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Ski instructor pay?

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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
Sup ns, looking for some advice/opinions, so this year I became a ski instructor, I basically figured it would be cool to ski for free and get payed, I love the job,(get to meet a lot of cool people improve my skiing etc) however they pay is crap, we are required to be there 15hrs a week however we don't get payed unless we are teaching so out of the whole week I might get 2-3 lessons(maybe more but depends) and at 8.50 an hour I'm not even making back the money it costs for me to drive there, also I'm "not allowed" to just show up and ski? Last weekend for example I showed up (not on the schedule) with a few friends and I was then told that because I was there skiing on their pass I had to attend every line up, and show up in full uniform to every line up, (which are 9am,11am ,1,3,6:30) which I think is crazy, any input anyone? Do other mountains not pay instructors like at all? Imo even like 2 dollars an hour would be good, atleast give me some gas money for the hours I'm required to be there (also for reference I've worked a total of ~ 20 days and have only worked 17 hours out of those days all added up at 8.50 is not even 150$ and the 10$ I spend in gas each trip means I'm in the hole instead of making money )
Jan 12 2017 8:21PM
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JannyDenson
Posts: 113 - Karma: 157
Where are you working? Because if everyone isn't getting lessons that means you are probably overstaffed and you're work should probably call off some people. I would go work at a different hill if you really like instructing.
Jan 12 2017 8:26PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51595 - Karma: 161,755
It seems to vary from shit, to kinda shit, to not too bad.
Jan 12 2017 8:29PM
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270on420out
Posts: 7507 - Karma: 51,054
Ski instructor here. No offense, but your job sounds like shit.
Jan 12 2017 8:37PM
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doublecup
Posts: 946 - Karma: -662
THEDIRTYBUBBLESki instructor here. No offense, but your job sounds like shit.


Sounds shittyer than anal sex
Jan 12 2017 8:48PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13975 - Karma: 49,261
Honestly a lot of hills are like that. Not to the extent of your situation though.
Jan 12 2017 9:02PM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
JannyDensonWhere are you working? Because if everyone isn't getting lessons that means you are probably overstaffed and you're work should probably call off some people. I would go work at a different hill if you really like instructing.

The hill is called tussey mountain it's a really small hill in central pa, we have almost 100 instructors, (no way we need that many) and the only day that the majority of the people that work get to actually work (to get payed) is sat cause they have a kids program but that is 2 hours then the rest of the day goes back to the same old shit, and working st another hill isn't an option , I already drive 30min each way and I think the next closest resort to me is like 1.5 hours haha
Jan 12 2017 9:46PM
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JannyDenson
Posts: 113 - Karma: 157
Shoey-SkiThe hill is called tussey mountain it's a really small hill in central pa, we have almost 100 instructors, (no way we need that many) and the only day that the majority of the people that work get to actually work (to get payed) is sat cause they have a kids program but that is 2 hours then the rest of the day goes back to the same old shit, and working st another hill isn't an option , I already drive 30min each way and I think the next closest resort to me is like 1.5 hours haha


I would say if you really need the pay switch to a different job if you like working at the hill. Do you get a free pass at least?
Jan 12 2017 9:49PM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
JannyDensonI would say if you really need the pay switch to a different job if you like working at the hill. Do you get a free pass at least?


Yeah except when I go to ski with my friends I have to work too even when I'm not on the schedule there Moto is if I'm at the mountain since I'm using their pass I need to be ready to work ( which is crazy because it's not only having to show up to different line ups throughout the day I have to go in and change before all of them, unless I wear my instructor coat which if I do that then I'm sapposed to help everyone I see fall out if they need it)
Jan 12 2017 9:59PM
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JannyDenson
Posts: 113 - Karma: 157
Not gonna lie that sounds kind of lame. I normally see my bosses in the park my job sounds way more laid back. What would happen if you just didn't go in and help normally they wont fire you for a first offense and if its your first year just say you didn't know the rules.
Jan 12 2017 10:07PM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
JannyDensonNot gonna lie that sounds kind of lame. I normally see my bosses in the park my job sounds way more laid back. What would happen if you just didn't go in and help normally they wont fire you for a first offense and if its your first year just say you didn't know the rules.


Yeah I mean the last time I went I just didn't show up to a few of them because honestly I didn't care, I thought to myself : what are they gonna do fire me for not working when I'm not even supposed to be to begin with ? Haha
Jan 12 2017 10:16PM
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Casey
Posts: 7844 - Karma: 24,254
Shoey-SkiYeah except when I go to ski with my friends I have to work too even when I'm not on the schedule there Moto is if I'm at the mountain since I'm using their pass I need to be ready to work ( which is crazy because it's not only having to show up to different line ups throughout the day I have to go in and change before all of them, unless I wear my instructor coat which if I do that then I'm sapposed to help everyone I see fall out if they need it)


That's a horrible policy. How do they know you are at the mountain in the first place do the ticket checkers tell your boss or something? I would just tell them to fuck off until they either cave or fire you.
Jan 12 2017 10:26PM
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profa_212
Posts: 8881 - Karma: 35,692
Shoey-SkiYeah except when I go to ski with my friends I have to work too even when I'm not on the schedule there Moto is if I'm at the mountain since I'm using their pass I need to be ready to work ( which is crazy because it's not only having to show up to different line ups throughout the day I have to go in and change before all of them, unless I wear my instructor coat which if I do that then I'm sapposed to help everyone I see fall out if they need it)

This is in no way normal and you should look into your contract to see if it is stated there. Because that is fucked up

Also where are you instructing and do you have psia certification? Because that pay is bullshit too....I'd quit lol you are in the hole and it seems to be in no way worth it
Jan 12 2017 11:41PM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
That's lame, I have ski instructed all over the world and that is probably the roughest deal I have heard of! I think Las Lenas has a similar hourly check in policy and shitty pay, but at least there you are skiing Las Lenas.
Jan 13 2017 12:31AM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
Profahoben_212This is in no way normal and you should look into your contract to see if it is stated there. Because that is fucked up

Also where are you instructing and do you have psia certification? Because that pay is bullshit too....I'd quit lol you are in the hole and it seems to be in no way worth it

I'm instructing at my home hill Tussey Mountain , and I don't have Pisa cert yet (cause this is my first year, however I have had to attend over 15 hours of unpaid trainings
Jan 13 2017 6:24AM
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PoLaRpEaK
Posts: 439 - Karma: 555
Your employer is breaking a ridiculous amount of labor laws by requiring this of you. If they expect you to perform duties when you are at the hill, they HAVE to pay you for that time. Even showing up to the lineup or whatever you call it.

Anyways you are getting dicked around. Go find a new job. You could work one day a week anywhere else and make more money.
Jan 13 2017 4:41PM
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Casey
Posts: 7844 - Karma: 24,254
Shoey-SkiI'm instructing at my home hill Tussey Mountain , and I don't have Pisa cert yet (cause this is my first year, however I have had to attend over 15 hours of unpaid trainings


That is actually illegal in most cases training is not a valid form of compensation. File an L&I claim and get your money.
Jan 13 2017 5:35PM
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PoLaRpEaK
Posts: 439 - Karma: 555
In most places, any training should legally be paid training.
Jan 13 2017 6:36PM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
PoLaRpEaKYour employer is breaking a ridiculous amount of labor laws by requiring this of you. If they expect you to perform duties when you are at the hill, they HAVE to pay you for that time. Even showing up to the lineup or whatever you call it.

Anyways you are getting dicked around. Go find a new job. You could work one day a week anywhere else and make more money.


CaseyThat is actually illegal in most cases training is not a valid form of compensation. File an L&I claim and get your money.


PoLaRpEaKIn most places, any training should legally be paid training.

Damn this is eye opening but yeah a "line up" is where all the instructors there have to go stand at the top of the hill and see if we get a lesson, this happen 6 times a day maybe more maybe less depends on the day, and there have been tons of days I go there don't get a lesson all day and walk away with nothing
Jan 13 2017 7:38PM
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Brule.
Posts: 3919 - Karma: 6,206
THEDIRTYBUBBLESki instructor here. No offense, but your job sounds like shit.


Another ski instructor commenting in this thread, and your job definitely sounds like shit. They're definitely asking too much from you when they get jack shit for lessons.

Also, OP, that's pretty fucking retarded that when you show up to the mountain you can't freeski on a day off. At the hill I work at, if you show up on any day during a holiday period or any Saturday when you're not scheduled to work you have to show up to line-up. In order to solve your freeskiing troubles at your mountain, just show up in different gear and they won't know it's you.
Jan 13 2017 9:38PM
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crotchvent
Posts: 1527 - Karma: 2,184
That is pretty much the exact same way the hill i work at does it. We start at 8 and after like 15 lessons go up a dollar and for every level of psia cert you go up a dollar.
Jan 13 2017 10:46PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51595 - Karma: 161,755
A lot of hills fuck people over because they can find more people and they're young and they feel they're easy to fuck with.

But you should be able to ski when you aren't working as long as you're showing up as scheduled and in good favor with your manager. Some places don't give a season pass, but saying you can't ski is bullshit. I'd tell them to get fucked.
Jan 14 2017 12:41AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51595 - Karma: 161,755
I think the 3 and 1/50th years I taught my first year was the best I ever did.

$5 per head group, $15 for private, and $10 per head semi private.

The mountain still took most of it, but you were actually making some money. I had some 10+ person lessons. Considering minimum was $5.20 ish that was pretty rad.

Idk how many times I didn't have one but for first year being 14 it seemed decent.

Now I hear people talk about it and it seems a lot of places nobody makes anything except for the big weeks. By nobody I mean a lot of people don't.

Bummer though. Obviously the ski industry is low paying, but sometimes I feel people kind of take advantage of people entering the work force in instructing
Jan 14 2017 1:05AM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
theabortionatorI think the 3 and 1/50th years I taught my first year was the best I ever did.

$5 per head group, $15 for private, and $10 per head semi private.

The mountain still took most of it, but you were actually making some money. I had some 10+ person lessons. Considering minimum was $5.20 ish that was pretty rad.

Idk how many times I didn't have one but for first year being 14 it seemed decent.

Now I hear people talk about it and it seems a lot of places nobody makes anything except for the big weeks. By nobody I mean a lot of people don't.

Bummer though. Obviously the ski industry is low paying, but sometimes I feel people kind of take advantage of people entering the work force in instructing


Pretty sure Aspen pays the best in the US, friends are on 50 bucks an hour before tips.

Worldwide, France is good as you can work independently so keep everything you charge. Japan can be similar too.
Jan 15 2017 9:26PM
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Jesse.White
Posts: 450 - Karma: 754
That sounds pretty miserable. I am a current ski instructor returning on my 5th winter. I get paid from the time I clock in until I leave. Tips also help on top of my hourly rate. OP wherever you work sounds pretty shitty, you should try to explain to your boss that the way they pay you is like a firefighter only getting paid when they get called out to a fire.
Jan 16 2017 4:14PM
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KingTaco
Posts: 2510 - Karma: 2,829
Yo Killington was the absolute butthole of the ski instructing world too. Let's not mention all the hardos heading that place that get off to their carving ability and not putting a god damn ounce of respect on my technical skiing ability.

But anyway yeah not quite as bad as what youre describing but any day you marked availability you were expected to show up for lineup at 9, and then 11. In most cases knowing damn fucking well you werent gonna work either and so did the mountain. Im talking 3 people showing up for group lessons and 12 instructors lined up.
Heres the kicker: you got .25 hours pay for a lineup at like $9.60 an hour. Cool I'll just go fuck myself with these $2. And then in most cases you'd be expected to help take down fences and shit for almost an hour.
Kids full day lessons was the same pile of shit. I could swear you were working a solid 7+ hours and I think the net pay was 6 hours for that type of lesson.

Bottom line is the job pays less than minimum wage when you account for wear and tear on equipment.


That said, keep looking and you can find a better gig. I ended up moving to a smaller mountain and the pay straight up quadrupled. I had a weekend freestyle group I would get paid $150 daily to teach! On top of that I could also squeeze in two 1 hour private beginner lessons where I got like $26 each for. No bullshit. That job was incredible. Unfortunately had to hang it up because I'm a weekend warrior this year and could not give up every single free ski day for the entire season. Id lose my mind.

Good luck
Jan 16 2017 9:32PM
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FerrisBueller
Posts: 8280 - Karma: 5,173
I make 10.50 and hour and its about to go up to 12.00 an hour, and whenever I get privates if you include the tip, I'm making around $30 and hour.
Jan 16 2017 9:39PM
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JannyDenson
Posts: 113 - Karma: 157
I wouldn't really count on tips though. I have never been tipped so don't count on it.
Jan 17 2017 9:27AM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
So would it be bad for me to ask to get payed atleast to go to lineups ?(line ups at my mountain last about 15min and happen at 11,1,3,6:30 depending on the day, and we are required to show up in full uniform which means changing before each of those unless I stay in the uniform all day, )
Jan 17 2017 12:00PM
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KingTaco
Posts: 2510 - Karma: 2,829
Shoey-SkiSo would it be bad for me to ask to get payed atleast to go to lineups ?(line ups at my mountain last about 15min and happen at 11,1,3,6:30 depending on the day, and we are required to show up in full uniform which means changing before each of those unless I stay in the uniform all day, )



It's definitely horseshit, and probably against the law for you to not get paid for lineups. The resort has a choice. They either swallow the administrative expense of paying someone to properly schedule instructors based on demand for lessons, and place phone calls or communicate some other way to call you off work. Or they can take the take the hit and pay you for the time you reported to work, but you weren't needed.
Jan 17 2017 12:23PM
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iced
Posts: 3070 - Karma: 17,965
Quit ur job.
I get 11.50 an hour with half price food and free pass to partnered resorts
Jan 17 2017 6:25PM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
So I was talking about this with a few other employees and one of the supervisors said that they "get around it" because we are outdoor and seasonal employees, however I've looked up the labor laws for pa and they say "Pennsylvania minimum wage laws require employers to compensate employees for all hours worked. It defines hours worked as time employers require employees to be on its premises, to be on duty, or to be at a prescribed work place. It also includes time employees are employed or permitted to work. PA Admin. Code 231.1(b)" since I am required to be there 15 hours a week shouldn't we be required to get payed for atleast that many hours? And if not shouldn't I atleast get payed for the time I'm at line ups everyday? (I'm just trying to gather as much info before I present it to my boss)
Jan 17 2017 9:58PM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4798 - Karma: -676
Indentured servitude.

You should sue IMO. They don't fuck the south american help this bad only the middle class white kids tehy know will get help from their parents. If the lessons were free I'd say suck it up and deal with it. But someone pays good money to have a professional teach their kids.


Of course working for a ski hill will never be lucrative so expectations can never be that high.
Jan 18 2017 10:29PM
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GolfingElephant
Posts: 659 - Karma: 473
At my mountain the instructors are expected to sign in whenever they are on snow. You indicate whether you're on schedule when you sign in. When you're not on schedule you don't HAVE to come to grouping (or lineups as you called them) but they may call you to teach if they get overrun. We also have to be in "uniform" whenever we're on snow since the uniform serves as our lift ticket. However the uniform is just a fleece vest with the company logo on it. Not bad at all. For pay they start you at 11.50 per lesson and up it by a dollar for every 50 lessons you teach. Usually they treat us pretty well but they expect a lot of us. The head of the company is a fucking legend in the instruction industry. He's literally written notable books on it. Like famous to the point where when my family and I were in Steamboat, Billy Kidd (who leads random clinics up there on occasion and we happened to luck out) asked my dad if he knew my boss once once he found out where we were from. if you don't know who Billy Kidd is then google him.
Jan 19 2017 9:17AM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,354
^This dude above me has the nail on the head.

I had a similar situation in NY around 2007-2010 and shit really hit the fan for the mountain. Finally, all the instructors got pissed off, people did research and threats were made. It fixed our situation which just mean't more skiing without being bothered.

I think it's honestly a tough situation. Resorts around us are small, shitty and don't make much money. I do feel for them, it's seasonal. At the same time many places bring on way more instructors than they need and many of them are bottom feeders. You're always going to see a small amount "professionals" (You'll get what I mean) which are like PSIA Lvl 2-3, and the boss always wants to send them out and ALWAYS pay them (otherwise they would fuckin leave. Then there are the old people who have been doing it forever (and some of them are fucking dicks) but they take priority too in the eyes of the coordinator. THEN there are the young guns who sometimes turn out to be the best teachers, work the gnarliest hours, get fucked over and take the lessons no one wants... and the management could give a fuck about them because they know you're only there for the free pass anyway.

Get under the PSIA certified people's wing (unless they're total cock smokes), learn how to teach REALLY well, and get them pissed about the situations. These people can get the boot just like anyone else but they usually have the experience and shit talking powers to fix situations... they could slip to other resorts and run their mouth. It's all ugly, but do that.
Jan 21 2017 3:55AM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
I've been talking to some more people at my hill, and they said we don't get payed because we are teachers, and also that we are in the seasonal and outdoor line of work, which doesn't seem to match up with anything I can find, honestly I don't care if we get payed every hour we are there but at least during line ups, that way I could atleast get some gas money, because so far I've spent more on gas getting their then I have made
Jan 21 2017 7:21PM
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arnie_grape
Posts: 3451 - Karma: 11,678
ski instructors are dispensable so they pay whatever they want.

resorts don't give a fuck about instructors anymore. if you quit they can replace you in 5 minutes with a new highschool kid or some gap year aussie that learned to ski 2 weeks ago.

quality lessons
Jan 21 2017 9:52PM
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Twinjibber77
Posts: 6239 - Karma: 2,354
GORILLAWALLACEif you quit they can replace you in 5 minutes with a new highschool kid or some gap year aussie that learned to ski 2 weeks ago.


Sad but hilariously true.
Jan 29 2017 6:00AM
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MaimHelp
Posts: 1719 - Karma: 13,568
Hey man I've seen you at tussey multiple times this year. Did this issue ever get solved?
Apr 28 2018 9:30PM
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RousedWits
Posts: 387 - Karma: 894
I've been an Instructor before. I've noticed many of the fulltime ski instructors that made a decent amount of money were good at networking and building a good reputation.

If a lesson went well, they would give the students their buisness card. At the hill I worked at, people could request certain instructors for a private lesson and the instructor would get more money. So returning students would request to continue learning from the instructor..

Word travels around they get the reputation as the "go-to" instructor... you can make a decent living, (and you get less daycare lessons) otherwise the pay is definitley not that great... But if there is a will there is a way!

Good luck!
Apr 29 2018 1:22AM
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pow_pow~
Posts: 1429 - Karma: 1,804
haha every other mountain in the world when you get a free pass with work it means you can ski whenever you like when not rostered on. youre getting fucked
Apr 29 2018 5:45AM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7815 - Karma: 21,824
Where do you live that min. wage is 8.50/hour or less?? Also, if you are scheduled to work, at least in Canada it is required in most cases that you are paid for a minimum three hours. Usually if I had one lesson or no lessons my boss would just have me shape park features, cover people's breaks on lift or rental shop or something like that. Instructing in Canada, you have to be a CSIA instructor to teach skiing. Each time you go up a level in the CSIA certification, you usually get a $1 raise. Often if you are available full time you get an extra $1/hr too. At the hills I've worked at between 2008-present the base rate for instructors has been anywhere from $11.50/hr to $16.75/hr
Apr 29 2018 3:17PM
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losh
Posts: 1126 - Karma: 4,695
I feel like a seasons to tussey couldn't cost more than like $200-300 anyways. Is the free skiing even that much of a perk?
Apr 29 2018 3:40PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Hot take: ski school is the worst department to work for. Maybe if you were like a career instructor with crazy certs, a decade plus experience, and you’re really attractive and charismatic and work at a vail resort, aspen, whistler, Alta or some shit and you get repeat customer private lessons and get fat tips it’s cool, but 90% of instructors get shit on. No guaranteed hours, no consistent check, it’s thankless, really hard, and you spend a lot of time with kids on bunny slopes backwards snow plowing. And the pay is dog shit.

You’d be better off as a lifty, rental or repair shop, patrol, etc.

Dude....go bartend or serve at a restaurant at night and make decent money, buy a pass, and shred...like what the fuck are you thinking? That’s a terrible arrangement.
Apr 29 2018 4:03PM
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.FRY.
Posts: 5620 - Karma: 22,861
I know this thread is old af but just reading some of the rules you guys have to follow makes me feel really lucky about my ski instructing gig. I teach a group of the same kids every weekend from 9:30-12:30. I'm supposed to go to line up at 1 but I never do. So for the past couple seasons I've been working the mornings and then skiing with my friends in the afternoons. I'm also supposed to sign into the computer everyday even if I'm not scheduled, but I don't do that either. I'm also like one of the only teenagers who works there, everyone else is like 50, so that may be part of it.
Apr 29 2018 4:23PM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
MaimHelpHey man I've seen you at tussey multiple times this year. Did this issue ever get solved?

nah they fucked me over again, i was told that things would be different this year and we would get payed like we should, so i came back just ot get the same old bull shit
loshI feel like a seasons to tussey couldn't cost more than like $200-300 anyways. Is the free skiing even that much of a perk?

459$ for a teen. Yes 459$ to ski 5 trails with one lift
Apr 29 2018 4:26PM
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losh
Posts: 1126 - Karma: 4,695
Shoey-Skinah they fucked me over again, i was told that things would be different this year and we would get payed like we should, so i came back just ot get the same old bull shit

459$ for a teen. Yes 459$ to ski 5 trails with one lift


Pretty sure I paid less for my epic pass lol
Apr 29 2018 4:31PM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
loshPretty sure I paid less for my epic pass lol


lmao, shows the place is a joke im happy to be moving next szn
Apr 29 2018 4:34PM
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MaimHelp
Posts: 1719 - Karma: 13,568
Shoey-Skilmao, shows the place is a joke im happy to be moving next szn


Where you gonna ski next season?
Apr 29 2018 5:03PM
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Shoey-Ski
Posts: 1649 - Karma: 6,190
MaimHelpWhere you gonna ski next season?

Boulder, or bear creek
Apr 29 2018 5:09PM
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MaimHelp
Posts: 1719 - Karma: 13,568
Shoey-SkiBoulder, or bear creek


Oh that's dope. I'm pretty sure I saw you at boulder the one day. You were with a kid that my friend was friends with lmfao. I want to stop getting passes at blue knob but everything else is too far. but 300 for a pass is pretty decent.
Apr 29 2018 5:12PM
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