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NFL Ordeal

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weastcoat
Posts: 6419 - Karma: 74,058
This is incredibly disrespectful to those who have served and continue to. They sacrifice their damn lives just so you can have freedom, and furthermore the freedom to disrespect them. Who thought it was a good idea to bring politics into the NFL? Sorry for the rant, drop your thoughts on this situation below

**This thread was edited on Sep 24th 2017 at 9:42:37pm
Sep 24 2017 9:33PM
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iced
Posts: 3070 - Karma: 17,965
im thinking what are you talking about?
Sep 24 2017 9:39PM
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weastcoat
Posts: 6419 - Karma: 74,058
icedim thinking what are you talking about?


Sorry I meant to say thoughts on the situation. This is mainly an rant thread on impulse for me because I’m pissed about this
Sep 24 2017 9:43PM
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weastcoat
Posts: 6419 - Karma: 74,058
Should have put this in the Rant About Whatever thread
Sep 24 2017 9:47PM
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yungcigsmoker
Posts: 785 - Karma: 5,922
It's just a fucking song I don't get why people get so upset about it. What ever happened to "I disagree with what you're saying but I'll defend your right to say it"? Oh yeah that only applies to KKK members
Sep 24 2017 9:58PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
You realize that those who fight for us are fighting for our rights like our right to free speech, right?
most veterans will say it's ok because we have a right to kneel or stand. It is kinda childish and just draws stupid attention but our president is a racist ass clown that goes on rants when someone doesn't like him.
Sep 24 2017 10:08PM
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weastcoat
Posts: 6419 - Karma: 74,058
Titus69You realize that those who fight for us are fighting for our rights like our right to free speech, right?
most veterans will say it's ok because we have a right to kneel or stand. It is kinda childish and just draws stupid attention but our president is a racist ass clown that goes on rants when someone doesn't like him.

Yes, I meant the freedom to protest. But the thing is that the protest is kinda disrespectful IMO.
Sep 24 2017 10:11PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
voy10Yes, I meant the freedom to protest. But the thing is that the protest is kinda disrespectful IMO.


I guess to some, it's definetly a publicity stunt for many, they have a right to but don't necessarily need to voice it in that sense.
Sep 24 2017 10:15PM
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Lonely
Posts: 6742 - Karma: 61,668
It's a simple concept called free speech.

First off the National Anthem is pseudo nationalistic as it is. We do it at pretty much any imaginable public event. If people are walking or driving by they stop and look to the flag. Its a SONG.

Secondly, Am I a piece of shit if I volunteer and raise millions of dollars for charity, but also chose to protest some very real issues in our country peacefully by not participating in the national anthem? Quite a few of these players have contributed much more to the benefit of the country than you have by standing up at your middle school choir assembly. Would you rather these players riot?

I say all of this with the utmost respect to the members of our military. Donald Trump on the other hand has many instances where he has disrespected members of our armed forces. But I guess he stands for the national anthem so he's in the clear.
Sep 24 2017 10:31PM
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-eREKTion-
Posts: 1626 - Karma: 10,930
Peaceful protest is cool and kneeling during the national anthem is about as peaceful as it gets. The only tiny problem I have with the "movement" is that most the players kneeling have done nothing to articulate why they're kneeling. They've got millions of people enthralled, just waiting for an explanation and all they'll offer is "No comment" or "The police are murderers". Bruh, you've got the nation's attention, lay out a fucking manifesto and make your ideas heard. I'm not saying I'd even agree with the message but without using your soapbox the whole kneeling thing feels a bit superficial. Oh, and to anyone saying Kapernick went unsigned because he kneeled, fuck off. Kapernick went unsigned because he converted to islam and then went on a media tour extolling the virtues of communism and mourning Fidel Castro. That edgy shit should be limited to fucking tumblr because nobody wants to hire a retard.
Sep 24 2017 10:31PM
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TheDoughAbides
Posts: 1319 - Karma: 4,036
Who gives a fuck, this is just another distraction to keep real issues like healthcare reform and the budget out of the common folk attention span. Trump made a big deal about it because hes been shitting the bed (figuratively and probably literally too) in every way that counts so he's gone and stirred up his culture war again to keep everyone, but mostly his core supporters, distracted from the fact that "president deals" really sucks at his new job.
Sep 24 2017 11:13PM
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snowpocalypse
Posts: 1036 - Karma: 3,525
If you speak to a real vet, most will say that they served the CONSTITUTION not the flag or the president. In the oath they took there is no mention of the Star Spangled banner, no mention of the flag. The point is, Yes, most of the players are well off. They have earned their money through hard work and dedication. Yet they are still told to shut up and just play. Do they not have the right to bring attention to the issues that affects the communities that they grew up in and most likely have family? Would I ever kneel in front of the flag, No, my father whom served for 23 years would kick my ass, But I'm a middle age white man that has never felt the need to. I have never been pulled over just because of my race. I have had every advantage this great country of ours can offer. Its not my place to say its right or wrong, Its my place to defend ANYONE who feels marginalized and needs a voice. If more people just listened in the first place and took the issues to task we would not be in this situation. Personally I feel is it more disrespectful to blindly fallow than to stand up against an issue that should be addressed.
Sep 25 2017 10:59AM
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BeefiestExpert
Posts: 2804 - Karma: 3,277
How about Villanueva coming out and standing for the national anthem while his whole team stayed in the locker room. That was a very bold move.
Sep 25 2017 11:20AM
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DirtYStylE
Posts: 3652 - Karma: 8,888
This is America so you are free to express whichever ideals you wish.

The NFL was given over $100 million to include the pledge of allegiance to boost military recruitment. The players never saw a penny of this and they are forced into another activity before each game. It would be great to talk about the economic factors that play a role in their situation. Alas, the paradigm is limited to the sociological factors... I haven't heard enough about respect or disrespect so please continue...
Sep 25 2017 2:52PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
I think it's fine, I enjoy any sort of public fuck you to hate, especially hate from trump. I think sports could help our country tremendously in future.
Sep 25 2017 4:51PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
Real football is played on Saturday anyway.
Sep 25 2017 4:57PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,122
cobra_commanderReal football is played on Saturday anyway.


College football can be exciting, but the lack of execution by all players ruins it for me. But, this is what fuels the excitement for most fans, so to each their own. Some safety runs the wrong way because he doesn't know how to read a QB quite yet and they get a 60 yard TD bomb, or the secondary is in man coverage, they run the ball up the middle but no one in the secondary is looking as the RB burns the MLB, 80 yd TD run.

I prefer the calculated execution of the NFL, where blocks, coverage, passes are all executed much more consistently, creating unique plays. Offense change plays at the line after they hard count the defense to check a blitz, defenses then adjusts, linemen actually block a DE coming around the corner (usually) the safety picks up a guy after he burns the CB, all of these things. College football they get a play, run it and hopefully someone on the defense makes a mistake, the offense limits their mistakes and gain yardage.

Anyways have a nice day Billy.
Sep 25 2017 5:15PM
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OregonDead
Posts: 6896 - Karma: 24,602
Just read the title but I agree the NFL is an ordeal and Sundays are for skiing. I went from being a John Elway fanatic to barely tuning in to the Super Bowl and now I haven't watched a down in several seasons. The whole thing is so boring that it turned into a total ordeal.
Sep 25 2017 5:23PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37397 - Karma: 120,246
First off, this whole "think of the troops/vets" argument is horseshit because the United States does absolutely fuck all to help or represent combat vets so I don't buy that at all. I'm tired of hearing it and its actually seems super fucking insulting having this fake "We love you" bullshit mindset but when in reality couldn't actually give a damn

Secondly, it is not actually illegal to protest the anthem. Maybe frowned upon, but it doesn't not explicitly state wherever that its illegal too

If anything, those who did lay it on the line and made an ultimate sacrifice was for stuff like this, to actually fucking prosper and thrive in the US and stand up to evil and injustice. Ive seen more vets/military folk in support of people not standing for the anthem than all the mouthbreather racists on twitter that seem to be okay with Nazis marching down the street with flags in 2017 (a regime that killed our own troops), but draw the line at someone voicing an opinion.

This country is full of fucking bullshit and just about had enough of it.
Sep 25 2017 6:04PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7486 - Karma: 11,538

From former Army Ranger Alejandro Villanueva
Sep 25 2017 6:17PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,683
why don't you cry about it

so we've got a bunch of butthurt activist athletes doing anything they can do get attention which in turn hurts the butts of "patriotic" american kooks but instead of dealing with the problem like smart people they just give the dummy attention whores more attention by acting like butthurt dummies? figure it out people none of this matters outside of the shitty little world you live in.
Sep 25 2017 9:24PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
DeebieSkeebiesFirst off, this whole "think of the troops/vets" argument is horseshit because the United States does absolutely fuck all to help or represent combat vets so I don't buy that at all. I'm tired of hearing it and its actually seems super fucking insulting having this fake "We love you" bullshit mindset but when in reality couldn't actually give a damn

Secondly, it is not actually illegal to protest the anthem. Maybe frowned upon, but it doesn't not explicitly state wherever that its illegal too

If anything, those who did lay it on the line and made an ultimate sacrifice was for stuff like this, to actually fucking prosper and thrive in the US and stand up to evil and injustice. Ive seen more vets/military folk in support of people not standing for the anthem than all the mouthbreather racists on twitter that seem to be okay with Nazis marching down the street with flags in 2017 (a regime that killed our own troops), but draw the line at someone voicing an opinion.

This country is full of fucking bullshit and just about had enough of it.


Precisely, they can't be convicted of anything illegal and the NFL doesn't have a rule stating they can't do anything because they don't have to play the anthem at the start of each game. They're only performing an act that our country is allowed to do, have a right to speak your mind freely without having to fear consequences. yet Trump shits all over a dictator who would put a gun to my head if I said I didn't believe in him. He seriously needs to shut the fuck up and focus on the important thing, like helping out countries who fucking have nothing left from natural disaster and not having his precious business, I mean country, from being destroyed. If only the plot of "The Interview" could happen to trump, then Kim wouldn't have to deal with being called "rocket man."

I just hope we don't get nuked before winter, I'm itching to hard to ski right now.
Sep 25 2017 9:47PM
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JAHpow
Posts: 7282 - Karma: 17,176
The referenced post has been removed.


This, Coach Tomlin expecting full team participation of staying off the field for the anthem is disgusting. I understand it is your right to kneel or stay off the field, but I do not believe you can tell someone else what to do in that circumstance.
Sep 25 2017 10:13PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,183
-eREKTion-Peaceful protest is cool and kneeling during the national anthem is about as peaceful as it gets. The only tiny problem I have with the "movement" is that most the players kneeling have done nothing to articulate why they're kneeling. They've got millions of people enthralled, just waiting for an explanation and all they'll offer is "No comment" or "The police are murderers". Bruh, you've got the nation's attention, lay out a fucking manifesto and make your ideas heard. I'm not saying I'd even agree with the message but without using your soapbox the whole kneeling thing feels a bit superficial. Oh, and to anyone saying Kapernick went unsigned because he kneeled, fuck off. Kapernick went unsigned because he converted to islam and then went on a media tour extolling the virtues of communism and mourning Fidel Castro. That edgy shit should be limited to fucking tumblr because nobody wants to hire a retard.


That and he sucks at football. And his hair is weird.
Sep 26 2017 1:07PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7486 - Karma: 11,538
Another interesting series of Op-Eds, one by a former military man turned beat-writer for the NO Saints, the other former General Michael Hayden, a Steelers season ticket holder.


http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2017/09/a_view_on_the_nfl_players_prot.html

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/352419-michael-hayden-in-trump-versus-nfl-standing-up-for-free-speech

I hope people note the irony in that the man decrying these actions is the same man who avoided being drafted, twice, criticized McCain for being captured, and insulted a Gold Star family.
Sep 26 2017 1:21PM
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TheHamburglar
Posts: 3895 - Karma: 3,315
TheDoughAbidesWho gives a fuck, this is just another distraction to keep real issues like healthcare reform and the budget out of the common folk attention span. Trump made a big deal about it because hes been shitting the bed (figuratively and probably literally too) in every way that counts so he's gone and stirred up his culture war again to keep everyone, but mostly his core supporters, distracted from the fact that "president deals" really sucks at his new job.


This. It's just a big distraction from larger issues and yet another great way to divide the people. Win-win for Donald Dump.
Sep 26 2017 2:13PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51664 - Karma: 162,496
voy10This is incredibly disrespectful to those who have served and continue to. They sacrifice their damn lives just so you can have freedom, and furthermore the freedom to disrespect them. Who thought it was a good idea to bring politics into the NFL? Sorry for the rant, drop your thoughts on this situation below

**This thread was edited on Sep 24th 2017 at 9:42:37pm


Why are people so butthurt about this

As usual, people care more about a song and a stupid flag than they do about the country. "Take our freedoms away just don't touch our symbols and traditions!"

Ugh.

While we're on the topic can the pledge of allegiance just die already?

"I pledge allegiance to a flag and some country, and I promise I'm not a communist, and I will obey the rules and stuff" Meh.

What a ridiculous thing to make kids recite every day. What is this, North Korea or something?
Sep 26 2017 2:34PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
theabortionatorWhy are people so butthurt about this

As usual, people care more about a song and a stupid flag than they do about the country. "Take our freedoms away just don't touch our symbols and traditions!"

Ugh.

While we're on the topic can the pledge of allegiance just die already?

"I pledge allegiance to a flag and some country, and I promise I'm not a communist, and I will obey the rules and stuff" Meh.

What a ridiculous thing to make kids recite every day. What is this, North Korea or something?


When my brother was in high school they stopped having to do the pledge but before this fucking annoying religious douche whined enough to get it back, probably cause it has "God" in the lyrics. He had to do it himself though, my brother stayed sitting once and the teacher went up to him and threw his hat across the room, and were allowed to basically wear whatever we want at this school.
Sep 26 2017 7:12PM
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brett_fisher
Posts: 2417 - Karma: 10,494
First, I don't really like football 2nd even if you hate the government/president like what about showing a little respect for the fucking anthem like people fought and died for our freedom.

**This post was edited on Sep 26th 2017 at 8:10:06pm
Sep 26 2017 7:49PM
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.MASSHOLE.
Posts: 7486 - Karma: 11,538
“I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”


Powerful words from MLK Jr. that really apply to this weekends events.
Sep 26 2017 7:55PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51664 - Karma: 162,496
brett_fisherFirst, I don't really like football 2nd even if you hate the government/president like what about showing a little respect for the fucking anthem like people fought and died for our freedom.And you can't even stand for the people that died and lost limbs, sanity, ability to do the things they love and your gonna neal like that's a massive fuck you to everyone who died and served.



mmkay
Sep 26 2017 7:57PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
brett_fisherFirst, I don't really like football 2nd even if you hate the government/president like what about showing a little respect for the fucking anthem like people fought and died for our freedom.

**This post was edited on Sep 26th 2017 at 8:10:06pm


Well do you know what they were fighting for?
Sep 26 2017 8:26PM
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brett_fisher
Posts: 2417 - Karma: 10,494
Titus69Well do you know what they were fighting for?


no like i sad i don't realy follow football. Inform me.
Sep 26 2017 9:10PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
brett_fisherno like i sad i don't realy follow football. Inform me.


....It has nothing to with football entirely, I mean they fought in war so we could have our right to do things like these protests.
Sep 26 2017 9:19PM
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brett_fisher
Posts: 2417 - Karma: 10,494
Titus69....It has nothing to with football entirely, I mean they fought in war so we could have our right to do things like these protests.


so what I'm not understanding is we were given the right to protest so we can disrespect the people that gave it to us ????
Sep 26 2017 9:25PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
brett_fisherso what I'm not understanding is we were given the right to protest so we can disrespect the people that gave it to us ????

Yes because we have the right to speak our minds and they're not disrespecting those who fought and died, they're protesting against the fact that there is still racism and a leader who doesn't want to unify anyone besides the rich and very white. Like we've all said in here, many veterans believe it's ok for this, because they fought so we had the ability too, even if you disagree with the whole thing you have to understand there is nothing illegal and it's a foundation of why we are (we're) such a great country. If we had to go with what they told us and shut up, people would be dead or locked up cause they couldn't voice their opinion, like in North Korea.

I dont really watch football either, but I get why they're doing it, i will say it's annoying how they're doing it though. Maybe just shut up and play, you're an athlete not a politician or activist.
Sep 26 2017 9:32PM
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brett_fisher
Posts: 2417 - Karma: 10,494
Titus69Yes because we have the right to speak our minds and they're not disrespecting those who fought and died, they're protesting against the fact that there is still racism and a leader who doesn't want to unify anyone besides the rich and very white. Like we've all said in here, many veterans believe it's ok for this, because they fought so we had the ability too, even if you disagree with the whole thing you have to understand there is nothing illegal and it's a foundation of why we are (we're) such a great country. If we had to go with what they told us and shut up, people would be dead or locked up cause they couldn't voice their opinion, like in North Korea.

I dont really watch football either, but I get why they're doing it, i will say it's annoying how they're doing it though. Maybe just shut up and play, you're an athlete not a politician or activist.

word I've learned more about it from you.After hearing this i still think there could be a better way to do this.

**This post was edited on Sep 26th 2017 at 10:09:07pm
Sep 26 2017 9:36PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,683
brett_fisherso what I'm not understanding is we were given the right to protest so we can disrespect the people that gave it to us ????


yes, you fucking retard.

to say that they "fought for your freedom" and then turning around and saying well you don't have the freedom to kneel during this shitty old song we love so much is hypocritical hillbilly logic. so much freedom in the land of the free, with more prisoners than anywhere and a first world country where you can get you ass kicked by cops for looking at one wrong, or just being black.
Sep 26 2017 9:36PM
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Titus69
Posts: 9329 - Karma: 17,816
brett_fisherword I've learned more about it from you.After hearing this i still think there could be a better way to do this.

**This post was edited on Sep 26th 2017 at 10:09:07pm

Definetly, I stick with what I said, they're athletes and not politicians. You can also be that guy and say "so why don't they just do something about it?"
Sep 26 2017 10:10PM
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brett_fisher
Posts: 2417 - Karma: 10,494
GORILLAWALLACEyes, you fucking retard.

to say that they "fought for your freedom" and then turning around and saying well you don't have the freedom to kneel during this shitty old song we love so much is hypocritical hillbilly logic. so much freedom in the land of the free, with more prisoners than anywhere and a first world country where you can get you ass kicked by cops for looking at one wrong, or just being black.


lol see what I'm doing is saying what i though and hearing what others thought and learning more about it and having a respectful conversation. I just think there should be more respect for that "stupid old song" and that's my opinion and if you disagree there's nothing wrong with that. yeah maybe there are problems here, but we got it better than most of the world and we have the people behind that "stupid" song to thank for it.
Sep 26 2017 10:15PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51664 - Karma: 162,496
The referenced post has been removed.


I'm pretty up in the air on the actual protest thing. I don't care in anyway, but a lot of people just want to protest, without having much of a plan or sometimes even a good reason for protesting.

That said I can't understand why anyone could freak out about it. This country was founded for the people and their freedoms, not a bunch of symbols. I get how burning the flag is disrespectful(not that it bothers me) but this is a fucking song. People melt down when somebody doesn't take their hat off. People freaked out about the pledge(which is retarded and should get the boot)

I feel like American's are so stuck in a fucked up nationalistic trance of "rah rah Murica rulez!" "These colors don't run!" 'Americas like the best country ever!" etc, that they forget that there is more to life than a flag, a song, and even the country they were born in.

I think a lot of people are just objective lacking nascar loving fanboys for this country. America is a great place, but we don't need to obsessively dickride the hype train to be good Americans. I get that that's the pitch that we seem to be given, but sweet jesus.

Also, from watching how people vote and the issues they argue about it, it seems that most people really just give a fuck about the symbols. They'll vote for fucked candidates, support ridiculous causes, deny people including themselves freedoms, just don't touch the flag or their fucking nascar.
Sep 26 2017 11:18PM
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TheDoughAbides
Posts: 1319 - Karma: 4,036
I can't stand all of the "rah rah, merica rulez" bullshit. Yeah, the USA is an awesome country. But all the hypernationalism has bred complacency while we silently lose our hegemony to nations like China and Russia.

Our country is clearly diseased to its core with affluenza and yet the majority of the populace would rather dream about sedating themselves with dog piss beer every weekend while watching a bunch of people compete for some shit that doesn't matter instead of doing anything to fix it. I'm definitely part of this problem but I'm working on changing that (volunteering every other weekend instead of getting caught in the vicious drunk/hangover cycle...it's a start).
Sep 27 2017 12:17AM
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fghtoffyrdmns
Posts: 2998 - Karma: 6,867
voy10This is incredibly disrespectful to those who have served and continue to. They sacrifice their damn lives just so you can have freedom, and furthermore the freedom to disrespect them. Who thought it was a good idea to bring politics into the NFL? Sorry for the rant, drop your thoughts on this situation below

**This thread was edited on Sep 24th 2017 at 9:42:37pm


its funny how triggered you are. people died for their freedom to stand, kneel, or do whatever. theyre not protesting the anthem, that's like arguing that people marching are protesting fucking roads. maybe look into what theyre actually protesting instead of being a triggered ass snowflake?
Sep 28 2017 11:25AM
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Lonely
Posts: 6742 - Karma: 61,668
The referenced post has been removed.


I thought this too, but apparently the full story was that the captains were going to go out and stand with him. They did not have time to get out so the stopped moving and put their hands over their hearts for the anthem. This led to the picture of him standing alone, when it was supposed to be him and the captains. In another picture you can see the captains 5 ft behind him.
Sep 28 2017 11:43AM
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Lonely
Posts: 6742 - Karma: 61,668
The referenced post has been removed.


I would also agree with this, but the argument is that raising awareness is important and does have an effect. Wearing pink shirts doesn't stop breast cancer, but it does make the issue more public leading to donations and other aide. I'm not a fan of Colin Kaepernick but I will say that he did donate the majority of the money from his jersey (which people bought to burn) sales after he took a knee to different organizations working to fix the issue.
Sep 28 2017 11:49AM
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Session
Posts: 5379 - Karma: 22,208
Late to the party. But I'm a Veteran. I agree with people's right peacefully protest. I see that as something I signed 8 years of my life away to protect. Have at it.
Sep 28 2017 6:21PM
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ghoti_hook
Posts: 243 - Karma: 1,225
A very interesting take in this NY times article:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/01/sports/football/nfl-anthem-protest.html?referer=https://www.google.com/
Summary:
How many people voluntarily completely ignore the anthems rituals and customs and only abide by them when it is convenient for them?
Oct 2 2017 7:05PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51664 - Karma: 162,496
ghoti_hookA very interesting take in this NY times article:
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/01/sports/football/nfl-anthem-protest.html?referer=https://www.google.com/
Summary:
How many people voluntarily completely ignore the anthems rituals and customs and only abide by them when it is convenient for them?


Good read
Oct 2 2017 7:22PM
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