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Best 3 layer outerwear system

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Iliveinutah
Posts: 1250 - Karma: 5,147
So I am looking to clean out my closet of the oversized saga and get some more technical layering outwear for short touring trips and everyday lift riding.

I know most people do a wicking base layer
a fleece or down
and then a hard shell

I want to know what you guys have found that works well and what doesn't.

I get a killer deal on Columbia, Helly Hansen, the north face and Arc'teryx so any recommendations within those brands would be awesome.

what works, what sucks?
Nov 21 2016 10:24PM
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fries
Posts: 2978 - Karma: 7,521
i got a new north face jacket this summer at sun and ski.

i dont know if those stores are in every state but yeah. honestly just get anything thats reputable and not saga and you're already doing better. arc'teryx is also a very nice brand
Nov 21 2016 10:48PM
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CatBoy
Posts: 234 - Karma: 990
With touring I rarely use my hardshell. I wear my arcteryx atom lt as my most superficial layer unless the weather is extremely heinous. That being said, I like my hardshells to be super light and packable (marmot minimalist right now). Typical day is: base layer (merino), atom lt, then hardshell in the backpack. On really cold trips, I'll carry a super packable insulated layer as well (nano puff). For pants I really want some breathable bibs, or at least ones with full leg vents (ie planks yeti bibs).


However, skiing at the resort doesn't require much efficiency (you can always drop layers off in the car), and I'll still rock my tall, heavy saga jacket.
Nov 21 2016 10:52PM
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BrokenBones
Posts: 1275 - Karma: 703
d.grayumWith touring I rarely use my hardshell. I wear my arcteryx atom lt as my most superficial layer unless the weather is extremely heinous. That being said, I like my hardshells to be super light and packable (marmot minimalist right now). Typical day is: base layer (merino), atom lt, then hardshell in the backpack. On really cold trips, I'll carry a super packable insulated layer as well (nano puff). For pants I really want some breathable bibs, or at least ones with full leg vents (ie planks yeti bibs).


However, skiing at the resort doesn't require much efficiency (you can always drop layers off in the car), and I'll still rock my tall, heavy saga jacket.


There is your answer. Personally, I rock the Patagonia merino air for my base layer, Patagonia nano air as my mid, and a gore pro shell when I need it. If you are touring, I would bring a much lighter shell if you can get your hands on one.

If you want this kind of stuff on the cheap check out the TGR Gearswap forums. Those dorks sell nerdy tech stuff instead of saga and jiberish.
Nov 21 2016 10:59PM
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Iliveinutah
Posts: 1250 - Karma: 5,147
d.grayumWith touring I rarely use my hardshell. I wear my arcteryx atom lt as my most superficial layer unless the weather is extremely heinous. That being said, I like my hardshells to be super light and packable (marmot minimalist right now). Typical day is: base layer (merino), atom lt, then hardshell in the backpack. On really cold trips, I'll carry a super packable insulated layer as well (nano puff). For pants I really want some breathable bibs, or at least ones with full leg vents (ie planks yeti bibs).


However, skiing at the resort doesn't require much efficiency (you can always drop layers off in the car), and I'll still rock my tall, heavy saga jacket.


I was looking at the atom but was sure what one to get, would you think a 800 fill down mid size jacket for cold days and an atom lt rather then a fleece layer on warm days? also what is your thoughts on synthetic vs merino base layers
Nov 21 2016 10:59PM
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BrokenBones
Posts: 1275 - Karma: 703
IliveinutahI was looking at the atom but was sure what one to get, would you think a 800 fill down mid size jacket for cold days and an atom lt rather then a fleece layer on warm days? also what is your thoughts on synthetic vs merino base layers


Merino for sure. Also, if you can get a deal on the Atom LT do it. That jacket is incredibly versatile.
Nov 21 2016 11:02PM
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Pachankz
Posts: 729 - Karma: 838
http://armadaskis.com/mens/technical-layering/

http://armadaskis.com/product/sherwin-gore-tex-3l-jacket/
Nov 22 2016 12:52AM
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Iliveinutah
Posts: 1250 - Karma: 5,147
Pachankzhttp://armadaskis.com/mens/technical-layering/

http://armadaskis.com/product/sherwin-gore-tex-3l-jacket/


i do get a armada deal as well but not enough of one where i could afford that jacket haha i wish. as for theyer layers they are sub prime compared to Helly Hansen or any non-park based company IMO.

that is the type of jacket i am looking for though.
Nov 22 2016 1:09AM
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Pachankz
Posts: 729 - Karma: 838
Iliveinutahi do get a armada deal as well but not enough of one where i could afford that jacket haha i wish. as for theyer layers they are sub prime compared to Helly Hansen or any non-park based company IMO.

that is the type of jacket i am looking for though.


Best jacket I've ever owned . And I would have to disagree about the layers as well . I wear the contra base layer with the rotor balaclava layer as a mid layer and on realllly cold days add the puffy layer as well so it's a 4 part system. Extremely light weight, warm , and compliments the shell perfectly.
Nov 22 2016 1:20AM
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doitbig
Posts: 4818 - Karma: 315
Hard to beat the saga 3L shells are solid for the price.
Nov 22 2016 8:31AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
Any 3layer 20k+ shell pants and jacket that has vents. Get some merino base layers. A wool flannel, a packable primaloft down jacket, and you'll be good to go. Some full leather gloves with a fuck ton of snpseal baked in is also quite nice.

I'm a big dude, so weight isn't all that important to me, and frankly it shouldn't be for you. Durability, function and price are my big concerns... I can always get in better shape :)
Nov 22 2016 1:48PM
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OregonDead
Posts: 6949 - Karma: 25,109
Get a vest. I have a prima loft vest, a down vest, a couple different fleece vests. Super useful to layer under your shell or wear instead of a shell.
Nov 22 2016 3:14PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1656 - Karma: 942
A few seasons ago in the Wasatch I did an experiment to see if I would ever really need super technical clothing by just wearing a softshell from Nike. It worked great on all but the heaviest days. And to be honest 3L gore is loud and uncomfortable. You would be a lot more comfortable wearing layers like those that were mentioned + a quality windproof softshell jacket/pants combo. If the fit works for you Black Diamond has an endless array of options to chose from in that department.
Nov 22 2016 3:45PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
.[sanhedrin].A few seasons ago in the Wasatch I did an experiment to see if I would ever really need super technical clothing by just wearing a softshell from Nike. It worked great on all but the heaviest days. And to be honest 3L gore is loud and uncomfortable. You would be a lot more comfortable wearing layers like those that were mentioned + a quality windproof softshell jacket/pants combo. If the fit works for you Black Diamond has an endless array of options to chose from in that department.


Good advice for the interior/Rockies. Not so good for anything along the coast haha. It's not super fun having water logged clothing in a storm 1+ hours from your car. It is character building though!

But yeah, you can get away with a soft shell on 90% of days as long as nothing goes wrong and you don't have to spend an extended amount of time in the snow.
Nov 22 2016 4:16PM
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CatBoy
Posts: 234 - Karma: 990
IliveinutahI was looking at the atom but was sure what one to get, would you think a 800 fill down mid size jacket for cold days and an atom lt rather then a fleece layer on warm days? also what is your thoughts on synthetic vs merino base layers


Merino vs Synthetic- I just got sick of the synthetic smelling like shit. Polyester holds bacteria like crazy. That's mainly it for me.

I absolutely love my atom lt. I don't know if I would have a separate jacket for cold and my atom for warm.. I typically just bring my atom no matter what and adjust accordingly with other layers. You'd be surprised how warm you get while touring with it.
Nov 22 2016 4:45PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1656 - Karma: 942
californiagrownGood advice for the interior/Rockies. Not so good for anything along the coast haha. It's not super fun having water logged clothing in a storm 1+ hours from your car. It is character building though!

But yeah, you can get away with a soft shell on 90% of days as long as nothing goes wrong and you don't have to spend an extended amount of time in the snow.


I'm solely basing my remarks off of his NS name. If that's accurate he will rarely needs anything 3L. Plus it is a lot more money for all those bells and whistles.
Nov 22 2016 6:20PM
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patagonialuke
Posts: 1627 - Karma: 8,686
Base: 150 g/m Merino (Icebreaker) for most days, 260 g/m for really cold days.

Mid: Patagonia R1 Hoody for most days, Atom LT for colder days.

Shell:
Top: Patagonia Houdini for mild weather days, Gore Pro (Arc'teryx Alpha FL) for wet days.
Bottom: Polartec Power Shield Pro (Patagonia Alpine Guide)

This is my personal setup, but in general I'd highly recommend getting some sort of quality merino wool baselayer, a breathable midlayer (fleece or something like the Atom LT, Patagonia Nano Air, etc), and a light shell.

I really like softshell or softshell/hardshell pants for the vast majority of days b/c of the much better breathability, and I don't find that I often need a completely waterproof bottom.

Brands that I like right now for high quality layers: Arc'teryx, Patagonia, Strafe, Trew, Norrona.
Nov 23 2016 12:57PM
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TheDoughAbides
Posts: 1319 - Karma: 4,036
merino or cashmere base depending on temp (you can find cashmere CHEAP if you know where to look)

atom lt mid

lab coat 2.0 shell
Nov 23 2016 1:42PM
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LAME.
Posts: 5795 - Karma: 2,446
After spending several seasons in the PNW I would have to say its just not worth it not to have tech layers, as well as a nice 20k shell. Its just so damn wet so many days. In most cases you get what you pay for, and after dropping thousands of dollars on passes, skis, and gas, you might as well have the proper gear.
Nov 23 2016 4:29PM
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Zypher
Posts: 2337 - Karma: 2,268
You don't need overly expensive and crazy shit to survive the PNW. On my legs, I wear 20k pants (iNi pants that are some old model I got for 70 bucks) and the armada contra 3/4 pant. Thats enough to keep me warm when the weather hits 0 and a bit below. If im freezing my ass off, i throw some light sweatpants on top of my contras and i'm good for the day.

As for everything else, its always the same. Sometimes a base layer, T shirt, cheep ass puffy or hoodie, and an old Arcteryx gore-tex pro shell. For when its not raining or snowing, I just throw the jacket in my pack or car and shred as is.

I ski 45+ days a year and honestly have never had a problem with my setup. Your layers matter but whats on the outside (pants and jacket) matter the most because that's what keeps you dry. Insulation doesn't matter if you're soaking wet.
Nov 23 2016 6:09PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
ZypherYou don't need overly expensive and crazy shit to survive the PNW. On my legs, I wear 20k pants (iNi pants that are some old model I got for 70 bucks) and the armada contra 3/4 pant. Thats enough to keep me warm when the weather hits 0 and a bit below. If im freezing my ass off, i throw some light sweatpants on top of my contras and i'm good for the day.

As for everything else, its always the same. Sometimes a base layer, T shirt, cheep ass puffy or hoodie, and an old Arcteryx gore-tex pro shell. For when its not raining or snowing, I just throw the jacket in my pack or car and shred as is.

I ski 45+ days a year and honestly have never had a problem with my setup. Your layers matter but whats on the outside (pants and jacket) matter the most because that's what keeps you dry. Insulation doesn't matter if you're soaking wet.


Ummmm insulation matters ESPECIALLY when you're soaking wet hahaha.

I agree no need for the most up to date stuff, but I don't do down or cotton because of the issues when wet. Wool, primarily, polartec, 20k+ shells only for me. And my layers are all 5+ years old... because their performance doesn't really decrease with age.


If you're just staying inbounds then it doesn't matter too much what you wear cause the lodge and car are right tgere
Nov 23 2016 6:44PM
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Banane.
Posts: 3102 - Karma: 414
Well, I work for north face and I own a lot of arc'teryx as well.

1. A base layer, I alway wear Icebreaker, thickness may vary on the weather.

2. I have a lot of mid layer. Depend on the weather,

- The north face l2 fleece, Just got it, so did not tried it.
- Arc'teryc Atom Sl, New, havent tried it too, but I wore it all summer and fall for biking and what not
- Arc'teryx Atom Lt, It's my second one, Love it, I mostly just wear that when touring and I'm good for pretty much anything, except big big wind.
- The north face Quincey for really cold resort day

3. A hardshell,

- I have The north face freethinker as a Resort and side country touring. Really nice fit, keep me dry and protect me from the wind. I had the Arc'teryx rush before. REayll nice too

- Arc'teryx Sphene, I wear that when I need something more packable and on the lighter side.

- Arc'teryx Alpha Sv, I never take it, unless I need to wear an harness.

At the end, If you want One mid layer, The atom LT is superb and for the hardshell, I really like the sphene, really well made, that would be my choice
Nov 23 2016 10:26PM
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Iliveinutah
Posts: 1250 - Karma: 5,147
all great input guys im pretty so sold on the atom lt for the 70 or so i can get it for i think it will be a good investment. I also get good deals on Smartwool, icebreaker, craft, and helly hansen any rec amongst brand for baselayers? im also down for used stuff so any recs on good 15+k hardshell that i could find cheapist would be dope.
Nov 23 2016 10:34PM
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Banane.
Posts: 3102 - Karma: 414
Iliveinutahall great input guys im pretty so sold on the atom lt for the 70 or so i can get it for i think it will be a good investment. I also get good deals on Smartwool, icebreaker, craft, and helly hansen any rec amongst brand for baselayers? im also down for used stuff so any recs on good 15+k hardshell that i could find cheapist would be dope.


Well, I only have icebreaker for base layers, I like them cause it's the one I get for the cheapest.

For an hardshell, well, looking on the deal you have on the Lt, that mean you'll pay like 240 for the sphene which really worth it. After that, I don't think you'll get anything better then that even used since most people pay full price for them in the first place
Nov 23 2016 10:47PM
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freeballer
Posts: 733 - Karma: 1,024
I have one set up for almost all days in Colorado, whether that is touring, quick hikes out of bounds, or lift accessed skiing. You want nice baselayers for top and bottom that is super breathable, such as merino wool if you can afford it, or synthetic if you don't mind it being a little smelly and having to wash it a lot.

Mid layer is typically a Patagonia Nano Air, but I have a really old Patagonia fleece that's a bit warmer, but less breathable when you aren't hiking or building up sweat.

Then I like a 3 layer Gore-Tex Pro shell. Right now, that's a Patagonia Untracked jacket and some Under Armor Gore Tex bibs.

I find with this set up, I'm pretty comfortable on warmer days between 30-35 degrees, and all the way down to 10 - 15 degrees. The only difference is I might throw on a crappy Costco down vest on top of the Nano Air under my jacket if it's single digits out there.
Nov 27 2016 1:52PM
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Iliveinutah
Posts: 1250 - Karma: 5,147
word i think ima get a fleece top and bottom some mernio base layers and a down jacket and a nice shell the issue is i need to find said shell at a decent price hopefully Christmas is good this year
Nov 27 2016 1:57PM
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