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What is up with crazy ever increasing lift ticket prices?

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e.littt
Posts: 414 - Karma: 2,348
Every year the costs go up, its ridiculous. Like $100+ for a day pass is the norm now, why? Where does the money go? What justifies the yearly increase for prices?
Dec 28 2016 3:16PM
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eheath
Posts: 61647 - Karma: 123,460
Park City day passes were like 90 bucks 10 years ago, its not like it just got expensive in the last 3 years, places in CO have been 90-100 for 10+ years now too.
Dec 28 2016 3:30PM
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SofaKingSick
Posts: 9327 - Karma: 61,264
i would like to see a breakdown of the whole thing by someone who actually knows the numbers. my knee jerk reaction is "those bastards!" but i dont know nearly enough about the subject to really know.. for all i know they operate on really thin margins haha
Dec 28 2016 3:41PM
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Casey
Posts: 7875 - Karma: 24,672
Because everyone is rich now and doesn't give a shit what things cost.
Dec 28 2016 3:49PM
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Mingg
Posts: 13992 - Karma: 49,651
Inflation
Dec 28 2016 3:50PM
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seanahue.
Posts: 2142 - Karma: 3,375
I would imagine that the escalation of liability insurance costs has to be a primary factor. That along with rising wages contributing to higher labor costs. After you adjust for inflation, I'd be super interested to hear what other variables are at play
Dec 28 2016 4:06PM
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mulz
Posts: 155 - Karma: 223
seanahue.LIABILITY INSURANCE


No inside info but I'd be willing to bet this is the main driving factor. Look at Europe/Asia significantly lower day passes much less litigous regions than N. America.
Dec 28 2016 5:01PM
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The.Fish
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 4,992
Id say inflation for most cases. However season pass prices are ridiculously cheap so that also may be a factor.
Dec 28 2016 5:07PM
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aldicigg
Posts: 228 - Karma: 1,396
mulzNo inside info but I'd be willing to bet this is the main driving factor. Look at Europe/Asia significantly lower day passes much less litigous regions than N. America.


Exactly, here in Europe the most expensive day passes are in switzerland around 70€ but usually cost 40-60€ even in the biggest resorts. It's crazy that tickets in NA cost more than twice as much.
Dec 28 2016 5:16PM
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dan4060
Posts: 1458 - Karma: 847
In addition to the other factors mentioned there is something else: Ski areas are businesses and they are going to look for a price point which maximizes their profitability. If Vail thinks they can make their highest level of profit margin by charging 175 a day they will. Let's say they think charging 200 a day will lead to 1,000 tickets sold. That is 200k in revenue. If they think they can sell 1,100 tickets at 175 that would be 192,500 in revenue, which is less than 200,000. In the above scenario they would charge 200 because the extra charge per ticket offsets selling 100 fewer tickets, making it worth it to charge more. The only reason they would not charge 200 instead of 175 is if they determined that the reduced number of tickets sold would take them below the revenue they would make at 175. There is other math involved but you get the idea. The big ski areas are not your friends, they are in it for the money and they only care about pricing people out of the sport if it affects their bottom line. If you expect ski areas to act in a way that is not consistent with maximizing profit you will be very disappointed. They are here to make money, providing skiing is just a by product of that. I'm not even criticizing them for being this way, just saying that everyone needs to accept that.

What is good for serious skiers is that season passes at many places are a very good deal. When I lived in Tahoe, I left in 2004, Squaw full season passes were 1200 if you bought them before July 1600 after. Midweek passes were 800. Now you can get a full Squaw pass for something like 800. My Mammoth pass is 700, which is still a great deal even though I only ski 30 days a year. I think Mammoth is 150 for a day ticket during the holidays. I would rather have cheap season passes and expensive day tickets than the other way around.
Dec 28 2016 7:33PM
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SkiingBurgular
Posts: 138 - Karma: 130
I've noticed a lot of places going from $55 to $75 it's jacked lol
Dec 28 2016 8:00PM
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LivingDaLife
Posts: 352 - Karma: 1,349
SofaKingSicki would like to see a breakdown of the whole thing by someone who actually knows the numbers. my knee jerk reaction is "those bastards!" but i dont know nearly enough about the subject to really know.. for all i know they operate on really thin margins haha


http://investors.vailresorts.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=990802

Vail Resorts is a public company so they release earnings reports and since they have the highest daily lift ticket prices, I thought this would be relevant.
Dec 28 2016 8:14PM
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_steffen_
Posts: 904 - Karma: 133
eheathPark City day passes were like 90 bucks 10 years ago, its not like it just got expensive in the last 3 years, places in CO have been 90-100 for 10+ years now too.


Yeah my 300ft hill back east has always charged almost 70$. things haven't changed that much at all.
Dec 28 2016 9:16PM
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dan4060
Posts: 1458 - Karma: 847
LivingDaLifehttp://investors.vailresorts.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=990802

Vail Resorts is a public company so they release earnings reports and since they have the highest daily lift ticket prices, I thought this would be relevant.


Thanks for posting. Because Vail is publicly traded they have investors to answer to. They can't tell those investors that they sacrificed profit in order to provide skiing for a lower cost. A private company could do that if they wanted to but when you are publicly owned your job is to maximize the stock price. Investors buy stocks they think will be valuable, not stocks for companies which are nice.
Dec 29 2016 2:27PM
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Casey
Posts: 7875 - Karma: 24,672
I have an idea about Snoqualmie Pass and Crystal Mountain price increases, there are a few things going on. Getting bought up by an MNC had the obvious effect of eliminating competition between the resorts, but also brought a lot of capital improvement money to both resorts. High speed lifts, a gondola, new lodge, etc. They have a lot of new stuff to pay for. The other factor is the huge influx of foreign wealth into the PNW and the growth and popularity of Backcountry skiing. When I started skiing the Alpental backcountry, it wouldn't be weird at all to not see another person out there all day. If you asked your average weekend skier if they ever went in the backcountry they were really reluctant because they didn't want to get lost and die. Now it's pretty normal to see 50 to 100 people stacked up on the traverse on any given weekend day.
Dec 29 2016 2:41PM
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clorox
Posts: 1728 - Karma: 4,863
I went on like a 5 or 6 day trip to Winterpark, CO and the day tickets were around 100. I ended up just getting a season pass for like $300
Dec 29 2016 5:15PM
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The.Fish
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 4,992
FKS_HEEL_PIECEI went on like a 5 or 6 day trip to Winterpark, CO and the day tickets were around 100. I ended up just getting a season pass for like $300


They had a flash sale so i got a 2 day for like $98 or something cheap.
Dec 29 2016 6:18PM
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FishChowder
Posts: 244 - Karma: 222
I got a season pass this year at my local hill for $120. It still isn't worth it.
Dec 29 2016 6:45PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51740 - Karma: 163,487
Inflation.

Nothing is really the same price as it used to be. Technology is really the only thing that stays stable or decreases with our advances.

I remember when gas was under a buck a gallon. The value of the USD goes down, the value of Lift Tickets and everything else goes up.
Dec 29 2016 6:50PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51740 - Karma: 163,487
Also regarding how some people think lift tickets are overpriced everywhere.

A lot of mountains aren't really making that much money. There is a ton of money in the equipment and fixing/replacing things. Snowmaking, insurance, employees, electricity.

And then you need to be able to make enough in the good seasons to survive seasons like last year in the north east. A lot of places are only a couple of bad seasons away from closing the doors.

The good thing with some of the bigger places are that they can do alright, and keep season pass prices almost as low as some of the tiny hills.

Idk. Compared to what people are making skiing has never really been a cheap sport. It's all about getting seasons passes, working at mountains for passes, or hitting up your friends for comp.

Most avid skiers aren't paying 100+ every time they go skiing all season.
Dec 29 2016 6:57PM
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Revelinyourstoke
Posts: 125 - Karma: 61
Have you looked at the historical prices? There is a site that lists them for most resorts. It's not like they have just jumped up in price. They have steadily increased over time with inflation.
Dec 29 2016 9:34PM
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Dddsz
Posts: 3042 - Karma: 7,326
My 500' vert hill has $80 day passes. All I pay for is the $300 season pass, so I think its pretty hilarious that all the jerries from the cities have to pay big money.
Dec 29 2016 10:31PM
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dmc12380
Posts: 3545 - Karma: 792
Vails walk up price is at $190 over the holidays, they justify it by keeping the epic pass at a reasonable price for all the mountains you have access too. And to make tourists buy season passes so they take two vacations instead of one and shop, dine, sleep at vail owned establishments, but they don't openly talk about that.
Dec 30 2016 12:33AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51740 - Karma: 163,487
dmc12380Vails walk up price is at $190 over the holidays, they justify it by keeping the epic pass at a reasonable price for all the mountains you have access too. And to make tourists buy season passes so they take two vacations instead of one and shop, dine, sleep at vail owned establishments, but they don't openly talk about that.


I mean 599 or whatever an epic pass costs is a pretty fucking epic deal though.

I think last season it was the same price as the small shitty hill I was working at for 1 mtn 1k vert.
Dec 30 2016 1:49AM
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eheath
Posts: 61647 - Karma: 123,460
theabortionatorI mean 599 or whatever an epic pass costs is a pretty fucking epic deal though.

I think last season it was the same price as the small shitty hill I was working at for 1 mtn 1k vert.


Epic pass is $850.
Dec 30 2016 2:14AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51740 - Karma: 163,487
eheathEpic pass is $850.


Hmm. I always though it was under $650 if you bought it early. Never actually bought one just have gotten it through work.

i guess I was pretty far off.
Dec 30 2016 2:20AM
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eheath
Posts: 61647 - Karma: 123,460
theabortionatorHmm. I always though it was under $650 if you bought it early. Never actually bought one just have gotten it through work.

i guess I was pretty far off.


The local pass is 650-700 whenever you buy it but with blackout dates on Christmas and limited use at some resorts it wouldn't be ideal for tourists.
Dec 30 2016 2:26AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51740 - Karma: 163,487
eheathThe local pass is 650-700 whenever you buy it but with blackout dates on Christmas and limited use at some resorts it wouldn't be ideal for tourists.


Word. Always thought it was cheaper for some reason. Must have heard local passes quoted.


Still not bad considering the day ticket rates and amount of hills you can use it at but not that cheap.

Did it go up in the last 5 years with all the recent acquisitions or was it always about that?
Dec 30 2016 2:51AM
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louie.mirags
Posts: 6015 - Karma: 5,027
Day passes are where the resorts make their money. For example, a lift ticket at Hunter Mtn is $85 but the peak pass that works at 7 mountains including Hunter was $400 for 18-29yo.
Dec 30 2016 9:09AM
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cozzey
Posts: 1353 - Karma: 1,814
The.FishThey had a flash sale so i got a 2 day for like $98 or something cheap.


I was just there yesterday and apparently 17,000 other people were there as well. Definitely not going back today
Dec 30 2016 10:36AM
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*Nickdel*
Posts: 2264 - Karma: 956
eheathThe local pass is 650-700 whenever you buy it but with blackout dates on Christmas and limited use at some resorts it wouldn't be ideal for tourists.


Local Pass was only 560 at its highest point
Dec 30 2016 10:52AM
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The.Fish
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 4,992
chiefclulI was just there yesterday and apparently 17,000 other people were there as well. Definitely not going back today


I went last week and the longest i waited was like 10 min for the panoramic because it just opened for the season. Most lines were less than 5 min.
Dec 30 2016 11:13AM
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HaydenWrong
Posts: 986 - Karma: 2,165

eheathPark City day passes were like 90 bucks 10 years ago, its not like it just got expensive in the last 3 years, places in CO have been 90-100 for 10+ years now too.[/quote]

MinggInflation


FKS_HEEL_PIECEI went on like a 5 or 6 day trip to Winterpark, CO and the day tickets were around 100. I ended up just getting a season pass for like $300
Dec 30 2016 11:32AM
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SPK_
Posts: 202 - Karma: 1,050
Damn and I thought euro resorts were already super expensive, but I actually have it good around here (although it like never snows and the parks are complete for 2 months max). My local-1-trail hill passes are either for a certain amount of hours or per ride up. Since the park is pretty flat you just end up hiking it anyway and for the 3-4 months it's open something like 50-60 rides up are enough so in the end it's around 80-90€ for the season. I guess those 100+$ passes are just to juice the jerry's coming for a few days, since season passes in the US are quite cheap where it's usually around a thousand in europe.
Dec 30 2016 8:07PM
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fries
Posts: 2978 - Karma: 7,520
Like everyone has said, season passes are usually pretty cheap.

Expensive day passes allows for cheaper season passes. Can't complain
Dec 30 2016 10:58PM
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MikeWeinerONE
Posts: 501 - Karma: 1,215
*Nickdel*Local Pass was only 560 at its highest point


Well 3 weeks ago when Vail stopped selling the passes, the local pass was 650 and the epic was 850. So no, the highest point was not 560.
Jan 1 2017 12:47AM
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PeppermillReno
Posts: 4814 - Karma: -703
eheathPark City day passes were like 90 bucks 10 years ago, its not like it just got expensive in the last 3 years, places in CO have been 90-100 for 10+ years now too.


Its never been cheap.


People act like sheep more than ever. Everyone wants to check in at Vail's back bowls or at a bigger resort near where they live not a small local hill its a status/prestige thing and if you only go a couple days a year you'll pay extra for that. Its not just families childless young adults also like to ski at the peak times when everyone else is going skiing. Noone supports the mountains in March or April when the weather is nice and its cheaper.


Im happy I took a break 12/23-1/4. The mountain belongs to the custie part timers who pay for me to have a cheap season pass. Had a work trip to Oregon and played Bandon Dunes. December is the cheapest time of the year to play it. Was worried I might not get a tee time b/c of the value being so good. When I last went it was crowded because it was still February and in March the prices go way higher. Anyways I found out that Christmas-New Years is the least busy time for them and they actually have to close a couple courses due to lack of players. Absolute opposite of skiing. And thats 4 top 100 ranked courses for great prices right there. When I did my replay I was the only person opting for a second afternoon round and had the course to myself until I caught people on the 16th hole. That is my Christmas and New Years vacation from now on playing 36 holes a day at elite courses with minimal crowds and good prices shits on skiing during the busiest week of the year.
Jan 2 2017 8:38PM
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Slush
Posts: 1916 - Karma: 12,955
My 1200' vertical foot hill thinks a 850$ season pass and 70$ day tickets are "Fair prices for the mountain"
Jan 2 2017 9:02PM
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SpoonsPlumbs
Posts: 2 - Karma: 10
If us idiots pay the over 100 bucks then the resorts are laughing all the way to the bank. Vail resorts or whatever the company is are buying up resorts and jacking up prices. The only way to put a stop to it is to get a large group and boycott them for a year. I have stopped paying it already. I have a somewhat local hill I pay for a season pass which is not expensive and I stay there. I like to race but I am not willing to pay over $70 and sometimes a lot more to another resort for an hours worth of skiing.
Jan 3 2017 3:51PM
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skiitsbetter
Posts: 133 - Karma: 309
European resorts don't have to do avalanche control or patrol off piste areas (anything off of a groomed run is pretty much considered out of bounds in Europe), so they reduce ski patrol, snow safety, and take on significantly less liability.

If you hit up one of those midweek, sleeper powder days, it seems cheap compared to cat skiing. But I'm only a weekend warrior.
Jan 3 2017 5:32PM
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stormtrooper
Posts: 1191 - Karma: 461
As someone who managed a small ski resort, season pass prices are going down and day tickets are going up because at the end of the day, The resorts make basically nothing off of you skiing there. They make money off of the food/merch/Lodging.

In example: Someone who purchases day tickets on average will ski no more than 3 days at the same resort, however, someone with a season pass will on average ski at least 9 days. That person now has a larger chance of buying food/merch/lodging from that ski resort.

So the logic, family from Texas says lets go skiing for 5 days at Vail, then Mom looks it up. She then sees the costs of day tickets, quickly realizes it would be cheaper to buy everyone season passes, Then goes a head and purchases Season passes.

The family then goes out and enjoys their trip to Vail, they have a great time, the son wants to go skiing there again, Now Mom thinks, "we could go over spring break and because we have passes it wont cost us near as much money!" Now family comes skiing again, buys food, merch. and lodging, again,

Hopefully this made some sense to you all. I tried to dumb t down to newschoolers standards.
Jan 3 2017 5:55PM
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e.littt
Posts: 414 - Karma: 2,348
stormtrooperAs someone who managed a small ski resort, season pass prices are going down and day tickets are going up because at the end of the day, The resorts make basically nothing off of you skiing there. They make money off of the food/merch/Lodging.

In example: Someone who purchases day tickets on average will ski no more than 3 days at the same resort, however, someone with a season pass will on average ski at least 9 days. That person now has a larger chance of buying food/merch/lodging from that ski resort.

So the logic, family from Texas says lets go skiing for 5 days at Vail, then Mom looks it up. She then sees the costs of day tickets, quickly realizes it would be cheaper to buy everyone season passes, Then goes a head and purchases Season passes.

The family then goes out and enjoys their trip to Vail, they have a great time, the son wants to go skiing there again, Now Mom thinks, "we could go over spring break and because we have passes it wont cost us near as much money!" Now family comes skiing again, buys food, merch. and lodging, again,

Hopefully this made some sense to you all. I tried to dumb t down to newschoolers standards.


That actually makes a ton of sense. I never really thought about the perspective of trying to make more money off of merch/food/other services instead of lift tickets.
Jan 4 2017 3:35AM
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HaydenWrong
Posts: 986 - Karma: 2,165
The referenced post has been removed.


savage haha
Jan 4 2017 8:19AM
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SpoonsPlumbs
Posts: 2 - Karma: 10
stormtrooperAs someone who managed a small ski resort, season pass prices are going down and day tickets are going up because at the end of the day, The resorts make basically nothing off of you skiing there. They make money off of the food/merch/Lodging.

In example: Someone who purchases day tickets on average will ski no more than 3 days at the same resort, however, someone with a season pass will on average ski at least 9 days. That person now has a larger chance of buying food/merch/lodging from that ski resort.

So the logic, family from Texas says lets go skiing for 5 days at Vail, then Mom looks it up. She then sees the costs of day tickets, quickly realizes it would be cheaper to buy everyone season passes, Then goes a head and purchases Season passes.

The family then goes out and enjoys their trip to Vail, they have a great time, the son wants to go skiing there again, Now Mom thinks, "we could go over spring break and because we have passes it wont cost us near as much money!" Now family comes skiing again, buys food, merch. and lodging, again,

Hopefully this made some sense to you all. I tried to dumb t down to newschoolers standards.


That makes some sense and is dumb at the same time. The beginner skier is not going to buy a season pass to try skiing for a day or two and they are also not going to want to spend a hundred or more dollars per individual skier either. In effect you lose. I like to do Nastar racing. I live in the mid-west and I refuse to spend $70 to $100 going to another resort to ski for an hour or two. Again you lose. I recently took my brother's family skiing. We were there for a day because just their 3 lift tickets cost me $156 and that is at one of the cheaper resorts. It would have been a lot more if I did not have equipment for them. If you have a family like that ski for 2 or 3 days you could buy a big screen TV instead. The busy resorts where they are closer to larger cities and charge high ticket prices are making a fortune while the more distant smaller resorts are struggling.
Jan 4 2017 12:46PM
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Malnourished
Posts: 3 - Karma: 9
None of these answers seem to pick up on the real reason. TOO MANY PEOPLE are willing to pay high prices. There are too many people in most major cities now. For example, Seattle has increased its population by so much that the ski parks are ALL full by 8:30am. So raise the prices, yet still full. Raise again, still full where's the ceiling on this thing?!? Raise it: Full. Only when people stop filling the park at high prices will the prices come down. There is very little competition so that isn't really a factor. It's like this in a lot of industries. Look at the price if iPhones, people pay 5x more than what they cost to build, so why would they lower the price. In our Effed up economy every quarter must have profits or the leadership gets fired or demoted, so they are incentivized to rip us off, it's called capitalism. They are "capitalizing" on our ignorance and lack of choice.

**This post was edited on Jan 6th 2019 at 4:12:24pm

**This post was edited on Jan 6th 2019 at 4:12:49pm
Jan 6 2019 4:11PM
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skiguy04
Posts: 1597 - Karma: 1,115
MalnourishedNone of these answers seem to pick up on the real reason. TOO MANY PEOPLE are willing to pay high prices. There are too many people in most major cities now. For example, Seattle has increased its population by so much that the ski parks are ALL full by 8:30am. So raise the prices, yet still full. Raise again, still full where's the ceiling on this thing?!? Raise it: Full. Only when people stop filling the park at high prices will the prices come down. There is very little competition so that that isn't really a factor. It's like this in a lot of industries. Look at the price if iPhones, people pay 5x more than what they cost to build, so why would they lower the price. In our Effed up economy every quarter must have profits or the leadership gets fired or demoted, so they are incentivized to rip us off, it's called capitalism. They are "capitalizing" on our ignorance and lack of choice.

**This post was edited on Jan 6th 2019 at 4:12:24pm

First post

Wall of text didn’t read but I’m sure the tickets are fairly priced based on today’s economy
Jan 6 2019 4:22PM
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Cole9
Posts: 339 - Karma: 741
MinggInflation


The average rate of inflation in the us is 0-2% depending on the year. I’m really doubting that’s the cause.
Just realized this thread is bumped and 2 years old…

**This post was edited on Jan 6th 2019 at 4:28:30pm
Jan 6 2019 4:27PM
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Malnourished
Posts: 3 - Karma: 9
skiguy04First post

Wall of text didn’t read but I’m sure the tickets are fairly priced based on today’s economy


It's not inflation, prices are up 40-50%, inflation is 1%. This is just greed for greeds sake.
Jan 6 2019 5:29PM
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Malnourished
Posts: 3 - Karma: 9
Cole9The average rate of inflation in the us is 0-2% depending on the year. I’m really doubting that’s the cause.
Just realized this thread is bumped and 2 years old…

**This post was edited on Jan 6th 2019 at 4:28:30pm


Still relevant. It's a question more should be asking instead of just paying.
Jan 6 2019 5:30PM
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BigPurpleSkiSuit
Posts: 9400 - Karma: 68,871
Agreed, when you factor in that I pay 450 for a seasons pass at snowbird minus the tram its ridiculous. That means if I get up 45 times, I've essentially paid 10 bucks a day to ski at snowbird plus maybe the one time I get a 15 dollar burger during the season. So my skiing basically funds one liftie's wage for 1 hour of every day.
The.FishId say inflation for most cases. However season pass prices are ridiculously cheap so that also may be a factor.
Jan 7 2019 2:29PM
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