The Revision affect

Effect

Inb4 ski companies need to register with an official body like vacation companies

I'm super over hearing about the whole revision thing.

Judging by the number of times Ninthward has failed and come back, I think NS has a collective extremely short term memory.

Just don't pre-order skis, it that easy. Seriously, here's $400 send me some skis when there built, really.

RudyGarmischJudging by the number of times Ninthward has failed and come back, I think NS has a collective extremely short term memory.

how many times exactly are we up to?

RudyGarmischJudging by the number of times Ninthward has failed and come back, I think NS has a collective extremely short term memory.

Completely forgot that they are back.

RudyGarmischJudging by the number of times Ninthward has failed and come back, I think NS has a collective extremely short term memory.

Ah, yes, the internet.

waiting4snowJust don't pre-order skis, it that easy. Seriously, here's $400 send me some skis when there built, really.

Well usually you never have problems pre-ordering and nobody knew that this was gonna happen.

Someone was shitting on surface in a thread the other day, probably because they thought they were revision. Kinda sucks, not all small companies are bad and now the revision debacle has pushed a lot of new skiers away from buying small.

snowfinderCompletely forgot that they are back.

Well ordering 75 pairs from the Never Summer factory with a "9" on them doesn't really equal "back".

to be fair most of the "new ski company" threads on NS go absolutely nowhere, militia is probably the only recent one that might actually last a season or two. makes sense to question them at least a little bit.

while revision and on3p aren't remotely comparable in terms of their respective customer service, ski quality, etc., it's important to remember that many small ski companies receive skepticism early on. people complained during on3p's second year of operation, when their pre-ordered skis didn't arrive until April of that year (yeah that sucked). since then, though, on3p has had few slip ups and they proved themselves as a company.

after seeing these scenarios play out with multiple start-up ski companies over the last ~10 years it would be wise to steer away from newer companies who still have some kinks to work out. seems vishnu and others are doing just fine though. revision, on the other hand, is a whole different story.

Shewlur...while revision and on3p aren't remotely comparable in terms of their respective customer service, ski quality, etc., it's important to remember that many small ski companies receive skepticism early on. people complained during on3p's second year of operation, when their pre-ordered skis didn't arrive until April of that year (yeah that sucked). since then, though, on3p has had few slip ups and they proved themselves as a company.

after seeing these scenarios play out with multiple start-up ski companies over the last ~10 years it would be wise to steer away from newer companies who still have some kinks to work out. seems vishnu and others are doing just fine though. revision, on the other hand, is a whole different story.

Just because I have access to all the data, figured I would respond just to make sure all the facts are clear re: ON3P's first 2 years.

I think you are likely thinking of our first year (2009). We started taking pre orders that year, in our first month of business, in late July and that lasted until September. That first year was the year we were super late (which, as you stated here, not surprising since it was transitioning from prototyping in a garage to designing a ski factory from scratch - moved in with nothing on 8/1/09 - and doing actual ski production). The majority of skis shipped in January and February, so far from ideal, with some models earlier in December and some later in March/April. I can tell you that sucked for everyone, including the 3 of us building all the skis while working 100 hours per week.

2010 was a bit better. Preorder started in late May and ran through the summer. First skis (according to my shipping records) started shipping out in late August. For orders placed by the end of September, the breakdown of preorder shipping that year was:
August - 3%
Sept - 19%
Oct - 24%
Nov - 25%
Dec - 29%

So again, late and far from ideal but quite a bit earlier than April, at least according to all the sales and shipping data I just reviewed.

As for the Revision situation - it's really not my place to comment. I will say, sadly, based upon the info I've heard the situation is neither surprising nor will there likely be any real resolution. Hopefully people end up getting there skis, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

As for all the brands that seem to be popping up every month...some will be good, some will suck. It's pretty easy to establish a company and outsource skis to Asia. Building that company into an actual brand, though, is hard. To me, when I see brands start to actually takes steps to differentiate themselves, I start to view them as a company trying to build something, rather than having a ski company just for the sake of having a ski company (which, to me, seems like the majority) That is, at least, my jaded perspective from having spent the past 8 years trying to establish my own brand from scratch.

Shewlur...while revision and on3p aren't remotely comparable in terms of their respective customer service, ski quality, etc., it's important to remember that many small ski companies receive skepticism early on. people complained during on3p's second year of operation, when their pre-ordered skis didn't arrive until April of that year (yeah that sucked). since then, though, on3p has had few slip ups and they proved themselves as a company.

after seeing these scenarios play out with multiple start-up ski companies over the last ~10 years it would be wise to steer away from newer companies who still have some kinks to work out. seems vishnu and others are doing just fine though. revision, on the other hand, is a whole different story.

I think the biggest difference is the customer service end. Every time there has been an issue with production at the ON3P factory, they have been honest and open about it. They stay in constant contact and provide up to date details about what's going on. They also offered refunds and credits and made up for it in other ways. That's how trust is built. A company can have a complete failure, even to a Revision level, but they have to own it and stay up to date with the customers (it also helpful to offer some sort of compensation as well). Revision didn't do this, and that's why people are pissed. Not JUST because they haven't gotten their skis yet.

Other small companies may face speculation at first - but honestly all of them should, not just because of Revision. But, once they prove themselves to be reliable and trustworthy, they will be successful.

are you talking about the thread where its like "we are building skis and have some prototypes, would you wanna buy them"?? Revision has nothing to do with people not wanting to buy them... why would anyone be interested in something so vague?

BWalmerA company can have a complete failure, even to a Revision level, but they have to own it and stay up to date with the customers (it also helpful to offer some sort of compensation as well). Revision didn't do this, and that's why people are pissed. Not JUST because they haven't gotten their skis yet.

Other small companies may face speculation at first - but honestly all of them should, not just because of Revision. But, once they prove themselves to be reliable and trustworthy, they will be successful.

Exactly my point. I needed a new pair of skis this year and hopped all over ON3P's end of season sale this year, knowing full well that they had resolved any and all of the issues that held them back in the first two years of production.

Btw thanks for clearing up my original post Scott. I meant for that analogy to be a testament to how good customer service and transparency over many years can resolve the multitude of problems that a startup ski company will run into.

Revision definitely stung a few people, however, as a whole in scale of the size of the ski community, or even just the freeski community for that matter, it truly hasn't effected much. The majority of skiers have never even heard of Revision.

in second, It is for sure a good practice to always use caution when pre-ordering, whether it is from a new company, or the big guys on the block. Pre-orders go south in all industries all of the time. Crazy things just happen.

a_burgerto be fair most of the "new ski company" threads on NS go absolutely nowhere, militia is probably the only recent one that might actually last a season or two. makes sense to question them at least a little bit.

Isnt On3p new

MilitiaskisRevision definitely stung a few people, however, as a whole in scale of the size of the ski community, or even just the freeski community for that matter, it truly hasn't effected much. The majority of skiers have never even heard of Revision.

in second, It is for sure a good practice to always use caution when pre-ordering, whether it is from a new company, or the big guys on the block. Pre-orders go south in all industries all of the time. Crazy things just happen.

Pretty sure everyone in the freeski community has heard of revision

TreyladdyIsnt On3p new

Not quite.

https://shop.on3pskis.com/pages/history

jjdsteezePretty sure everyone in the freeski community has heard of revision

I hadn't until I read that nightmare thread. Probably the best thread I've seen on NS in years. The subject matter was unfortunate, but there was a lot of great insights in there.

Mainly, stay away from that garbage which I hadn't known about prior.