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Vegas: The US is Not Mature Enough for Guns

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robotdna
Posts: 1232 - Karma: 2,959
Opinion post:

The current crisis makes me question my beliefs about firearm laws. I was raised in the Midwest and support guns. I think firearms are neat and target shooting is a lot of fun. Personally I feel safer with weapons, but I don't need to have them to feel safe. Martial arts can do this too. However; I have to wonder if it's really the right school of thought. Many countries have very strict limits on firearms or outright ban citizens from having them and appear to have low crime rates. I am not sure the US's system is fit for citizens to have firearms. We do not have good enough policies in place to prevent the wrong individuals obtaining weapons. Mental care here is poor. The argument will always exist that criminals will get guns if they want them and this I agree with. Yet, what happened in Vegas was not by the hand of someone that we would objectively assume is a "criminal" until it was too late. Until we are able to care for individuals affected by mental illness, provide more in-depth background checks, and facilitate better education and opportunity in regions heavily affected by crime, I don't think the US is mature enough to handle firearms.

Feel free to retort. I am on the boundary of conservative and liberal thought processes so nothing is inherently unwelcome.
Oct 2 2017 12:12PM
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JWillySkeez
Posts: 424 - Karma: 1,096
The inherent problem with the situation is that people can't seem to grasp the fact that this should not be a matter of political discrepancy, rather it should just be looked at as a universal problem with a not so obvious solution
Oct 5 2017 1:02AM
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Lonely
Posts: 6741 - Karma: 61,665
Alright so I'm going to throw some opinions and hypothetical out their. Don't get too triggered.

The argument of object x kills people too so we need to ban that is asinine. Let me make a comparison. Nukes don't actually kill people, so any normal country should be allowed to have nukes. That sounds crazy, because even if a nuclear missile doesn't kill anyone by itself, it's only purpose is to destroy and kill. Because of that we do not let certain countries have them and have and possibly will enter into a conflict to remove such objects. The purpose of a gun is to inflict harm. Whether that be a coyote, deer, target or person. That is the purpose of a gun. It cannot be compared to a car or a spoon because they have very different purposes.

Also, the argument that we shouldn't do anything because criminals will get them is a weak argument. The shooter reportedly did not show signs of mental illness and according to what I heard obtained the guns legally. You don't need to ban all guns and I don't think you should. What you could do is make them very expensive and make the penalty for any illegal actions involving firearms very stiff. If someone is on the edge and can easily obtain guns at a relatively low risk, there is nothing stopping them. If they are on the edge but guns are extremley expensive, require a driver's ed like course to get them (lasting for many months before you can actuallty own it and take it home), require biannual checks with criminal penalties for misuse it might just be enough to deter the next mass shooter. We more or less do this for vehicles, why can't we do it for firearms?

Or it might not be enough, but it's worth a shot.

Mental health is an invisible killer that should be dealt with, but we also have to focus on the very physical tool that is used as the weapon of poor mental health.
Oct 5 2017 2:15AM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
Also I noticed that Jimmy Kimmel called them 'high powered rifles.' Some of what he was shooting might've been .308 which is more powerful, but the typical .223 round isn't "high powered." That's why lots of people don't use .223 to shoot deer. You have to have good placement, while with a .30-06 you don't need the best placement..
Oct 5 2017 9:54AM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
Step in the right direction?
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/speaker-ryan-opens-door-action-bump-stocks-n807996
Oct 5 2017 1:24PM
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icydope
Posts: 450 - Karma: -2
)

**This post was edited on Oct 8th 2017 at 8:49:30am
Oct 5 2017 1:43PM
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BrawnTrends
Posts: 1102 - Karma: 2,438
https://www.newschoolers.com/forum/thread/854980/Favorite-Conspiracies-
Oct 5 2017 3:10PM
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Auzy
Posts: 569 - Karma: 1,827
I feel like a regulation on bump stocks could be a good step. Perhaps making them a class III item?
Oct 5 2017 10:50PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
lol @ people quoting me. This recent shooting will have 0 affect on guns laws. dont tread.
Oct 6 2017 12:52PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,678
this whole thing is just a non stop parade of erratic dipshits making terrible arguments on both sides. might as well just rename your country "Africa 2.0"
Oct 6 2017 12:55PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51644 - Karma: 162,266
.frenchylol @ people quoting me. This recent shooting will have 0 affect on guns laws. dont tread.


Yeah because stupid americans like you care more about your toys than the country. "Don't like take my freedoms away!"

God bless us or whatever.
Oct 6 2017 1:02PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
GORILLAWALLACEthis whole thing is just a non stop parade of erratic dipshits making terrible arguments on both sides. might as well just rename your country "Africa 2.0"


you might as well go play in traffic
Oct 6 2017 1:02PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
theabortionatorYeah because stupid americans like you care more about your toys than the country. "Don't like take my freedoms away!"

God bless us or whatever.


silent majority, bitch #2A #DontTreadOnMe #YEEYEE
Oct 6 2017 1:03PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51644 - Karma: 162,266
.frenchysilent majority, bitch #2A #DontTreadOnMe #YEEYEE


#gunsarekewl #omglookatme #smalldickbiggun #yolo
Oct 6 2017 1:05PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
theabortionator#gunsarekewl #omglookatme #smalldickbiggun #yolo


where is the correlation between firearms and small dicks? sorry you have mental problems and can't purchase an assault rifle, you're missing out.
Oct 6 2017 1:11PM
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coolflash8
Posts: 3171 - Karma: 2,048
theabortionator#gunsarekewl #omglookatme #smalldickbiggun #yolo


i am disappoint rusty
Oct 6 2017 1:11PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51644 - Karma: 162,266
coolflash8i am disappoint rusty


Meh, just tired of hearing "Look at me and my guns" every time a bunch of people get shot. #redwhiteandblueeee #thesecolorsdontrun
Oct 6 2017 1:19PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,678
theabortionatorMeh, just tired of hearing "Look at me and my guns" every time a bunch of people get shot. #redwhiteandblueeee #thesecolorsdontrun


u don't get it bro, if everyone has guns, nobody gets shot.


ever
Oct 6 2017 1:24PM
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coolflash8
Posts: 3171 - Karma: 2,048
theabortionatorMeh, just tired of hearing "Look at me and my guns" every time a bunch of people get shot. #redwhiteandblueeee #thesecolorsdontrun


the problem is if you start to sway on the support of our constitution our entire country will end up like this

https://streamable.com/t2qo5
Oct 6 2017 1:31PM
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TomWallnuss
Posts: 115 - Karma: 417
coolflash8the problem is if you start to sway on the support of our constitution our entire country will end up like this

https://streamable.com/t2qo5

wow that would be horrible someone steals a hat and doesn't get shot, truly dystopian
Oct 6 2017 1:59PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
theabortionatorMeh, just tired of hearing "Look at me and my guns" every time a bunch of people get shot. #redwhiteandblueeee #thesecolorsdontrun


It's interesting how the left tends to constantly tell everyone that they aren't qualified to talk about something because they 'don't know enough about it,' but then when it comes to guns, all gun owners and the NRA know nothing about guns and gun laws and how those laws will affect us. #liberallogic #gunsarescary #whatareballs
Oct 6 2017 2:03PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51644 - Karma: 162,266
milk_manIt's interesting how the left tends to constantly tell everyone that they aren't qualified to talk about something because they 'don't know enough about it,' but then when it comes to guns, all gun owners and the NRA know nothing about guns and gun laws and how those laws will affect us. #liberallogic #gunsarescary #whatareballs


Considering I said none of that. It's just a bit fucked to get into the whole "You'll never take ma guns!" "Go freedom!" the day of/the days after massive shooting sprees like this.

And don't play the whole "ermahgerd the liberals are coming!" deal. That's why I hate politics. I just don't see why everyone has to jerk off to their guns in the wake of stuff like this.

Cool, you have guns. Cool, you won't give them up for anything because freedom and stuff. But why the need to talk about it all the time, especially in this situations?
Oct 6 2017 2:16PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
theabortionatorConsidering I said none of that. It's just a bit fucked to get into the whole "You'll never take ma guns!" "Go freedom!" the day of/the days after massive shooting sprees like this.

And don't play the whole "ermahgerd the liberals are coming!" deal. That's why I hate politics. I just don't see why everyone has to jerk off to their guns in the wake of stuff like this.

Cool, you have guns. Cool, you won't give them up for anything because freedom and stuff. But why the need to talk about it all the time, especially in this situations?


Because everyone else feels the need and feels qualified to talk about them..? Are you drunk
Oct 6 2017 2:18PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51644 - Karma: 162,266
milk_manBecause everyone else feels the need and feels qualified to talk about them..? Are you drunk


"This is why we shouldn't have any gun control_________" is different than "Look at me and my guns freeeeeeeedom"

Oct 6 2017 2:27PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
theabortionator"This is why we shouldn't have any gun control_________" is different than "Look at me and my guns freeeeeeeedom"



More like look at their lack of guns and dependence on a police state. lolz
Oct 6 2017 2:29PM
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coolflash8
Posts: 3171 - Karma: 2,048
TomWallnusswow that would be horrible someone steals a hat and doesn't get shot, truly dystopian


wow you that would be horrible if you missed the point of that post entirely. the point is that once you start to let the liberal mentality take hold, it produces cry babies like in the video. and unfortunately a large part of the liberal mentality is focused around "gun control", instead of the actual problems which cause people to snap and kill 59 people.
Oct 6 2017 2:43PM
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TomWallnuss
Posts: 115 - Karma: 417
coolflash8instead of the actual problems which cause people to snap and kill 59 people.

I hate it when old men in my country snap and kill 59 people with a ballpoint pen
Oct 6 2017 2:50PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
lolololol keep complaining cucks, you crying on the internet won't effect my gun rights thanks to the NRA! #ProudMember #ThisIsNRAcountry
Oct 6 2017 3:12PM
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montanan
Posts: 1787 - Karma: 1,346
.frenchywhere is the correlation between firearms and small dicks? sorry you have mental problems and can't purchase an assault rifle, you're missing out.


😊
Oct 6 2017 3:12PM
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coolflash8
Posts: 3171 - Karma: 2,048
TomWallnussI hate it when old men in my country snap and kill 59 people with a ballpoint pen


yeah they just use a truck and kill 87. moron

**This post was edited on Oct 6th 2017 at 3:16:09pm
Oct 6 2017 3:15PM
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Casey
Posts: 7849 - Karma: 24,317
coolflash8yeah they just use a truck and kill 87. moron

**This post was edited on Oct 6th 2017 at 3:16:09pm


Trucks are registered with the government. There are various regulations and standards imposed on sales and manufacturing of trucks to make them legal. You have to take a class and pass a test to drive a truck. I guess people got tired of getting in accidents with negligent semi-truck drivers operating unregulated equipment on public highways and decided to pass some laws to minimize fatalities. Amazing how that can work.
Oct 6 2017 3:44PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,897
coolflash8yeah they just use a truck and kill 87. moron

**This post was edited on Oct 6th 2017 at 3:16:09pm


And when these truck attacks happened, the government stepped in and took measures to ensure they would be less likely to happen again in the future. They didn't just say "trucks don't kill people, people kill people". They actually did something about it.
Oct 6 2017 3:56PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,323
onenerdykidAnd when these truck attacks happened, the government stepped in and took measures to ensure they would be less likely to happen again in the future. They didn't just say "trucks don't kill people, people kill people". They actually did something about it.


There's no amendment about the right to bear trucks. you arent going to infringe on my second amendment dude, try all you want. pletny of real americans in congress still
Oct 6 2017 4:17PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6741 - Karma: 61,665
coolflash8yeah they just use a truck and kill 87. moron

**This post was edited on Oct 6th 2017 at 3:16:09pm


It took me a year and a half to get my drivers licence, including a written test, driving test and documented hours . For me to own and use a rifle in Michigan I have to do...nothing. For me to own and use a handgun I have to fill out a permit form and get a background check, the same type of background check any employer does. Just saying
Oct 6 2017 6:18PM
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coolflash8
Posts: 3171 - Karma: 2,048
LonelyIt took me a year and a half to get my drivers licence, including a written test, driving test and documented hours . For me to own and use a rifle in Michigan I have to do...nothing. For me to own and use a handgun I have to fill out a permit form and get a background check, the same type of background check any employer does. Just saying


it takes about 30 seconds to steal a truck....
Oct 6 2017 6:47PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6741 - Karma: 61,665
coolflash8it takes about 30 seconds to steal a truck....


And it takes about 4 years to get an education. You should check it out.

Your argument is not very strong if it can be applied to literally anything.

The important thing is anything can be made into a weapon but not all things are made weapons. Are you going to tell me that the purpose of a gun is not to do damage or harm to an object?
Oct 6 2017 6:53PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
LonelyAnd it takes about 4 years to get an education. You should check it out.

Your argument is not very strong if it can be applied to literally anything.

The important thing is anything can be made into a weapon but not all things are made weapons. Are you going to tell me that the purpose of a gun is not to do damage or harm to an object?


Legally obtaining a license and driving a vehicle is safe. Legally buying a firearm and using it wisely and reasonably is safe. Looks like we agree!
Oct 6 2017 7:48PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6741 - Karma: 61,665
milk_manLegally obtaining a license and driving a vehicle is safe. Legally buying a firearm and using it wisely and reasonably is safe. Looks like we agree!


Absolutely. I was simply pointing out that it is easier to licence and purchase a gun than it is a car. Even though one is a weapon and another is a vehicle.
Oct 6 2017 7:55PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
LonelyAbsolutely. I was simply pointing out that it is easier to licence and purchase a gun than it is a car. Even though one is a weapon and another is a vehicle.


Yeah but we're talking about driving a car on public roads with other people. To carry a gun among the public you need training and a permit.

You don't need some sort of certification to buy a car. That would be the logical parallel to saying we should be more strict about selling guns. So it's an interesting analogy but it's not quite what I'd be looking for to try to convince someone of anything
Oct 6 2017 8:07PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6741 - Karma: 61,665
Understandable. It's just the whole people comparing cars to guns that I'm not a fan of. Or saying that theyll just find other ways to kill people. It's about how easy certain things make it.
Oct 6 2017 8:09PM
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milk_man
Posts: 5252 - Karma: 5,983
LonelyUnderstandable. It's just the whole people comparing cars to guns that I'm not a fan of. Or saying that theyll just find other ways to kill people. It's about how easy certain things make it.


Yeah I don't think a lot of these people would pursue other ways of killing people necessarily. This guy could have been way more effective and killed way more people with something other than guns in this situation. But what he did was the simplest way for him to be a psycho so he went with that
Oct 6 2017 8:13PM
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coolflash8
Posts: 3171 - Karma: 2,048
LonelyAnd it takes about 4 years to get an education. You should check it out.

Your argument is not very strong if it can be applied to literally anything.

The important thing is anything can be made into a weapon but not all things are made weapons. Are you going to tell me that the purpose of a gun is not to do damage or harm to an object?


I am a senior in college btw, and they sure as hell are! That's why there are laws in place which make it so not everyone can obtain a firearm
Oct 6 2017 8:14PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6741 - Karma: 61,665
milk_manYeah I don't think a lot of these people would pursue other ways of killing people necessarily. This guy could have been way more effective and killed way more people with something other than guns in this situation. But what he did was the simplest way for him to be a psycho so he went with that

I'd agree. I guess I think the simplest way could be a made a little less simple. If instead of it taking someone a month to acquire firearms legally, make it take a year. Maybe that would just make it a little less simple and deter the next shooter. Or it might do nothing. I don't have the answers.
Oct 6 2017 8:19PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6741 - Karma: 61,665
coolflash8I am a senior in college btw, and they sure as hell are! That's why there are laws in place which make it so not everyone can obtain a firearm

Well in michigan you can privately obtain a firearm as long as you are 18. The only enforced law that I've seen heavily enforced is concealed carry. Everything else is pretty lax. That being said I do live in a rural area.
Oct 6 2017 8:21PM
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