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ON3P Kartel, MOMENT PB&J, or LINE Blend

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MiredFlunks
Posts: 25 - Karma: 30
Hey guys looking for some advice on a All-Mountain twin-tip shredder that can be stiff enough to hold up in powder, skiing trees, bowls, etc. and also be steady in the park and riding switch, doing butters.

Here are my current options:

Line Blend
Moment PB&J
ON3P Kartel 98's

I currently own a pair of line supernatural 92's that are pretty heavy and stiff for charging hard. So something more playful and center mounted is what I'm going after. Trying to mix in a little bit of park as well. Thx!! Any recommendations welcome.
Feb 12 2017 2:29PM
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MiredFlunks
Posts: 25 - Karma: 30
MiredFlunksHey guys looking for some advice on a All-Mountain twin-tip shredder that can be stiff enough to hold up in powder, skiing trees, bowls, etc. and also be steady in the park and riding switch, doing butters.

Here are my current options:

Line Blend
Moment PB&J
ON3P Kartel 98's

I currently own a pair of line supernatural 92's that are pretty heavy and stiff for charging hard. So something more playful and center mounted is what I'm going after. Trying to mix in a little bit of park as well. Thx!! Any recommendations welcome.


I'm 6'4 200 lbs advanced skier
Feb 12 2017 2:44PM
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marrows
Posts: 399 - Karma: 656
MiredFlunksHey guys looking for some advice on a All-Mountain twin-tip shredder that can be stiff enough to hold up in powder, skiing trees, bowls, etc. and also be steady in the park and riding switch, doing butters.

Here are my current options:

Line Blend
Moment PB&J
ON3P Kartel 98's

I currently own a pair of line supernatural 92's that are pretty heavy and stiff for charging hard. So something more playful and center mounted is what I'm going after. Trying to mix in a little bit of park as well. Thx!! Any recommendations welcome.


Kartels fit your requirements better than the others.
Feb 12 2017 2:58PM
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MiredFlunks
Posts: 25 - Karma: 30
marrowsKartels fit your requirements better than the others.


Are they typically center mounted? And what's your reasoning just curious. Thanks
Feb 12 2017 3:07PM
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marrows
Posts: 399 - Karma: 656
MiredFlunksAre they typically center mounted? And what's your reasoning just curious. Thanks


I mounted mine 1.5 cm back. Some people choose to center mount but I would not recommend if you want to ski some decent pow.

My reasoning is biased because I own a pair and love them. They are incredibly versatile and stable in all conditions, yet buttery because of the generous rocker.

I wouldn't buy blends because they won't do in pow, and durability is trash. PB&J's I can't comment on.

So yeah, I'm bias as fuck but Kartels are my go to for most things.
Feb 12 2017 3:23PM
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MiredFlunks
Posts: 25 - Karma: 30
marrowsI mounted mine 1.5 cm back. Some people choose to center mount but I would not recommend if you want to ski some decent pow.

My reasoning is biased because I own a pair and love them. They are incredibly versatile and stable in all conditions, yet buttery because of the generous rocker.

I wouldn't buy blends because they won't do in pow, and durability is trash. PB&J's I can't comment on.

So yeah, I'm bias as fuck but Kartels are my go to for most things.



Right on, great info. I was concerned about the durability of the blends as well. Any body have any experience with the PB&J for comparison
Feb 12 2017 4:51PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8886 - Karma: 35,768
MiredFlunksRight on, great info. I was concerned about the durability of the blends as well. Any body have any experience with the PB&J for comparison


Pb&j is a damn good ski. Had a couple buddies that used to ride them and they lovEd them. Pretty decent in the park but do well around the mountain too. I would say they are more on the harder snow than powder performance side of the spectrum though
Feb 12 2017 7:19PM
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Swandog7
Posts: 4955 - Karma: 9,021
ID honestly bring it down to the PB&J and the Kartel. Ive skied the Vice (Same ski but skinnier than the PB&J vigoursly and simply loved them, the flex was great) and have slightly touched the Kartel for like 3 runs. Ill honestly say these are probably 2 of hardest skis to choose from, so similar yet different. Both are bomb ass companies that I wouldn't hesitate buying from either. They will both last you roughly the same amount of time. You won't make a back choice here, and I can really only speak for Moment here, but pull the trigger and you'll make a great choice on both.
Feb 12 2017 7:34PM
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50Kal
Posts: 2828 - Karma: 5,373
On3p. I'm also biased but they make awesome skis.
Feb 12 2017 8:00PM
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MiredFlunks
Posts: 25 - Karma: 30
Between the Kartel 98 and PB&J (101 waist) which will preform better in 1-2 ft of pow? I'm trying to get more into the tree runs and Bowls as well. On the groomers both will handle excellent.
Feb 12 2017 9:15PM
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MiredFlunks
Posts: 25 - Karma: 30
Wondering which one floats better in pow for a skier my size 6'4 200 but can also hold the best edge in a cruddy bowl.
Feb 12 2017 9:19PM
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Session
Posts: 5375 - Karma: 22,077
Get a Kartel 108, you're a big boy. I ski the 108, and the 116. But if I had to, I could EASILY one ski quivere the 108.
Feb 12 2017 9:29PM
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Auschie
Posts: 297 - Karma: 392
MiredFlunksWondering which one floats better in pow for a skier my size 6'4 200 but can also hold the best edge in a cruddy bowl.


They are probably nearly identical. Just based on width the PB&J might float marginally better. I'd like to second what Session just said though. Get the 108. You're big and unless you ski >50% rails. And I'm talking wanting to 3 up every damn lap in the park then get the 108. I wish I had gotten it instead of the 98. Don't get me wrong though, the 98 is a bomb ski.
Feb 12 2017 10:49PM
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MiredFlunks
Posts: 25 - Karma: 30
AuschieThey are probably nearly identical. Just based on width the PB&J might float marginally better. I'd like to second what Session just said though. Get the 108. You're big and unless you ski >50% rails. And I'm talking wanting to 3 up every damn lap in the park then get the 108. I wish I had gotten it instead of the 98. Don't get me wrong though, the 98 is a bomb ski.


Interesting. I've just never skied anything that fat before. I see your point though, the Kartel 98 is pretty much a park ski. Would the 108 really be able to hold an edge on groomers and be as quick and playful as a 101 waist PB&J? Thanks for the input everybody. Keep in mind I'm a tall guy looking for something that's going to hold up in a ft or so of powder
Feb 13 2017 7:17AM
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Session
Posts: 5375 - Karma: 22,077
MiredFlunksInteresting. I've just never skied anything that fat before. I see your point though, the Kartel 98 is pretty much a park ski. Would the 108 really be able to hold an edge on groomers and be as quick and playful as a 101 waist PB&J? Thanks for the input everybody. Keep in mind I'm a tall guy looking for something that's going to hold up in a ft or so of powder


FWIW I got the K108 because I found myslef always wanting to ski the K116. Even when the conditions did not call for it. But it was just doing everything I wanted so well. Including skiing groomers with the family. My first day on them was a surprise pow day, and I never really felt myself needing/wanting more. They really hold up in the crud as well. I actually even sized down to 181 from the typical 186 that I usually ski.
Feb 13 2017 10:56AM
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No.Quarter
Posts: 5257 - Karma: 16,962
SessionGet a Kartel 108, you're a big boy. I ski the 108, and the 116. But if I had to, I could EASILY one ski quivere the 108.


This. From doing repairs on skis from moment on3p they are pretty similar in durability, you'd be getting a great ski if you went with the pb&j or the k98, however I wouldn't hesitate to jump to the 108, a lot of fatter skis aren't nearly as bad on hardpack as people think they are, you get used to it so fast and you will have more fun on the pow days. Line doesn't produce very durable skis imo and Blends are floppydong noodle skis, you'd fold them in half.
Feb 13 2017 10:00PM
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MiredFlunks
Posts: 25 - Karma: 30
No.QuarterThis. From doing repairs on skis from moment on3p they are pretty similar in durability, you'd be getting a great ski if you went with the pb&j or the k98, however I wouldn't hesitate to jump to the 108, a lot of fatter skis aren't nearly as bad on hardpack as people think they are, you get used to it so fast and you will have more fun on the pow days. Line doesn't produce very durable skis imo and Blends are floppydong noodle skis, you'd fold them in half.


Yeah I think for somebody my size the kartel108 or the PB&J would be good
Feb 14 2017 7:01AM
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Dddsz
Posts: 3042 - Karma: 7,324
MiredFlunksYeah I think for somebody my size the kartel108 or the PB&J would be good


The kartel 108 kicks the 98's ass in everything besides rail skiing. I have both and I just demoted the 98's to beater skis because I don't even feel like using them anymore.
Feb 14 2017 12:16PM
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MiredFlunks
Posts: 25 - Karma: 30
SconnieThe kartel 108 kicks the 98's ass in everything besides rail skiing. I have both and I just demoted the 98's to beater skis because I don't even feel like using them anymore.


So as far as an all mountain quiver ski for east and west coast the kartel108 would be best for a 6'3 190 pound guy. Any experience with the 190 length vs the 184
Feb 14 2017 12:28PM
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Dddsz
Posts: 3042 - Karma: 7,324
MiredFlunksSo as far as an all mountain quiver ski for east and west coast the kartel108 would be best for a 6'3 190 pound guy. Any experience with the 190 length vs the 184


You should go with the 191cm without a doubt at your size. I'm 6'1" 170 with the 191 and I toss them around like nothing. They have a ton of rocker and ski much shorter than they are.
Feb 14 2017 11:05PM
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tcurle
Posts: 1254 - Karma: 5,269
I ride the PBJ as my park ski. It's stiff and super fun if you like a wider ski underfoot. If you're on it outside of the park or in some pow it's not going to be comparable to a pow specific ski, but they still get the job done with their camber profile and pretty fat tip.
Feb 16 2017 3:41AM
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Colingarnes
Posts: 610 - Karma: 2,646
Feel bad reviving this thread but I'm a 5'11 165 pound intermediate-advanced skiier. Looking at the ARV 106 the Kartel 108 and the Moment PB&J. Do on piste playful riding, airs, and the occasional pow day. West coast skiier looking for a playful buttery ski that can hold it's own in the powder.
Mar 28 2018 3:26PM
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CLQ
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 11,260
ColingarnesFeel bad reviving this thread but I'm a 5'11 165 pound intermediate-advanced skiier. Looking at the ARV 106 the Kartel 108 and the Moment PB&J. Do on piste playful riding, airs, and the occasional pow day. West coast skiier looking for a playful buttery ski that can hold it's own in the powder.


Just want to say I really wish this blister article wasn't behind a paywall. It'd help out both of us.

http://blistergearreview.com/featured/deep-dive-armada-arv-106
Mar 28 2018 5:45PM
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FruitBootPro
Posts: 3079 - Karma: 13,690
CLQJust want to say I really wish this blister article wasn't behind a paywall. It'd help out both of us.

http://blistergearreview.com/featured/deep-dive-armada-arv-106


That gives me an idea...can we have one dude here pay for the Deep Dives then just copy and paste them all into this forum?
Mar 28 2018 9:35PM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
ColingarnesFeel bad reviving this thread but I'm a 5'11 165 pound intermediate-advanced skiier. Looking at the ARV 106 the Kartel 108 and the Moment PB&J. Do on piste playful riding, airs, and the occasional pow day. West coast skiier looking for a playful buttery ski that can hold it's own in the powder.


The Armada ARV 106 would be the lightest and softest flexing of that group. Fun, playful ski that does well all over the mountain. Next year’s model will be stiffer and add thicker edges along with a slightly different tip/tail taper.

Kartel 108 would be a bit heavier and stiffer than the ARV 106 so it handles speed, crud and park abuse better. Amazing build quality with bomb proof bases and edges. Kartel are the ultimate all mountain freestyle ski.

Moment PB&J are the narrowest and stiffest of the group. More of a playful charger ski than buttery ski. The Moment Deathwish would maybe be more similar to the Armada ARV 106 or Kartel 108 as it’s more playful than the Bibby or PB&J and would offer more float in powder than the PB&J.

From your description of what you like in a ski, the Kartel 108 would be my pick.
Mar 28 2018 9:49PM
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Colingarnes
Posts: 610 - Karma: 2,646
Greg_KThe Armada ARV 106 would be the lightest and softest flexing of that group. Fun, playful ski that does well all over the mountain. Next year’s model will be stiffer and add thicker edges along with a slightly different tip/tail taper.

Kartel 108 would be a bit heavier and stiffer than the ARV 106 so it handles speed, crud and park abuse better. Amazing build quality with bomb proof bases and edges. Kartel are the ultimate all mountain freestyle ski.

Moment PB&J are the narrowest and stiffest of the group. More of a playful charger ski than buttery ski. The Moment Deathwish would maybe be more similar to the Armada ARV 106 or Kartel 108 as it’s more playful than the Bibby or PB&J and would offer more float in powder than the PB&J.

From your description of what you like in a ski, the Kartel 108 would be my pick.


Damn man thanks for the in depth reply... I really feel with my light weight tho I'm gonna find the K108 a little stiff..thanks for the input on the pbj I'll toss it from consideration.

What if I were to throw in the j skis Vacation into consideration... Dunno how many people have experience with that ski...
Mar 29 2018 12:10AM
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CLQ
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 11,260
ColingarnesDamn man thanks for the in depth reply... I really feel with my light weight tho I'm gonna find the K108 a little stiff..thanks for the input on the pbj I'll toss it from consideration.

What if I were to throw in the j skis Vacation into consideration... Dunno how many people have experience with that ski...


You weigh 30 pounds more then me and im still considering the Kartel. I don't think it will be overly stiff for you, I haven't skiied the kartels yet though.
Mar 29 2018 1:04AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
ColingarnesDamn man thanks for the in depth reply... I really feel with my light weight tho I'm gonna find the K108 a little stiff..thanks for the input on the pbj I'll toss it from consideration.

What if I were to throw in the j skis Vacation into consideration... Dunno how many people have experience with that ski...


Kartels in a 181cm will be perfect for your weight-you’ll be able to flex them but won’t be overly soft for high speeds and through crud outside the park. Can order them softer(or stiffer) as well but don’t think you need to.

J Skis The Metal adds metal to stiffen and dampen the ski but it’s still playful and fun. Find most J Skis a little soft which is fine in the park and softer snow but won’t love higher speeds, harder snow etc.
Mar 29 2018 7:31AM
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TheRacker
Posts: 75 - Karma: 312
Other than waist width is there any difference between the K98(now 96) and the 108? I'm basically locked in on the K96 as my next all mountain west coast ski, because I already have pow skis and I've found that 90% of the time I'm skiing it's on hardpack or packed powder and because I don't live near a mountain I can't rely on regular snow, just have to deal with what I get when I do go out to ski. And in the past few years I've had basically no use for anything wider than my shreditor 102s. I'd rather have the quicker edge to edge speed and lighter weight because float hasn't mattered most days. Does the K108 offer more than just width?

sorry to jack the thread, just seemed like lots of good discussion around the kartels.

**This post was edited on Mar 29th 2018 at 10:46:07am
Mar 29 2018 10:45AM
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Greg_K
Posts: 947 - Karma: 2,718
TheRackerOther than waist width is there any difference between the K98(now 96) and the 108? I'm basically locked in on the K96 as my next all mountain west coast ski, because I already have pow skis and I've found that 90% of the time I'm skiing it's on hardpack or packed powder and because I don't live near a mountain I can't rely on regular snow, just have to deal with what I get when I do go out to ski. And in the past few years I've had basically no use for anything wider than my shreditor 102s. I'd rather have the quicker edge to edge speed and lighter weight because float hasn't mattered most days. Does the K108 offer more than just width?

sorry to jack the thread, just seemed like lots of good discussion around the kartels.

**This post was edited on Mar 29th 2018 at 10:46:07am


Sounds like the Kartel 96 would be the ski for you. The Kartel 108 adds a bit more weight and stiffness, so it’s a bit better through crud and more charging as well as improving the float in powder.

If you went up a size in the lighter and softer K96(181cm K108 vs 186 K96 for example) it would be more similar in crud and stability performance and be better on harder snow with its longer effective edge.
K96 should be a great ski!
Mar 29 2018 6:12PM
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gluik
Posts: 7 - Karma: 8
I’ve got kartel 98s center mounted and they ride well in powder regardless (I’ve only skied in abt 2 feet this year) but they are great imo. Better option for all mountain and park in my opinion than blends for sure especially if you are above about 180 like yourself
Apr 1 2018 12:32AM
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Big-Poppa
Posts: 62 - Karma: 183
TheRackerOther than waist width is there any difference between the K98(now 96) and the 108? I'm basically locked in on the K96 as my next all mountain west coast ski, because I already have pow skis and I've found that 90% of the time I'm skiing it's on hardpack or packed powder and because I don't live near a mountain I can't rely on regular snow, just have to deal with what I get when I do go out to ski. And in the past few years I've had basically no use for anything wider than my shreditor 102s. I'd rather have the quicker edge to edge speed and lighter weight because float hasn't mattered most days. Does the K108 offer more than just width?

sorry to jack the thread, just seemed like lots of good discussion around the kartels.

**This post was edited on Mar 29th 2018 at 10:46:07am


Listen to this interview with the founder of ON3P. http://blistergearreview.com/featured/on3p-skis-1819-lineup-ep-12
He gives a very in-depth explanation on the differences of each Kartel variant in the 2019 line up and even explains the changes from the 2018 K98 to the 2019 K96.
To start: for 2018, the K98 had the same same sidecut as the k108 but a different sidecut from the K116 - the k98/108 had the same sidecut that is also found on their park ski - the Magnus - while the larger K116 had more directional sidecut. However, the 2019 K96 now has a sidecut that matches K116 (per the interview). Furthermore, If ON3P keep the flex patterns the same as 2018 for their 2019 skis, the K108 will be a tad stiffer all around than the K96 (6-7-6 vs. 7-8-7). For 2018, the effective edges on both the K98 and the K108 were the same, I'm not sure if this will be true for 2019. The K116 is the only Kartel variant that has less effective edge at equal lengths of smaller Kartel variants (for now). I may be missing a few things but basically, from what I can gather, the 2018 K96 and K108 will be much more similar than the 2018 K98 and K108 were.

Hope this helps.

**This post was edited on Apr 1st 2018 at 7:07:53am
Apr 1 2018 5:10AM
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old.man.tibbles
Posts: 223 - Karma: 1,061
I've been on both the Kartel 108 and PB&J. Both are cool skis. For me, it seems like the more park you're riding in spring-like conditions the more you might prefer the Kartel 108. If you're into skiing fast and jumping off everything, the PB&J gets the nod.
Apr 2 2018 1:10PM
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