Tip technology

First of all, Rossi's tip fill is actually really nice but they just don't layer it properly. I've used the fill in my own set of skis and when layered normally with fiberglass around it, it creates an insanely light tip and tail that DOESN'T CHATTER. Why Rossi doesn't do that, I don't know and probably wont know but by adding other structural stuff in there, it doesn't effect powder performance at all and only helps groomer performance.
Second, the structure of skis is a small detail than you'd think in powder (Let the hate ensue here but hear me out). What really matters is the rocker/camber profile. Sure the structure matters but when you're in deep and fluffy powder, your main goal is to stay afloat and wider dimensions plus rocker will do that for you. I've ridden a couple of Rossi's skis with the tip technology and I have to say, their powder performance isn't as good as some of the other skis I've made/ridden. Is it because of their tip? I really don't know but I am just staying away from that brand for when im looking at skis. (The Rossi Blackops tho...I really like how they look in powder and big mtn performance)
As for Blizzard, haven't ridden them yet but I'm not into overly stiff chargy skis so I cant say anything about them yet. I recently got a pair of used 2013 Cochaise's though so hopefully they'll be super fun.

ZennanDo you guys believe that Rossignol's air tip technology works as well as they say it does? Personally, I believe that the tip chatter and the lightness of its tip prevents great control on anything besides powder, along with the result of edge control not being the best. It does, however, create an amazing flotation in powder. Especially with the newest Soul7 technology owning a tip that is lighter comprising more air than any other tip and tail on the market, which is pretty incredible. The tip technology I lean more towards is one of Blizzard's main ideas, with the main width of the tip coming after the contact points creating an amazing amount of stability at high speeds in any type of snow since there is more edge contact touching the snow with each turn. But, does it not reduce the flotation in deeper snow? Which tip technology do you guys believe has an overall better result, or any other tip technology you all know of?

on3p brah

ZypherFirst of all, Rossi's tip fill is actually really nice but they just don't layer it properly. I've used the fill in my own set of skis and when layered normally with fiberglass around it, it creates an insanely light tip and tail that DOESN'T CHATTER. Why Rossi doesn't do that, I don't know and probably wont know but by adding other structural stuff in there, it doesn't effect powder performance at all and only helps groomer performance.
Second, the structure of skis is a small detail than you'd think in powder (Let the hate ensue here but hear me out). What really matters is the rocker/camber profile. Sure the structure matters but when you're in deep and fluffy powder, your main goal is to stay afloat and wider dimensions plus rocker will do that for you. I've ridden a couple of Rossi's skis with the tip technology and I have to say, their powder performance isn't as good as some of the other skis I've made/ridden. Is it because of their tip? I really don't know but I am just staying away from that brand for when im looking at skis. (The Rossi Blackops tho...I really like how they look in powder and big mtn performance)
As for Blizzard, haven't ridden them yet but I'm not into overly stiff chargy skis so I cant say anything about them yet. I recently got a pair of used 2013 Cochaise's though so hopefully they'll be super fun.

Wow that's super interesting. How did you develop the tips? Did you build it yourself with a CNC or something? Did you construct the tip with the same amount of early tip rise as well? For sure that has an incredible amount of effect on the tip chatter that their air tips are so well known for.

But no, I completely agree with you rocker/camber profile does for sure matter in the main goal to keep one afloat. I was just more so trying to solely focus on the tip construction of the various ski companies to discern which overall has the best properties to it, mostly to stoke curiosity. By the way... my brother actually rides a pair of 2013 Cochise's and he says they are by far the most unbelievable ski he has ever ridden in his life. He loves how hard they can charge and the edge control they have on them while he can still whip them around with all the sheets of metal and 108 waist through tight trees pretty impressively I may say. I do not believe based on the way he talks about them that they are only a charge ski, and if you didn't get it from the previous statement, he is a tree skier before charger for surrre, but he charges the trees to lol. Personally I have only ridden the Bonefides and I absolutely LOVE the tip shape and construction and the unbelievable edge to edge contact I get and control I get. I just do not feel the same way with the Rossi tip. Did you shape it the same as well?

ZennanWow that's super interesting. How did you develop the tips? Did you build it yourself with a CNC or something? Did you construct the tip with the same amount of early tip rise as well? For sure that has an incredible amount of effect on the tip chatter that their air tips are so well known for.

But no, I completely agree with you rocker/camber profile does for sure matter in the main goal to keep one afloat. I was just more so trying to solely focus on the tip construction of the various ski companies to discern which overall has the best properties to it, mostly to stoke curiosity. By the way... my brother actually rides a pair of 2013 Cochise's and he says they are by far the most unbelievable ski he has ever ridden in his life. He loves how hard they can charge and the edge control they have on them while he can still whip them around with all the sheets of metal and 108 waist through tight trees pretty impressively I may say. I do not believe based on the way he talks about them that they are only a charge ski, and if you didn't get it from the previous statement, he is a tree skier before charger for surrre, but he charges the trees to lol. Personally I have only ridden the Bonefides and I absolutely LOVE the tip shape and construction and the unbelievable edge to edge contact I get and control I get. I just do not feel the same way with the Rossi tip. Did you shape it the same as well?

I constructed my skis based on the standard layup from Community Skis (the company I work for) but instead of using 3 layers of our normal fill I used the Rossi fill. My shape in the skis was different but the rocker profiles were very similar and considering I built my sticks with a soft flex they should have chattered more yeah? But they are super solid with the layup i did and im pretty stoked on them.
Ive been riding the JJ Zeros as my designated pow skis and damn are they light and fun. They don't chatter that much at Mach speeds and are very nice to whip around in the fluffy stuff. I do have a pair of Icelantic Gypsys (renamed the Nomad 125 for this year) and they are my all time favorite skis. Best edge hold out of anything I've ridden (big mtn wise) and super butterable and surfy in powder. They have a lower rocker profile so they don't float as well as the JJs in over a foot of snow but they are 10x as fun imo. Worth a checkout if you could demo them.

ZypherI constructed my skis based on the standard layup from Community Skis (the company I work for) but instead of using 3 layers of our normal fill I used the Rossi fill. My shape in the skis was different but the rocker profiles were very similar and considering I built my sticks with a soft flex they should have chattered more yeah? But they are super solid with the layup i did and im pretty stoked on them.
Ive been riding the JJ Zeros as my designated pow skis and damn are they light and fun. They don't chatter that much at Mach speeds and are very nice to whip around in the fluffy stuff. I do have a pair of Icelantic Gypsys (renamed the Nomad 125 for this year) and they are my all time favorite skis. Best edge hold out of anything I've ridden (big mtn wise) and super butterable and surfy in powder. They have a lower rocker profile so they don't float as well as the JJs in over a foot of snow but they are 10x as fun imo. Worth a checkout if you could demo them.

Woah dude I love it! I'm in the process of building my own stuff and that for sure is some nice things to hear and a great way to be innovative my man! I actually have watched and tried to learn a few things from you guys on youtube and just in general wherever I can find info on this stuff hahah, it's for sure a frickin art form though! Have you ever thought about doing the same idea of the tip tech they use and essentially imply it over a greater mass of the ski to decrease the weight of it and still let the glass compensate for it? By this I mean using stuff like honeycomb woven glass or just more tip fill/rubber spread out throughout the ski and decrease the weight of maybe the wood or glass to give it an even better stability? I have been thinking of implying something of the sorts for a while, but just thought it will probably add an overall mass to be much greater and may hold a great edge and be very well dampened, but with a great increase of weight unless you can find a way to shave it off enough somewhere else.

ZennanWoah dude I love it! I'm in the process of building my own stuff and that for sure is some nice things to hear and a great way to be innovative my man! I actually have watched and tried to learn a few things from you guys on youtube and just in general wherever I can find info on this stuff hahah, it's for sure a frickin art form though! Have you ever thought about doing the same idea of the tip tech they use and essentially imply it over a greater mass of the ski to decrease the weight of it and still let the glass compensate for it? By this I mean using stuff like honeycomb woven glass or just more tip fill/rubber spread out throughout the ski and decrease the weight of maybe the wood or glass to give it an even better stability? I have been thinking of implying something of the sorts for a while, but just thought it will probably add an overall mass to be much greater and may hold a great edge and be very well dampened, but with a great increase of weight unless you can find a way to shave it off enough somewhere else.

Haha that's awesome man! I think Mike is the one that did the videos but it's kinda crazy to see how the building process we use has changed from the time he made those to now. Even when I first started working there about 7-8 months ago, we've revamped most of our process but our layups have always been the same. (Don't think I'm allowed to share how we do it but it's definitely not rocket science). My word for you is that if you are going to use the Rossi fill, make sure you inlay it a bit and don't leave it exposed. I had delam on my set because the water expands the material and the expoxy doesn't bind it as well when wet. A full legnth version of that fill however does sound very interesting. What I've noticed from pressing it is that it doesn't flatten any more than the thickness you get it in. It's about the thickness of three pieces of triax when pressed so maybe layering one underneath and one above would work? Although having different fills( tri, bi, etc.) all do different things to the ski. Building your own set is a trial and error process that takes time to refine and perfect so you may see yourself going through three or four pairs until you get to ones that preform how you like and won't explode from experimental building techniques.

I don't know if you checked out our website but we do workshops where we take you through every step of building a ski and if you wanted to experiment a bit during that, I'm sure we'd be open to it. (Idk how much our set price is for that tho) and we even are building workshops for people, businesses, and schools to teach more people the building process. I was talking with Mike the other day and he was saying that building skis is cool and all but what he really likes about all of this is the learning and teaching aspect. By making workshops and stuff, we are teaching more and more people every aspect of a ski and what parts of the building process lead to which outcome. Now, I talk a lot on these forums about skis (I'm sure you can just pop your head in a few threads and see my name) but being 16 I am able to learn what's going on in the industry right now and apply that to future years in my life. It's kinda my dream job to either start my own company or be hired by an existing one to design and test skis based on intended performance and by seeing trends happen from before my years and during, I can apply that to the future and probably create some mind boggling designs that will either turn out to be amazing or complete crap haha. Even in just my last 14 years of skiing I've seen people go from full camber everywhere to mass introduction of rocker in every type of ski.

Tl;dr I honestly don't know where im going with this tangent but building skis is about risk, trial, and error. Before even designing a ski, you need to look at your materials you want to build with and materials that have been built with and see if they will even work. After checking that and pressing your sticks, try and beat the everliving shit out of them and see where their weaknesses are. Then, modify, re-press, mount, and try again!

ZennanWoah dude I love it! I'm in the process of building my own stuff and that for sure is some nice things to hear and a great way to be innovative my man! I actually have watched and tried to learn a few things from you guys on youtube and just in general wherever I can find info on this stuff hahah, it's for sure a frickin art form though! Have you ever thought about doing the same idea of the tip tech they use and essentially imply it over a greater mass of the ski to decrease the weight of it and still let the glass compensate for it? By this I mean using stuff like honeycomb woven glass or just more tip fill/rubber spread out throughout the ski and decrease the weight of maybe the wood or glass to give it an even better stability? I have been thinking of implying something of the sorts for a while, but just thought it will probably add an overall mass to be much greater and may hold a great edge and be very well dampened, but with a great increase of weight unless you can find a way to shave it off enough somewhere else.

Aaaand I didn't even answer your main question in that last tangent haha. Anyways, that material is stupidly light so not tapering the cores as much and having a full inlay of that would give you a stiff and chargy ski that would be super light right? Well, you also have to account for when the core ends at the tip and tail. The joints there need to be reinforced to the ski doesn't just snap when you lean back or forwards. You could probably do a full inlay of the honeycomb but you'll need some more types of fill to help the overall structural integrity of the ski.

Now you have me thinking... Biax fill + honeycomb + carbon inlays would give you a ski that's not only light as the fuck but durable, snappy, and responsive. Throw a 116 waist on a 184cm ski, give a tip/tail ratio for a ~20m turn radius, rocker tip and tail, a quarter inch (or less) camber underfoot, and just a tad of early taper in tip and tail for some swing weight reduction and you have the ultimate big mountain jib/huck machine!

ZypherNow you have me thinking... Biax fill + honeycomb + carbon inlays would give you a ski that's not only light as the fuck but durable, snappy, and responsive. Throw a 116 waist on a 184cm ski, give a tip/tail ratio for a ~20m turn radius, rocker tip and tail, a quarter inch (or less) camber underfoot, and just a tad of early taper in tip and tail for some swing weight reduction and you have the ultimate big mountain jib/huck machine!

wait I just described the JJ Zeros... maybe if the waist was dropped from a 116 to say a 104 you'd have an amazing all mtn ripper or touring setup?

ZypherHaha that's awesome man! I think Mike is the one that did the videos but it's kinda crazy to see how the building process we use has changed from the time he made those to now. Even when I first started working there about 7-8 months ago, we've revamped most of our process but our layups have always been the same. (Don't think I'm allowed to share how we do it but it's definitely not rocket science). My word for you is that if you are going to use the Rossi fill, make sure you inlay it a bit and don't leave it exposed. I had delam on my set because the water expands the material and the expoxy doesn't bind it as well when wet. A full legnth version of that fill however does sound very interesting. What I've noticed from pressing it is that it doesn't flatten any more than the thickness you get it in. It's about the thickness of three pieces of triax when pressed so maybe layering one underneath and one above would work? Although having different fills( tri, bi, etc.) all do different things to the ski. Building your own set is a trial and error process that takes time to refine and perfect so you may see yourself going through three or four pairs until you get to ones that preform how you like and won't explode from experimental building techniques.

I don't know if you checked out our website but we do workshops where we take you through every step of building a ski and if you wanted to experiment a bit during that, I'm sure we'd be open to it. (Idk how much our set price is for that tho) and we even are building workshops for people, businesses, and schools to teach more people the building process. I was talking with Mike the other day and he was saying that building skis is cool and all but what he really likes about all of this is the learning and teaching aspect. By making workshops and stuff, we are teaching more and more people every aspect of a ski and what parts of the building process lead to which outcome. Now, I talk a lot on these forums about skis (I'm sure you can just pop your head in a few threads and see my name) but being 16 I am able to learn what's going on in the industry right now and apply that to future years in my life. It's kinda my dream job to either start my own company or be hired by an existing one to design and test skis based on intended performance and by seeing trends happen from before my years and during, I can apply that to the future and probably create some mind boggling designs that will either turn out to be amazing or complete crap haha. Even in just my last 14 years of skiing I've seen people go from full camber everywhere to mass introduction of rocker in every type of ski.

Tl;dr I honestly don't know where im going with this tangent but building skis is about risk, trial, and error. Before even designing a ski, you need to look at your materials you want to build with and materials that have been built with and see if they will even work. After checking that and pressing your sticks, try and beat the everliving shit out of them and see where their weaknesses are. Then, modify, re-press, mount, and try again!

Ya that's sick! I do know about the shops ya'll do, I just don't live near you guys lol. But I know I feel you there with owning a ski company it'd be so super sick! I'm studying engineering right now and just kinda working on the skis on the side, so we will see how it goes!

But ya that description you were saying was kinda what I was thinking but I really don't know how much lighter it would make it because glass is for sure lighter than any rubber material though. Maybe at a 104 waist or something like you said would work? I don't know maybe you can convince the guys over there to build a pair and lemme know how it turns out :p lol