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My Experience with Jason Levinthal (Beware)

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raditude
Posts: 14 - Karma: 47
So I've heard nothing but good things about J Skis. I work in the ski industry as a adaptive ski instructor, so 20% off plus their payment plan option seemed like a no-brainer. I bought a pair of the Invisible Whipits and after my first time using them I noticed a small crack on the topsheet of one of my tips. I figured it was nothing but after 7 times riding there were multiple of these cracks on the tips and tails of both skis, and one of the cracks expanded into large crack all the way across the ski. I'm new to the park on skis so a couple jumps here and there and some boxes is the extent of my ability. The rest of the time I was cruising groomers.

I sent J Skis an email and to my surprise Jason Levinthal called me back at 10:30 PM. At this point the customer service was great. He asked me what happened and I told him that I hadn't ran into anything, I've used the skis 7 times and that these cracks were showing up. He continued to say that my story was "bullshit" and that my ski was "totally fucked so there was no way I didn't run into anything." He told me that he was not going to send me new skis, the best he could do was send me a used ski, with a different graphic and I would have to pay shipping costing me $50 plus mounting the binding.

J also said that the tiny cracks were completely normal and that it occurs when the skier tail/nose presses or butters too hard. Considering he markets the WhipIt as a park ski I found this very surprising that the skis wouldn't be built to last.

I told him I would think about it and call back the next day. After discussion with the boys in the local ski shop, I told Jason that I would like to return the skis and that I either wanted a full refund of a new pair of skis. He replied asking me what I wanted and I ended up asking for a refund because I was wary of getting another pair and having the same thing happen. This is where it gets good.

J Skis ignored any phone call or email from me for 3 days before finally replying giving me the address to return my skis to. Finally I have mailed off the skis and am awaiting a refund from the company.

In my honest opinion, J skis are not worth the money, their customer service is very unorganized and unproffesional, and overall would not recommend them to anyone.
Jan 29 2017 4:42PM
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Dddsz
Posts: 3042 - Karma: 7,326
Why would you buy white skis? That is the real question here.
Jan 29 2017 7:41PM
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TDD536
Posts: 160 - Karma: 147
raditudeHe continued to say that my story was "bullshit" and that my ski was "totally fucked so there was no way I didn't run into anything."


Seems like some hyperbole here, but it still sucks that your out a pair of skis. From your pictures it looks almost like vinyl wrapping being wrinkled, but i'm not sure as to the method J implements for his topsheets. This is why I like to stick with established brands, no matter the 'core brand' or 'innovative home-made technologies' argument. Go for higher end K2s, Lines, Atmoics, Salomons, Volkls, and heads. Lower end models show that in their durability and build quality. Anything you buy from ON3P, Armada, 4FRNT, or Icelantic won't disappoint you like J did.
Jan 29 2017 7:53PM
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raditude
Posts: 14 - Karma: 47
TDD536Seems like some hyperbole here, but it still sucks that your out a pair of skis. From your pictures it looks almost like vinyl wrapping being wrinkled, but i'm not sure as to the method J implements for his topsheets. This is why I like to stick with established brands, no matter the 'core brand' or 'innovative home-made technologies' argument. Go for higher end K2s, Lines, Atmoics, Salomons, Volkls, and heads. Lower end models show that in their durability and build quality. Anything you buy from ON3P, Armada, 4FRNT, or Icelantic won't disappoint you like J did.


I'm now looking into getting the ARV96s or the Nomad 95s, which would you recommend?
Jan 29 2017 8:56PM
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TDD536
Posts: 160 - Karma: 147
raditudeI'm now looking into getting the ARV96s or the Nomad 95s, which would you recommend?


I'd assume since you bought the whipits your looking for a noddle. the arv96s are noodles.
Jan 29 2017 8:58PM
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TDD536
Posts: 160 - Karma: 147
TDD536I'd assume since you bought the whipits your looking for a noddle. the arv96s are noodles.


i can't spell. The k2 poachers are a good option too.
Jan 29 2017 9:01PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5240 - Karma: 20,807
so you cracked the tip on your ski and are pissed that he offered you both a new one for just the cost of shipping or a refund on your purchase

wtf do you want a free blowjob too? you would have gotten neither of those offers from pretty much any other company no matter how you broke them
Jan 29 2017 10:12PM
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saskskier
Posts: 4774 - Karma: 10,005
You're upset that a super small company didn't get back to you leading up to/during XGames/SIA week (unless this happened a while ago) and when they did, you got what you wanted? Not answering immediately does not mean you were being ignored.
Jan 29 2017 10:29PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
TDD536I'd assume since you bought the whipits your looking for a noddle. the arv96s are noodles.


TDD536i can't spell. The k2 poachers are a good option too.


neither of those skis are noodles man I have no idea what you are talking about. The poachers are actually stiff as fuck.

and to OP, my friend had the same thing happen to a pair of his whipits and he did not get refunded so I don't honestly know how you are complaining about this. If I were running a ski company I would also call bullshit if I heard that you never ran into anything with damage like that. There is no proof, so there is no reason why he should believe you. I'm not saying you are lying, but if you are realistic in this situation, you have to remember that he is running a business and putting trust into people you dont know is not something that is always smart to do.
Jan 29 2017 10:53PM
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TDD536
Posts: 160 - Karma: 147
parkplaygroundneither of those skis are noodles man I have no idea what you are talking about. The poachers are actually stiff as fuck.

and to OP, my friend had the same thing happen to a pair of his whipits and he did not get refunded so I don't honestly know how you are complaining about this. If I were running a ski company I would also call bullshit if I heard that you never ran into anything with damage like that. There is no proof, so there is no reason why he should believe you. I'm not saying you are lying, but if you are realistic in this situation, you have to remember that he is running a business and putting trust into people you dont know is not something that is always smart to do.


I never said that the k2 poachers are a noodle, I said they were a good option since there's enough rocker to butter and enough stiffness to charge harder.
Jan 30 2017 12:27AM
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BenWhit
Posts: 4654 - Karma: 3,257
a_burgerso you cracked the tip on your ski and are pissed that he offered you both a new one for just the cost of shipping or a refund on your purchase

wtf do you want a free blowjob too? you would have gotten neither of those offers from pretty much any other company no matter how you broke them


he offered him a used ski with a mistmatch graphic for the price of shipping as compensation, so, not quite.
Jan 30 2017 3:04PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
BenWhithe offered him a used ski with a mistmatch graphic for the price of shipping as compensation, so, not quite.


It is still much more than what plenty of other companies would do. I know that the factory making J's had some serious defects in this production run this season. Getting skis from another year is honestly a good thing.
Jan 30 2017 3:11PM
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SammyDubz
Posts: 2168 - Karma: 7,222
You're an enormous kook
Jan 30 2017 4:05PM
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BenWhit
Posts: 4654 - Karma: 3,257
parkplaygroundIt is still much more than what plenty of other companies would do. I know that the factory making J's had some serious defects in this production run this season. Getting skis from another year is honestly a good thing.


I seriously doubt that is the case. A pretty quick google search would indicate that virtually ever ski company allows the purchaser to make a claim against manufacturing defects. Granted, the impetus is on the purchaser to provide burden of proof that the damage was a result of manufacturing defect. A warranty is a legally binding contract, so if the company fails to provide compensation per the contact for what is obviously a defect, they are breaking that contract. Compensation, in this case, is almost always new ski(s). Not used, or mismatched, skis.

If J has issues from their factory, that is 100% their problem and they should be warrantying any ski or set of skis that is found to have manufacturing defects. That is basic customer relations; Customer Relations 101, if you will.
Jan 30 2017 5:14PM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
BenWhitI seriously doubt that is the case. A pretty quick google search would indicate that virtually ever ski company allows the purchaser to make a claim against manufacturing defects. Granted, the impetus is on the purchaser to provide burden of proof that the damage was a result of manufacturing defect. A warranty is a legally binding contract, so if the company fails to provide compensation per the contact for what is obviously a defect, they are breaking that contract. Compensation, in this case, is almost always new ski(s). Not used, or mismatched, skis.

If J has issues from their factory, that is 100% their problem and they should be warrantying any ski or set of skis that is found to have manufacturing defects. That is basic customer relations; Customer Relations 101, if you will.


My point wasnt about warranties, it was about proving it was a defect. It wasnt a question of if a company should warranty skis, it was if it was a justified situation to warranty them.
Jan 31 2017 3:00AM
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BenWhit
Posts: 4654 - Karma: 3,257
parkplaygroundMy point wasnt about warranties, it was about proving it was a defect. It wasnt a question of if a company should warranty skis, it was if it was a justified situation to warranty them.


You really didn't do that, though. I get it, JSkis is a core brand and carries some rapport around here for being so, but that doesn't preclude them from taking responsibility for defective products. It's pretty easy to see that the damage to the tips of both skis is well outside of normal wear and tear. Barring some sort of collision where the OP would have gone tips first in to some kind of obstacle (he probably wouldn't be here to tell the tale), this is 100% a result of manufacturer defect.
Jan 31 2017 9:23AM
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Revelinyourstoke
Posts: 125 - Karma: 61
parkplaygroundIt is still much more than what plenty of other companies would.


With the customers I deal with, I actually find that the larger companies are a lot more forgiving and very straight forward.
Feb 9 2017 3:53PM
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Casey
Posts: 7887 - Karma: 24,860
The one ski with the giant fracture in the topsheet looks like impact to me, but all the mini stress fractures in the other ski really doesnt, IMO. Also, it seems odd that they would both do that.

I see a lot of these threads on here, and everyone is always really quick to judge one way or another. We don't know what happened. Maybe you forgot to lock your ski rack and they flew off on the freeway at 80mph. The only thing I will say is the "public callout" method is not going to get you what you want. If you truly have a manufacturing defect in your skis, then your inability to effectively communicate that to J Skis and get what you want is at least partially on you.

If it were me and I got rejected, I would thank him for his time, say I hope you change your mind I love your skis and I want to support your company and keep skiing them until something gets worse and try again. Hey it's me again, my skis are now delamming, what kind of compromise can we work out here. I am coming to you again in good faith because I want to continue to be a happy customer, when is a good time to discuss this in detail?

I feel like with some proper business etiquette a lot more bitchy teenagers would be getting their skis warranteed.
Feb 10 2017 12:09AM
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
BenWhitYou really didn't do that, though. I get it, JSkis is a core brand and carries some rapport around here for being so, but that doesn't preclude them from taking responsibility for defective products. It's pretty easy to see that the damage to the tips of both skis is well outside of normal wear and tear. Barring some sort of collision where the OP would have gone tips first in to some kind of obstacle (he probably wouldn't be here to tell the tale), this is 100% a result of manufacturer defect.

Not sure how I missed this, but I definitely did. Warranties are implied with any legitimate ski company. I wouldn't be mentioning what I did if the basic requirements weren't obvious. I have zero interest whether J is a core company or not in this situation. It is more important to determine the size of the company and its limitations. J can't just pump out new skis if the current run is defective like some larger companies can do, so with what he has (mismatched skis that are literally just a different graphic, and possibly lightly used) to offer up to the customer. It is obviously not ideal, but it is something that can't be so easily overlooked. Say he just gives you another pair of new skis from this year. The same thing might happen again and the process will repeat. If he gives you skis that dont have that defect you are in the clear, despite some use on them.

Now if the skis fall under warranty or not, I already said I would highly question it based off of principle, but yes. They look like they should be warrantied.
RevelinyourstokeWith the customers I deal with, I actually find that the larger companies are a lot more forgiving and very straight forward.

I have had the opposite experiences with Nordica, and I have had friends get less than ideal responses from Volkl. I dont have anything bad to say about either of these companies though. I can recognize the reality of running these types of businesses and what goes into their decision making. OP is quite salty (understandably), but public callouts are immature and just cause drama. J has made a point to shut down these threads in the past. He must not have seen this one.
Feb 10 2017 1:29AM
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doitbig
Posts: 4818 - Karma: 315
CaseyThe one ski with the giant fracture in the topsheet looks like impact to me, but all the mini stress fractures in the other ski really doesnt, IMO. Also, it seems odd that they would both do that.

I see a lot of these threads on here, and everyone is always really quick to judge one way or another. We don't know what happened. Maybe you forgot to lock your ski rack and they flew off on the freeway at 80mph. The only thing I will say is the "public callout" method is not going to get you what you want. If you truly have a manufacturing defect in your skis, then your inability to effectively communicate that to J Skis and get what you want is at least partially on you.

If it were me and I got rejected, I would thank him for his time, say I hope you change your mind I love your skis and I want to support your company and keep skiing them until something gets worse and try again. Hey it's me again, my skis are now delamming, what kind of compromise can we work out here. I am coming to you again in good faith because I want to continue to be a happy customer, when is a good time to discuss this in detail?

I feel like with some proper business etiquette a lot more bitchy teenagers would be getting their skis warranteed.


Best advice in the thread. Also worth noting - if you get any sort of pro-form or industry discounts warranties typically DO NOT apply.
Feb 11 2017 5:00PM
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Revelinyourstoke
Posts: 125 - Karma: 61
parkplaygroundI have had the opposite experiences with Nordica, and I have had friends get less than ideal responses from Volkl. I dont have anything bad to say about either of these companies though. I can recognize the reality of running these types of businesses and what goes into their decision making. OP is quite salty (understandably), but public callouts are immature and just cause drama. J has made a point to shut down these threads in the past. He must not have seen this one.


Had a customer bring in a delaminating ski and after a five-minute conversation on the phone with the Volkl rep, we had a pair in the mail three days later. I would have told her to pound sand.
Feb 11 2017 6:53PM
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Revelinyourstoke
Posts: 125 - Karma: 61
doitbigBest advice in the thread. Also worth noting - if you get any sort of pro-form or industry discounts warranties typically DO NOT apply.


Holds true short of shipping damage.
Feb 11 2017 8:47PM
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Kundera
Posts: 323 - Karma: 3,605
Any other review of the whipit ? I wanted to buy it, but, obviously, not so much sure anymore ... if only the topsheet isn't durable it could be ok, don't really care.

Anyone did the season with these skis ?
Apr 9 2017 11:55AM
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