Real talk: why "millenials" are choosing atheism

NewEscuelersI don't think their reasons were shit. Just came across the wrong way.

Mr.MittenIn my experience of going to church for 18 years of my life I've noticed that kids just really don't like the church vibe, especially in Catholicism, and that turns a lot of young people away. They don't feel engaged at mass/service and get bored, then they literally couldn't give a fuck what the priest says. Which is really unfortunate because even if you don't subscribe to all the biblical facts and what not, it's easy to draw really good lessons from just about any church service.

Also some younger people see it as kinda cool to shit on religion especially traditional practice. Just a way of defying their parents and seeming like they're doing something out of the norm.

I'm not sure if atheism is becoming increasingly popular, I'm sure it is, but I also see a growing amount of people considering themselves "spiritual" for lack of a better word. Probably gunna get shat on for using that one but I think it fits.

CoreyTrevorWhat are the real reasons people are straying away from religion?

Honestly I don't even know what brought me to this article. I read it posted on fox news and their reasons were useless and full of shit. I would have loved to post ACTUAL reasons why our generation is straying away but didn't want to have to create a fuckin fox news account.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/04/30/ten-reasons-millennials-are-backing-away-from-god-and-christianity.html


My thoughts:
-Jihad, right wing extremists don't help.
-Bigotry, preaching tolerance and acceptance and jesus dying for all our sins and flaws yet then proclaiming gays are going to hell blah blah..
-The fact that so many Christians etc. are pretty solid republicans. Doesn't make any fucking sense. Take care of your sick and ill the bible would say, oh but fuck those freeloaders...

and obviously as generations become less religious, they are far less likely to pass on religious beliefs to generations below.

One thing I will say is when I see people who are militant atheists, I personally mostly see mommy/daddy issues. I understand having religion shoved down your throat can leave a bad taste in your mouth but that's not going to change my opinion of you for not choosing to grow up and respect everybody's beliefs.
I was raised in the church as a kid as my dad was from a very religious family, and my mom was a pastors daughter. Despite that and me going to sunday school, church, confirmation, my parents were not overbearing. I also chose science in pursuing a Geology degree so scientifically I can see reasons why to not be religious but I would never push an anti-religious agenda either.

CoreyTrevorbut that's not going to change my opinion of you for not choosing to grow up and respect everybody's beliefs.
I was raised in the church as a kid as my dad was from a very religious family, and my mom was a pastors daughter. Despite that and me going to sunday school, church, confirmation, my parents were not overbearing. I also chose science in pursuing a Geology degree so scientifically I can see reasons why to not be religious but I would never push an anti-religious agenda either.

eheththe internet is why

eheththe internet is why

VinnieFActually though. The wealth of information available to this generation is phenomenal compared to any other. Gone are the days of looking up information in books that may either be bs or outdated for school projects. Now I bet the first place 99% of students (in the developed world) look is Wikipedia. Facts based on science and reason are everywhere. How can you believe in something that is proven wrong to you every single day unless you actually bury your head in sand, where even 30 years ago it would be a very easy feat.

Mr.MittenIn my experience of going to church for 18 years of my life I've noticed that kids just really don't like the church vibe, especially in Catholicism, and that turns a lot of young people away. They don't feel engaged at mass/service and get bored, then they literally couldn't give a fuck what the priest says. Which is really unfortunate because even if you don't subscribe to all the biblical facts and what not, it's easy to draw really good lessons from just about any church service.

Also some younger people see it as kinda cool to shit on religion especially traditional practice. Just a way of defying their parents and seeming like they're doing something out of the norm.

I'm not sure if atheism is becoming increasingly popular, I'm sure it is, but I also see a growing amount of people considering themselves "spiritual" for lack of a better word. Probably gunna get shat on for using that one but I think it fits.

VailValleySkierI don't know, as I'm agnostic. I see atheists the same as I see other religious people.

Nobody can provide factual evidence of a god or gods existing, nor can anyone provide factual evidence of them not existing. It makes more sense to focus on being alive, than to focus on what comes after death.

onenerdykidIt's helpful to remember that atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive terms. For example, you can be an agnostic atheist:

There is a distinction between belief and knowledge, and I think we all know people in each of these categories. My parents would fall into the bottom left hand corner, while I fall into the top left hand corner. Anyone claiming to be on the right side of this chart has a lot of explaining to do.

.lenconDo you smoke weed/ partake of other drugs/hallocinogens?

onenerdykidNope. I'm just naturally nerdy.

milk_manI think one of the biggest reasons is that people want to do whatever they see as being right. In Christianity, that's not how it works. Millennials don't like being told what to do. I see many people saying that science and reason have been deciding factors, but I see that more as a background they use to justify their decision to not believe. They don't actually use that information, they just site "science" in general when saying that they aren't religious and don't believe in god.

As for people saying that it doesn't matter if it's real or not, listen to a quote by C.S. Lewis.. "Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."

The big decision isn't believing, the big decision is not believing. It would be wise to make sure you're right (you can't) before choosing to not believe.

onenerdykidOr people can be objectively ethical without Christianity? Not everyone is a moral relativist, far from it actually.

To your last point, using your logic, I would need to believe in unicorns since I can't prove they don't exist. I should also be a devout follower of Islam too, just in case they turn out to be right instead. How is any of that wise? In fact, the opposite is more true: I should only believe something to be true when I have sufficient evidence that it is true.

How you can think that anyone should be considered unwise for wanting evidence first before they believe something to be true is beyond me. Without evidence, you have no argument against why Islam is wrong and Christianity is right. It's just your holy book versus their's and that's hardly a convincing argument for knowing you are on the correct path towards eternal paradise or eternal damnation.

milk_manI think one of the biggest reasons is that people want to do whatever they see as being right. In Christianity, that's not how it works. Millennials don't like being told what to do. I see many people saying that science and reason have been deciding factors, but I see that more as a background they use to justify their decision to not believe. They don't actually use that information, they just site "science" in general when saying that they aren't religious and don't believe in god.

As for people saying that it doesn't matter if it's real or not, listen to a quote by C.S. Lewis.. "Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."

The big decision isn't believing, the big decision is not believing. It would be wise to make sure you're right (you can't) before choosing to not believe.

onenerdykidIt's helpful to remember that atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive terms. For example, you can be an agnostic atheist:

There is a distinction between belief and knowledge, and I think we all know people in each of these categories. My parents would fall into the bottom left hand corner, while I fall into the top left hand corner. Anyone claiming to be on the right side of this chart has a lot of explaining to do.

pomme-de-terrewell i was raised in a very jewish family and went to hebrew school before my barmitzvah and after that went on to eventually be confirmed and i used to chill and help out at the temple as i got older.

the straw that really broke the camels back was that me and another youth group instructor dude used to turn on the sinks and blaze weed in the temple bathroom. they told us we couldnt do that anymore, so then we would smoke on this bench in the garden, which was fine in the summer. but then they said we couldnt smoke there anymore either. so i was like "man, this shit is whack" and bailed on religion entirely.

milk_manLOL "no argument why Islam is wrong and Christianity is right" ... you're educated, aren't you? Tell me when the Quran was written and when the NT was written. "No argument"? come on dude don't be ridiculous. That's one of many. The Quran's biggest claim against Christianity has to do with Jesus. NT was written centuries before the Quran--and that's not an argument for why one is right and one is wrong about Jesus?

I'm starting to see that you don't actually want these facts.

VailValleySkierag·nos·tic
aɡˈnästik/
noun
1.
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

I'm just agnostic. I don't know and I believe nobody else knows either. Simple as that really. Used to be an atheist, but realized it was too much like other religions and just stopped caring about it all together and became agnostic... Life is much better not worrying about things that are out of your control.

onenerdykidSo your argument is the one that comes first is the right one? Please, that's more than absurd. Also, the NT was written down well after the death of Jesus, and completely based on biased testimony and hear-say. Great facts you have there. Islam also treats Jesus as a prophet, just not the son of God. Keep trying.

Show me your facts that sufficiently prove that the archangel Gabriel did not speak to Muhammad in a cave and give the FINAL revelation. You'll be the first person in history to do this. Therefore, using your logic, it is better to believe that this happened rather than face eternal damnation for believing the false revelations of Judaism and Christianity. You absolutely cannot prove that Islam is false.

You are literally blinded by your faith and will say anything in defense of it. That is a fact.



Using the dictionary to argue your point commits the fallacy of appeal to definition. There is more than the dictionary's take on the word and it is not an "end all, be all" for the definition or discussion. This is obvious because people can be a non-believer and a non-knower or a believer and a non-knower. Both are agnostic in terms of knowledge, but the element of belief very much distinguishes them from one another. These people exist, so we must take them into account.

I will totally grant you that no one is able to know these things- they are simply beyond our ability to perceive and measure, which are required for knowledge of any subject. Simply understanding concepts (like God or unicorn) does not mean we have knowledge of them, which is a mistake that quite a few people make.

milk_man"Well after the death of Jesus." How long was it? Enlighten me

onenerdykidHistorians put it anywhere from about 70 A.D. - 150 A.D (some Christian historians claim even into the 4th century). This is fairly standard history, where almost everyone agrees there is about 30-35 years of oral-only traditions without any written texts.

onenerdykidHistorians put it anywhere from about 70 A.D. - 150 A.D (some Christian historians claim even into the 4th century). This is fairly standard history, where almost everyone agrees there is about 30-35 years of oral-only traditions without any written texts.

milk_manAlso, I don't understand what you mean by "oral only traditions." The gospels were written by the men who say this stuff with their own eyes. No need for "oral traditions." There are also plenty of historians who deduce that the gospels were written before 70 AD. Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70, and it even fulfilled one of Jesus' prophesies. We can conclude that they would have written something about it had they written their accounts after 70 AD.

It's hard for us to understand what oral traditions are in this day and age. People in our culture mix up stories they heard last week. With the internet and everything else we don't excercise our memory as much as we should. So even if it was an "oral tradition" over the course of what--40 years? We can conclude that it would be extremely accurate.

onenerdykidListen to what you are saying... Passing an oral history down over 40 years is bound to become changed because people are imperfect and so are their feeble brains. When any history is passed on orally from person to person, it is bound to become changed or altered in some way. This is the exact problem with things that aren't written down. It's a problem now, it was a problem then, it was a problem when Homer was telling the stories of the Iliad and the Odyssey hundreds of years earlier. These men weren't perfect and they did not all have photographic memories, or even a basic grasp of the world around them so no we can't conclude that their memories would be extremely accurate.

milk_manLOL "no argument why Islam is wrong and Christianity is right" ... you're educated, aren't you? Tell me when the Quran was written and when the NT was written. "No argument"? come on dude don't be ridiculous. That's one of many. The Quran's biggest claim against Christianity has to do with Jesus. NT was written centuries before the Quran--and that's not an argument for why one is right and one is wrong about Jesus?

I'm starting to see that you don't actually want these facts.

onenerdykidShow me your facts that sufficiently prove that the archangel Gabriel did not speak to Muhammad in a cave and give the FINAL revelation. You'll be the first person in history to do this. Therefore, using your logic, it is better to believe that this happened rather than face eternal damnation for believing the false revelations of Judaism and Christianity. You absolutely cannot prove that Islam is false.

milk_manWhat I'm saying is that it was not an oral tradition.. the gospel writers are some of Jesus' disciples.... they saw it and they wrote it. No oral tradition

onenerdykidBut that's what they did - they told the stories for 40 years to many people, who then told them to others and so on and so on. So yes it was an oral tradition for 40 years before it became a written tradition.

milk_manBut that's irrelevant because the writings themselves came firsthand from the witnesses. The oral tradition doesn't affect the writings

onenerdykidSo your argument is the one that comes first is the right one? Please, that's more than absurd. Also, the NT was written down well after the death of Jesus, and completely based on biased testimony and hear-say. Great facts you have there. Islam also treats Jesus as a prophet, just not the son of God. Keep trying.

Show me your facts that sufficiently prove that the archangel Gabriel did not speak to Muhammad in a cave and give the FINAL revelation. You'll be the first person in history to do this. Therefore, using your logic, it is better to believe that this happened rather than face eternal damnation for believing the false revelations of Judaism and Christianity. You absolutely cannot prove that Islam is false.

You are literally blinded by your faith and will say anything in defense of it. That is a fact.



Using the dictionary to argue your point commits the fallacy of appeal to definition. There is more than the dictionary's take on the word and it is not an "end all, be all" for the definition or discussion. This is obvious because people can be a non-believer and a non-knower or a believer and a non-knower. Both are agnostic in terms of knowledge, but the element of belief very much distinguishes them from one another. These people exist, so we must take them into account.

I will totally grant you that no one is able to know these things- they are simply beyond our ability to perceive and measure, which are required for knowledge of any subject. Simply understanding concepts (like God or unicorn) does not mean we have knowledge of them, which is a mistake that quite a few people make.

ThunderChickenReligion is the root of most war, but it brings people together as well. I go to church, but sometimes I contemplate why everyone follows the rules of book that contradicts itself and was written 3000 years ago. Maybe it's a good thing maybe it isn't.

daannnnieeli don't believe that heaven and hell are a liable reason to base a lifestyle on, more or less. I'd rather enjoy my time here and not argue with people over completely unproven beliefs, evolution is more or less fact.


I do feel like it's good to learn morals from a young age, but if your parents are going to get a church to do that for them that's kinda just being lazy. my parents went to church and I was baptized and stuff but it's simply something that doesn't seem realistic.