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Skis made specifically for Urban

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lgski
Posts: 1832 - Karma: 2,291
Has anyone ever thought of designing skis specifically for Urban? Much like how twin tips were invented in the first place to cater to this new type form of skiing, and had some pretty drastic differences from the alpine racing skis in terms of construction and features, i think skis made for the purpose of urban could be a good idea. Urban is definitely becoming more popular every season, with lots of pros/kids only putting out urban parts and the addition of events like Xgames real ski/ real snow.

Some things that could be different include construction, as weight of the skis is not as important as normal freestyle skis. Also edges could possibly be omitted since for 90% of urban features you don't need to make any turns. reinforced plates underfoot could help increase durability. All in all, this could lead to not going through multiple pairs of planks every season for the people that hit strictly urban for their parts.

Any body have some other ideas/thoughts on this?
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Jan 23 2017 9:13PM
61 3
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suup
Posts: 1485 - Karma: 4,369
vishnu dude
Jan 23 2017 10:33PM
30 1
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tdollo
Posts: 3832 - Karma: 19,216
Surface Blanks
Jan 23 2017 10:38PM
13 1
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TroyAntipasta
Posts: 444 - Karma: 535
tdolloSurface Blanks


Came in here to say this
Jan 23 2017 10:55PM
6 0
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Park.
Posts: 2480 - Karma: 4,582
A big problem to this idea is that the R&D for making skis like that is not worth it for companies since there is such a small niche of people who would actually buy these skis (people who take skiing seriously enough to do urban but don't have sponsors yet). on top of the skis being very expensive to make since there is the possibility of a change in basic design/construction when you are talking about such drastic changes (this may or may not be accurate, depending on what changes you make) that cause the actual ski to be expensive as balls to make up for the costs of R&D, smaller quantity materials, and a smaller niche.
Jan 23 2017 11:47PM
12 0
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jakeordie
Posts: 664 - Karma: 3,277
It's an interesting idea, thinking about how skis would be different if they were made specifically for urban.....and then, how would urban change because of them.

Like skateboarding on clay wheels back in the day, those dudes could hardly imagine what skateboarders today can do.
Jan 24 2017 1:46AM
3 0
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lgski
Posts: 1832 - Karma: 2,291
jakeordieIt's an interesting idea, thinking about how skis would be different if they were made specifically for urban.....and then, how would urban change because of them.

Like skateboarding on clay wheels back in the day, those dudes could hardly imagine what skateboarders today can do.


this is pretty much the thought process that i had when i was typing out the OP. Not so much from an existing ski company perspective does it make business sense, but would it push skiing even further and allow us to hit even gnarlier features.

For example, the omission of edges would allow skiers to slide easier on non metal surfaces like wood and concrete.
Jan 24 2017 2:23AM
3 0
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lgski
Posts: 1832 - Karma: 2,291
parkplaygroundA big problem to this idea is that the R&D for making skis like that is not worth it for companies since there is such a small niche of people who would actually buy these skis (people who take skiing seriously enough to do urban but don't have sponsors yet). on top of the skis being very expensive to make since there is the possibility of a change in basic design/construction when you are talking about such drastic changes (this may or may not be accurate, depending on what changes you make) that cause the actual ski to be expensive as balls to make up for the costs of R&D, smaller quantity materials, and a smaller niche.


That is the downfall of this idea for sure, with cost of making skis already being so high. As to your point about the market being so niche, I think that any time someone innovates they have to take the risk that it might not catch on and hope for the best.

What actually sparked this idea was reading the "about" page on armada's website,

"The idea was inspired by a void.
In the early 2000’s how people skied was changing, but legacy ski companies continued to anchor their identities in alpine racing. What came to be known as freeskiing was a departure from anything that had come before – it shared more in common with the freedom of snowboarding, skateboarding and surfing than it did with anything seen in skiing at the time. This new movement left more to the imagination, and there was a shared sentiment among a new generation of skiers that the style and progression they were pursuing should be celebrated. The time had come for a company that did exactly that."

They go on to say that their slogan at the time was "Armada, what skiing will become". Obviously this is a less extreme change in the direction of the sport, but I think the same philosophy applies here.

TLDR: take risk in niche market, hope it blows up just like how twin tips caught on in the first place.
Jan 24 2017 2:34AM
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lgski
Posts: 1832 - Karma: 2,291
Also, these changes can be as minuscule or as massive as they need to be depending on the intent. Will different base material eventually mean that snow isn't really needed and maybe just water on concrete would suffice? That would sure open the door to hitting features in different climates. Imagine the opportunities in places like San Fran or some south american cities like Valparaiso

Jan 24 2017 2:43AM
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jakeordie
Posts: 664 - Karma: 3,277
lgskiWill different base material eventually mean that snow isn't really needed and maybe just water on concrete would suffice?

Yeah man! Check out this picture I found;



Back then skateboarding was "sidewalk surfing".....they hadn't stepped out of the shadow of surfing and become their own deal yet. When urban is possible outside of Scandinavia, Denver & Salt Lake it's gonna be something more than just "sidewalk skiing".
Jan 24 2017 2:59AM
4 1
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The.Fish
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 4,997
Well the line afterbang was sort of marketed towards urban before the bad reviews came in. I mean they built it like a skate board to make it more durable for slamming it. They would do slam tests when prototyping to see if if would snap. Obviously those tests were done before water got into the ski. That seems like an urban style design imo.
Jan 24 2017 7:11AM
3 1
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elcornholio
Posts: 797 - Karma: 1,556
Another option would to make skis extremely cheap that perform fairly well, so when you inevitably destroy them, they could be replaced at a low cost. For example, if a company were to make plastic skis (think penny board) that still had steal edges, but instead of having cores and fiberglass to increase rigidity, the edges would have supports connecting each other letting them control the flex. A plastic inject molded ski could also be recyclable.
Jan 24 2017 8:51AM
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skiznuts
Posts: 462 - Karma: 784
sup_premevishnu dude


I was about to say this lol. Their team is pretty much all dudes who's specialty is urban. And from what I've heard the wet is a pretty baller ski for urban.
Jan 24 2017 9:06AM
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SammyDubz
Posts: 2168 - Karma: 7,222
skiznutsI was about to say this lol. Their team is pretty much all dudes who's specialty is urban. And from what I've heard the wet is a pretty baller ski for urban.


It's literally no different than a bunch of skis out there how would it be any different for urban than others...
Jan 24 2017 9:33AM
3 1
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plorr
Posts: 3131 - Karma: 528
It's been tried before.

Atomic used to have a ski called the Triplet that was sold in threes (for when you inevitably broke one) and had a "third edge" underfoot that supposedly helped with sliding rails:



Also I think there were also a couple years when T Halls pro model had no edges underfoot, to increase durability for rails and urban.

I think what ski companies and urban riders have figured out is that it doesn't make sense to buy brand new skis specifically for urban. Everyone either just uses their old beater park skis or just buys someone elses old beater park skis for like $75 on NS.
Jan 24 2017 10:34AM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9446 - Karma: 62,557
plorrI think what ski companies and urban riders have figured out is that it doesn't make sense to buy brand new skis specifically for urban. Everyone either just uses their old beater park skis or just buys someone elses old beater park skis for like $75 on NS.


exactly. it makes no sense to spend money or R&D on this when it works much better to just use beat up regular skis for urban

also i never figured out what the third edge was...can anyone explain that to me? that whole thing was....ambitious haha. "three skis in case one breaks" has gotta be one of the weirdest sales pitches ive heard
Jan 24 2017 10:46AM
1 0
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,054
working on it right now, should be ready by SIA of next year. Stay tuned.
Jan 24 2017 10:55AM
12 0
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Aparker
Posts: 729 - Karma: 1,678
ever heard of icelantics
Jan 24 2017 2:09PM
1 1
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lgski
Posts: 1832 - Karma: 2,291
plorrI think what ski companies and urban riders have figured out is that it doesn't make sense to buy brand new skis specifically for urban. Everyone either just uses their old beater park skis or just buys someone elses old beater park skis for like $75 on NS.


SofaKingSickexactly. it makes no sense to spend money or R&D on this when it works much better to just use beat up regular skis for urban


Very true, it would have to be a new company, just like how J Lev and Line along with others like the armada guys started their brands as a way to make exactly what they wanted without having to deal with older established companies not wanting to expand into this new realm of the sport & spend the money in R&D. Couple of brave people fronting their own money to make a massive change in the industry.

It is an extremely whacky idea, i have no problem admitting it, but i think think that urban itself could become a separate sport from freestyle skiing how we know it. Kind of like skating and surfing discussed above.

With the insane prices of lift tickets today (which are only rising), it makes sense to seek out cheaper alternatives to still enjoy the sport and get the same thrill. Also, with the warmer winters we are experiencing in recent years, it may give skiers a new opportunity to ski as much as they used to be able to.

loganimlachworking on it right now, should be ready by SIA of next year. Stay tuned.


Hell yea man, cant wait to see what you're thinking. all of your creations so far have looked great.
Jan 24 2017 11:32PM
1 0
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Obie.
Posts: 1741 - Karma: 3,646
plorrI think what ski companies and urban riders have figured out is that it doesn't make sense to buy brand new skis specifically for urban. Everyone either just uses their old beater park skis or just buys someone elses old beater park skis for like $75 on NS.



This. In the long run it hasn't seemed to pay off for a company to invest in this idea. Too little of the industry is looking for urban specific skis or snowboards, as Stepchild put out a couple runs of a urban specific deck called the "Street Recession" that didn't have metal edges.

That being said, I'm stoked on Logan's post. Looking forward to what Armada will developing in the future.
Jan 25 2017 12:02AM
2 0
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Cadenmccullough
Posts: 628 - Karma: 2,648
loganimlachworking on it right now, should be ready by SIA of next year. Stay tuned.


Hype! I honestly think a ski with no edges underfoot would be kinda cool. No matter what ski I have the edges underfoot get totally destroyed within a season and yes I have had on3p's...
Jan 25 2017 12:10AM
1 0
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weedoo
Posts: 650 - Karma: 1,848
Yeah Imma agree with a lot of people on the thread. Blanks are probably the closest to what you're trying to get at but props to try and be inventive
Jan 25 2017 1:07AM
2 0
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128368798788
Posts: 0 - Karma: 1,167
Definitely Vishnu bruh
Jan 25 2017 1:09AM
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yungcurv
Posts: 146 - Karma: 492
http://www.vishnufreeski.com/product/wet-183cm/
Read the product description. Altough they are sold out wait until they restock and I promise it'll be worth it.
Jan 25 2017 11:49AM
2 1
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Big_Mtn
Posts: 551 - Karma: 1,647
loganimlachworking on it right now, should be ready by SIA of next year. Stay tuned.


New B-Dog?
Jan 25 2017 7:22PM
1 0
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Skiing_guy345
Posts: 53 - Karma: 99
yes very nice
Jan 25 2017 10:04PM
2 0
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,054
Big_MtnNew B-Dog?


yup.
Jan 25 2017 10:07PM
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Emma_Watson
Posts: 4491 - Karma: 6,799


ski

boards

?
Jan 25 2017 10:41PM
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Greeney
Posts: 168 - Karma: 148
suupvishnu dude

Yup
Dec 31 2017 12:52PM
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doitbig
Posts: 4818 - Karma: 315
Hard to beat used beater skis for less than 100$ on BST. I don’t understand the Vishnu references, other than their team rides mostly urban. Fairly certain they are just a soft, traditional construction ski that would preform nearly indentical to any other soft flexing ski...anyone care to enlighten me on why they are urban specific?

**This post was edited on Jan 1st 2018 at 12:25:43pm
Jan 1 2018 12:25PM
6 0
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shredasaurus
Posts: 357 - Karma: 888
hg
Jan 1 2018 2:22PM
6 0
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Greeney
Posts: 168 - Karma: 148
shredasaurushg


^very good skis they have a warranty that actually fucking covers impact damage and a bunch of other things
Jan 1 2018 3:38PM
8 0
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VISHNU
Posts: 605 - Karma: 22,421
hello
Jan 1 2018 7:14PM
21 0
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MLB
Posts: 4462 - Karma: 298
It's been done before. Atomic Triplettes, Armada T-Halls, and 9thward as well. Forum also had a snowboard with no edges just for urban, and Rome's Artifact came with copper edges for a while so you wouldn't catch/bust an edge on rails.

I think it kind of goes against the whole point of urban skiing. Urban skiing is about doing a sport in a place that wasn't made for it at all in the most creative fashion possible (in my mind anyways). Skis were never made for an urban environment, and I think that's what makes jibbing so cool.
Jan 1 2018 9:21PM
1 0
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Turd.Ferguson
Posts: 1437 - Karma: 2,713
ninthward back in the day yo, basically vishnu now. say hey to Alpine Pat for me
Jan 1 2018 9:38PM
1 1
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Big_Mtn
Posts: 551 - Karma: 1,647
loganimlachyup.


Double thickness edges underfoot? But not one single super thick edge but two separate adjacent ones on each side. Calling it now, let’s see if I’m right...
Jan 1 2018 10:05PM
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fries
Posts: 2978 - Karma: 7,521
This is what line was trying to accomplish with the afterbangs with the 'skateboard construction'.
https://www.newschoolers.com/videos/watch/887740/LINE-Skis-Afterbang-2011-Ski
Jan 2 2018 1:18PM
3 0
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montanan
Posts: 1787 - Karma: 1,346
The very very first to do it was rossignal, their first production twin tip was called the pow air , and it had a brother called the pow air grind , and this was like in early early 2000s . It had a grind plate built in underfoot . Was in production for 2 years . Don’t have time to find a pic of it currently
Jan 2 2018 1:51PM
5 0
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BenWhit
Posts: 4654 - Karma: 3,257
lgskiThat is the downfall of this idea for sure, with cost of making skis already being so high. As to your point about the market being so niche, I think that any time someone innovates they have to take the risk that it might not catch on and hope for the best.

TLDR: take risk in niche market, hope it blows up just like how twin tips caught on in the first place.


I realize you are making a more generalized argument and not necessarily an argument for the business case of the product, but the issue is that there are so many barriers to entry for the consumer to be involved in urban skiing. the consumer needed to overcome very little to transition from a traditional alpine skier to a free-skier. they ski on the same mountains, in the same conditions, at the same time for the same price, just on different trails. a certain set of conditions need to exist for a rational consumer that would make investing into a product specific to urban skiing would be a rational economic decision.
Jan 2 2018 2:17PM
1 0
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Z.J.H.
Posts: 842 - Karma: 1,541
hg skis. thicker bases thicker edges bigger sidewalls best team out and you are supporting good dudes who make the best videos. straight up.
Jan 2 2018 2:26PM
2 0
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jensen
Posts: 2576 - Karma: 1,267
Rossignol Pow Air Grind



https://www.skimag.com/gear/best-new-gear-rossignol-pow-air-178-grind

They actually put a grind plate underfoot with no edges. Left is the normal Pow Air and right is the Pow Air Grind.
Jan 3 2018 1:56AM
4 0
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9446 - Karma: 62,557
jensenRossignol Pow Air Grind



https://www.skimag.com/gear/best-new-gear-rossignol-pow-air-178-grind

They actually put a grind plate underfoot with no edges. Left is the normal Pow Air and right is the Pow Air Grind.


i vaguely remember them being heavy and not very good. did you ever shred them?
Jan 3 2018 9:21AM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5158 - Karma: 52,811
SammyDubzIt's literally no different than a bunch of skis out there how would it be any different for urban than others...


this is not true, vishnus are super different from any other ski I've been on
Jan 3 2018 3:42PM
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SammyDubz
Posts: 2168 - Karma: 7,222
BASEDJAHthis is not true, vishnus are super different from any other ski I've been on


Lol you’re missing the point. No difference in price/construction than other skis that would make it any more viable as an urban ski.
Jan 3 2018 7:49PM
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hi_vis360
Posts: 5158 - Karma: 52,811
SammyDubzLol you’re missing the point. No difference in price/construction than other skis that would make it any more viable as an urban ski.


I agree with the durability/price/construction aspect but that's not the only thing that makes a ski a good ski for urban. You're gonna have a lot more fun in the streets on a rockered, flexy, super nimble ski than on a full camber pipe ski.
Jan 3 2018 11:02PM
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JoeC92
Posts: 516 - Karma: 1,299
Yeah they’re called vishnus dude
Jan 4 2018 12:44AM
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VISHNU
Posts: 605 - Karma: 22,421
SammyDubzLol you’re missing the point. No difference in price/construction than other skis that would make it any more viable as an urban ski.


Every single aspect of the Wet is designed to be the ideal street skiing tool.

- Aggressive rocker on a symmetrical ski for ease in catching tranny (original goal was to build a ski with which you could go straight up a jersey barrier) but with enough beef in the slightly cambered body of the ski underfoot/to the contact points to be able to jump off a building and still feel comfortable landing switch or forward, provided you land properly on your feet.

- Poplar/bamboo combination for light swing weight (fun and nimble) but with a construction technique created by our factory (cant disclose) that took our team riders from using 6 pairs of skis a season with competitors brands to just one, sometimes two pairs of V's a year.
We don't even really offer too much of a warranty program simply because we don't need it. The one or two people per season who's skis are defective just DM us on instagram and we send them new skis if need be. To my knowledge, no one has EVER snapped a pair of vishnus.

-All of that at a price point $200 below competitors in a lot of cases. Because why charge $750 for a ski you're gonna use on concrete? I could continue but I think you get the idea.

Point is, we designed these skis from the ground up to hit street whether you are redirecting into a 25 ft brick wall or hitting a park bench down the street from your house. They are VERY different from a standard park ski. Guess you'll have to try them to believe me.

**This post was edited on Jan 4th 2018 at 4:11:52am
Jan 4 2018 4:09AM
8 1
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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22714 - Karma: 76,725
VISHNUEvery single aspect of the Wet is designed to be the ideal street skiing tool.

- Aggressive rocker on a symmetrical ski for ease in catching tranny (original goal was to build a ski with which you could go straight up a jersey barrier) but with enough beef in the slightly cambered body of the ski underfoot/to the contact points to be able to jump off a building and still feel comfortable landing switch or forward, provided you land properly on your feet.

- Poplar/bamboo combination for light swing weight (fun and nimble) but with a construction technique created by our factory (cant disclose) that took our team riders from using 6 pairs of skis a season with competitors brands to just one, sometimes two pairs of V's a year.
We don't even really offer too much of a warranty program simply because we don't need it. The one or two people per season who's skis are defective just DM us on instagram and we send them new skis if need be. To my knowledge, no one has EVER snapped a pair of vishnus.

-All of that at a price point $200 below competitors in a lot of cases. Because why charge $750 for a ski you're gonna use on concrete? I could continue but I think you get the idea.

Point is, we designed these skis from the ground up to hit street whether you are redirecting into a 25 ft brick wall or hitting a park bench down the street from your house. They are VERY different from a standard park ski. Guess you'll have to try them to believe me.

**This post was edited on Jan 4th 2018 at 4:11:52am


I gotta try one of your sets of sticks at some point. They sound awesome.
Jan 4 2018 6:10PM
3 0
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Crust_Station
Posts: 522 - Karma: 1,852
VISHNUEvery single aspect of the Wet is designed to be the ideal street skiing tool.

- Aggressive rocker on a symmetrical ski for ease in catching tranny (original goal was to build a ski with which you could go straight up a jersey barrier) but with enough beef in the slightly cambered body of the ski underfoot/to the contact points to be able to jump off a building and still feel comfortable landing switch or forward, provided you land properly on your feet.

- Poplar/bamboo combination for light swing weight (fun and nimble) but with a construction technique created by our factory (cant disclose) that took our team riders from using 6 pairs of skis a season with competitors brands to just one, sometimes two pairs of V's a year.
We don't even really offer too much of a warranty program simply because we don't need it. The one or two people per season who's skis are defective just DM us on instagram and we send them new skis if need be. To my knowledge, no one has EVER snapped a pair of vishnus.

-All of that at a price point $200 below competitors in a lot of cases. Because why charge $750 for a ski you're gonna use on concrete? I could continue but I think you get the idea.

Point is, we designed these skis from the ground up to hit street whether you are redirecting into a 25 ft brick wall or hitting a park bench down the street from your house. They are VERY different from a standard park ski. Guess you'll have to try them to believe me.

**This post was edited on Jan 4th 2018 at 4:11:52am


Really wanted to give wets a try but ran out of money as they were selling out, we gonna see a restock next season or is there hope for us ex broke boys?
Jan 4 2018 9:21PM
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