Look Pivot 18 vs Tyrolia Attack 16

What are you using them for? Park, Big mtn? what setup they going on?

Off the bat, id say Attack 16s for me but that personal preference. Also, you're not locked to a single mounted bsl so your buddies with slightly different sized boots could use them if need be. Also, the weight and stack height of the 16s is much less than the metal on the pivot 18s so that another +2 for me.

ZypherWhat are you using them for? Park, Big mtn? what setup they going on?

Off the bat, id say Attack 16s for me but that personal preference. Also, you're not locked to a single mounted bsl so your buddies with slightly different sized boots could use them if need be. Also, the weight and stack height of the 16s is much less than the metal on the pivot 18s so that another +2 for me.

Well it's not going on a setup its a what is better for everything, but let's say big mountain skiing

Then I'd go with the attack 16s. Powder won't get caked in the turntables

ZypherThen I'd go with the attack 16s. Powder won't get caked in the turntables

Other than the powder issue are the pivots better, I've heard they are more playful

The pivots have a little more travel to them but they are also heavier. I've used attack 13s and 16s as well as the pivot 14s and prefer the attack series just because of the lighter weight and lower stack height.

Pivots are a meme. They look swaggier but they're twice the price of other bindings and the leave a lot to be desired in powder. STH16 4 lyfe.

ZypherThe pivots have a little more travel to them but they are also heavier. I've used attack 13s and 16s as well as the pivot 14s and prefer the attack series just because of the lighter weight and lower stack height.

they have a significantly lower stack height than pivots??

SofaKingSickthey have a significantly lower stack height than pivots??

If i remember correctly, the Attacks have a stack height of 17mm and the pivots are around 20-22mm. Correct me if im wrong though.

ZypherIf i remember correctly, the Attacks have a stack height of 17mm and the pivots are around 20-22mm. Correct me if im wrong though.

i vaguely recall the pivots being more like 18 or 19?

idk and it doesnt matter. i wasn't doubting what you said as much as expressing my surprise that the attacks are similarly low. i love both bindings and i love low stack heights

SofaKingSicki vaguely recall the pivots being more like 18 or 19?

idk and it doesnt matter. i wasn't doubting what you said as much as expressing my surprise that the attacks are similarly low. i love both bindings and i love low stack heights

Yeah thats the main reason why i like the attacks. They, i believe, have the lowest stack height on the current market and, to me, having boot to ski interface is more beneficial than having a pivot-able heel piece.

Pivots for sure. Theres a reason so many FWT athletes ride them, the retention and durability is unparalleled.

You aren't going to get snow in the turntable when your din is on 17 and those fuckers never come off your feet. Pivot al day!

P18s hands down. Might be a little more on the fence with P14s even though I would still choose the pivots. Never had an issue wiping a little snow off the heel if it gets caked up in powder, and it doesn't happen as often as people claim.

Yeah this all depends on the use of the ski. For park and spins on and off rails is say pivot but for jumps it's a toss up for either case

Love the attacks would take them over pivots anyday. Huge fan of the feel

I've been on both before and like the Pivot 18 better. If you set the dins high enough you will not come out in powder. I have done a full accidental front flip in powder and was shocked when I went to search for my skis only to find that they were still on. Also, the durability in unmatched.

I like how the pivot feels more, but I like the durability of the Attack more. Don't get 16s if you compare them to the pivot 18s. take the attack 18s vs the pivot 18s. in that matchup I take the attack over the pivot for durability reasons and just easier maintenance.

Pivot 18s get my vote - have never had any trouble getting them back on in pow and I have "thoroughly tested" them by ejecting from my skis all over the mountain.

Lol why did I get 4 thumbs down? I loosened my dins after that happened but thought it showed if u never want to come out the Pivots r the way to go.

highpeakLol why did I get 4 thumbs down? I loosened my dins after that happened but thought it showed if u never want to come out the Pivots r the way to go.

Sometimes I think I have more of s chance destroying my knees when I come out, I can think of quite a few times when it would be better if I didn't come out

sickskiOther than the powder issue are the pivots better, I've heard they are more playful

LOL a binding more playful?? did you see some guy who does butters have pivots on his skis.


Honestly they're both good, id rather have attacks tho. Attacks are nice cause theyre generally cheaper, a solid binding, and super light. Never had any issues with the attacks I've owned.

.lenconLOL a binding more playful?? did you see some guy who does butters have pivots on his skis.


Honestly they're both good, id rather have attacks tho. Attacks are nice cause theyre generally cheaper, a solid binding, and super light. Never had any issues with the attacks I've owned.

the entire thread has been saying how pivots are so durable but Ive seen way more broken pivots than I have attacks in the past couple years. Pivots are good but tbh they are less durable and a big reason for that is the brake system. I fully back the attack 18s to be more durable. Cant comment on the 16s

Park.the entire thread has been saying how pivots are so durable but Ive seen way more broken pivots than I have attacks in the past couple years. Pivots are good but tbh they are less durable and a big reason for that is the brake system. I fully back the attack 18s to be more durable. Cant comment on the 16s

I haven't had any problems with my 16s or 13s. Just a nice, simple, solid binding. Low stack heigh, light, cheap, adjustable. All around just good. Brake system on the attack could be better.. but other than that no complaints

Park.the entire thread has been saying how pivots are so durable but Ive seen way more broken pivots than I have attacks in the past couple years. Pivots are good but tbh they are less durable and a big reason for that is the brake system. I fully back the attack 18s to be more durable. Cant comment on the 16s

This is a good point actually, even if you go for all metal Pivot 18s, the brakes are still a weak-point in the design!

Enjoy your plastic durability in four seasons when your binding has play. I'll take the P18s any day of the week, I have pairs pushing 15 years of hard use and they still function just fine. Plastic bindings don't do that.

wanted to bump the thread as I've recently come into a couple attack clamps and have been a p18 guy for 10+yrs. Anyone a multi-season-owner of the tyrolias? had my first day on them today and stack height felt comparably low to fks/looks, seemed super solid although i didnt jump off anything. for the price seems like a legit binding. my main issues are long-term. trust the p18s more than anything because ive beaten them to hell and the all-metal has taken a beating and the binding still works flawlessly. Also wondering how they compare to the STHs, i stopped using them because of the dreaded "toe adjust/forward pressure creep" a long time ago. had a couple prereleases at high speed with them that were not fun so i never went back. A little nervous to go back to bindings that have vertical adjust on the toes and track-mounted heels. curious to hear about more experiences with them especially with big-mountian. not worried about pow in the heels or anything on fks/p18 literally never been an issue for me.

Multi multi season owner of attack 13 and 16s. Love them. Pivots are great dont get me wrong...but have never had any issues with the attacks and have really enjoyed riding on them. I hate the pivots in powder

RagDollwanted to bump the thread as I've recently come into a couple attack clamps and have been a p18 guy for 10+yrs. Anyone a multi-season-owner of the tyrolias? had my first day on them today and stack height felt comparably low to fks/looks, seemed super solid although i didnt jump off anything. for the price seems like a legit binding. my main issues are long-term. trust the p18s more than anything because ive beaten them to hell and the all-metal has taken a beating and the binding still works flawlessly. Also wondering how they compare to the STHs, i stopped using them because of the dreaded "toe adjust/forward pressure creep" a long time ago. had a couple prereleases at high speed with them that were not fun so i never went back. A little nervous to go back to bindings that have vertical adjust on the toes and track-mounted heels. curious to hear about more experiences with them especially with big-mountian. not worried about pow in the heels or anything on fks/p18 literally never been an issue for me.

I stepped away from sth for the exact same reason. Been on pivot 15s/18s ever since. Still my favorite binding after trying out a bunch of kinds. I've never had huge issues with pow in the heels either....never understood that. 3 seconds and one wipe of the heel and it's all gone.

In the end its all preference. I like the full metal and the comfort that gives me....and im curious how the attacjs last to 5+ seasons of use. Attacks are bomb for the price. But I just sale hop for fks and I have gotten all of them for less than 200 or free. There isnt much of a chance that I would pay the full 400 for a pair of 18s. That's pretty crazy.

To each their own.

pivot and attack are the 2 best bindings. as stupid as it is, if you hike a ton of rails, its way faster/easier to get in and out of attacks than pivots. so then buy attacks.

ive been riding p18/fks 185, 155 for the past 11 years with over 300 days on each pivot binding I own and still ride. Ive never had an issue other than breaking brakes. If they're too hard to put on in pow then youre doing something wrong.

Never ridden the Attack series bindings but the Peak 18 did really well for me.

Both the Attack series and Pivot series of bindings are fantastic bindings but each will have advantages and disadvantages. See a lot of misinformation on here so thought I'd comment.

Both these bindings have similar stack heights and ramp delta(difference between toe and heel height) with Attacks at 17mm toe and Look at 18.5mm. Salomon STH2 WTR13 is also at 18.5mm toe height but Warden are in the 24-26mm range. Marker Griffon and Jester at 22mm toe height. So little difference between Look/Tyrolia but higher in certain Salomon models and Marker models.

Weight of Pivot vs Attack bindings are similar in the 16 and 18 din models but the big advantage is between the Pivot 12 and the Attack 13. The Attack 13 is about 200 grams(almost 1/2 lb) or so lighter than the Pivot 12 and about the same amount lighter than the SPX12 or Salomon competitors of the same DIN. Markers have always been light so similar weight to the Tyrolia but usually more expensive, higher toe height, harder to get in/out of and not as substantial feeling as the Tyrolia.

Biggest advantage by far is the heel of the Pivot binding. It not only does it allow for more elastic travel before any other heel before releasing, the mount area on the heel is the shortest of any binding out there. The shorter mounting area on the heel allows the ski to naturally flex more behind it as more of the ski is not under a rigid binding. This is the major difference in feel of the pivot vs any other binding and why the ski feels softer (more playful was mentioned in this thread) as the ski can flex more behind the heel.

The Pivot heel is also a liability as it has very little adjustment range for different sized boots as it doesn't have a track system like every other binding. Instead of 32mm adjustment range in the Tyrolia (plus/minus a boot size from original mount) you get less than one boot size of total adjustment(under 10mm), so remounts are a must when switching boot sizes. It is also harder to get in and out of(but not THAT hard as some suggest) than an Attack which is the easiest of any binding out there. The Pivot brake can also be a bit of a disadvantage as the brake is easily bent(but can be easily bent back) and a brake replacement is tricky and expensive with a set costing $100.

So in summary, best on snow performance all things considered is the Pivot binding but it will be more expensive and not have much adjustability for future boots sizes and depending on the model may be heavier than Attack models.
If you want future adjustability in a great light weight but substantial binding that's easy to get in and out of at a great price? Then Attack 13 is the binding of choice and the best binding buy out there right now. The larger DIN Attack 16 or 18 offer more metal at the cost of higher weight but still have fantastic performance and are more adjustable and user friendly than the larger DIN Pivots.
Pivots are the ultimate in performance and the Attacks are the closest performer out there but with more future versatility at a lower price.

Cheers

I think the pivot 18 is still the best binding for retention and elastic travel. Even if you get a binding that claims to have more mm of travel, it still doesn't ski the same. As soon as you are off hardpack I think it is the best binding. Look at any world cup mogul podium and virtually every ski will be mounted with a pivot 18.

KravtZI hate the pivots in powder

I didn’t realize their superior elastic travel and minimal footprint allowing the ski to flex naturally ceased to function as advertised in powder.

Greg_KBoth the Attack series and Pivot series of bindings are fantastic bindings but each will have advantages and disadvantages. See a lot of misinformation on here so thought I'd comment.

Both these bindings have similar stack heights and ramp delta(difference between toe and heel height) with Attacks at 17mm toe and Look at 18.5mm. Salomon STH2 WTR13 is also at 18.5mm toe height but Warden are in the 24-26mm range. Marker Griffon and Jester at 22mm toe height. So little difference between Look/Tyrolia but higher in certain Salomon models and Marker models.

Weight of Pivot vs Attack bindings are similar in the 16 and 18 din models but the big advantage is between the Pivot 12 and the Attack 13. The Attack 13 is about 200 grams(almost 1/2 lb) or so lighter than the Pivot 12 and about the same amount lighter than the SPX12 or Salomon competitors of the same DIN. Markers have always been light so similar weight to the Tyrolia but usually more expensive, higher toe height, harder to get in/out of and not as substantial feeling as the Tyrolia.

Biggest advantage by far is the heel of the Pivot binding. It not only does it allow for more elastic travel before any other heel before releasing, the mount area on the heel is the shortest of any binding out there. The shorter mounting area on the heel allows the ski to naturally flex more behind it as more of the ski is not under a rigid binding. This is the major difference in feel of the pivot vs any other binding and why the ski feels softer (more playful was mentioned in this thread) as the ski can flex more behind the heel.

The Pivot heel is also a liability as it has very little adjustment range for different sized boots as it doesn't have a track system like every other binding. Instead of 32mm adjustment range in the Tyrolia (plus/minus a boot size from original mount) you get less than one boot size of total adjustment(under 10mm), so remounts are a must when switching boot sizes. It is also harder to get in and out of(but not THAT hard as some suggest) than an Attack which is the easiest of any binding out there. The Pivot brake can also be a bit of a disadvantage as the brake is easily bent(but can be easily bent back) and a brake replacement is tricky and expensive with a set costing $100.

So in summary, best on snow performance all things considered is the Pivot binding but it will be more expensive and not have much adjustability for future boots sizes and depending on the model may be heavier than Attack models.
If you want future adjustability in a great light weight but substantial binding that's easy to get in and out of at a great price? Then Attack 13 is the binding of choice and the best binding buy out there right now. The larger DIN Attack 16 or 18 offer more metal at the cost of higher weight but still have fantastic performance and are more adjustable and user friendly than the larger DIN Pivots.
Pivots are the ultimate in performance and the Attacks are the closest performer out there but with more future versatility at a lower price.

Cheers

Killed the summary right there 👌