FUCK!

scandy101What are people so scared of? I'm not a fan of Trump either but im at least open minded about it, I hope he does a good job, and from his past experience I think he's more than capable of doing a good job.

Seriously, can someone please give me some things people are scared of him doing and why?

so far i've just heard liberal college kids freaking out making ridiculous claims about all the racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. things he's going to do etc. etc.

apart from the guy having no filter, i have no reason to think he's going to bring racism and sexism into his policies. Is a no filter, offensive person like him just that foreign to college kids that they take the random BS coming out of his mouth seriously? I know a lot of people like that who arent afraid to offend but are nowhere near racist or sexist like the ultra liberal would like to label them.

I'm legitimately concerned for the environment

jpmoffatThe VP isn't a good choice.

But honestly, I'm just watching and waiting to see what happens next. I hope everyone feeling down tonight can step back a little bit and just look forward to making the best of this situation.

Yes, it's most likely that Pence will be making all of the decisions like Cheney did with Bush. Say good by to the environment.

scandy101What are people so scared of? I'm not a fan of Trump either but im at least open minded about it, I hope he does a good job, and from his past experience I think he's more than capable of doing a good job.

Seriously, can someone please give me some things people are scared of him doing and why?

so far i've just heard liberal college kids freaking out making ridiculous claims about all the racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. things he's going to do etc. etc.

apart from the guy having no filter, i have no reason to think he's going to bring racism and sexism into his policies. Is a no filter, offensive person like him just that foreign to college kids that they take the random BS coming out of his mouth seriously? I know a lot of people like that who arent afraid to offend but are nowhere near racist or sexist like the ultra liberal would like to label them.

You seemingly think that him spewing off anything that comes to his mind is OK. It is not, and not because its not politically correct, but because it makes him unpredictable. People like stability, and Trump, at least during his campaign, showed that he is anything but. Hell, they had to take away his twitter privileges.


But to why liberals are scared:

1. Conservative Supreme Court:
-Roe v. Wade and subsequent abortion rulings may be overturned
-Obergefel vs. Hodges may be overturned, returning gay marriage rights to states
-Cases surrounding immigration rights
-Cases surrounding voting rights

2. Restrictive Immigration Policies
-Banning Muslims from coming into this country->Not all Muslim's are dangerous. Simple fact. Vetting may need to be strengthened or reexamined, but selectively stopping a group of people from coming into this country is wrong.
-Removal of illegal immigrants->Two sides to this, the moral/ethical and the economic side. Morally, removing all the illegal immigrants is wrong as you may be separating families. Economically, you are depleting the workforce by absurd numbers during an era where the workforce is already declining as the boomers age out.

3. Economic Policies
-Tariffs are bad. They invoke trade wars and the people that get hurt during trade wars are the common folk, the blue-collared and middle class. History has shown the effects of bad tariffs (Smoot-Hawley Act)
-Simplifying the tax code->He wants to increase spending on our infrastructure (great), but he believes he will offset these costs by simplifying both the private and corporate tax codes. Every analysis has shown that this will not offset it, further increasing the federal debt levels.
-Manufacturing will not return to this country and restore the jobs that were lost. Automation is king.

Then there are obviously the moral qualms surrounding his history with African Americans, women, and other groups.

.MASSHOLE.Short term fluctuations are due to uncertainty. They'll rebound eventually. That being said, because he's a populist without a set platform, this uncertainty could come in surges.

The real question, like Brexit, is what will the long-term reprocussions be of his proposed economic plans?

It it doesn't look good since he can do whatever he wants given he controls every branch.

I'm sorry but the president has little power when it comes to the regulation of banks and the federal reserve. Trump won't fuck everything up, the gears of the machine are still well in place.

I think now is the perfect time for Matt Stone and Trey Parker to come out with Team America 2. Trump would be a hilarious marionette!!

brotoI'm legitimately concerned for the environment

Why? not saying you're wrong, i want to know what you think he'll do that will hurt the environment.

I know he said he doesnt believe in climate change, but if all that means is he's not going to, for example, create more BS regulations that car manufacturers have to follow, that could have a positive effect on what they can put towards coming up with and using new fuel efficient methods. rather than all that effort and money going to adhering to the reg's. (i work in the auto industry and see this happening)

fuckmekevinI'm sorry but the president has little power when it comes to the regulation of banks and the federal reserve. Trump won't fuck everything up, the gears of the machine are still well in place.

He has some, he can nominate the next Chair. And they may retain control of monetary policy, but he controls fiscal policy, which, when used incorrectly, can be devastating.

And the gears and steering wheel are now in the hands of a GOP that has shown itself to be incompetent.

scandy101Why? not saying you're wrong, i want to know what you think he'll do that will hurt the environment.

I know he said he doesnt believe in climate change, but if all that means is he's not going to, for example, create more BS regulations that car manufacturers have to follow, that could have a positive effect on what they can put towards coming up with and using new fuel efficient methods. rather than all that effort and money going to adhering to the reg's. (i work in the auto industry and see this happening)

He said he is cutting back on a ton of regulations in oil, gas, and coal industries.

.MASSHOLE.You seemingly think that him spewing off anything that comes to his mind is OK. It is not, and not because its not politically correct, but because it makes him unpredictable. People like stability, and Trump, at least during his campaign, showed that he is anything but. Hell, they had to take away his twitter privileges.


But to why liberals are scared:

1. Conservative Supreme Court:
-Roe v. Wade and subsequent abortion rulings may be overturned
-Obergefel vs. Hodges may be overturned, returning gay marriage rights to states
-Cases surrounding immigration rights
-Cases surrounding voting rights

2. Restrictive Immigration Policies
-Banning Muslims from coming into this country->Not all Muslim's are dangerous. Simple fact. Vetting may need to be strengthened or reexamined, but selectively stopping a group of people from coming into this country is wrong.
-Removal of illegal immigrants->Two sides to this, the moral/ethical and the economic side. Morally, removing all the illegal immigrants is wrong as you may be separating families. Economically, you are depleting the workforce by absurd numbers during an era where the workforce is already declining as the boomers age out.

3. Economic Policies
-Tariffs are bad. They invoke trade wars and the people that get hurt during trade wars are the common folk, the blue-collared and middle class. History has shown the effects of bad tariffs (Smoot-Hawley Act)
-Simplifying the tax code->He wants to increase spending on our infrastructure (great), but he believes he will offset these costs by simplifying both the private and corporate tax codes. Every analysis has shown that this will not offset it, further increasing the federal debt levels.
-Manufacturing will not return to this country and restore the jobs that were lost. Automation is king.

Then there are obviously the moral qualms surrounding his history with African Americans, women, and other groups.

Thanks! thats actually helpful. I disagree that a lot of those points will be bad but at least lets me know where people are coming from. somehow i feel the typical college kid liberal i'm hearing on a daily basis has thought this much about it.

scandy101What are people so scared of? I'm not a fan of Trump either but im at least open minded about it, I hope he does a good job, and from his past experience I think he's more than capable of doing a good job.

Seriously, can someone please give me some things people are scared of him doing and why?

so far i've just heard liberal college kids freaking out making ridiculous claims about all the racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. things he's going to do etc. etc.

apart from the guy having no filter, i have no reason to think he's going to bring racism and sexism into his policies. Is a no filter, offensive person like him just that foreign to college kids that they take the random BS coming out of his mouth seriously? I know a lot of people like that who arent afraid to offend but are nowhere near racist or sexist like the ultra liberal would like to label them.

Examples of introducing sexism:
Not pursuing equal pay for equal work ammendments (which he has not endorsed)
Making sex/gender a non protected class in discrimination law (in certain cases)
Overturning Roe v Wade and further legislating womens health choices
Loosening current statutes on sexual assault (indicated by his support of sexual assault)

Racist Policies:
Not doing anything to curtail police violence against people of color
Rescinding the dream act (which benefits mostly people of color)
Forcefully deporting all illegal immigrants (the majority of which are not white)
Banning Muslims from entering the country
Building a wall between US and Mexico

Homophobic Policies:
Not doing anything to rescind police and other violence against the LGBTQ community
Rescinding domestic partnership rights
Making sexual orientation not a protected class in certain contexts (not all)
Taking away the right for non straight people to marry
Supporting bills like SB-2 which prevent trans people from living their lives

These are all policies that inherently effect the rights of women, people of color, religious minorities and the LGBTQ community. I personally belong to two of those groups.

While I believe that not even a conservative court or even the rest of the now republican lead government would let all of this slide some of it is sure feasible. The fact that many of these things are at all on the table again is a bit worrisome to me. As some of these policies could directly take away rights that I currently hold.

That is all.

scandy101Why? not saying you're wrong, i want to know what you think he'll do that will hurt the environment.

I know he said he doesnt believe in climate change, but if all that means is he's not going to, for example, create more BS regulations that car manufacturers have to follow, that could have a positive effect on what they can put towards coming up with and using new fuel efficient methods. rather than all that effort and money going to adhering to the reg's. (i work in the auto industry and see this happening)

Look at the bills Pence has signed off on and proposed. Of course, Hilary would have done the same. The difference between Republicans and Democrats is Republicans deny climate change and let you know, Democrats say all the things environmentalists want to hear but do the exact opposite. Chevron, Texaco, Unocol 76 are still going to fuck up the environment and not the Dems or the Republicans are going to do anything about it. They'll sign a bill for surveillance of emissions but they won't actually enforce it, at least that's what the state department did.

.MASSHOLE.He has some, he can nominate the next Chair. And they may retain control of monetary policy, but he controls fiscal policy, which, when used incorrectly, can be devastating.

And the gears and steering wheel are now in the hands of a GOP that has shown itself to be incompetent.

Very true but presidents are malleable and easily swayed. His intelligence briefing today probably made him shit his pants.

scandy101Thanks! thats actually helpful. I disagree that a lot of those points will be bad but at least lets me know where people are coming from. somehow i feel the typical college kid liberal i'm hearing on a daily basis has thought this much about it.

No problem.

There are also a host of environmental concerns people have but I have paid less attention to those. Basically he denies climate change which is a big no-no to most people.

People don't have to agree with the concerns, but to dismiss them is both unfair and divisive as a whole. If this country is to become united, people need to be willing to listen and accept other people's opinions. It is ultimately why Trump/Sanders were so successful with the blue-collared man.

fuckmekevinVery true but presidents are malleable and easily swayed. His intelligence briefing today probably made him shit his pants.

Most are, but I would say Trump has shown that his ego drives many of his decisions. I hope I am wrong here, but his history is alarming.


It also scares me that a business man who still holds a big interest in his own company's performance is controlling the keys to such an integral part to the global economy.

.MASSHOLE.He said he is cutting back on a ton of regulations in oil, gas, and coal industries.

ok, regulations but what regulations? are these regulations necessary? perhaps they do more harm than good? the two industries i've worked in, healthcare and automotive, I've seen what kind of regulations a business has to adhere to and more often than not they do more harm than good.
In my little healthcare experience regs brought prices up and killed progressive more effective ideas.
in automotive, reg's meant to make manufacturers more efficient in the end made them more inefficient (while now being able to claim "we make more efficient vehicles" its a long story how they can do it..) because we just had to find a way to get around the poorly thought out and BS reg that would have killed the company if we adhered to it.

.MASSHOLE.Most are, but I would say Trump has shown that his ego drives many of his decisions. I hope I am wrong here, but his history is alarming.


It also scares me that a business man who still holds a big interest in his own company's performance is controlling the keys to such an integral part to the global economy.

Yeah, I think with respect to his presidency he will renounce his ego and make logical decisions. That's just wishful thinking.

What I'm concerned about is his stance on the Ukrainian/Syrian natural gas proxy wars w/ Russia, Iran, China, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. The funds that were funneled from the house of saud and qatar into the Clinton foundation illustrate their desire for Hilary's presidency.

She would have most likely taken control of the region by force and prevented the Nord stream 2nd pipeline that Biden's son is trying hard to prevent. The pipeline would allow 80% of natural gas flow from Russia. In this case, Ukraine is all but gone in the proxy war as they probably will not be a key transit country anymore. Her administration would have ousted Assad, prevented the Syrian, Iraq, Iran pipeline, put in place the Qatar-Turkey pipeline and promoted LNG to Europe.

Trump, I have no clue.

scandy101ok, regulations but what regulations? are these regulations necessary? perhaps they do more harm than good? the two industries i've worked in, healthcare and automotive, I've seen what kind of regulations a business has to adhere to and more often than not they do more harm than good.
In my little healthcare experience regs brought prices up and killed progressive more effective ideas.
in automotive, reg's meant to make manufacturers more efficient in the end made them more inefficient (while now being able to claim "we make more efficient vehicles" its a long story how they can do it..) because we just had to find a way to get around the poorly thought out and BS reg that would have killed the company if we adhered to it.

Cut the EPA, scrap the Clean Power Plan, repeal federal spending on clean energy, pull out of Paris Climate Deal (which even China agreed to), open federal lands to oil and gas drilling and coal mining, and any other thing he deems needless.

Healthcare regulations need to be strict (except IP laws :|). I can explain why more in depth as I work in the industry, but the FDA has an extremely important role as you may now.

.MASSHOLE.Most are, but I would say Trump has shown that his ego drives many of his decisions. I hope I am wrong here, but his history is alarming.


It also scares me that a business man who still holds a big interest in his own company's performance is controlling the keys to such an integral part to the global economy.

Can you please just stop? Dude take a week off for fucks sake. Give ns a break from you for a few days.

LNG and deregulating oil and natural gas private sectors could help the US economy but LNG is of zero use if the 2nd nord stream pipeline takes a full hold, this will bypass traditional transit countries that LNG and the US depend on. Basically, it is all business and it is said that this continued dependence would go against the European Energy Union’s goal of diversity of energy suppliers to alleviate national security concerns. I think that's just a backseat excuse for when it comes to who is losing the proxy war.

.MASSHOLE.Cut the EPA, scrap the Clean Power Plan, repeal federal spending on clean energy, pull out of Paris Climate Deal (which even China agreed to), open federal lands to oil and gas drilling and coal mining, and any other thing he deems needless.

Healthcare regulations need to be strict (except IP laws :|). I can explain why more in depth as I work in the industry, but the FDA has an extremely important role as you may now.

I agree these are all things that one should be concerned about, the former state department has done much of the same though in regards to deregulating the gas sector. It's important to understand the geopolitics when it comes to natural gas, which is what most of these proxy wars are about.

Don't forget pence literally thinks you can electrecute gay ppl into being straight

foolmetwiceDon't forget pence literally thinks you can electrecute gay ppl into being straight

Your Internally oppressing me!!!

fuckmekevinYour Internally oppressing me!!!

But actually oppressing me. Thanks bro!

NoSkillsCrewExamples of introducing sexism:
Not pursuing equal pay for equal work ammendments (which he has not endorsed)
Making sex/gender a non protected class in discrimination law (in certain cases)
Overturning Roe v Wade and further legislating womens health choices
Loosening current statutes on sexual assault (indicated by his support of sexual assault)

Racist Policies:
Not doing anything to curtail police violence against people of color
Rescinding the dream act (which benefits mostly people of color)
Forcefully deporting all illegal immigrants (the majority of which are not white)
Banning Muslims from entering the country
Building a wall between US and Mexico

Homophobic Policies:
Not doing anything to rescind police and other violence against the LGBTQ community
Rescinding domestic partnership rights
Making sexual orientation not a protected class in certain contexts (not all)
Taking away the right for non straight people to marry
Supporting bills like SB-2 which prevent trans people from living their lives

These are all policies that inherently effect the rights of women, people of color, religious minorities and the LGBTQ community. I personally belong to two of those groups.

While I believe that not even a conservative court or even the rest of the now republican lead government would let all of this slide some of it is sure feasible. The fact that many of these things are at all on the table again is a bit worrisome to me. As some of these policies could directly take away rights that I currently hold.

That is all.

"Not pursuing equal pay for equal work ammendments (which he has not endorsed)
Making sex/gender a non protected class in discrimination law (in certain cases)
Overturning Roe v Wade and further legislating womens health choices"

-Ive seen what people expect for equal pay for equal work, and what they're expecting isnt equal. its paying the same for the same job but not accounting for hours and how good they are at their job. Unless he's really saying a woman can do a job 100% as effective as a man and at the same earn less. i dont see it as being sexist, or wrong.
-discrimination law, depending on what you're talking about, can hurt an individuals rights. again dont see that as being sexist, i've seen how some of these laws apply in real life in a company and they do nothing to promote equality, just make hiring/firing based on actual performance a pain in the ass.
-Roe v Wade, to those that are against abortion, they are saying that the mother shouldnt be able to end a human life. their thinking isnt "restrict what women can do with their bodies" their not coming at it from a sexist perspective, they're saying murder is wrong. THESE ARENT MY OPINIONS, necessarily, but just trying to point out that its not a sexist motive.

As far as homophopic policies, i honestly havent been able to find much on what trump actually wants to do in that regard. so not going to comment on that.

Anyway, I see a lot of the things people bash him for as being a difference in opinion on what would create equality vs. hurt it. I personally think trying to enforce and regulate the equality out of people doesnt work. singling out certain groups and races, labeling them, giving them special protections, rights, etc.. to me breeds more racism and discrimination. its a difference of opinion on what works.

Him wanting to crack down on illegal immigration is not racist. its enforcing a law, they're here illegally and typically you dont let people do illegal things. its not a race thing.

his stance on muslim immigration though, i dont necessarily agree with. i get his point, but you cant single out a religion and say you cant come in. but as far as i can tell he's just saying they have to go through the normal process of becoming a US citizen. Might be wrong though?

McNocheCan you please just stop? Dude take a week off for fucks sake. Give ns a break from you for a few days.

Sorry my job involves political actions and my hobbies involve skiing. I'll make sure I change that just for you.

fuckmekevinI agree these are all things that one should be concerned about, the former state department has done much of the same though in regards to deregulating the gas sector. It's important to understand the geopolitics when it comes to natural gas, which is what most of these proxy wars are about.

True, but the stone is already rolling in the geopolitical arena as is the deregulation in the domestic natural gas industry. We can't stop it yet, but we sure as hell don't want to increase the deregulation.

scandy101What are people so scared of? I'm not a fan of Trump either but im at least open minded about it, I hope he does a good job, and from his past experience I think he's more than capable of doing a good job.

Seriously, can someone please give me some things people are scared of him doing and why?

so far i've just heard liberal college kids freaking out making ridiculous claims about all the racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. things he's going to do etc. etc.

apart from the guy having no filter, i have no reason to think he's going to bring racism and sexism into his policies. Is a no filter, offensive person like him just that foreign to college kids that they take the random BS coming out of his mouth seriously? I know a lot of people like that who arent afraid to offend but are nowhere near racist or sexist like the ultra liberal would like to label them.

He's sending the death eaters from azkaban to round up all the minorities, and gays, didn't you hear?

lol good luck.

so the retards officially outweigh everyone else. this is gonna be good.

and the canadian immigration site didn't crash. we shut it down. no you can't crash on our couch america.

Positives:

At least we're not in a war with Russia

"-Ive seen what people expect for equal pay for equal work, and what they're expecting isnt equal. its paying the same for the same job but not accounting for hours and how good they are at their job. Unless he's really saying a woman can do a job 100% as effective as a man and at the same earn less. i dont see it as being sexist, or wrong."

- Equal pay from my perspective deals with mostly lower wage jobs. In my personal experience (mostly in the ski industry actually) I have seen very capable women be paid less for doing identical jobs as men. This can take many forms. The boys getting preferential treatment in scheduling, not allowing women to perform tasks that net more money (like tuning) just because they are women not because they are less qualified. This is my specific example. I can't speak to the more nuanced higher paying job stuff.


"-discrimination law, depending on what you're talking about, can hurt an individuals rights. again dont see that as being sexist, i've seen how some of these laws apply in real life in a company and they do nothing to promote equality, just make hiring/firing based on actual performance a pain in the ass."

-When you deny people things solely based on sex (which includes being transgender or gender neutral) such as housing, jobs, health care, fair employment etc. That should not be legal. I have been fired from jobs because of negative perception of my sexuality in a highly mormon environment (what up Utah). I have a number of transgender friends who have lost housing, jobs, health care benefits due to their transitioning. I personally do not think that should be legal and is a direct impairment to these peoples rights.

"-Roe v Wade, to those that are against abortion, they are saying that the mother shouldnt be able to end a human life. their thinking isnt "restrict what women can do with their bodies" their not coming at it from a sexist perspective, they're saying murder is wrong. THESE ARENT MY OPINIONS, necessarily, but just trying to point out that its not a sexist motive."

-Be it your religion / morals or otherwise you can not detach the consequence from the intent. By telling a woman they can not get a medical service that they desire you are restricting what they can do to their bodies. Government has no place telling us what we can do to our bodies. Anti abortion laws only directly affect females. Any law that targets one group is discriminatory to me. In this case it is targeted at women.

"As far as homophopic policies, i honestly havent been able to find much on what trump actually wants to do in that regard. so not going to comment on that."

-He has directly stated that he plans on denying gay couples the right to marry and adopt children. That very specifically effects my rights.

"Anyway, I see a lot of the things people bash him for as being a difference in opinion on what would create equality vs. hurt it. I personally think trying to enforce and regulate the equality out of people doesnt work. singling out certain groups and races, labeling them, giving them special protections, rights, etc.. to me breeds more racism and discrimination. its a difference of opinion on what works."

- I don't agree that it is a difference of opinion. By taking away a womans right to chose an abortion, by taking away my right to marry, and to remove protections of discrimination against me for my sexual orientation takes away rights that I currently have and makes me less equal than straight people. I have personally felt much less discrimination and have been directly protected by the fair housing act (which prevents people from denying me housing based on my orientation), hate crime legislation ( I have been assaulted because of my orientation), and other things that I am suer I am not aware of. These laws protect me and in my experience have not increased homophobia and discrimination that I experience.

Him wanting to crack down on illegal immigration is not racist. its enforcing a law, they're here illegally and typically you dont let people do illegal things. its not a race thing.

- My opinion differs. I believe that the policy disproportionally targets people of color at this point. I stress that is my opinion I respect that it is enforcing already existing law. I just don't agree with that law personally.

"his stance on muslim immigration though, i dont necessarily agree with. i get his point, but you cant single out a religion and say you cant come in. but as far as i can tell he's just saying they have to go through the normal process of becoming a US citizen. Might be wrong though?"

-I'm with you on my confusion on his stance on this also. And I totally agree that singling out a religion for any reason is wrong.

Thanks for engaging in a civil conversation! I enjoy exchanging viewpoints.

Woo NS.

fuckmekevinYour Internally oppressing me!!!

Wut

scandy101What are people so scared of? I'm not a fan of Trump either but im at least open minded about it, I hope he does a good job, and from his past experience I think he's more than capable of doing a good job.

Seriously, can someone please give me some things people are scared of him doing and why?

so far i've just heard liberal college kids freaking out making ridiculous claims about all the racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. things he's going to do etc. etc.

apart from the guy having no filter, i have no reason to think he's going to bring racism and sexism into his policies. Is a no filter, offensive person like him just that foreign to college kids that they take the random BS coming out of his mouth seriously? I know a lot of people like that who arent afraid to offend but are nowhere near racist or sexist like the ultra liberal would like to label them.

He will likely be replacing three supreme court justices during his term
Fucking 3. Let that sink in.

He says he plans to appoint very conservative judges.

Roe v wade, overturned.
Gay marriage, not legal anymore.
Affirmative action, gone.
Etc. Etc. Etc.


THIS is the most realistic "big deal".

Josh__PeckThe triggered liberal tears in this thread are delicious

why do you insist on making yourself look like a complete asshat?

I'm just bummed we wont get a taco truck on every corner.

erikKfuckin pussy

And here we have your average trump supporter. When confronted with facts he does not like, his primary defense mechanism is the classic petty insult. Note that the insult is not required to make any sense, as evidenced in this example. Trump supporters aren't known for their intellectual capabilities, and this certainly lives up to that standard.

NoSkillsCrew"-Ive seen what people expect for equal pay for equal work, and what they're expecting isnt equal. its paying the same for the same job but not accounting for hours and how good they are at their job. Unless he's really saying a woman can do a job 100% as effective as a man and at the same earn less. i dont see it as being sexist, or wrong."

- Equal pay from my perspective deals with mostly lower wage jobs. In my personal experience (mostly in the ski industry actually) I have seen very capable women be paid less for doing identical jobs as men. This can take many forms. The boys getting preferential treatment in scheduling, not allowing women to perform tasks that net more money (like tuning) just because they are women not because they are less qualified. This is my specific example. I can't speak to the more nuanced higher paying job stuff.


"-discrimination law, depending on what you're talking about, can hurt an individuals rights. again dont see that as being sexist, i've seen how some of these laws apply in real life in a company and they do nothing to promote equality, just make hiring/firing based on actual performance a pain in the ass."

-When you deny people things solely based on sex (which includes being transgender or gender neutral) such as housing, jobs, health care, fair employment etc. That should not be legal. I have been fired from jobs because of negative perception of my sexuality in a highly mormon environment (what up Utah). I have a number of transgender friends who have lost housing, jobs, health care benefits due to their transitioning. I personally do not think that should be legal and is a direct impairment to these peoples rights.

"-Roe v Wade, to those that are against abortion, they are saying that the mother shouldnt be able to end a human life. their thinking isnt "restrict what women can do with their bodies" their not coming at it from a sexist perspective, they're saying murder is wrong. THESE ARENT MY OPINIONS, necessarily, but just trying to point out that its not a sexist motive."

-Be it your religion / morals or otherwise you can not detach the consequence from the intent. By telling a woman they can not get a medical service that they desire you are restricting what they can do to their bodies. Government has no place telling us what we can do to our bodies. Anti abortion laws only directly affect females. Any law that targets one group is discriminatory to me. In this case it is targeted at women.

"As far as homophopic policies, i honestly havent been able to find much on what trump actually wants to do in that regard. so not going to comment on that."

-He has directly stated that he plans on denying gay couples the right to marry and adopt children. That very specifically effects my rights.

"Anyway, I see a lot of the things people bash him for as being a difference in opinion on what would create equality vs. hurt it. I personally think trying to enforce and regulate the equality out of people doesnt work. singling out certain groups and races, labeling them, giving them special protections, rights, etc.. to me breeds more racism and discrimination. its a difference of opinion on what works."

- I don't agree that it is a difference of opinion. By taking away a womans right to chose an abortion, by taking away my right to marry, and to remove protections of discrimination against me for my sexual orientation takes away rights that I currently have and makes me less equal than straight people. I have personally felt much less discrimination and have been directly protected by the fair housing act (which prevents people from denying me housing based on my orientation), hate crime legislation ( I have been assaulted because of my orientation), and other things that I am suer I am not aware of. These laws protect me and in my experience have not increased homophobia and discrimination that I experience.

Him wanting to crack down on illegal immigration is not racist. its enforcing a law, they're here illegally and typically you dont let people do illegal things. its not a race thing.

- My opinion differs. I believe that the policy disproportionally targets people of color at this point. I stress that is my opinion I respect that it is enforcing already existing law. I just don't agree with that law personally.

"his stance on muslim immigration though, i dont necessarily agree with. i get his point, but you cant single out a religion and say you cant come in. but as far as i can tell he's just saying they have to go through the normal process of becoming a US citizen. Might be wrong though?"

-I'm with you on my confusion on his stance on this also. And I totally agree that singling out a religion for any reason is wrong.

Thanks for engaging in a civil conversation! I enjoy exchanging viewpoints.

Woo NS.

-In regards to equal pay and discrimination law. I agree with and like the intent, but when it comes to actually being enforced, from my experience, they take away more rights than they might protect. at least in my experience.
Example: At a previous job, I was involved with the process of my manager trying to get a woman fired. She happened to be black, but she was a terrible employee, almost weekly she would do something that would warrant being fired, had she been white. but because of regulations "protecting" her from "racism" it was an almost year long process to get her fired(something that should have taken a day or two), she knew she couldnt be touched, so she continued to not show up, show up late etc.. we had to be so careful with how we went about firing her, and in the end still had to pay her unemployment. if she mentioned the word "racist" that company could have been fucked.
I think that breeds racism, everyone in the company resented her, her being black became the reason she was able to do a shitty job and everyone else had to take up the slack. it turned a non issue into a huge race issue.

-Im saying these kind of things have two sides, yes the intent is good, but when you take away somebodys freedom to hire/fire who they want and pay what they want, there is a negative repercussion regardless of how innocent the intent was.

-Abortion, again, its purely a difference in how people perceive it. a woman may say that fetus is part of their body and they can do what they want with it, ok, valid point... somebody else sees that fetus as a human life that they are killing, again, valid point. to them its not a matter of saying you cant do what you want with your body, its saying you cant kill someone, its not a sexist thought. I dealt with a friend who's girlfriend got an abortion and it completely ruined him, he saw it as she was killing their child, which as you can imagine, would fuck you up. its been over a year now and he's still depressed as hell. regardless of your stance, you have to see that to some people, thats killing their human child. they're not being "sexist" and anti woman. I'm still very undecided on this issue, I almost dont think theres a right answer.

-Things like immigration definitely open up the opportunity for racism to become a major factor, which is unfortunate. but immigration is still a giant problem that needs to be controlled, and with it being extremely out of control now, I dont see us regaining control without race issues popping up. I think the best we can do is keep race out of any immigration related law/regulation, but when it comes to enforcing those laws, race will be a factor. I dont know how you can control that.

-I think the rest we somewhat agree on? i'm 10000% with you in that im against laws restricting gay marriage, religious practices (within reason) basically anything singling out anyone and saying you cant do X. but maybe where we differ is that I dont think you can single out any one of those groups and give them any special protections or privileges. both sides need to deal with the inconveniences if they want actual equality. IMO thats the best way to promote REAL equality. I think every experience I've had with a regulation protecting a certain race, sex, etc. has resulted in creating more resent.
my stance is basically, go ahead and be a gay, cross dressing, crazy fetish, pink short jorts and mesh shirt wearing, flamboyant weirdo. nobody can stop you, but if somebody doesnt want to hire you because you're all those things and that doesnt help his company, then tough. both sides need understand each other.

This is where I hope Trump will surprise people, I dont take him as being a strong believer in any way when it comes to anything race, gender, or sexual orientation. he's extremely insensitive about it, and says things that pisses people off without realizing it. but I dont think he has strong beliefs either way. I'm hoping he said some of those things about gay marriage, etc. just to get the republican approval he needed. I dont feel like it would take much for him allow the shit republicans are so hell bent on restricting.

McNocheThat's cool how you've met the rest of the world and have gathered all their opinions on the US presidency.

shut your fucking mouth, you look stupid.

haha nice one guy

californiagrownHe will likely be replacing three supreme court justices during his term
Fucking 3. Let that sink in.

He says he plans to appoint very conservative judges.

Roe v wade, overturned.
Gay marriage, not legal anymore.
Affirmative action, gone.
Etc. Etc. Etc.


THIS is the most realistic "big deal".

roe v wade im pretty partial about, and dont see it a sexist issue. (see above)

Gay marriage, all i can really find is him saying it should be a state decision. which as a pro gay marriage person, i have to say i'm for. everything else seems to be his typical loud mouth blurting out random shit.

affermative action- I agree with in intent but when put to practice I think it creates the opposite effect.

So apart from gay marriage, which i'm still uncertain of his intent, i cant see his motives really being sexist/racist, just an approach liberals dont agree with.

special-Jhaha nice one guy

Ha thanks. I made myself laugh

NikolausAnd here we have your average trump supporter. When confronted with facts he does not like, his primary defense mechanism is the classic petty insult. Note that the insult is not required to make any sense, as evidenced in this example. Trump supporters aren't known for their intellectual capabilities, and this certainly lives up to that standard.

Fuckin pussy

scandy101roe v wade im pretty partial about, and dont see it a sexist issue. (see above)

Gay marriage, all i can really find is him saying it should be a state decision. which as a pro gay marriage person, i have to say i'm for. everything else seems to be his typical loud mouth blurting out random shit.

affermative action- I agree with in intent but when put to practice I think it creates the opposite effect.

So apart from gay marriage, which i'm still uncertain of his intent, i cant see his motives really being sexist/racist, just an approach liberals dont agree with.

You are very obviously not for gay marriage if you are totally fine having it banned in many states, and gays persecuted by businesses claiming religious reasons.

You think it's totally fine to ban abortions? Who fucking cares what his motive is for doing so... who brought that shit up? I certainly didn't. A president is 4 years. A supreme Court justice is for life- neo conservative majority on the court for decades to come terrifies me.

He wants to shit down military bases around the world, and cut ties with long time allies. That's kosher to you?

Please, for the love of god, describe yoe how the Mexican wall he describes can be built for less than trillions of dollars, and how he will get Mexico to pay for it.

californiagrownYou are very obviously not for gay marriage if you are totally fine having it banned in many states, and gays persecuted by businesses claiming religious reasons.

You think it's totally fine to ban abortions? Who fucking cares what his motive is for doing so... who brought that shit up? I certainly didn't. A president is 4 years. A supreme Court justice is for life- neo conservative majority on the court for decades to come terrifies me.

He wants to shit down military bases around the world, and cut ties with long time allies. That's kosher to you?

Please, for the love of god, describe yoe how the Mexican wall he describes can be built for less than trillions of dollars, and how he will get Mexico to pay for it.

I'm for the most freedom possible, and IMO leaving issues up to the state is more the way towards that. I am 100% for gay marriage, but also 100% for a private business serving and hiring who they want. If a business doesnt want serve someone kitted out in KKK clothing, they should be able to deny them service. just like they should be able to deny service to anyone else they disagree with. sucks its inconvenient. but I guess ultimate freedom doesnt mean ultimate comfort and convenience, and it sure as hell doesnt mean everyones gonna be your friend.

I dont think its totally fine to ban abortions, I think considering it, and looking at the issue is fine. its obviously a huge fucking deal and needs to be looked at.

I think you're assuming i'm a trump supporter, I'm not, I'm very anti Hillary and voted for Johnson.

I'm just confused how people are so insanely scared right now. concerned, i understand. but i hear people that literally sound scared for their lives. Sounds like the media did its job i guess and scared the absolute shit out of everyone. gosh dang.

The Democratic Party just learned not to mess with the millennials Bernie. I am hoping Trump is baby boomers last stand in presidential elections.

scandy101I'm for the most freedom possible, and IMO leaving issues up to the state is more the way towards that. I am 100% for gay marriage, but also 100% for a private business serving and hiring who they want. If a business doesnt want serve someone kitted out in KKK clothing, they should be able to deny them service. just like they should be able to deny service to anyone else they disagree with. sucks its inconvenient. but I guess ultimate freedom doesnt mean ultimate comfort and convenience, and it sure as hell doesnt mean everyones gonna be your friend.

I dont think its totally fine to ban abortions, I think considering it, and looking at the issue is fine. its obviously a huge fucking deal and needs to be looked at.

I think you're assuming i'm a trump supporter, I'm not, I'm very anti Hillary and voted for Johnson.

I'm just confused how people are so insanely scared right now. concerned, i understand. but i hear people that literally sound scared for their lives. Sounds like the media did its job i guess and scared the absolute shit out of everyone. gosh dang.

Being allowed to wear KKK garb =/= LGBTQ rights. One you can change, one you can't.

Leaving it up to states opens up a litany of issues involving insurance, last rights, etc. if Obergefell vs. Hodges is overturned. For example, lets say a gay couple gets married in VT, but moves down to AL or TX or any other southern conservative state because of work. That state does not recognize a gay couple as being a legal partnership. Well, if it is not a legal partnership that couple misses out on tax benefits, insurance benefits, and countless other benefits that are provided to traditional couples.

Is that fair?

scandy101I'm for the most freedom possible, and IMO leaving issues up to the state is more the way towards that. I am 100% for gay marriage, but also 100% for a private business serving and hiring who they want. If a business doesnt want serve someone kitted out in KKK clothing, they should be able to deny them service. just like they should be able to deny service to anyone else they disagree with. sucks its inconvenient. but I guess ultimate freedom doesnt mean ultimate comfort and convenience, and it sure as hell doesnt mean everyones gonna be your friend.

I dont think its totally fine to ban abortions, I think considering it, and looking at the issue is fine. its obviously a huge fucking deal and needs to be looked at.

I think you're assuming i'm a trump supporter, I'm not, I'm very anti Hillary and voted for Johnson.

I'm just confused how people are so insanely scared right now. concerned, i understand. but i hear people that literally sound scared for their lives. Sounds like the media did its job i guess and scared the absolute shit out of everyone. gosh dang.

So you'd be cool letting the south have Jim Crow laws. Because, states rights. Yeah, you would be a piece of shit in that case. How can you think it is at all acceptable for our country to treat gays as lesser humans? Oh, states rights. Got it.

Trump literally said he will appoint justices who will ban abortions. In a debate. Everyone heard it. There will be no considering or discussion.

He wants to cut ties with longtime allies, abandon many foreign bases, and stop funding defense of our strategic economic and military partners around the world. That makes you warm and fuzzy? He said he knows more than the military leadership.

My old coworker is terrified. She has cancer, hasn't been able to work while fighting it and relies on obsmacare. When trump gets rid of it and opens up the insurance marketplace as he has said, she will be denied care for her preexisting condition, and won't be able to afford treatment and will die. This is not isolated.

.MASSHOLE.Being allowed to wear KKK garb =/= LGBTQ rights. One you can change, one you can't.

Leaving it up to states opens up a litany of issues involving insurance, last rights, etc. if Obergefell vs. Hodges is overturned. For example, lets say a gay couple gets married in VT, but moves down to AL or TX or any other southern conservative state because of work. That state does not recognize a gay couple as being a legal partnership. Well, if it is not a legal partnership that couple misses out on tax benefits, insurance benefits, and countless other benefits that are provided to traditional couples.

Is that fair?

I'm saying the government has no place in picking and choosing who you are allowed to deny service to. A racist should have the same rights as a homosexual, its not up the government to decide who's beliefs, lifestyle, sexual orientation, etc. is more deserving of privileges over another.. if you're allowed to deny it to anyone, you should be allowed to deny it to everyone. I know its not "feel good" but thats equality. I dont understand how people can say their so pro equality but then dont want to deal with any of the inconveniences.

and yes I agree thats a shitty situation, but in general, the 10th amendment/ the states deciding on issues not covered in the constitution, is a good thing. yes, its not always going to be perfect, but if we have to choose one way or another Id rather leave issues like this up to the states and deal with those repercussions vs dealing with the repercussions of leaving it up to the federal government.

scandy101What are people so scared of? I'm not a fan of Trump either but im at least open minded about it, I hope he does a good job, and from his past experience I think he's more than capable of doing a good job.

Seriously, can someone please give me some things people are scared of him doing and why?

so far i've just heard liberal college kids freaking out making ridiculous claims about all the racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. things he's going to do etc. etc.

apart from the guy having no filter, i have no reason to think he's going to bring racism and sexism into his policies. Is a no filter, offensive person like him just that foreign to college kids that they take the random BS coming out of his mouth seriously? I know a lot of people like that who arent afraid to offend but are nowhere near racist or sexist like the ultra liberal would like to label them.

okay.

The world will be a lot less safe and stable and the EU will definitely have to be a lot more independent as of this.

Russia has had a habit of invading / going to war on other european contries?

They did it in Ukraine and i think the baltic states are at risk, if NATO is weakened. Which it will be.

It's also possible we'll see a much more 'offensive' China in the south chinese sea, as the US wont be such a big threat as it used to be

And if he's building a customs wall against china, it'll have economical repercussions on a global scale. This will reduce international trade and harm exports of at least (speaking for myself here) norwegian goods and shipping. rammet av handelsstriden mellom USA og Kina.

This is also a huge let down for our progression regarding feminism and gender equality.

Brexit and the election of Trump is an uproar from the lower educated citizens.

and that's exactly what you Trump supporters are.

KYS


excuse my typos i angrily typed this on my phone while walking

scandy101I'm saying the government has no place in picking and choosing who you are allowed to deny service to. A racist should have the same rights as a homosexual, its not up the government to decide who's beliefs, lifestyle, sexual orientation, etc. is more deserving of privileges over another.. if you're allowed to deny it to anyone, you should be allowed to deny it to everyone. I know its not "feel good" but thats equality. I dont understand how people can say their so pro equality but then dont want to deal with any of the inconveniences.

and yes I agree thats a shitty situation, but in general, the 10th amendment/ the states deciding on issues not covered in the constitution, is a good thing. yes, its not always going to be perfect, but if we have to choose one way or another Id rather leave issues like this up to the states and deal with those repercussions vs dealing with the repercussions of leaving it up to the federal government.

Ever heard of Protected Classes? I am guessing no. You cannot compare a racist to a Protected Class. Entirely different. If you don't agree with Protected Classes you don't agree with any racial, color, religious, national origin, age, sex, veteran, disability, or genetic-based law. So, that removes the Civil Rights Act, Equal Pay Act, Age Discrimination in Employment Act, etc.

Nice. Let's do that too then. If you want equality, lets get rid of all protected classes!

American patriots.... UNITE!

the establishment forgot about rural America