women the same way i treated contest skiers or gangster skiers immediately becomes sexist because they have a vagina? You are walking a razors edge with no room to stand on. Saying satire is bad because it "critiques things and normalizes things" lends no information to the discussion at hand, and plays into scenario of "Your comedy offended me in a vague way, therefore it must be rooted sexism and it must be stopped". This is the epitome of the slippery slope. You're not just taking aim at my content, but the medium itself.
GoosefiendsAre you saying that men's and women's skiing are seen as being equal? It's pretty uneven in a lot of ways I hope you can recognize that, and i appreciate that you talked to "a bunch of high caliber girl skiers" but issues aren't limited to them.
Saying "ts pretty uneven in alot of ways" is again extremely vague and you havent provided any examples of such disparity. If you have something to say, it helps your argument to express your concerns clearly instead of casting shadows of mysterious problems that you have no explanation for. You are asking me to recognize ways in which men and women arent equal, but havent given any supporting evidence.
Speaking to high caliber women skiers is the best demographic to get insight from. Of female participants they have the highest stake in our sport, they have seen and experienced the industry, and they were the people characterized in the video. Clearly if there was any female demographic to speak to, it'd be them. Just curious, who would have been a better representation?
GoosefiendsI see this logic often, that the one recognizing an issue is contributing to it because they're acknowledging it instead of ignoring it. I don't think that's very productive.
Your solution to the problem is to literally ignore it. What kind of response is that, what does that even mean? This logic just lends credence to what I said earlier, that you are actually being sexist by treating women with less respect than men. That their place in our sport is so lost, so damaged, that the best recourse is to ignore them. Thats unbelievably disingenuous. "Man, women are being treated unfairly. We better ignore it until things smooth over".
You are suggesting that even by using satire as a means of recognition is a worse solution than ignoring it. Thats some alt-right talk if i've ever heard it.
On the contrary, I've seen your logic before. Becoming outraged over something and not offering solutions, thats not very productive.
GoosefiendsI know you're not doing anything that "blatantly hurts anyone" but that's sort of my point. All of this comedy is working towards a system that privileges boys over girls in skiing, by normalizing stereotypes n stuff.
All of this comedy. The mountains of comedy i've done about women. Five years of satirizing women. For a second there i thought you were going to mention the 15 out of 16 episodes I did about just men.
I did one single episode about womens skiing. One. In that one episode i'd love to hear what you think explicitly or implicitly pushed the privileges of men over women. Answering, "well you poked fun at them, so its sexist" is not an acceptable answer. You're chasing ghosts.
Again, you are speaking in such ambiguous terms that its only furthering my assumption that you arent actually standing for anything other than to broadcast to the world that you're more righteous and virtuous than your peers.
Satire overemphasizes stereotypes to eventually shatter them. If you want a medium that truly normalizes stereotypes you should be looking at things portray stereotypes as real. This is why your argument against satire will never hold up.
GoosefiendsThis kind of just reads as a weird reductionist alt-right type statement. Defending your threatened creativity to normalized sexism on the grounds of "slippery slopes" and "eggshells" seems strange. If you want to make jokes about an actual issue that a lot of people have to deal with, you might have to walk on eggshells, especially because its an issue that you don't have to deal with.
With this comment I'm going to congratulate you for not only making my blood boil more than literally any previous post on this site, but for also demonstrating how astoundingly misinformed you are and your utter lack of perspective on this topic. This is where conversations go to die.
You have almost perfectly demonstrated Godwins Law, and the thread is only at 3 pages, thats actually incredible. I could write 10 pages about your accusation of my statements being alt-right, and i just might, but for the sake of time and readability, i'll just say this: You played your ace card with that comment. You just signaled to everyone here that you have no intent to have a reasoned conversation, and anyone who has a dissenting opinion is eligible to be branded with the pejorative of your worst enemies. Its clear now that it doesnt matter to you what my line of reasoning is, or my defense might be, its all just nazi talk you. Your perspective is the most righteous of all.
I made a comment to someone on the FB thread who was basically telling me what i can and cant make jokes about. If theres one thing that i consider unacceptable its when people tell me what i can and cant joke about. I make conscious decisions about every episode i make, and, like i stated before, i make sure that each episode is never malicious. I already walk on eggshells when crafting them, so this just highlights the point of the slippery slope. Now i have to be even more careful with each joke because people like you might take a self-righteous stand against it? Sorry, not going to happen.
The issue of women in skiing may not affect the same way as a girl, but it does affect me. I want to do anything and everything i can for my female friends and counterparts on the hill. Even if its something as small as a cameo by Maddie Bowman, my job now in this industry is to do something special and help people as much as i can. The girls who i ski with and talk to are mature enough to see that this episode and Stephanie ski are beyond these naive, surface level, arguments and see that they are just as big of a part of our community as La Familia, contest skiers, or anyone else i satirized.
You can make anything racist, sexist, or homophobic if you stare at it long enough.
GoosefiendsA more accurate comparison would be someone screaming "I hate women" and someone quoting the same statement, they would both have the same effect. Not sure why they need to be knocking a girl to the ground. For real though they are two different actions so context doesn't matter. The context would be how the statement is understood because of exterior variables, like time and place, not different actions being understood differently because they're different actions. It's like if I shotgun a beer in a lecture vs at a house party, the action would be understood differently because of the context.
So that's why I say that the context doesn't matter, because I think no matter what it isn't a very cool thing to do.
Maybe i did a bad job explaining but the first example the first guy screaming "i hate women" is quoting someone else. The guy screaming the same thing is about to push a women. So the 2nd guy has a motive whereas the first guy is quoting someone else. So maybe we are on the same there, but this is the crux of my defense. Understanding the context of the joke and ski is imperative to understanding why i felt misogyny and sexism were unwarranted claims.
GoosefiendsThe collective school of thought in this thread and on Facebook got me pretty upset. Hope you can pick up what i'm putting down so we can all grow together
Again, not offering any solutions to these supposed problems.
In summary, it was probably a misjudged joke from J and Steve. That doesn't mean it's not funny but timing is the most important part of the joke. Maybe if they dropped these along with a new Stephanie video then they'd have avoided some of the confused screeching.
That said, I don't think people understand the satire of the Mean Boys video. It's making fun of the fact that female free skiing is divided into two groups; gnarly skiers and girls who skip features, don't grab, and don't throw anything progressive. Stephanie is the former, she's the entrenched elite of female freeskiing afraid of progression because she can't hang. Lindsay Vaughn is the opposite, she fucking sends. The pink ski isn't making fun of female skiers it's making fun of Stephanie's. Don't be a Stephanie.
Steve I don't know what to say! You misinterpreted everything i've said, I think you're taking things too personally and getting upset. Never called you alt-right, just the reasoning in that statement was reminiscent of certain arguments. Never said we should ignore sexism, i was saying that's the logic that was articulated in your prior post.
Again i'm speaking in vague terms for a reason, and I think that you're not picking up what i'm putting down my man. Point is, sexism is a system, not a thought. Things contribute to it and work within it, and it's always operated on this system so injustices go unnoticed, because they're normal. The point is that this joke works towards this system. The terms are vague because i'm acknowledging a problem larger than this situation, and looking what this performance is contributing to. Working towards a solution would be to not normalize sexism, instead make actual moves towards a more accessible and supportive space for people. I think it's important to acknowledge that misogyny is built into skiing culture and start by trying to talk about situations like this and think about how maybe it's not working towards a productive place. So step one: acknowledge unproductive thought that is enmeshed into the culture, and talking about it. Knowledge is power !
Steve I want you to know that i'm only responding to those words you're posting. I can't really respond to all of that because it's not going to go anywhere. I really don't want to be rude but like just look at the words really carefully because things like "this reads as" is really important in separating you from your forum post.
I'm sorry Steve ! Let's get on the same page here !
GoosefiendsSteve I don't know what to say! You misinterpreted everything i've said, I think you're taking things too personally and getting upset. Never called you alt-right, just the reasoning in that statement was reminiscent of certain arguments. Never said we should ignore sexism, i was saying that's the logic that was articulated in your prior post.
Again i'm speaking in vague terms for a reason, and I think that you're not picking up what i'm putting down my man. Point is, sexism is a system, not a thought. Things contribute to it and work within it, and it's always operated on this system so injustices go unnoticed, because they're normal. The point is that this joke works towards this system. The terms are vague because i'm acknowledging a problem larger than this situation, and looking what this performance is contributing to. Working towards a solution would be to not normalize sexism, instead make actual moves towards a more accessible and supportive space for people. I think it's important to acknowledge that misogyny is built into skiing culture and start by trying to talk about situations like this and think about how maybe it's not working towards a productive place. So step one: acknowledge unproductive thought that is enmeshed into the culture, and talking about it. Knowledge is power !
Steve I want you to know that i'm only responding to those words you're posting. I can't really respond to all of that because it's not going to go anywhere. I really don't want to be rude but like just look at the words really carefully because things like "this reads as" is really important in separating you from your forum post.
I'm sorry Steve ! Let's get on the same page here !
So you get called out, and now you wanna act like "naw man it's all cool and the earth is round and we're just drifting through time bro."
I dont think anything was misinterpreted, you literally said alt-right in a form of your own defense to "bring down the man" and protest without any notion to understand what's happening here. I'll restate what I said earlier, this thread was a good conversation until you wanted to jump at the first sight of potential blasphemy and compare items as racist, alt-right, and misogynistic. You are not contributing anything at this point, you are fueling a fire that was previously being cooled down because users were commenting to get a focal understanding and see opinions from the other side.
You purposely being vague now contributes nothing to any of your arguments because what you're telling all of us is to have a 'free for all' with your comments, which is what I'm doing now. You can't make these statements and call them vague afterwards to minimize your actions. It doesn't work like that.
I think we can all agree to disagree but your comments have been the most hateful of all and ESPECIALLY exclusive to women. You clearly want us to be treated so specially that we are not allowed to have our own understanding of ourselves in the industry and that's wrong. Chicks who rip got there because they worked for it - blood, sweat, and tears. And chicks who are learning have them as an example to follow BUT that does not limit progressing females to following male skiers and aspiring to be as great as they are as well. And to bring back the point of this whole thread specifically, girls can equally admire a male on pink skis that are non-gender specific as comedy.
You want equality right? How about it starting with you, and you not minimizing our efforts by trying to baby us into a protected category where everything must be fragile or else we will stomp our feet and cry. I do not want that for my fellow girls, stop trying to join in holding us back by acting like it's for the best.
We win comps, we shred with the boys, and we can take a hard fall. But thank you for your concern about how weak we are as a group and/or gender that we can't step up ourselves :)
TheSmokinLSo you get called out, and now you wanna act like "naw man it's all cool and the earth is round and we're just drifting through time bro."
I dont think anything was misinterpreted, you literally said alt-right in a form of your own defense to "bring down the man" and protest without any notion to understand what's happening here. I'll restate what I said earlier, this thread was a good conversation until you wanted to jump at the first sight of potential blasphemy and compare items as racist, alt-right, and misogynistic. You are not contributing anything at this point, you are fueling a fire that was previously being cooled down because users were commenting to get a focal understanding and see opinions from the other side.
You purposely being vague now contributes nothing to any of your arguments because what you're telling all of us is to have a 'free for all' with your comments, which is what I'm doing now. You can't make these statements and call them vague afterwards to minimize your actions. It doesn't work like that.
I think we can all agree to disagree but your comments have been the most hateful of all and ESPECIALLY exclusive to women. You clearly want us to be treated so specially that we are not allowed to have our own understanding of ourselves in the industry and that's wrong. Chicks who rip got there because they worked for it - blood, sweat, and tears. And chicks who are learning have them as an example to follow BUT that does not limit progressing females to following male skiers and aspiring to be as great as they are as well. And to bring back the point of this whole thread specifically, girls can equally admire a male on pink skis that are non-gender specific as comedy.
You want equality right? How about it starting with you, and you not minimizing our efforts by trying to baby us into a protected category where everything must be fragile or else we will stomp our feet and cry. I do not want that for my fellow girls, stop trying to join in holding us back by acting like it's for the best.
We win comps, we shred with the boys, and we can take a hard fall. But thank you for your concern about how weak we are as a group and/or gender that we can't step up ourselves :)
GoosefiendsSteve I don't know what to say! You misinterpreted everything i've said, I think you're taking things too personally and getting upset. Never called you alt-right, just the reasoning in that statement was reminiscent of certain arguments. Never said we should ignore sexism, i was saying that's the logic that was articulated in your prior post.
Again i'm speaking in vague terms for a reason, and I think that you're not picking up what i'm putting down my man. Point is, sexism is a system, not a thought. Things contribute to it and work within it, and it's always operated on this system so injustices go unnoticed, because they're normal. The point is that this joke works towards this system. The terms are vague because i'm acknowledging a problem larger than this situation, and looking what this performance is contributing to. Working towards a solution would be to not normalize sexism, instead make actual moves towards a more accessible and supportive space for people. I think it's important to acknowledge that misogyny is built into skiing culture and start by trying to talk about situations like this and think about how maybe it's not working towards a productive place. So step one: acknowledge unproductive thought that is enmeshed into the culture, and talking about it. Knowledge is power !
Steve I want you to know that i'm only responding to those words you're posting. I can't really respond to all of that because it's not going to go anywhere. I really don't want to be rude but like just look at the words really carefully because things like "this reads as" is really important in separating you from your forum post.
I'm sorry Steve ! Let's get on the same page here !
Keep backpedaling your bike right back into the grave you dug yourself.
Does anyone else skip over posts that are longer than a single paragraph? We should stop the arguing. This isn't about you or me. This is about getting Stephanie the attention she deserves by voting her as women skier of the year for the Powder Awards! Go and write her in!!!
Do your duty and support feminism, support grabs, support transgender progression!!!
TheSmokinLSo you get called out, and now you wanna act like "naw man it's all cool and the earth is round and we're just drifting through time bro."
I dont think anything was misinterpreted, you literally said alt-right in a form of your own defense to "bring down the man" and protest without any notion to understand what's happening here. I'll restate what I said earlier, this thread was a good conversation until you wanted to jump at the first sight of potential blasphemy and compare items as racist, alt-right, and misogynistic. You are not contributing anything at this point, you are fueling a fire that was previously being cooled down because users were commenting to get a focal understanding and see opinions from the other side.
You purposely being vague now contributes nothing to any of your arguments because what you're telling all of us is to have a 'free for all' with your comments, which is what I'm doing now. You can't make these statements and call them vague afterwards to minimize your actions. It doesn't work like that.
I think we can all agree to disagree but your comments have been the most hateful of all and ESPECIALLY exclusive to women. You clearly want us to be treated so specially that we are not allowed to have our own understanding of ourselves in the industry and that's wrong. Chicks who rip got there because they worked for it - blood, sweat, and tears. And chicks who are learning have them as an example to follow BUT that does not limit progressing females to following male skiers and aspiring to be as great as they are as well. And to bring back the point of this whole thread specifically, girls can equally admire a male on pink skis that are non-gender specific as comedy.
You want equality right? How about it starting with you, and you not minimizing our efforts by trying to baby us into a protected category where everything must be fragile or else we will stomp our feet and cry. I do not want that for my fellow girls, stop trying to join in holding us back by acting like it's for the best.
We win comps, we shred with the boys, and we can take a hard fall. But thank you for your concern about how weak we are as a group and/or gender that we can't step up ourselves :)
I think that this is also misinterpreted in a lot of ways.
But I have a solution! If anyone is actually interested in this topic I urge you to you read into a contemporary area of feminist theory looking at "ironic sexism" or "hipster sexism," agree with it or not but you'll understand the prevailing view and alternative view of my argument. I think that there's is a very large gap between what i'm putting down and what everyone's picking up.
TheSmokinLI think we can all agree to disagree but your comments have been the most hateful of all and ESPECIALLY exclusive to women. You clearly want us to be treated so specially that we are not allowed to have our own understanding of ourselves in the industry and that's wrong. Chicks who rip got there because they worked for it - blood, sweat, and tears. And chicks who are learning have them as an example to follow BUT that does not limit progressing females to following male skiers and aspiring to be as great as they are as well. And to bring back the point of this whole thread specifically, girls can equally admire a male on pink skis that are non-gender specific as comedy.
You want equality right? How about it starting with you, and you not minimizing our efforts by trying to baby us into a protected category where everything must be fragile or else we will stomp our feet and cry. I do not want that for my fellow girls, stop trying to join in holding us back by acting like it's for the best.
We win comps, we shred with the boys, and we can take a hard fall. But thank you for your concern about how weak we are as a group and/or gender that we can't step up ourselves :)
Damn. This website has gotten pretty toxic. Not very much conceding to differing viewpoints and lots of over-the-top defense. The topsheets are weird. Basically just making fun of what the majority of girls like. Nobody is trying to say J Skis hates women, but the vibe is odd. If I was J, I would have looked at them and thought "These aren't funny enough to warrant the inevitable backlash". Just remember, these issues don't exist in a vacuum and obsessing over context is ignoring that fact. Be kind and civil folks! We're all skiers and need to stay together in these divided times.
GoosefiendsI think that this is also misinterpreted in a lot of ways.
But I have a solution! If anyone is actually interested in this topic I urge you to you read into a contemporary area of feminist theory looking at "ironic sexism" or "hipster sexism," agree with it or not but you'll understand the prevailing view and alternative view of my argument. I think that there's is a very large gap between what i'm putting down and what everyone's picking up.
The reason for the "gap" is because you're not actually "putting down" anything. People like you are the actual scum of the earth, and here's why. You take advantage of a platform for selfish personal gains. You pretend to advocate for feminism because you "disagree with like, the system, man," when in reality, you don't know a god damn fucking thing about the oppression of women. You're just regurgitating shit you've heard other people say in more appropriate contexts because you didn't understand it then, and you don't understand it now. That's why you're refusing to back your claims and simply linking us to articles of shit you've read that you think is relevant. If you're going to make a claim, you better be ready to defend it. YOU are putting women into a box and speaking for us because you don't think we can speak for ourselves. You're leaching on the opportunity to make yourself appear intelligent, involved, righteous, proactive, etc., without actually having to be any of those things. If you truly care about feminism and gender equality, get off your fucking pedestal and DO SOMETHING instead of talking a bunch of nonsense on the internet. That doesn't get anybody anywhere, especially when you clearly have spent less than 30 seconds of your life trying to understand the problem you're seemingly so whole-heartedly engaged in. You want to point fingers at everyone else and say that they're the problem without taking any responsibility, or even considering the fact that god forbid you may somehow be involved. If enough women truly feel that Steve and J are perpetuating sexism within the ski industry, then they will speak for themselves. In the meantime, try to do something productive with your meaningless existence and get out of our way.
Oh and to shed some light on something you'll never understand on a personal level, Steve is courageous and cares enough to try his absolute best to represent his true self and his ideas in a public setting, and he'll continue to defend himself until he's sure that people who are capable of understanding him will understand him. The only reason he does what he does is because he cares, a LOT. All of this is more than your poor parents will ever be able to say for you.
FBGMThe reason for the "gap" is because you're not actually "putting down" anything. People like you are the actual scum of the earth, and here's why. You take advantage of a platform for selfish personal gains. You pretend to advocate for feminism because you "disagree with like, the system, man," when in reality, you don't know a god damn fucking thing about the oppression of women. You're just regurgitating shit you've heard other people say in more appropriate contexts because you didn't understand it then, and you don't understand it now. That's why you're refusing to back your claims and simply linking us to articles of shit you've read that you think is relevant. If you're going to make a claim, you better be ready to defend it. YOU are putting women into a box and speaking for us because you don't think we can speak for ourselves. You're leaching on the opportunity to make yourself appear intelligent, involved, righteous, proactive, etc., without actually having to be any of those things. If you truly care about feminism and gender equality, get off your fucking pedestal and DO SOMETHING instead of talking a bunch of nonsense on the internet. That doesn't get anybody anywhere, especially when you clearly have spent less than 30 seconds of your life trying to understand the problem you're seemingly so whole-heartedly engaged in. You want to point fingers at everyone else and say that they're the problem without taking any responsibility, or even considering the fact that god forbid you may somehow be involved. If enough women truly feel that Steve and J are perpetuating sexism within the ski industry, then they will speak for themselves. In the meantime, try to do something productive with your meaningless existence and get out of our way.
Oh and to shed some light on something you'll never understand on a personal level, Steve is courageous and cares enough to try his absolute best to represent his true self and his ideas in a public setting, and he'll continue to defend himself until he's sure that people who are capable of understanding him will understand him. The only reason he does what he does is because he cares, a LOT. All of this is more than your poor parents will ever be able to say for you.
FBGMThe reason for the "gap" is because you're not actually "putting down" anything. People like you are the actual scum of the earth, and here's why. You take advantage of a platform for selfish personal gains. You pretend to advocate for feminism because you "disagree with like, the system, man," when in reality, you don't know a god damn fucking thing about the oppression of women. You're just regurgitating shit you've heard other people say in more appropriate contexts because you didn't understand it then, and you don't understand it now. That's why you're refusing to back your claims and simply linking us to articles of shit you've read that you think is relevant. If you're going to make a claim, you better be ready to defend it. YOU are putting women into a box and speaking for us because you don't think we can speak for ourselves. You're leaching on the opportunity to make yourself appear intelligent, involved, righteous, proactive, etc., without actually having to be any of those things. If you truly care about feminism and gender equality, get off your fucking pedestal and DO SOMETHING instead of talking a bunch of nonsense on the internet. That doesn't get anybody anywhere, especially when you clearly have spent less than 30 seconds of your life trying to understand the problem you're seemingly so whole-heartedly engaged in. You want to point fingers at everyone else and say that they're the problem without taking any responsibility, or even considering the fact that god forbid you may somehow be involved. If enough women truly feel that Steve and J are perpetuating sexism within the ski industry, then they will speak for themselves. In the meantime, try to do something productive with your meaningless existence and get out of our way.
Oh and to shed some light on something you'll never understand on a personal level, Steve is courageous and cares enough to try his absolute best to represent his true self and his ideas in a public setting, and he'll continue to defend himself until he's sure that people who are capable of understanding him will understand him. The only reason he does what he does is because he cares, a LOT. All of this is more than your poor parents will ever be able to say for you.
FunnelGodHola here's my opinion as a pretty informed ski chick. I'd like to point out that literally no one is mad at the design of the top sheet. Live, laugh, cork ~unfollow~ is probably the best new phrase I've heard this month. The trollin' videos and the skis themselves are funny. It was the branding and roll out of the design that were the problem. The things that bothered me most occurred after some of the comments were made.
1) Jason kept making pretty harsh and aggressive comments towards some girls only to delete them after an hour or so. If you're gonna make a statement - make it. His attitude did not play into the "it's just skiing" vibe at all so how can he expect fans to do the same?
2) J deleted all negative comments from insta
3) Stated that the root of this design was to highlight the shitty women's gear graphics typical to the industry. So instead of doing something positive about it they made a joke instead?!
4) I had a lot of respect for the way Steve responded to a comment with a 'I see the misunderstanding, here was our vision'. Although I don't agree with him it was a very respectful way to handle it.
5) BUT THEN Steve made an insta with hashtags #feminism and #triggered. Calling someone "Triggered" to me is the most pussy move you can make when someone challenges your opinion. Name calling solves nothing.
6) Steve stated that the skis "weren't marketed to females" but the title of the email was First Pro Model Women's Ski ... ???
7) The joke would have honestly been funnier if they left out the female pronouns and such. It takes the edge off and helps people not in on the joke get that it's a joke without stating the joke itself. Title of email could have been "worlds prettiest ski by the worlds prettiest skier" or something that might be even more fitting to the character? World's best kinda-female skier?
8. The comments made by many parties (Jlev included) obviously did not read the comments from any of the girls because they go off on shit about women's specific tech and flex and yadda yadda which has been made clear in every way possible that is not the problem. Girls who ski at the level that J skis make skis for are not ignorant to the ski tech they use nor do we want a special ski.
9) Most of the girls state they are disappointed not offended. Disappointed because they like and respect the company. The silliness of J skis is the best part so personally when I got an email with the First Pro Model Women's Ski I was pretty lit. I thought if anyone can make a girls graphic fun and not a pink fart it will be J skis. Girls like the witty sayings on the base and the funny graphics on top. But opening it to see a guy in a wig? Plz
10) J changed the caption on the original fb and insta posts and the website to state that Stephanie was Steve so new people to the convo don't see where the joke got lost. If this info was provided originally would there even be a fuss?
Final - They branded it seriously but took it as a joke. No matter what the context of the joke is, this isn't good business.
> Creates a 13 minute long video trolling female skiing
> Surprised when his j-skis (more like JOKE-of-a-ski AMIRITE?) receives hate.
??? Steve is obviously using this publicity to promote his alt-right philosophies and trying to drive newschoolers into becoming an ultra-conservative right winged WHITE misogynistic community.
Yung_GnarleyDamn. This website has gotten pretty toxic. Not very much conceding to differing viewpoints and lots of over-the-top defense. The topsheets are weird. Basically just making fun of what the majority of girls like. Nobody is trying to say J Skis hates women, but the vibe is odd. If I was J, I would have looked at them and thought "These aren't funny enough to warrant the inevitable backlash". Just remember, these issues don't exist in a vacuum and obsessing over context is ignoring that fact. Be kind and civil folks! We're all skiers and need to stay together in these divided times.
Don't get me wrong I love this community, but I feel like toxicity has always been a part of it. On the topic of j-skis making fun of what girls like, its just humor. Obviously that is a weak argument but the majority of humor is making fun of someone or something. As society we have to decide where we draw the line for what is an acceptable attack and what is not.
Rascist jokes? Not okay. Making a fake ski topsheet for a fake character from a parody video that touched on some important issues in the women's ski industry? I don't see what's wrong with that.
As the smokinL has said a few times now it's fairly hypocritical to say that this should offend women, and that there's only a certain way to think about it. It's also kinda hypocritical to say a pink topsheet is what "the majority of girls like. Maybe some do, maybe some don't. I doubt that the majority of women only like pink skis with cursive though.
Also, I understand what your getting at by saying that people are obsessing over context, but you have to use context when deciding what is okay and what is not okay. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people shouting at each other.
FunnelGodHola here's my opinion as a pretty informed ski chick. I'd like to point out that literally no one is mad at the design of the top sheet. Live, laugh, cork ~unfollow~ is probably the best new phrase I've heard this month. The trollin' videos and the skis themselves are funny. It was the branding and roll out of the design that were the problem. The things that bothered me most occurred after some of the comments were made.
1) Jason kept making pretty harsh and aggressive comments towards some girls only to delete them after an hour or so. If you're gonna make a statement - make it. His attitude did not play into the "it's just skiing" vibe at all so how can he expect fans to do the same?
2) J deleted all negative comments from insta
3) Stated that the root of this design was to highlight the shitty women's gear graphics typical to the industry. So instead of doing something positive about it they made a joke instead?!
4) I had a lot of respect for the way Steve responded to a comment with a 'I see the misunderstanding, here was our vision'. Although I don't agree with him it was a very respectful way to handle it.
5) BUT THEN Steve made an insta with hashtags #feminism and #triggered. Calling someone "Triggered" to me is the most pussy move you can make when someone challenges your opinion. Name calling solves nothing.
6) Steve stated that the skis "weren't marketed to females" but the title of the email was First Pro Model Women's Ski ... ???
7) The joke would have honestly been funnier if they left out the female pronouns and such. It takes the edge off and helps people not in on the joke get that it's a joke without stating the joke itself. Title of email could have been "worlds prettiest ski by the worlds prettiest skier" or something that might be even more fitting to the character? World's best kinda-female skier?
8. The comments made by many parties (Jlev included) obviously did not read the comments from any of the girls because they go off on shit about women's specific tech and flex and yadda yadda which has been made clear in every way possible that is not the problem. Girls who ski at the level that J skis make skis for are not ignorant to the ski tech they use nor do we want a special ski.
9) Most of the girls state they are disappointed not offended. Disappointed because they like and respect the company. The silliness of J skis is the best part so personally when I got an email with the First Pro Model Women's Ski I was pretty lit. I thought if anyone can make a girls graphic fun and not a pink fart it will be J skis. Girls like the witty sayings on the base and the funny graphics on top. But opening it to see a guy in a wig? Plz
10) J changed the caption on the original fb and insta posts and the website to state that Stephanie was Steve so new people to the convo don't see where the joke got lost. If this info was provided originally would there even be a fuss?
Final - They branded it seriously but took it as a joke. No matter what the context of the joke is, this isn't good business.
Quoting for emphasis. Thanks for taking the time to write this.
I think it's funny that more dudes are upset in this thread than chicks. The topsheet are funny. Steve is funny. Who gives a shit, I'm still gonna buy on3ps.
DaphI think it's funny that more dudes are upset in this thread than chicks. The topsheet are funny. Steve is funny. Who gives a shit, I'm still gonna buy on3ps.
That is because there are like 3 active girls on NS.
I really like Steve, he's a really good skier but I really disagree with him trying to bring PC into skiing... I kinda think it makes him seem like a really big pussy that he's trying to fit in with today's PC world.
natetncI really like Steve, he's a really good skier but I really disagree with him trying to bring PC into skiing... I kinda think it makes him seem like a really big pussy that he's trying to fit in with today's PC world.
I can't tell if this is really bad sarcasm or if you're just stupid.
natetncI really like Steve, he's a really good skier but I really disagree with him trying to bring PC into skiing... I kinda think it makes him seem like a really big pussy that he's trying to fit in with today's PC world.
AuzySteve is very well spoken, I can't believe how many people are upset by this, props to you Steve for standing up for yourself and in such a eloquent manner.
Honestly, he killed this debate. Well done. Looking only at the act-in-itself is only half of the equation. Intent is equally important and is often what separates a vicious act from a virtuous one. Props to Steve for recognizing this and not backing down.
