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Rights to film skiers? profiting?

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doublecup
Posts: 946 - Karma: -662
do skiers have any protection (legally) from random ppl filming them ski and whoever is filming them profit off it?
Dec 9 2016 9:24AM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37355 - Karma: 119,591
bumping cus im interested as well and borty had a video of him getting knocked out on a backflip that TruTV used for one of their shitty video clip shows without him knowing
Dec 9 2016 11:24AM
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doublecup
Posts: 946 - Karma: -662
bump

im sure someone here know about this
Dec 9 2016 3:47PM
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Dddsz
Posts: 3042 - Karma: 7,324
Lots of resorts have disclaimers for tickets that say "You are subject to being filmed/photographed for promotional purposes."
Dec 9 2016 4:06PM
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doublecup
Posts: 946 - Karma: -662
SconnieLots of resorts have disclaimers for tickets that say "You are subject to being filmed/photographed for promotional purposes."


im not really wondering from the resort itself profiting off of filming a person ski, rather i am more interested in a random dude sitting it the park filming skiers and making a profit off of the footage
Dec 9 2016 4:17PM
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purplepants420
Posts: 343 - Karma: 884
Who was that dude that made it on the ellen show? Did he get paid or even know he would be on it?
Dec 9 2016 4:22PM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,914
Whoever owns the footage gets paid, the rider doesnt really have any rights.
Dec 9 2016 4:35PM
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doublecup
Posts: 946 - Karma: -662
eheathWhoever owns the footage gets paid, the rider doesnt really have any rights.


Isn't they kind of a conflict of interests when a filmer is profiting of someone else's talent? In cases where the rider doesn't know about getting filmed
Dec 9 2016 6:22PM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,914
beetlejuiceIsn't they kind of a conflict of interests when a filmer is profiting of someone else's talent? In cases where the rider doesn't know about getting filmed


Public place, just how it goes.
Dec 9 2016 6:33PM
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Hugh_Conway_jr
Posts: 746 - Karma: 467
Let me just google that for you ....

http://schoolvideonews.com/Legal/When-is-it-Legal-to-Film-People-Without-Their-Permission


the real question is, is the ski hill a public place. In most cases, I would argue that it is not. access is restricted, tickets are sold. you follow their rules.

Its quite likely that the resort has a policy about filming for commercial purposes, so you may be able to seek recourse from the filmmaker that way, or at least get resort staff to shut him down (once you can prove to them that he is filming for commercial purposes, and just documenting his rad vacation for his East Coast Buddies) ... If you can successfully argue that your were filmed on private property, then you could have legal recourse.

If the filmmaker uses an image of you to sell or promote their video, then you have rights to that aswell... but as a film is an artform or a form of expression, and assuming the footage was shot in a public space, and your likeness was not used as a marketing tool for the film, then you are out of luck.

... Even if you do think you have a case, how much money do you have to throw away to fight this? Legal fees for this are expensive. even if the case law is fully on your side, the profits generated from jo-blows backyard edit are going to minimal... and nowhere near enough to cover the legal fees for the first few hours of disclosures.
Dec 10 2016 4:38PM
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MikeWeinerONE
Posts: 501 - Karma: 1,215
beetlejuiceim not really wondering from the resort itself profiting off of filming a person ski, rather i am more interested in a random dude sitting it the park filming skiers and making a profit off of the footage


No filmer or photographer who is actually being paid for their work is going to be videoing or filming random people. They will pick and choose an athlete, and then work with the athlete and go shoot them and probably have a verbal or written contract as to the rights depending upon the distribution outlet. But nobody is out filming you or your friends and making money.
Dec 11 2016 2:38AM
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doublecup
Posts: 946 - Karma: -662
MikeWeinerONENo filmer or photographer who is actually being paid for their work is going to be videoing or filming random people. They will pick and choose an athlete, and then work with the athlete and go shoot them and probably have a verbal or written contract as to the rights depending upon the distribution outlet. But nobody is out filming you or your friends and making money.


What do me or my friends have to do with it?
Dec 11 2016 5:32AM
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Hugh_Conway_jr
Posts: 746 - Karma: 467
Even the guys getting paid aren't making any money.
the Action sports industry is built on the backs of athletes willing to sacrifice themselves for peanuts or a pro form.
Dec 11 2016 10:14AM
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MikeWeinerONE
Posts: 501 - Karma: 1,215
beetlejuiceWhat do me or my friends have to do with it?


My point wasn't you in particular. It was that anybody making money filming skiing isn't filming random people. It's like being an actor. A producer or director isn't shooting random people for city scenes or mountain scenes. They are all actors, which is essentially what a professional skier is. Nobody in ski production can make money shooting random people, and hardly make money shooting the best guys in the world.
Dec 11 2016 12:27PM
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Hugh_Conway_jr
Posts: 746 - Karma: 467
MikeWeinerONEMy point wasn't you in particular. It was that anybody making money filming skiing isn't filming random people. It's like being an actor. A producer or director isn't shooting random people for city scenes or mountain scenes. They are all actors, which is essentially what a professional skier is. Nobody in ski production can make money shooting random people, and hardly make money shooting the best guys in the world.


I don't about Nobody ... I mean, every Warren Miller movie I have ever seen is atleast 25% random gorbs skiing blues...

Maybe they are onto something?
Dec 11 2016 12:52PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5975 - Karma: 3,530
eheathWhoever owns the footage gets paid, the rider doesnt really have any rights.


????

To film someone and use it commercially (if they are a centre piece to the film and/or easily identifiable) you have to have a model release form signed. Without this you legally have no rights to use someone's image.

Obviously this isn't used in regards to your average jib edit but anything corporate would have it and anything planning on cashing in on it should. Just because some people don't use release forms doesn't make it legal nor waive the model's rights.
Dec 12 2016 10:08AM
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skiitsbetter
Posts: 133 - Karma: 309
bit of background on OP. He's got some banger "Jerry of the Day" footage he wants to sell to Unofficial Networks to make them relevant again.
Dec 12 2016 10:47AM
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bob_dole
Posts: 4078 - Karma: 1,579
eheathPublic place, just how it goes.


I'm really excited about this because big bad eheath is wrong.

Model releases, it's a real thing. If that person on truTV actually didn't get notified about it and give his consent, they fucked up. Any "legit" outlet needs to have their bases covered on this. Even when uploading to stock sites for video, you need to provide a photo ID of the person in the shot and a signed consent form / model release.

The only semi loophole in this if it is a shot of a person that is pretty indistinguishable. ie. The shot is so far away you can't really tell which specific person it is.

Public places gives you the right to shoot a broad crowd and not really call out anything about any particular person, the moment you single out someone and make them the central figure, you need to have their consent.

Internet / social media videos are all pretty grey area though and any of those random shows that just pick up a quick "trending" video to showcase are really dabbling in some random twilight zone that still hasn't really been solidified yet with rules etc.
Dec 12 2016 11:06AM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5975 - Karma: 3,530
bob_doleI'm really excited about this because big bad eheath is wrong.

Model releases, it's a real thing. If that person on truTV actually didn't get notified about it and give his consent, they fucked up. Any "legit" outlet needs to have their bases covered on this. Even when uploading to stock sites for video, you need to provide a photo ID of the person in the shot and a signed consent form / model release.

The only semi loophole in this if it is a shot of a person that is pretty indistinguishable. ie. The shot is so far away you can't really tell which specific person it is.

Public places gives you the right to shoot a broad crowd and not really call out anything about any particular person, the moment you single out someone and make them the central figure, you need to have their consent.

Internet / social media videos are all pretty grey area though and any of those random shows that just pick up a quick "trending" video to showcase are really dabbling in some random twilight zone that still hasn't really been solidified yet with rules etc.


exactly what I just said. I'm glad the video guy for NS knows how to legally film people...
Dec 13 2016 4:45AM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5975 - Karma: 3,530
bob_doleI'm really excited about this because big bad eheath is wrong.

Model releases, it's a real thing. If that person on truTV actually didn't get notified about it and give his consent, they fucked up. Any "legit" outlet needs to have their bases covered on this. Even when uploading to stock sites for video, you need to provide a photo ID of the person in the shot and a signed consent form / model release.

The only semi loophole in this if it is a shot of a person that is pretty indistinguishable. ie. The shot is so far away you can't really tell which specific person it is.

Public places gives you the right to shoot a broad crowd and not really call out anything about any particular person, the moment you single out someone and make them the central figure, you need to have their consent.

Internet / social media videos are all pretty grey area though and any of those random shows that just pick up a quick "trending" video to showcase are really dabbling in some random twilight zone that still hasn't really been solidified yet with rules etc.


exactly what I just said. I'm glad the video guy for NS knows how to legally film people...
Dec 13 2016 4:54AM
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eheath
Posts: 61588 - Karma: 122,914
hemlockjibber8exactly what I just said. I'm glad the video guy for NS knows how to legally film people...


Hennie is my friend, he loves to fuck with me. There is not a situation where this kind of thing would affect me in my current job, just saying.

The truth is here, you can go to the park and film skiers, if you're just filming random people you're not making money, unless you work for the resort and then you are covered by the fine print at the resort. There is literally no situation where you would film people without their permission while they're skiing and make money, so that's the end of the thread.
Dec 13 2016 12:39PM
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Hugh_Conway_jr
Posts: 746 - Karma: 467
You guys should read the legal article I posted, it really does give you the actual answer.

truth is, you can still make money off the filming, and still not have to give the skier any chedda. Your movie is art... so long as you don't use the images of the skiers to promote the sale of your artwork, its all gravy.
Dec 13 2016 6:31PM
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bob_dole
Posts: 4078 - Karma: 1,579
eheathHennie is my friend, he loves to fuck with me. There is not a situation where this kind of thing would affect me in my current job, just saying.

The truth is here, you can go to the park and film skiers, if you're just filming random people you're not making money, unless you work for the resort and then you are covered by the fine print at the resort. There is literally no situation where you would film people without their permission while they're skiing and make money, so that's the end of the thread.



I'm still counting that as a win.
Dec 13 2016 9:18PM
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fries
Posts: 2978 - Karma: 7,518
Aye i've thought of this before. Like what if some gaper filmed some skiers while hiding in the woods or something and then uploaded it on ns the next day.


jesus that would be hilarious
Dec 13 2016 9:21PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51585 - Karma: 161,684
DeebieSkeebiesbumping cus im interested as well and borty had a video of him getting knocked out on a backflip that TruTV used for one of their shitty video clip shows without him knowing


Yeah, where my millions. It's my money and I want it now'd

Also on topic, I signed a release in 2008 to be filmed/have pictures taken that were used in advertising. I didn't read it but I assume it said something about me waiving my right to getting any loot from that shit or something.

But with smart phones and the growth in the internet it does kind of seem like everything is just open and you can do whatever.
Dec 13 2016 9:25PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5975 - Karma: 3,530
eheathHennie is my friend, he loves to fuck with me. There is not a situation where this kind of thing would affect me in my current job, just saying.

The truth is here, you can go to the park and film skiers, if you're just filming random people you're not making money, unless you work for the resort and then you are covered by the fine print at the resort. There is literally no situation where you would film people without their permission while they're skiing and make money, so that's the end of the thread.


I'm not sure your point about hennie. I say his point is correct. As for your current employemnt, yeah i can see that it would never conflict with this. It is fairly general knowledge though. Of course 99% of the time a model release form is not needed. But in the specifics discussed here, they often would be. The question was about the law and not about your average situation.

As for a resort ticket including a model release... I've never seen that but I have with other businesses. Resorts I have worked for specifically needed a model release form.
Dec 14 2016 4:16AM
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