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Revision Messed Up

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Jcamotts
Posts: 156 - Karma: 2,598
So, back in September I was looking around for a new pair of skis for this season. After hours of searching, someone recommended revision skis. They look sick so I got them for a sick deal during the pre-sale. There was only one slight issue, the skis ship date was "mid November" although that was kinda annoying I knew I wouldn't be skiing at all between now and that time. Fast foward almost 3 months and I still havent heard from them, so I sent them an email regarding the shipping. They said that they would contact me in the next week for an Update. They sent another email a few days later saying they ran into some issues during production. "Due to some quality inconsistencies, we made the decision to rebuild a good portion of our skis". At that time I was like "ok, well I would rather wait 2-3 more weeks for solid skis then get low-quality skis now". They also said they would send another email in about a week for a new ETA. I got the email this morning and they said the new shipping date would be THE FIRST WEEK OF JANUARY. Thats almost have way into the ski season. I'm disappointed because the skis looked so fun but theres no way im waiting that long.


But thats not all, they also gave me (and all other customers) a $100 coupon to there website. Sure I appreciate them going out of there way to do that because they definitely feel bad abut this whole situation, but $100 is not gonna keep me waiting around for another month and a half. So, what do you guys think. Are any of you guys in the same Boat as Me?
Could this issue possibly be the end of revision?
Nov 26 2016 10:17AM
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Big_Mtn
Posts: 551 - Karma: 1,647
I guess that's what happens when you have to contract out your manufacturing in order to make up for the money they'll lose on the rail damage warranty.
Nov 26 2016 11:25AM
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Session
Posts: 5394 - Karma: 22,356
There is a reason Revision is cheap and has a ridiculous warranty. You get what you pay for.
Nov 26 2016 11:53AM
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TheDoughAbides
Posts: 1319 - Karma: 4,036
Yeah revision's durability is a joke. I bought a pair of talismans last season, dropped a 10ft cliff, landed on a rock and one ski blew up straight through the core. Bought them secondhand still-wrapped so i didn't get the warranty.

inb4 "thats what you get for dropping cliffs ya dummy." I've done way nastier shit to volkls and they've held up far better.

Shame too, they were wildly fun to ride. Expect to go through that warranty within a season.
Nov 26 2016 1:27PM
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ascent_studios
Posts: 2157 - Karma: 4,580
Buy ON3Ps or Icelantics

Both very quality skis that are much better than revision
Nov 26 2016 1:38PM
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Jibberino
Posts: 2089 - Karma: 1,346
TheDoughAbidesYeah revision's durability is a joke. I bought a pair of talismans last season, dropped a 10ft cliff, landed on a rock and one ski blew up straight through the core. Bought them secondhand still-wrapped so i didn't get the warranty.

inb4 "thats what you get for dropping cliffs ya dummy." I've done way nastier shit to volkls and they've held up far better.

Shame too, they were wildly fun to ride. Expect to go through that warranty within a season.


I have a hard time believing that a 10 ft drop straight to a rock wouldn't demolish pretty much any ski.
Nov 26 2016 2:42PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,186
JibberinoI have a hard time believing that a 10 ft drop straight to a rock wouldn't demolish pretty much any ski.


ON3P has some pretty hard bases..
Nov 26 2016 3:05PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51801 - Karma: 164,282
first week of jan isnt half way through the season but I hear you.
Nov 26 2016 3:18PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,186
theabortionatorfirst week of jan isnt half way through the season but I hear you.


Depending on where he lives, it could be. Aren't there some hills on the east coast that open up Late November/Early December then end up closing Feb/March?
Nov 26 2016 3:20PM
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Jcamotts
Posts: 156 - Karma: 2,598
theabortionatorfirst week of jan isnt half way through the season but I hear you.


.lenconDepending on where he lives, it could be. Aren't there some hills on the east coast that open up Late November/Early December then end up closing Feb/March?


Yeah I ski until march/ early April. not exactly half way through but its a good portion
Nov 26 2016 3:29PM
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johnk
Posts: 232 - Karma: 2,646
Welp, thats what happens when you buy from a unreliable, unproffessional, cheap ski brand. "Support the core, they said.. It will be fun they said.."
Nov 26 2016 3:30PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51801 - Karma: 164,282
.lenconDepending on where he lives, it could be. Aren't there some hills on the east coast that open up Late November/Early December then end up closing Feb/March?


I guess it's possible.

Nothing really closes before mid march, and those places generally open the end of december. On the east that is. But Idk the midwest schedule.
Nov 26 2016 3:39PM
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.lencon
Posts: 6753 - Karma: 17,186
theabortionatorI guess it's possible.

Nothing really closes before mid march, and those places generally open the end of december. On the east that is. But Idk the midwest schedule.


Oh the mountain I ski at in Idaho usually opens around Christmas and can close around mid march haha.

So generally you're right, that wouldn't be halfway through the season. I'd still be pissed and it's a good portion down the shitter
Nov 26 2016 3:42PM
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AngryGramps
Posts: 243 - Karma: 707
Yeah its a bummer, but the 100 bucks is a a nice gesture. Cop some gear, or save that hundred for another set of skis if you end up wanting a set next year (that would bring the price down to like sub 200 bucks for some of their skis...) Its a huge bummer that they're not shipping on time but its not fair for them to send out a sub quality product just to meet a shipping date.
Nov 26 2016 3:54PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5240 - Karma: 20,807
I'm kinda bummed as well, but also glad they let people know what was going on and won't be selling the skis because they aren't happy with the quality. The $100 is nice too.
Nov 26 2016 5:03PM
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a_burger
Posts: 5240 - Karma: 20,807
^that being said I already have skis, if I didnt have an extra set I'd be pretty pissed and would at least want the $100 taken off the skis cost rather than a gift code.
Nov 26 2016 5:09PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7149 - Karma: 52,298
johnkWelp, thats what happens when you buy from a unreliable, unproffessional, cheap ski brand. "Support the core, they said.. It will be fun they said.."



Sorry that this seems like a direct snap at you but I would like to address your train of thought that I'm sure you are not alone in. Reason being because I still believe in supporting the core because its a long term investment in our sport and I want there to be a future for it.


"unreliable" aka no issues in first 3 years of operation and plenty of happy customers which have allowed for the company to gro.

"unprofessional" aka deciding that quality of product is most important and knowningly taking the hit to their reputation (ex. this thread) instead of shipping out sub par skis. all the while maintaining timely communication with their customers + offering a $100 coupon code valid for TWO YEARS. I know this because I ordered a pair of skis and I still don't really mind.

"Cheap" Well this part was right, if you mean affordable. I'll just assume that was your usage.

All in all still way better to support a company with the potential to be part of the foundation of this niche rather than buying from corporate owned brands that have plenty of resources otherwise and will be just fine without our dollars. oh no revision had a delay. Yes its inconvenient but wouldn't it be dope for such brands to grow to a point where they have their own factory? or they can afford to build skis domestically for reasonable prices?

I'm not giving up on Revision, or any core skiing brand just yet. None of your should either.



Sugarbush's park opens around Christmas usually so I'm not stressin.
Nov 26 2016 5:43PM
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Jcamotts
Posts: 156 - Karma: 2,598
a_burger^that being said I already have skis, if I didnt have an extra set I'd be pretty pissed and would at least want the $100 taken off the skis cost rather than a gift code.


-DanSorry that this seems like a direct snap at you but I would like to address your train of thought that I'm sure you are not alone in. Reason being because I still believe in supporting the core because its a long term investment in our sport and I want there to be a future for it.


"unreliable" aka no issues in first 3 years of operation and plenty of happy customers which have allowed for the company to gro.

"unprofessional" aka deciding that quality of product is most important and knowningly taking the hit to their reputation (ex. this thread) instead of shipping out sub par skis. all the while maintaining timely communication with their customers + offering a $100 coupon code valid for TWO YEARS. I know this because I ordered a pair of skis and I still don't really mind.

"Cheap" Well this part was right, if you mean affordable. I'll just assume that was your usage.

All in all still way better to support a company with the potential to be part of the foundation of this niche rather than buying from corporate owned brands that have plenty of resources otherwise and will be just fine without our dollars. oh no revision had a delay. Yes its inconvenient but wouldn't it be dope for such brands to grow to a point where they have their own factory? or they can afford to build skis domestically for reasonable prices?

I'm not giving up on Revision, or any core skiing brand just yet. None of your should either.



Sugarbush's park opens around Christmas usually so I'm not stressin.


I didnt make this thread trying to trash revision as I know almost nothing about how to create/run a ski company, just thought this was an unusual circumstance and wnated to hear others opinions.

I was super hyped for these skis I just cant wait that long.
Nov 26 2016 5:57PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7149 - Karma: 52,298
JcamottsI didnt make this thread trying to trash revision as I know almost nothing about how to create/run a ski company, just thought this was an unusual circumstance and wnated to hear others opinions.

I was super hyped for these skis I just cant wait that long.

And you didn't trash them. Nothing wrong here. Great thread really. I'm just super opinionated on the related topic of supporting core brands. Glad you decided to take a chance with one. When you get the skis you'll have a blast.
Nov 26 2016 5:59PM
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Session
Posts: 5394 - Karma: 22,356
-DanAnd you didn't trash them. Nothing wrong here. Great thread really. I'm just super opinionated on the related topic of supporting core brands. Glad you decided to take a chance with one. When you get the skis you'll have a blast.


A. What defines a "core" brand.
B. Why is Revision "core"?

Revision is a marketing company. They don't build ski's. They don't own their own factory in China. They slap a logo on a faceless ski(with production and quality issues), and sponsor some people.

Is there even a history?
Nov 26 2016 8:22PM
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Jcamotts
Posts: 156 - Karma: 2,598
SessionA. What defines a "core" brand.
B. Why is Revision "core"?

Revision is a marketing company. They don't build ski's. They don't own their own factory in China. They slap a logo on a faceless ski(with production and quality issues), and sponsor some people.

Is there even a history?


Thats a bit harsh

Yes, they could have made better choices in regards to production. Obviously being a new and small company, factories in China will not pay as much attention/ spend enough time making a quality product as they would if they were producing product for a multi-million dollar company.

Buuuuuuut...
These are no "faceless skis" they spend time creating, designing and tweaking skis. they seem super unique and fun, just built by the wrong people.
Nov 26 2016 9:31PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2885 - Karma: 34,224
SessionA. What defines a "core" brand.
B. Why is Revision "core"?

Revision is a marketing company. They don't build ski's. They don't own their own factory in China. They slap a logo on a faceless ski(with production and quality issues), and sponsor some people.

Is there even a history?


This guy gets it
Nov 26 2016 10:12PM
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.Hugo.
Posts: 17360 - Karma: 28,488
-DanSorry that this seems like a direct snap at you but I would like to address your train of thought that I'm sure you are not alone in. Reason being because I still believe in supporting the core because its a long term investment in our sport and I want there to be a future for it.


"unreliable" aka no issues in first 3 years of operation and plenty of happy customers which have allowed for the company to gro.

"unprofessional" aka deciding that quality of product is most important and knowningly taking the hit to their reputation (ex. this thread) instead of shipping out sub par skis. all the while maintaining timely communication with their customers + offering a $100 coupon code valid for TWO YEARS. I know this because I ordered a pair of skis and I still don't really mind.

"Cheap" Well this part was right, if you mean affordable. I'll just assume that was your usage.

All in all still way better to support a company with the potential to be part of the foundation of this niche rather than buying from corporate owned brands that have plenty of resources otherwise and will be just fine without our dollars. oh no revision had a delay. Yes its inconvenient but wouldn't it be dope for such brands to grow to a point where they have their own factory? or they can afford to build skis domestically for reasonable prices?

I'm not giving up on Revision, or any core skiing brand just yet. None of your should either.



Sugarbush's park opens around Christmas usually so I'm not stressin.


shouldnt you be on instagram begging for likes
Nov 26 2016 11:06PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7149 - Karma: 52,298
SessionA. What defines a "core" brand.
B. Why is Revision "core"?

Revision is a marketing company. They don't build ski's. They don't own their own factory in China. They slap a logo on a faceless ski(with production and quality issues), and sponsor some people.

Is there even a history?


Why are you putting core in quotes?

core is "the part of something that is central to its existence or character."

Core brands are those owned/run by skiers, and catering to the heart of their sect of skiing. This can be via a specific product line, athlete support, or event and project support, or ideally a combination of all four. There is room for variation but that's what I value most.

I consider revision to be core because it's skier owned and run. They offer a product specific to the type of skiing I do(twin tip, rail warranty etc). They sponsor skiers that I like, put out free content with them and also sponsor movies too ( level 1, the bunch).

Isnt every ski company also a marketing company? Or every brand for that matter? If people didn't market their product it probably wouldn't be around too long. Revision specifically doesn't slap a logo on a faceless ski. The skis are designed by them via prototyping in the US then when the model is how they like it they produce it overseas. The sweeping production/ quality jab is unfair. Yes this year they delayed shipping, but my skis last year showed up early and held up all season. Then, if they hadn't, I could have gotten a new pair even destroying them on rails.

What sorta story would you be looking for? I'm sure there is one, but telling it would only be marketing.
Nov 26 2016 11:08PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7149 - Karma: 52,298
.Hugo.shouldnt you be on instagram begging for likes

Nah that's only on follower fridays. Today I was begging for comments.
Nov 26 2016 11:11PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2885 - Karma: 34,224
-DanWhy are you putting core in quotes?

core is "the part of something that is central to its existence or character."

Core brands are those owned/run by skiers, and catering to the heart of their sect of skiing. This can be via a specific product line, athlete support, or event and project support, or ideally a combination of all four. There is room for variation but that's what I value most.

I consider revision to be core because it's skier owned and run. They offer a product specific to the type of skiing I do(twin tip, rail warranty etc). They sponsor skiers that I like, put out free content with them and also sponsor movies too ( level 1, the bunch).

Isnt every ski company also a marketing company? Or every brand for that matter? If people didn't market their product it probably wouldn't be around too long. Revision specifically doesn't slap a logo on a faceless ski. The skis are designed by them via prototyping in the US then when the model is how they like it they produce it overseas. The sweeping production/ quality jab is unfair. Yes this year they delayed shipping, but my skis last year showed up early and held up all season. Then, if they hadn't, I could have gotten a new pair even destroying them on rails.

What sorta story would you be looking for? I'm sure there is one, but telling it would only be marketing.


your boys at hg are core they worked at it. Revision just came out of no where and signed up skiers for their team with skis made in china. I get it you know people that rep them so to you they are core, but really no they just market to those that want to be.
Nov 26 2016 11:34PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7149 - Karma: 52,298
buzzedyour boys at hg are core they worked at it. Revision just came out of no where and signed up skiers for their team with skis made in china. I get it you know people that rep them so to you they are core, but really no they just market to those that want to be.


Different business models and amounts of start up cash. It's not just that I know people that rep them. I know people that rep line, atomic, and whatever else that I wouldn't give this time to defend.

Why does it matter where skis were made in the context of being a core brand?

fhanks for the cordial discourse btw. Fun topic to sort out.
Nov 26 2016 11:41PM
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Session
Posts: 5394 - Karma: 22,356
-DanWhy are you putting core in quotes?

core is "the part of something that is central to its existence or character."

Core brands are those owned/run by skiers, and catering to the heart of their sect of skiing. This can be via a specific product line, athlete support, or event and project support, or ideally a combination of all four. There is room for variation but that's what I value most.

I consider revision to be core because it's skier owned and run. They offer a product specific to the type of skiing I do(twin tip, rail warranty etc). They sponsor skiers that I like, put out free content with them and also sponsor movies too ( level 1, the bunch).

Isnt every ski company also a marketing company? Or every brand for that matter? If people didn't market their product it probably wouldn't be around too long. Revision specifically doesn't slap a logo on a faceless ski. The skis are designed by them via prototyping in the US then when the model is how they like it they produce it overseas. The sweeping production/ quality jab is unfair. Yes this year they delayed shipping, but my skis last year showed up early and held up all season. Then, if they hadn't, I could have gotten a new pair even destroying them on rails.

What sorta story would you be looking for? I'm sure there is one, but telling it would only be marketing.



You make it seem to simple to be "core" (I quote it, because it sounds fucking lame). Basically just have some money, so you can get some shit ski's from anywhere that speak to your sensibilities. Slap a cool logo(Revision is meh), flow some product, and film some shit. Seems like a pretty low barrier to entry. If I make some ugly T-shirts, flow them to some B-reel pro's and put out some edit's am I then a "core" company? Maybe I could even get an orange name on NS.

The warranty is a joke, because trhe ski's are a joke. The only reason they can afford to do such a thing is because their cost per unit must be ridiculously low. Because obviously they use a bush league factory in china, and obviously don't travel to do quality control.
Nov 26 2016 11:44PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7149 - Karma: 52,298
SessionYou make it seem to simple to be "core" (I quote it, because it sounds fucking lame). Basically just have some money, so you can get some shit ski's from anywhere that speak to your sensibilities. Slap a cool logo(Revision is meh), flow some product, and film some shit. Seems like a pretty low barrier to entry. If I make some ugly T-shirts, flow them to some B-reel pro's and put out some edit's am I then a "core" company? Maybe I could even get an orange name on NS.

The warranty is a joke, because trhe ski's are a joke. The only reason they can afford to do such a thing is because their cost per unit must be ridiculously low. Because obviously they use a bush league factory in china, and obviously don't travel to do quality control.

Why should it be hard to be core? Sounds like a solid plan for starting a core company. That's pretty much the story for jiberish, saga, yoke, tomahawk, tall t productions. You don't have to bleed to be core. You just have to care enough about something and want to be a contributor to it.



What is your stance other than you don't like revision? I won't waste your time any more with refuting your comments about them.
Nov 26 2016 11:52PM
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snowfinder
Posts: 2885 - Karma: 34,224
Guys I got it.

Just need a few investors from NS and we can start up a ski company called Division skis. With a cool D logo and a cool tag line like Slay the D.

Make the skis at some shitty China factory that makes Defiance or Teton Skis.

Slap a great warranty on them because fuck it why not they cost like 20 buck to make.

Sign up some up and comer riders and say hey look we are on NS too super core just like you! Give them some skis for the big cost of a Jackson in turn for some media to edit up.

Sell skis cheap during the off season while over saturating all social media with the footy for the boys. Then up the price right before winter to catch those all hyped on the skis.

?????

Profit.
Nov 27 2016 12:04AM
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J-C
Posts: 1138 - Karma: 3,683
I would totally invest in that idea ^

I totally respect Revision for doing this and I think that it's the right thing to do but this is definitely disappointing. I'm starting work next week as park crew and I only have my rockers 122s with guardians. I was already expecting to work the first week or two on them but now that shipping is the first week of January, the skis are probably only going to arrive late January which I can't go until with my pow skis. I'll probably call on Monday to try and get a refund.

This sucks because I really wanted to try the skis out. Is anyone else looking into getting a refund but according to their website I won't be able to: "Cancellation/Refund Policy
You may cancel your order at any time before it has shipped to you (excluding pre-sale orders). Orders placed via pre-sale are not eligible for order cancellation. Unused products in original packaging may be returned for a full refund within 14 days of purchase."

I really hope this excludes this kind of mess up. I know it's not their fault but this just sucks.
Nov 27 2016 12:27AM
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-Dan
Posts: 7149 - Karma: 52,298
buzzedGuys I got it.

Just need a few investors from NS and we can start up a ski company called Division skis. With a cool D logo and a cool tag line like Slay the D.

Make the skis at some shitty China factory that makes Defiance or Teton Skis.

Slap a great warranty on them because fuck it why not they cost like 20 buck to make.

Sign up some up and comer riders and say hey look we are on NS too super core just like you! Give them some skis for the big cost of a Jackson in turn for some media to edit up.

Sell skis cheap during the off season while over saturating all social media with the footy for the boys. Then up the price right before winter to catch those all hyped on the skis.

?????

Profit.


God forbid someone start a company that caters to the NS core. Why can't we just be stuck with racing brands like atomic that decide to cut an entire country's freeski program and give all their former riders directional skis as a parting gift. Yes that really happened.

What are you so against?
Nov 27 2016 12:35AM
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AngryGramps
Posts: 243 - Karma: 707
buzzedGuys I got it.

Just need a few investors from NS and we can start up a ski company called Division skis. With a cool D logo and a cool tag line like Slay the D.

Make the skis at some shitty China factory that makes Defiance or Teton Skis.

Slap a great warranty on them because fuck it why not they cost like 20 buck to make.

Sign up some up and comer riders and say hey look we are on NS too super core just like you! Give them some skis for the big cost of a Jackson in turn for some media to edit up.

Sell skis cheap during the off season while over saturating all social media with the footy for the boys. Then up the price right before winter to catch those all hyped on the skis.

?????

Profit.

your killing me dude.
think about this: there is about a 50% margin on any profitable product after development, manufacture and shipping. as a producer of said product (skis in this case) a retail front (ski shop) will order x number of skis at ~50% markup from production cost to sell to you, the consumer at another ~50% mark up. Revision doesn't sell through shops, so you get that first price. that is how the skis are so cheap and they can still make money, no cut in quality, no inferior product. Just to be clear any ski brand could theoretically do this, and deliver the same product with the same margin for less price to the consumer (how pro forms work). so say for instance the skis really are horrible quality (the fact that they're not is the only reason this works) and they need the warranty, great. Revision has to replace the set of skis they sold at a 50% markup with a set that they pay for 100%. This means they lose money on every set they warranty, meaning that the only reason they would offer the warranty that is not even an industry standard is because they believe in their product, don't think the skis are gonna fall apart and believe that skis marketed for park skiing should be made for and covered while park skiing. Is it a selling point? yes. is it profitable to cut 20 bucks from manufacturing costs off of a $150 ski only to have to replace it for another $150 when it breaks because you used lesser quality materials? No. Revision is not some faceless corporation trying to suck money out of skiing, Its a few people addressing issues they see in the way skis are built, marketed and sold and trying to carve a niche out with like minded people. Nobody is getting rich off freeskiing, if somebody was, then K2 wouldn't be constantly under the corperate axe, branded as an under performer in publicly traded conglomerates. If you are trying to make money screwing people, there are better businesses to be in. Maybe you'd wanna try ones that don't barely make money 6 months out of the year if it snows.

I try not to comment in these threads because its probably just trolling but whatever, its good for freeskiing to have these conversations and decide who is worth our money and support.
Nov 27 2016 2:33AM
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sbarlett
Posts: 882 - Karma: 4,255
same situation for me. bummed because it's my first season out west and i won't likely have my pow skis mounted until mid january. still will have plenty of season left for em just sucks we couldn't get the skis when they were supposed to come.
Nov 27 2016 2:53AM
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yoke
Posts: 150 - Karma: 5,504
Dan you still on the pay roll? Serious Kool-aid party you got going here.
Nov 27 2016 4:30AM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,054
Does anyone else find the name "Revision" hilarious? I mean it's pretty tongue in cheek for the second try at a ski company after Epic Planks failed. I wonder what the next company will be called, maybe "Here comes the 0-2 Pitch" or "Maybe this will work"
Nov 27 2016 10:43AM
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Coalescent
Posts: 4871 - Karma: 2,063
loganimlachDoes anyone else find the name "Revision" hilarious? I mean it's pretty tongue in cheek for the second try at a ski company after Epic Planks failed. I wonder what the next company will be called, maybe "Here comes the 0-2 Pitch" or "Maybe this will work"



Lol. So true.
Nov 27 2016 10:52AM
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Obie.
Posts: 1741 - Karma: 3,646
loganimlachDoes anyone else find the name "Revision" hilarious? I mean it's pretty tongue in cheek for the second try at a ski company after Epic Planks failed.


Haha, but at least it's a step up from the name "Epic Planks." Always cringed at the sight of that. Even with their strong ties to my home state I could never respect the horrible brand name they chose on that one.
Nov 27 2016 11:07AM
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leprechaunsissy
Posts: 645 - Karma: 237
JibberinoI have a hard time believing that a 10 ft drop straight to a rock wouldn't demolish pretty much any ski.


You should try dropping a 10 ft 'rock'
Nov 27 2016 11:16AM
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Session
Posts: 5394 - Karma: 22,356
loganimlachDoes anyone else find the name "Revision" hilarious? I mean it's pretty tongue in cheek for the second try at a ski company after Epic Planks failed. I wonder what the next company will be called, maybe "Here comes the 0-2 Pitch" or "Maybe this will work"


Dying over here.

But at least they're "core" bro.
Nov 27 2016 2:08PM
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hot.pocket
Posts: 4232 - Karma: 10,681
-DanI'm just super opinionated on the related topic of supporting core brands. Glad you decided to take a chance with one. When you get the skis you'll have a blast.


What do you consider a core brand? Does it stop at Revision / HG / Vishnu or Moment / ON3P / Armada or does it go all the way up to Atomic / Volkl / Head?

Atomic seems pretty core in terms of racing skis, are there different versions of "core" depending on what type of skiing you're doing?

Is it how big the company is, that determines when they stop being core? Or the quality of their skis? Or the size of their team?

You seem to throw "core" at brands like yoke, hg, revision, tomahawk, etc... yet go on to explain core as anyone that cares enough about something to contribute to it.

As far as I know, Atomic is still making some banger park skis for some of the top freeskiers, the entire Wells family for starters, shouldn't that make them "core"? Are they too big to be core or is core just a term you're using to promote the brands that you like?
Nov 27 2016 2:26PM
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ascent_studios
Posts: 2157 - Karma: 4,580
hot.pocketWhat do you consider a core brand? Does it stop at Revision / HG / Vishnu or Moment / ON3P / Armada or does it go all the way up to Atomic / Volkl / Head?

Atomic seems pretty core in terms of racing skis, are there different versions of "core" depending on what type of skiing you're doing?

Is it how big the company is, that determines when they stop being core? Or the quality of their skis? Or the size of their team?

You seem to throw "core" at brands like yoke, hg, revision, tomahawk, etc... yet go on to explain core as anyone that cares enough about something to contribute to it.

As far as I know, Atomic is still making some banger park skis for some of the top freeskiers, the entire Wells family for starters, shouldn't that make them "core"? Are they too big to be core or is core just a term you're using to promote the brands that you like?


truth
Nov 27 2016 2:38PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7149 - Karma: 52,298
hot.pocketWhat do you consider a core brand? Does it stop at Revision / HG / Vishnu or Moment / ON3P / Armada or does it go all the way up to Atomic / Volkl / Head?

Atomic seems pretty core in terms of racing skis, are there different versions of "core" depending on what type of skiing you're doing?

Is it how big the company is, that determines when they stop being core? Or the quality of their skis? Or the size of their team?

You seem to throw "core" at brands like yoke, hg, revision, tomahawk, etc... yet go on to explain core as anyone that cares enough about something to contribute to it.

As far as I know, Atomic is still making some banger park skis for some of the top freeskiers, the entire Wells family for starters, shouldn't that make them "core"? Are they too big to be core or is core just a term you're using to promote the brands that you like?


I draw the line pretty quick because the skiing I care about is so niche. So brands like Line and Armada are on the edge for me. But that isn't because their size. I wouldn't use size, or quality as a limiting factor when it comes to this. Saga is pretty large but i still consider them a core brand. Atomic makes quality skis but that doesnt make them a core brand.

Atomic would be a core racing brand sure. So if you are a racer then go grab some race skis from them. Def grab some of their boots, Matt Manser (onenerdykid) is a genius. I said what makes a core brand for me is ownership, athlete support, content and events sponsorship. There may be some items worth adding, but I dont think you could take those out of the equation.

When I was saying that core could be anyone that cares about something enough to contribute to it I meant that on an individual level, not from a company stand point. If you are putting edits on NS, spending your money with core brands, starting your own companies with the goal of giving back to the sport whether it be with tech, money, or content or other ways then you are part of freeskiing's core.

So no, core isnt a term I'm fabricating to promote brands that I like. It's a term that exists across action sports, and probably most markets, that represents the heart of the market demographic and i'm promoting the concept because I think it's important enough to be discussed and the sooner kids find out the better off skiing will be.
Nov 27 2016 2:51PM
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Jibberino
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leprechaunsissyYou should try dropping a 10 ft 'rock'


What?
Nov 27 2016 2:59PM
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hot.pocket
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-DanSo brands like Line and Armada are on the edge for me. But that isn't because their size.

If you are putting edits on NS, spending your money with core brands, starting your own companies with the goal of giving back to the sport whether it be with tech, money, or content or other ways then you are part of freeskiing's core.


In terms of putting content on NS and giving tech / money / content towards freeskiing, shouldn't both Line and Armada be considered core?

Travelling Circus, Andy Parry's tour, Sammy Carlson's semi consistent free content, BE Inspired's movies, the absurd amount of Line skiers, are these not enough to be considered core?

What could companies like Line and Armada do (that they're not already doing) to be considered core?
Nov 27 2016 3:03PM
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yoke
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-DanSo no, core isnt a term I'm fabricating to promote brands that I like. It's a term that exists across action sports, and probably most markets, that represents the heart of the market demographic and i'm promoting the concept because I think it's important enough to be discussed and the sooner kids find out the better off skiing will be.



Revision would not pass as CORE in any other action sport industry. I honestly don't think you would be backing these guys if it wasn't for the connection you have with them. Middle age recreational skiers who made some money in the bio-med / pharm industry starts a ski company, seeking investors! NOT CORE.

The fact that you are on the fence with Line and Armada really shows how delusional(naive maybe) your mind set is. If Line or Armada goes away the core of this industry will stuffer greatly. These brands have been and are the backbone of free skiing. If revision goes away tomorrow, poof...
Nov 27 2016 3:07PM
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yoke
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yokeRevision would not pass as CORE in any other action sport industry. I honestly don't think you would be backing these guys if it wasn't for the connection you have with them. Middle age recreational skiers who made some money in the bio-med / pharm industry starts a ski company, seeking investors! NOT CORE.

The fact that you are on the fence with Line and Armada really shows how delusional(naive maybe) your mind set is. If Line or Armada goes away the core of this industry will stuffer greatly. These brands have been and are the backbone of free skiing. If revision goes away tomorrow, poof...


I will note that I'm not totally writing off the brand, will also note that when you're coming out of left field with no street cred its going to take more than a few seasons to prove your self.
Nov 27 2016 3:24PM
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TheDoughAbides
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JibberinoI have a hard time believing that a 10 ft drop straight to a rock wouldn't demolish pretty much any ski.


lol yeeaaah 10ft may have been a fish story. it was probably closer to 7 or 8ft. but it we got about 14 inches the night before!

also in the event that you do bust the bases open you'll likely find that the letters and the background are made of different materials instead of being printed onto one solid piece.

this may have changed in the most recent models but thats what i saw in my mangled ski.
Nov 27 2016 3:35PM
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..=
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Finally an interesting thread on NS. It only took months, but here we are folks. Come one, come all, see damage control and naysayers alike!
Nov 27 2016 3:36PM
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hot.pocket
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TheDoughAbidesalso in the event that you do bust the bases open you'll likely find that the letters and the background are made of different materials instead of being printed onto one solid piece.


Diecuts are becoming the norm throughout the ski industry, and if you do it right it won't change how the ski performs or the durability of the ski. It's the same material, just different colors. It helps create sharper lines compared to sublimated bases and cuts production time by quite a bit without sacrificing quality.

Look at 4frnt's line, most (if not all, I think it's all) of their bases are diecuts. Revision does the same thing. A good portion of Armada has diecuts.
Nov 27 2016 3:45PM
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-Dan
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hot.pocketIn terms of putting content on NS and giving tech / money / content towards freeskiing, shouldn't both Line and Armada be considered core?

Travelling Circus, Andy Parry's tour, Sammy Carlson's semi consistent free content, BE Inspired's movies, the absurd amount of Line skiers, are these not enough to be considered core?

What could companies like Line and Armada do (that they're not already doing) to be considered core?


Sorry, when I said on the edge I mean on the side that I'd consider core. I used to think otherwise, but after some discussion with a few different people I got to see it this way. The importance of these two brands specifically is unparallelled in freeskiing right now.

Thats one thing I really value over the last year of being as openly opinionated as I have been. It sparks the discussion and gives me the opportunity to learn more, grow my perspective, and fine tune my beliefs. I also think there are kids out there paying attention and I know I wish people talked about this sorta thing when I was 15 first getting into it.
Nov 27 2016 4:08PM
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